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- mdelling, on 07/17/2009, -5/+40Oh yeah... The violent riots by mostly Muslim youth in France would obviously be less destructive if the government didn't try to protect the random buildings and vehicles they burn...
It depends entirely on the crowd, and why they are gathered. Sometimes people get together just to break, burn, and vandalize, sometimes they gather to meet peacefully and are misconstrued by the police. The police understand that crowds have the potential to be hotbeds, because if something gets started, it can spread through the whole crowd like wildfire. - UCIJames, on 07/18/2009, -3/+20Large crowds, for the most part, are usually going to be worse. It's not so much the mythical, bloodthirsty mob mentality so much as it is the aversion of blame - if there's a bunch of people, no one feels personally responsible for anything.
It's like the internet but in real life. - AlwaysTurning, on 07/18/2009, -1/+16My only input on this is that cops need to realize, just because some people in protests get unruly doesn't mean the rest are or will be unruly. Too often a group of idiots starts damaging property and that leads to mass arrests. Guilt by association for peaceful protesters. Also in some cities the restrictions on protest are ridiculous. 'You must be in this spot, for this amount of time, with this many people. You have permission to use a microphone for 30 minutes every so and so hours'... Yea that makes for a real effective protest. I respect the people that break those restrictions on their rights. If it weren't for people like that nothing would've happened. how much longer would it have taken MLK or womens lib if they stayed 100 yards away from traffic and only used their megaphones ever 2 or 3 hours Unfortunately as soon as peaceful protesters step outside the boundries they were given the police have their excuse to arrest them, pepper spray/pepper ball them. It's gotten disgusting
And I know most people here think the police are awesome. And I'm sure they're great people...but policing has turned into profiting...gotta meet the quotas - mandarin, on 07/17/2009, -0/+12The cop on the picture looks nuts
- EndAntiSemitism, on 07/18/2009, -3/+13This article reeks of pseudoscience being presented as some kind of factual evidence (look at the "psychological study" they cited in which they interviewed a grand total of...11 people). I have much more trust in the epidemiologist they cited who actually gave some legitimate scientific reasoning against this "wisdom of crowds" BS. Buried
Better:
http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-mob-mentality.htm - odigity, on 07/18/2009, -0/+10Usually, the first protester to throw a rock is an FBI plant. If you don't believe me, go talk to some activists from the 60s - they experienced these tactics first hand. It's also well documented. It just somehow seems to have faded from public consciousness, even though the tactics are still used to this day.
- mHtt, on 07/18/2009, -2/+11IMHO +exp the police introduce 2 important aspects into mobs which catalyzes them into violence, 1: weapons, and 2: Adrenaline.
- SpykerSpeed, on 07/18/2009, -2/+10Exactly. Police typically initiate the use of force in situations like this, and they wonder why the crowd reacts the way it does.
- marmotjmarmot, on 07/18/2009, -2/+9So what, I should stop bringing my pitchfork?
- Jeff901, on 07/18/2009, -2/+8crowd violence toward police is usually provoked by police using force against an otherwise non-violent crowd....it is generally called 'self defense'
- AlwaysTurning, on 07/18/2009, -0/+6I believe it. I've just given up saying that stuff on here because it makes people completely dismiss my opinion.
I dream of the day hahaha - headhot, on 07/18/2009, -1/+6I saw twice. Once during the riots at Penn State. There was a rowdy, but non-violent happy crowd. Some guys were playing soccer with an empty beer ball in the streets. The cops decided that was enough and tried to break up the crowd. There were 7 cops, and hundreds if not thousands of students.
The cops were completely ineffectual, and only accomplished pissing off the crowd. Thats when it got ugly.
The second time was leaving the Obama inauguration. There were literally millions funneled up 18th street at the end. There was some over exuberant celebration. Climbing on busses, bus stops, lamp posts, things of that sort. The DC cops sat back and watched. No one got hurt, nothing got damages, and a good time was had by all.
