What is Digg?449 Comments
- YevS, on 02/21/2008, -10/+185Read the article and it really comes across that while the children are learning capitalism the teachers are busy teaching socialism... Which is best? A bit of both is good for developement. I would say an outright ban is a bad idea, instead use this oppotinuty to teach them good business practice early on.
Interesting article non the less... - Edwaldo, on 02/21/2008, -4/+126No! All this talk of construction of public buildings and competition for LEGO resources is the best thing for a little kid, do you have any idea how such problems will teach that class? To me, the more problems, the better.
- Winoria, on 02/21/2008, -6/+116Well if you read to the bottom you realize that the legos are not permanently banned. They are returned to the "honored" position in the classroom after a range of activities addressing the social issues at play.
I was particularly interested in this article because in politics and policy, people tend to talk about children as passive, unthinking "blank slates" who will ultimately take up whatever thoughts/ideas/causes adults push on them. (Example: Don't let kids read Harry Potter, they'll become pagans. Don't make kids wear political t-shirts, they'll become democrats/republicans)
While this article does articulate the effect teachers have on introducing ideas in the classroom, you can also clearly see children engaging and working through their own social issues and ideas. Kids don't use or understand loaded words like "socialism" or "capitalism", but they do create their own social worlds and engage in complex behaviors that these theories deal with.
They are capable of learning and forming their own opinions about different systems of behavior, whether the adults in their lives agree or not. Just be careful and don't label their behavior as "socialist" or "capitalist" because that presses a lot of philosophical, historical, and contextual information on the behavior of kids who are just trying to play and get along. In another year, they might not even remember any of it. - shadowie, on 02/21/2008, -1/+93The desire to play with Lego rose exponentially with each paragraph of this story.
- drouk1556, on 02/21/2008, -12/+82"Into their coffee shops and houses, the children were building their assumptions about ownership and the social power it conveys — assumptions that mirrored those of a class-based, capitalist society — a society that we teachers believe to be unjust and oppressive."
I think this is where the teachers are completely incorrect. Ownership and social power aren't "assumptions" in a capitalist society, they're fundamentals. Inequities in private ownership arise naturally in a capitalist market, where limited resources are made to best satiate nearly-unlimited wants. By attempting to rework the concept of Legotown to allow for a more open, democratic method, they are doing the exact opposite by negating and limiting the work of the original builders, who held more equity originally.
Also, they're ***** Legos. Let the kids play. - rticul8, on 02/21/2008, -13/+74A serious flaw in their logic is that the assumed that their Lego trading activities were a zero-sum game. In reality, capitalism is not zero sum - IE, to gain wealth someone else must lose it - due to the fact that there are two parts to the equation - property (IE, capital - machinery, land, etc.) and labor. Anyone can labor on their own, creating valuable services or with small material inputs, valuable commodities which are then traded for another's wealth. Both gain - the creator and the buyer, and there is "more" wealth (is the form of things created and owned) to go around. They ignored the input of creativity and labor - assuming ONLY existing Legos were part of the equation. BUT if a person could paint a Lego green...thus creating more green Legos by putting their labor and such into it. Those creative enough to do so, would have lots of green Legos...until so many were green that now people wanted red and so they became more valuable. For more informative discussions on capital, wealth and how its NOT a zero sum game, I'd suggest reading Thomas Sowell - a well-known economist who has several books written for the layman on economics.
- grapesofbaath, on 02/21/2008, -40/+98Those teachers are way over-thinking kids playing with legos. Just let them be. You don't need to interfere unless it's to stop real bullying. You can't make children treat each other as complete equals. Children have their own hierarchies - always have, always will. They are going to have conflicts, resolve conflicts, interact, form allegiances, all the things that adults do. It's natural and healthy. These teachers having a long drawn out argument over socialism and capitalism, eqaulity and inequality, it's all just intellectual masturbation.
- vuke69, on 02/21/2008, -20/+76It was going great until the teachers decided to force socialism on the group.
*****, they are half way to setting up a home owners association. Houses must be no larger than X bumps, and consume no more than N blocks. WTF is that crap? Way to take something fun and creative and suck the life out of it.
