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123 Comments
- gab00n, on 10/12/2007, -23/+163Because if we just stood there quietly we would like like a bunch ***** idiots.
- nymphetamine, on 10/12/2007, -2/+38Something fun to do is to count the number of um's or er's or ah's when the president is giving a speech or somethin. Makes listening to him so much fun.
- tomee, on 10/12/2007, -9/+34I think it's there so that other people know you stilll intend to say something. If you say nothing while you gather your thoughts, someone will interrupt you. That's why when holding a speech it is fine if you don't say "um" all the time, because nobody can interrupt you.
- yukevster, on 10/12/2007, -1/+23I teach 'fillers' like 'um', 'er, etc. in my English conversation classes in Japan. They're an important part of the language.
BTW Japanese fillers include; 'eto', 'ano' etc. - shinynew, on 10/12/2007, -2/+24"it is better to keep your mouth shut and be thought of as an idiot then open it and prove them right."
- kremvax, on 10/12/2007, -1/+23Because the Press Secretary never makes us practice with the teleprompter.
- stuffhappens, on 10/12/2007, -2/+21Funny - a couple of years ago a scientific study I read said pretty much the same as the article that the "ums" and "erms" are the brain's way of inserting a 'thinking pause' and that it is 'natural'. It only becomes an issue when it's used every third, or so, word where it distract's the listener so that they are not concentrating on the real message.
PS: I take it that despite Digg's statement to the contrary, this site is no longer 'technology news' but 'anything that takes my fancy' news, so I will go forward in that spirit and no longer bitch about the 'off-topic' drivel. - navster15, on 10/12/2007, -3/+21Personally, it grinds me whenever someone says an 'um' or 'er' when they are delivering a speech. I find that pausing can have a very positive effect, as it allows the audience to gather what you said and let it sink in. It also shows confidence. If you can remain quiet for a few seconds in front of an audience of a few hundred people, it really demonstrates your calmness and lack of stage fright.
- yukevster, on 10/12/2007, -1/+17Note: Japanese fillers 'eto' and 'ano' have no meaning, as in English.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+15So what do native sign language users do?
- skytimelapse, on 10/12/2007, -0/+14If I could like, cut out the word "like" from all my conversations I would sound way smarter.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -3/+16Same here Sanders. I speak in front of large groups for a living and I'm a horrible public speaker. I think it sounds better to go "um" as you think of what to say than stopping to shuffle and hunt through your notes... That's when the crowd thinks you are unprepared for them and they have less reason to pay attention to you.
- fivefootstep, on 10/12/2007, -2/+14I think they do it to drive me OUT OF MY MIND. As a transcriber for a new Nuance speech recognition system implementation for Countrywide Home Loans, I have to listen to thousands of waveforms of customer speech and transcribe every central and high nasal vowel approximant (um, uh, euh, euhn, er, ah, eh...) that I hear with "@hes@". Now I notice it when people do it, and I yell at them.
...totally not angsty here. Nope.
[breath_noise] @hes@ i'm calling @hes@ [fragment] @hes@ calling about @hes@ a loan [dtmf]
But yeah, this article is obviously correct. No mystery here, but relevant to my life so I thought I'd comment. =) - yukevster, on 10/12/2007, -1/+12OK smarty pants, show me them in a Japanese dictionary.
I studied Japanese for five years and use it everyday of my life, trust me, 'eto' and 'ano' have NO meaning - they are FILLERS! - Chozabu, on 10/12/2007, -0/+11id say Digg is first and foremost "User driven"(articles)
with a massive bias towards tech
if you want to make a site that swaps these values, go ahead, a while back there was even a stor on an open source clone of digg or something - jadez03, on 10/12/2007, -1/+11In Spanish you can say "y" or "me" or "que" or "te" or a few others. They all have wierd meanings if translated literally, but used in context it sounds normal.
- drgordonfreeman, on 10/12/2007, -0/+9Just FYI, this probably annoys or offends everyone in the vicinity.
- sert, on 10/12/2007, -6/+15I took a public speaking class a few years ago and they told us that saying those filler words is bad. They even had someone count the ums when you went up to give a speech.
