What is Digg?169 Comments
- EtherGnat, on 10/12/2007, -15/+104Who has time to study when you're doing the cooking and cleaning? (I'm KIDDING! Man I hope my teacher/wife doesn't see this.)
- bsdfree, on 10/12/2007, -2/+77My question is whether anything will really make a difference. After all, isn't it obvious that men and women are physically different? Well are they psychologically different? Most psychologists would say so, and even common observation would agree. Are they mentally different? I don't know the answer for sure, but it seems likely that they would have different priorities, and many studies agree.
I remember one study of the risk-taking behaviors of men and women. Men were shown to be bigger risk takers - they often chose the path that would give the biggest reward - but also have the greatest potential for failure. Women, on the other hand would usually choose the middle road - the cautious, conservative route. This makes sense, because we often see men in the most successful places, and also the least successful ones. This can readily explain something that feminists have been crying about for close to 30 years - the lack of women in upper management. What they fail to consider is the fact that men typically take more risks than women, and so for every male CEO, there may be 2 or 3 that risked their job for the position but ended up forced to leave the company. Women, the study suggests, would be more content in their original place and so wouldn't go out of the way to try to snatch the position.
I remember seeing an issue of Time a while back where the cover story was how the brains of men and women (and by extension boys and girls - the two sexes are certainly different even from the womb) were very different. Men showed greater excitement and stimulation when exposed to some things, whereas women showed more when exposed to others. This also makes sense, because I'm sure if you showed gave a little boy a baby doll, in any culture, just naturally and genetically, he would care less for it than a little girl. It's a lot about what's hardwired into our brains before we are even born - the maternal, conservative, and caring instincts that we associate with mothers, and the exploratory, risk-taking, and brash traits that we often associate with men.
So this brings me to my main point. Men and women, boys and girls are different. It's a fact of life and it's not something to get too riled up about. Denying it is just as silly as protesting and denying the physical differences between the two genders. So stop trying to change society or create special programs for girls or boys to try to push them into an area they don't find interesting. It is not at all abandoning half of the population as the women in the article said. Let them pursue areas that they themselves find interesting - if it means baking cookies, writing poetry, caring for kids, or rocket science, so be it. It's not like they have significant discrimination against them these days, although many feminists would like you to believe that. If it just so happens that we as humans have evolved so that men like science and math more, then so be it.
You don't have to take my word on these studies. A quick google will reveal a multitude of studies about men and women, and the fact that girls not only have more opportunities than boys at school, they are, as far as performance is concerned, moving far past them. Even so, colleges tend to favor girls into Math/Science to boys. Even pop culture has made men into the fat, dumb, and headstrong characters, while women have been consistently portrayed as sharp, witty, and just in general, better. Can anyone name a modern TV show where the woman is portrayed as poor and helpless while the man is powerful? I thought not. - sarusa, on 10/12/2007, -4/+43In middle/high school girls become hyper-aware of just what's Cool and Not Cool, and math and science are just Not Cool in the school context.
- p9s50W5k4GUD2c6, on 10/12/2007, -3/+39Actually - this is more about what interests girls than what doesn't. Most are ABSORBED by the world of ~relationships~ for which they are strongly rewarded by their peers.
There is not a lot of adolescent payoff/positive reinforcement for scaling back their focus on relationships in the pursuit of scientific knowledge.
I do agree with the solution proposed by the article: Women need to make this career look cool for girls.
I, for one, think that will happen. And humanity will be stronger for it. - TheWalkingDude, on 10/12/2007, -1/+23And yet people are quick to boast that females are smarter than males. Just recently a study came out showing women outperforming men in academics (this same study seems to resurface every year or so), yet along side of this, and receiving less attention, were studies saying this was a result of female teachers favoring female students - sexism against males.
http://www.yaledailynews.com/article.asp?AID=32367
http://teacher.scholastic.com/products/Instructor/Mar04_gendergap.htm
http://washingtonparent.com/articles/0604/boys.html
Speaking of pre-established sex roles, husbands are often portrayed on television as being dumb compared to the wife - look at the Simpsons, Family Guy, Everybody Loves Raymond, Home Improvement, and on and on.