I suspect though, that if the cops did try to stop the over exuberant celebration, the crowd could have turned very quickly, and it would have been ugly. - budgeysmuggler, on 07/18/2009, -0/+4Crowds do not always act rationally or behave peacefully, how ever it is my personal experience at concerts and sporting events that it is usually the over reaction of the police that sparks crowd hostilities. Where private security is used ive noticed a more relaxed vibe. Security seem to treat the crowd as people rather than as the enemy.
- C4Aries, on 07/18/2009, -3/+7Somehow I am not convinced.
- Brak710101, on 07/18/2009, -2/+6Yep, totally depends on the crowd. When the Penguins won the Stanley Cup, 475,000 people packed into downtown Pittsburgh to see it.
That's a ton of people, and nothing happened. ...But you can have a mob of 30 people turn into a vandalizing monster. - marmotjmarmot, on 07/18/2009, -1/+5Sorry, but you can't pick and choose who has free speech. If no one showed up, and I mean no one, zero, zip, nadda, to counter protest on the same day, I think it would be a lot more effective than going and letting them start a fight with you.
- t0x2c, on 07/17/2009, -3/+7Hot bed of trouble which has to be contained? Look at this peaceful protest! http://www.sun-sentinel.com/media/photo/2009-04/45 ...
- kaosethema, on 07/18/2009, -0/+4I am here to protest, stop pushing me around.
that guy next to me is the hoodlum ruining my protest. arrest him!!
keep pushing me and i will push back!! simple. - Iceman21, on 07/18/2009, -0/+4The point is that crowds of people will collectively fend off any threatening behavior towards them, and police forces seem to think crowds=trouble, so they try and break them up or contain them, which is viewed as a threat and it all gets violent.
Its a much better solution to leave a crowd of people alone and not be threatening toward them. - yonoz, on 07/18/2009, -1/+4They do, but they trust the wisdom of the teargas(TM) more.
- o76923, on 07/18/2009, -0/+3My gut instincts and common sense trump science.
- dralezero, on 07/18/2009, -0/+3Wonder if any of this plays a part into the idea of a mob controlling itself.
The study may also help explain why some people choose to punish, rather than ignore, behavior that's bad for their group. Fowler says he sees examples of this behavior all the time in California.
Fowler says the explanation for altruistic behavior may be that our brains are wired to reward us for punishing freeloaders.
"That might be why we see individuals having an emotional and even sort of a brain response to punishing," he says. "They actually feel pleasure when they punish people for violating a social norm."
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?story ... - anonymousmedic, on 07/18/2009, -7/+10Yes, because large, empassioned mobs have never been known to riot, right? I mean, it's not like it only takes one spark to cause a massive wildfire.
- GamerXR72, on 07/18/2009, -0/+2lol que?
- Davisourus, on 07/18/2009, -2/+4I completely agree. Maybe its ok for large masses to gather in general (say daytime in a park or safe street corner), but I was in the Veishea riots of 2004... and let me tell you, a large mass of drunk people become unruly. Unless you want to foot the bill for damaged property and injury, the anonymity of a mass is dangerous and anarchistic.
- Myztry, on 07/18/2009, -0/+2When any force is out numbered 1,000's:1 then there's a good chance they don't have democracy on their side and their dictatorship is failing...
Mob rule may expose the animalistic side of humans but it is 'the will of the people (involved)' - kaosethema, on 07/18/2009, -1/+2WAH wah
- Sogui, on 07/18/2009, -2/+3Every time I hear about "large crowds" that AREN'T being policed it usually ends up with people dying in unmentionable ways (aka the ground is made out of people)
2 recent memories:
-Nightclub fires, people crushing and trampling each other just to get out
- Walmart Black Friday sale, crowd surges through the door... woman is trampled to death. - AlanLivingston, on 07/18/2009, -1/+2Indeed.
FTA: "An analysis of the 9/11 attacks on the World Trade Center, for example, performed by the US National Institute of Standards and Technology, showed that most people prevaricated for several minutes after the planes struck, making phone calls, filing papers or shutting down their computers before attempting to escape."