- whalesalad, on 10/12/2007, -2/+10All the Armenians here in Glendale say 'thing' when they don't know what to say instead of um... and uhh....
It's a cultural thing. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -6/+13Yea, we were told the same thing in my class. The professor said "Its better to not say anything than to say "um""
I have to disagree though... i feel more like an idiot when i stare off into space gathering my thoughts than when I say "uh". I mean, I feel like an idiot when I say "uh" but its a lesser type of idiot. Ive given speeches to some of the top fortune500 companies and havent had any complaints yet, so I think im doing pretty well with my "um"s. - jayarbee, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6"But sometimes a speaker doesn’t want to give up their turn and instead wants a little extra time to think about what they’re going to say next. They use a “filler” to signal this. When a listener hears the “filler”, they continue listening rather than start talking. “Um”, “er”, and “ah” are examples of phonemes. In linguistics, phonemes are the smallest meaningless speech sounds humans make."
In one breath they tell us what the sounds mean, and in the next they say they are meaningless. All sounds are meaningless until you understand them . . . take "Duh!", for instance. - yukevster, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7Yes, you're right about 'ano'.
We also use, 'annnd' or ' sooooo' as fillers. - booc0mtaco, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6If you want to sound like you know what is going on, watch a newscastor (a good one).
If, instead, you want to sound like an idiot, check out this poor fool...
http://www.crapshack.com/ohioweatherman.htm
Put this guy on suicide watch. It is hard to screw up this bad without practice. - ByteGuerilla, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6When I used to learn French all those years ago and aural examples were given (of some random guy or gal saying something about going shopping, or whatever), there was always this weird, deep, low "bouhhhhh" noise which could go on for about ten seconds sometimes. Our teacher told us it was just a filler like our 'uhm' and 'ah', and we still found it weird.
- rcomegys, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6The point of the article is why we choose these sounds. Japanese seems to contradict the fact that in English we choose 3 really neutral vowel sounds, while japanese say "eeto" ('to' seems really out of place), and "ano". So it seems as if the vowel thing isn't truly universal. Which is part of the authors point when he brings up the chinese example.
By the way, eto isn't roughly translated to anything other than "uhh" or "err". It doesn't contain any morphemes. And uun and ja do have specific meanings, so they aren't hedge words. - Sukino, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6You shouldn't speak like that to yourself.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5Haha. That reminds me of the article about how people who do sign language dream in sign language.
I bet they move their hands in a repetitive motion like snapping their fingers or something. - splintax, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5You misunderstood. "Er" has no meaning in English - like "eto" in Japanese. "Lemme think" DOES have a meaning, "let me think", but it's also used as a filler.
Some of the fillers have literal meanings, but translating them as such usually sounds strange. (eg. I think Japanese "ano" means "that" - kono, sono, ano, but you wouldn't translate it as such if it was used in the same context as "eto").
edit: yukevster, I think you'll find them in a dictionary even though they have no "literal meaning". And am I incorrect about "ano"? - MikeWeller, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5Yep, listening to chinese people is funny as hell - niggah this and niggah that. I was on the bus to uni once and there was this big black lady sat next to a couple of chinese guys. They were saying niggah all the time and laughing to one another... the black women had one evil look on her face. And no, I didn't just make that up.
- samdu, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Dude! That would, like, rule!
- kjmatthews7, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4The most common fillers I have heard in Spanish are "este" (this) and "o sea..." (that is...). "Pues" (as someone below mentioned, and has many possible meanings) is pretty common as well. I have never really heard the ones you mention used as fillers - where are you from?
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Don't forget "entonces..." (then), "a" (to), "o" (or), and "e" (no meaning).
- mistermoose, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4In Canada we say "eh"...
- Harlequn, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3I'd like to read a shrink's analysis of why some people don't just say "no" anymore. Now people have to say it like "no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no , na na na, no no no no no ". Like - isn't one 'NO" enough? Even Alex does that on the digg podcasts sometimes. Same with "yes". Now it has to be "yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes " And only americans do this. People from Mexico do it to. Instead of just saying "SI" , now they have to say "Si si si si si si si si si si si si ". and I say right back to them "no no no no no no no no no no no no". Brits don't do this (YET)
- ContactRose, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3"Everything we humans say is either meaningless or meaningful. A lot of people never learn the difference."