Look at the commercials: Heinz Ketchup shows a man trying to get ketchup out of the bottom of a bottle, his wife hands him a squeeze bottle, he then used the squeeze bottle to hit the bottom of the glass bottle. There was a computer commercial a while back that used to say, "it's so simple, even dad can use it".
I know sexism against females is more predominant, but don't be so blind as to miss it when it goes the other way, same with racism. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -2/+24
Hopefully, the introduction of Math Teacher Barbie will turn this statistic around.
Oh wait... - aplusplus, on 10/12/2007, -2/+23Well, in 4th grade most of the science I learned was about dinosaurs.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -3/+21Girls are only slightly behind in math and science, and the gap is closing. In many ways, girls kick the living crap out of boys these days. Just a couple quick google links to prove the point.
http://www.uaf.edu/northern/schools/myth.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/892803.stm
"But the idea that the "schools shortchange girls" is wrong and dangerously wrong. It is girls who get higher grades in school, who do better than boys on standardized tests of reading and writing, and who get higher class rank and more school honors. It is young women who enter and graduate from college far more frequently than young men. It is women who have made dramatic progress in obtaining professional, business, and doctoral degrees." - wthulhu, on 08/29/2009, -3/+21Not quite as interesting as they are without them, IMO.
- mastercheif, on 10/12/2007, -20/+37Maybe because they are the only two subjects that require actual knowledge and common sense!!!
- gaberowe, on 10/12/2007, -1/+17Its so true. What's also interesting is when you key in on things that all kids know are important--such as being respected and feeling like they can impress the teacher without looking like a suck up, they will do just about anything. I can remember going to some sort of like art enrichment type camp thing, and I was a total math/science nerd, but when I was there I realized what were the important things to do to impress people so I started trying to do artistic things and acting type things. I felt uncomfortable, but I also "fit in". So in my opinion, the teachers can do a lot if they emphasize things by saying, "well with Johnnie's excellent understanding of fractions, he'll be trading stocks on wall street one day". That kinda stuff sticks in kids minds and makes them much more interested in the subject. School sports focus should be balanced by including academic events as well. I know people who have said "being in symphony" was cool at their school. Its all context. Create the right context to get kids to realize that math/science is cool, you will get more girls interested.
- daeken, on 10/12/2007, -2/+17I should let your parents handle this one, but I'll give you a hint: They're more interesting without clothes.
- Phyltre, on 10/12/2007, -3/+18Wait. It's not a difference in aptitude, so it has to be the teachers' fault? Way to consider all the variables in the situation there, Prof. Fingerpointer.
- shimp4eva, on 10/12/2007, -1/+15Well if a girl is good at math and science, then automatically she is a witch.
- theblackgecko, on 10/12/2007, -3/+17You didn't go to school in Pennsylvania or Kansas, did you?
- trogdor282, on 10/12/2007, -0/+13I remember the writer/comedian Dave Barry was talking about how, to make sure he wasn't biasing his little girl, he bought her a set of toy monster trucks. First thing she did was, "this is the mommy truck and this is the daddy truck" and played house with them.
Perhaps this adds nothing to the debate, I just found it amusing :) - soogy, on 10/12/2007, -1/+14You married your teacher?
- LCmidas, on 10/12/2007, -0/+13As a high school girl (God, I hate having to prefix my comments with phrases that here on digg; I need a username like suprchica999), I did well in math/science, but my performance in reading/English and other verbal skills swamped my math/science scores.
For me, why would I bother going through all the trouble of being one of a minority of girls in math/science majors when my abilities are significantly stronger in other areas?
Intelligent girls, in my experience, tend to be more well-rounded academically. And so they have their choice of a number of majors. It's no wonder that they lean towards careers that they feel are more welcoming to women. - pseudojd, on 10/12/2007, -3/+15I'm convinced parents are partially to blame. parents unconsciously prepare their kids for preconceived roles.
- Splitt3rxx, on 10/12/2007, -7/+19well, if girls don't like math and science, let guys have thsoe jobs. did anyone ever think it is just normal that men and women have different interests. It isn't because of sexist teachers or any of that BS.