Does prevaricate have another meaning in Britain or does this guy just not know what the word means? - fury420, on 07/18/2009, -1/+2a grand total of 21 people actually, survivors of 11 crowd-mob related incidents
- PatrickX, on 07/18/2009, -0/+1You seriously think that most people on digg think the police are awesome? You must be new here...
- 4NDr01D, on 07/20/2009, -0/+1huge crowds of people leave sporting events usually completely docile
most peaceful protests are fine
until extremists or undercover cops posing as extremists incite violence
which leads to police violence
and the reason for the protest is drowned out in a survival struggle between riot squads and 20 something / kids - headhot, on 07/18/2009, -0/+1how about the 2 million at the inauguration?
- 4AntiStupid, on 07/18/2009, -1/+2Wisdom of crowds??? Look who we elect to run out government. The human tribal mentality makes it pretty easy to get people in crowds to act irrationally.
- arcangelgabriel, on 07/18/2009, -6/+6A person is smart, people are stupid. Large groups of people become stupid at the speed of light.
- Slackdragon, on 07/18/2009, -3/+3From my own experience with hurricane Katrina I can attest that "Southern Hospitality" evaporated when people were in the local Wal-Mart trying to snap up batteries, water, canned goods that were running low. Courtesy was virtually non-existent at fuel pumps in the area.
This article sounds more like personal opinion vaguely propped up by scattershot interviews posing as an in-depth "study".
SOME crowds are non-violent, sure. But I think when PERSONAL survival is down to the wire, ***** have their ***** rise to the fore in an unprecedented manner.
Crowds grouped together out of fear or anger? That's a primed keg of explosives, metaphorically speaking. I don't see how this guys hypothesis holds water.
I can see where a peaceful gathering or one that doesn't start off as hostile, or, say, where the people are victims of a sudden, natural event or even attack by an outside entity can bring people together, sure.
Sounds like he's trying to apply a blanket statement to all types of crowds, which is NOT a one-size-fits-all proposition. There are many reasons people are brought together in large groups and not all have the same powder-keg potential. - Metavised, on 07/18/2009, -1/+1What was wrong with it, beyond the sense it tickled your BS gland?
- ramiro, on 07/18/2009, -1/+1Thanks for the link and the common sense.
- sageerrant, on 07/18/2009, -2/+2Pitchfork? Why settle for that when could have... the torchfork!
It'll pitch and burn (pitch) all night long, so your mob never has to stop! - Metavised, on 07/18/2009, -1/+1Iranian protests were policed pretty hard.
- tomarocco, on 07/18/2009, -1/+1The pigs gotta be stopped. Shoot back.
- marmotjmarmot, on 07/18/2009, -1/+1should have done it BILLY MAYS style.
- Scald42, on 07/18/2009, -2/+2Yeah, I mean the Canada day riots in Edmonton were over... nothing. We also rioted during a stanley cup game... so rioting over a sports team losing...
YEAHHHH those crowds are wise - JackSombra, on 07/30/2009, -0/+0"huge crowds of people leave sporting events usually completely docile "
*cough* European football/soccer *cough* - sageerrant, on 07/23/2009, -1/+1I've been pitching this thing on digg for quite some time now. It just didn't feel appropriate to hit the Billy Mays key simply because he's passed away.
- odigity, on 07/18/2009, -5/+5The cops pretend they do what they do to "protect the people", but it's funny how whoever they're ***** with at the moment is, for their purpose, not one of "the people".
Collectivist terms like "the people" and "the common good" are never defined precisely, they're just used as excuses to bully and plunder. P.T. Barnum was an amateur compared to the ruling classes. - LittleDas, on 07/18/2009, -2/+1Except mobs will do all sorts of things in the absence of police. Lynch mobs are a good example, though they're not seen in the US anymore.
- inactive, on 07/18/2009, -3/+2A few good insights (using the downfall of the Communist blocs for an example), but too simplistic.
- Metavised, on 07/18/2009, -2/+1How so?
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