Most of what people say and think is meaningful is actually meaningless. I think I agree. - warbird, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4Here in Japan, they teach us to actually use fillers when holding a speach It makes the language flow more naturally, and doesn't sound like it has been rehearsed to death and you are just repeating what you've memorized.
BTW, the most used Japanese fillers are "eto" and "ano" - stuffhappens, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5@Otherland:
I too have done my fair share of public speaking at technology exhibitions, business seminars and 'breakfast briefings' etc. You can certainly run a slick presentation without the "ums" etc., but the 'studied silences' tend to make the audience less interactive because they hang on the 'deliberate' silences as if they are part of your grand plan and they wait to see what's going to happen next with much more concentration (almost too much!).
I find that if I need to pause for thought or to collate my next sentence, a firm and positive 'now' works well ie: "...and so we see that customer retention is increased....now..considering the improvement in service levels, let's see what happens if...." - Harlequn, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Brits do this all the time. listen to a brit talk and you'll hear it. I think it has become part of their language. LIke its a status thing for them to be talking along and then go "ummmmm". They must think it sounds intellectual, but it's really annoying.
- robjw, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3"Although we may not consciously realise it, in a two-person conversation, people speak by taking turns"
No ***** sherlock - brandizzle, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4My theatre teacher told me that those were filler words, spent a day explaining them, and then after that day every time we said "um" "er" "uh" "like" or "anyways" "...ya know?" & a few others he would keep a tally in his notebook and take a point off our grade.
After three years I can easily say that I no longer say any of those words when I'm speaking publicly. - rcomegys, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4Man, nothing brings out the frustrated students of Japanese like a linguistics story. One thing I hate about studying Japanese is the know-it-all student who HAS to be right and uses words like smarty pants (even though I dugg you up cuz you had a point). Those kinds of students are the worst part of Japanese classes. But, I guess you have them no matter what your major is.
- rcomegys, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3I only took a few semesters of ASL, but it seems the normal hand gestures we hearing individuals associate with hedging (big spinning movements, twiddling of fingers) are also used in sign. Plus, as with everything else about sign language, a HUGE part of what you're saying is conveyed in your face. I see no reason why hedging should be different. Good point, though.
- ThankTheCheese, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3you appear to have submitted this in the wrong category: it should be in the "no *****" section :p
j/k j/k - fabiopsousa, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2"ano" in Portuguese = "year" in English
BTW in Portuguese.. we most common use... "errrrr " or "hmmm" to express those pause-thinking's - menneke, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2I'm living in Greece now for a bit over 3 years and I'm slowly picking up the language. Guess what? The Greeks don't have a need for these "fillers". I've never heard them use it. I'm not quite sure yet why that is so, but I do notice that they seem to have more than average control over their train of thoughts and can transfer that to speech in real time. As a matter of fact, in speaking they seem to have a hard time keeping up with their thoughts, so most of them speak incredibly fast. And amazingly fluently.
- swaxhog, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2I can't stand "it's like" It's like, um... annoying. You know what I mean?
- Jams, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3New scientist ran somthing on this a few years back, but nice to see it on digg though for those that havn't read.
- TheWalkingDude, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3I hate the add on "you know what I mean", "you know", and "I mean". This has infected society. Start noticing it and it will drive you crazy. It has no meaning; you can remove it from most statements, and it will make the statement stronger. If you want a prime example, watch a professional sports athlete give an interview - "Ah, you know, it's gonna go to the team that wants it more, you know. I mean, we just gotta stay focused, you know what I mean."
http://interview.monster.com/articles/youthspeech/
http://sbinfocanada.about.com/od/speakforsuccesscourse/a/speechlesson2.htm - schildkroeter, on 10/12/2007, -3/+5Funny, I don't even notice when I say umm, it's just flowing out naturally without me even noticing.
I only get this when I am nervous (in front of a big audience) - when I hold a speech to my friend the "umms" are minimal... - strictlybogart, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2yeah.. in public speaking it's bad.. cause it's a one sided conversation. but when you talk face to face in a conversation, the article makes sense.
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