- loup, on 10/12/2007, -0/+11What I find interesting is that my fiance insists that she is not good at math, science, or logic problems, if you set any of those things in front of her she glances at it for a second and says she can't figure it out, but if you force her to figure it out on her own, she is actually quite capable of doing so fairly quickly. She's just got it in her head that she can't solve those types of problems and creates a mental block for herself.
- wthulhu, on 08/29/2009, -1/+12That's the worst argument I've ever heard, if anything that would have the opposite effect.
- nailbunny, on 10/12/2007, -6/+16i'd be careful with generalizations like that.
think of the fatties.
/surfs the wave of downvotes - darthmdh, on 10/12/2007, -1/+11Only if she weighs the same as a duck :)
[ed - given the size of some women these days this could be true!] - Mac2492, on 10/12/2007, -2/+10Somebody needs Math Teacher Barbie.
- nailbunny, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8the most famous anythings are guys.
- noeljohnhoward, on 10/12/2007, -4/+12they need to learn proportions
like, how much mashed potatoes to make in proportion to how much steak there is. - kolanos, on 10/12/2007, -2/+10Since when are girls supposed to keep up with things that boys are good at, and vice versa?
I love how we're all concerned about girls when they dwarf boys these days in college enrollment. I guess looking out for boys, with the exception of drugging them with Ritalin, just isn't politically correct in feminist America -- and there's little hope of studies being done on the subject in the female dominated colleges and universities. - vonskippy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7Like most "profiling", there's more then an ounce of truth to them.
It's been known for a long time that: Males are competitive, and Females are cooperative. The brains of the two sexes are hardwired that way in order to insure the continuation of the species.
Science and Math require that the person (all by themselves) "get it".
Males are hardwired to figure things out by themselves - so they can learn the core concepts of math and science and apply them to more complex concepts.
Females are used to co-op'ing (otherwise if a female died her offspring would die, with cooperation, the other females would raise the orphan), and you can't just learn "your share" of a math concept. If they aren't encouraged to actually learn the basics (not just echo them back like a parrot which is what most public schools want), soon they fall behind, and it becomes difficult (if not impossible) for them to learn more complex concepts.
In no way am I saying females are not as smart as males, I'm just saying they have a vastly different way of doing things and that method is a poor way of learning math and science (at least via what most public schools attempt to pass off as "teaching" these days). - Mac2492, on 10/12/2007, -2/+9This sort of makes us hard studying guys wish we were girls... just to prove these people wrong. Unfortunately, we're not, and many of the girls I know cheat in math and science. (It's a pity, I know.)
- loup, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7pfft, I'm a guy and I can cook just fine
- scruffmaster, on 10/12/2007, -9/+15They should promote science and math among girls. Its the lack of girls in tech univs (like mine) that make perfectly okay people like me into raving psycho nerds.
- nailbunny, on 10/12/2007, -3/+9i can personally attest to the dearth of female engineering majors. the chasm between the genders is slightly more apparent than the difference between 66% and 68% in fourth grade. For every woman in my school's computer science program, there are at least ten men, and this is a totally coed uni.
- Jugalator, on 10/12/2007, -2/+8Emile, the first post was a short joke many will see and read, and the other post was so long that many won't bother reading it, much less rate it. Maybe a bit sad, but true, but at least I doubt it's because of evil sexists populating Digg. :-p I believe people without humor are more plentiful.
- sogracefully, on 10/12/2007, -3/+9i disagree. girls are socially conditioned to go toward those things, and to abandon "boy subjects" like math and science. it's not that girls are less interested in the sciences, but like you mentioned, they are socially rewarded for not being academically/intellectually aggressive (or aggressive in any manner, really, but that's another discussion entirely). adolescence brings about the intense need for acceptance by peers, and that's why studies show girls having an equal "interest" in science in the 4th grade (just on the precipice of puberty, mind you) and then a decline directly afterward. i agree that making adult women in the field of science much more visible could do a lot to encourage girls to pursue it themselves, if it's what they want. it's all part of social convention, though, and that's not going to change overnight (it certainly hasn't experienced any earth-shattering change over the last decade, or the last 50 years, or really even the last century--the only changes happened in law and public policy, not in socialization or popular ideas of gender roles). the problem is in the socialization and enforcement of gender roles, not teachers or tests or interests or whatever.
- TenebrousX, on 10/12/2007, -15/+21They don't understand the base 10 system, just the 60 minutes in an hour!
- born, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7What that's indicating is that up until 4th grade, girl's interest has not yet waned in science/math, and after that point then their focus leads elsewhere.
- WaterDragon, on 10/12/2007, -2/+8"There are many studies that point out there are no differences in math aptitude between the genders."
And there are many studies that say those studies are wrong, or were not truly scientific and unbiased studies. Ignorance reigns in all such studies with no true understanding about gender...regardless of which conclusion they support.
- WaterDragon, on 10/12/2007, -3/+9I, for one, welcome our new unscientific female overlords!
- coding, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5GENDERISM. Not talking about saying haha you're a girl and you are not allowed to do this. It has more to do with society placing girls in one place and boys in another. This is more or less not on purpose but those little things that barely seep out as comments or facial guestures of disapproval towards doing something. This comes from both genders. Every culture is different too which actually makes this whole thing provable. Take a culture that sees girls role in engineering as a good thing and you actually get different percentages. In my CS classes we had one white, like Minnesota white, girl who actually switched to math later. We actually had a lot of women though. Most of the women were indian, vietnamese or chinese. America whites have got some issues.
- gaberowe, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7Well at younger ages, boys are very competitive with everybody--and the competition I think often turns off girls. So in an area that is traditionally male dominated, young boys will sieze upon an interesting thing and often will put girls down that try to compete with them. I can remember being just one of those boys. As you get older, it goes the other way quickly--boys realize that girls interested in what they are interested in, whether its math, cars, nintendo, whatever, those girls become really popular quickly with boys--however, they often suffer in the girl world because alot of girls feel uncomfortable being buddy buddy with boys, so, they pick on the girl that hangs out with boys all the time. I'd say that starts in full force around 7th grade.
- LavaHot, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6Well, My guess would be that due to the distractions that come from the early puberty that girls get when compared to boys. That's not a sexist remark, that's just my semi-educated guess. Ha, semi.
- Wiggles2, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5The best/most famous cooks are guys, you know
- kolanos, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6There are no innate differeces between the way boys and girls develop and learn?
Wow, you are truly misinformed. There are countless studies to suggest that boys and girls brains develop very differently from childhood, well into adulthood. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -6/+10yea but unfortunately they're just as talkative
PS - fatties are just as interesting; if you position a surf board on just the right spot on the belly you can slap the fat and ride the wave - voodoom, on 10/12/2007, -7/+1168% vs 66% is not a big enough difference to overcome margin of error
comon cnn you should know to use a better statistic than this - wthulhu, on 08/29/2009, -11/+15There are many reasons why, and none of them are shocking or news.
THIS JUST IN: Men and Women Are Different!
Male brains developed with a better understanding of physics, geometry, mathematics, and their bodies developed to be stronger physically long before modern times due to our need to hunt (and scavenge). Consequently our eyes are less adept at discerning colors, but better at detecting movement, while females excel at finding patterns and spotting small details. Male minds are naturally inclined towards basic logic, while female minds are unparalleled in linguistics and instruction. - nailbunny, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5bitter much?
- SmeRndmGy, on 10/12/2007, -4/+8Guys come to the false realization that they need to know math and science to get a good job, and the even more false realization that they need a good job to get laid. Sex is a very strong motivation. Girls realize that by hinting to guys that they might "give them" sex, they can get basically anything they want. Money, food, cars, houses, hardly anything is out of reach. This does not require any knowledge of math or science. Obviously not all guys are only stupidly running around trying to get laid by doing all the wrong things. Obviously not all girls are trading sex for financial and social security. Of course these are just generalizations, but as generalizations, they provide a general explanation for these trends. I wouldn't be surprised if this trend started reversing though. The guys are still running around trying to get laid, and this distracts them from studying math and physics. But more girls are starting to realize that being sexy isnt the only way to succeed in life. Expect guys to start doing worse in these subjects and women to start doing better.
**Also, thank you very much for not spelling "lose" with an extra O in the title of this digg posting. I see that so many times and it amazes me how stupid people have become. Thank you for being at least slightly smarter than the average idiot. -
Show 51 - 100 of 172 discussions
© Digg Inc. 2009
— Content created and posted by Digg users is