How hard would it have been to just smack little Johnny upside the head, and tell him to let other kids play too? Not EVERYTHING needs to be a grand progressive social experiment. - scooterbaga, on 02/21/2008, -19/+73That article is amazing.
Where the hell does one meet thoughtful intelligent people like this? Brings squarely into focus the fact the the people I'm surrounded by, just aren't my taste. - sirpyro, on 02/21/2008, -20/+68I'm not digging this story because I agree with it, but because I DON'T. Teachers feading this "capitalism is bad!" stuff in school is something I've personally experience over the years (though I was the kid that stood up and explained to the teacher why he or she was wrong). Unfortunately, this type of viewpoint also hampers educating the student as well because the focus too much on the "slower" students and dumb the material down to there level to "provide an equal opportunity for everyone in the class to learn the same thing" that really just hurts the average and exceptional students. Capitalism does relies on the fact that we are all different with different natural abilities, upbringings, interest, and status leading us to be more or less productive and receive more or less resources based on how useful out skill are to the society as a whole. Trying to force equality on society just brings every one down.
Man I'm glad that engineering professors don't do this bull... - theradical, on 02/21/2008, -4/+43In Soviet Legoland, bricks construct YOU!
- visionik, on 02/21/2008, -28/+65What a bunch of socialist crap.
If someone is smarter, works harder, or works more hours than others - why in the world should they get the same rewards as a half-wit slacker?
The majority of teachers in the US are losers. Yes, you can find some great teachers out there but they are few and far between. This is fundamentally why our education system sucks. This article specifically is an embarrassing summary of why our country is losing its capitalist edge.
It does accurately reflect what I remember of school though - anti capitalist liberal wanker teachers using their *own* power and influence to try to force their agenda and whims onto students. Ultimately the teachers who wrote this are playing the same games - but the kids are the legos. - nreynolds, on 02/21/2008, -2/+38"Into their coffee shops and houses, the children were building their assumptions about ownership and the social power it conveys — assumptions that mirrored those of a class-based, capitalist society — a society that we teachers believe to be unjust and oppressive. As we watched the children build, we became increasingly concerned."
just wanted to put that out there.... kinda disturbing... - smacksaw, on 02/21/2008, -3/+37If they forced socialism on the group, they would have waited until the exceptional children toiled endlessly to make a fantastic Lego town, and then had the lazy kids confiscate it in a popular revolution and then jail the Lego kids until they could try them for crimes against the people and hang them on the Lego town they created.
- damagicsausage, on 02/21/2008, -4/+35This was a very interesting and gripping article. The kids learning about ownership and a class system was so compelling. I hope they accually post pictures of the town itself.
- tazx, on 02/21/2008, -7/+37The parents are paying almost $1000/month to get their kids into a specialized pre-school/afterschool center BECAUSE one of the teachers has a masters degree in child development and they DO explore very unconventional approaches to education. My impression from the article is that they are doing wonders for these kids, challenging them, making them think and examine their own ideas, and find new & interesting solutions to problems.
- Vorticity, on 02/21/2008, -3/+28Before I make my second comment, understand that I am very happy to see teachers showing such a deep interest in how their students learn and play.
The problem I see here, though, is that they seem to be pushing the children toward a communist system. Marxism is a great ideal assuming that everyone puts forth an equal and maximal amount of effort, but begins to break down as some within the system begin to realize that they don't have to work in order to survive.
I guess that my hope is that there are other teachers around the nation helping to teach the benefits of capitalism so that eventually this communist group of children can have a good long debate with the capitalist children. Both view points have pros and cons, but I don't think that promoting one and only one view is the best way to handle things as a teacher.
I still give major props to those teachers, though, for taking such an interested and interesting approach to teaching their children. - tehbored, on 02/21/2008, -6/+31Wow, this is pretty awesome. It really gives insight to how people feel about power and how it influences their thoughts and actions.
- tazx, on 02/21/2008, -3/+26Why are the majority of the nations at the top of the UN Human Development Index social-democratic countries with hybrid economies?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_ ... - tazx, on 02/21/2008, -6/+28These kids are privileged upper-middle-class white kids immersed in the most capitalist society in the Western world. They're going to grow up to be doctors, lawyers, scientists, and upper management. Isn't it a good thing for them to examine the precepts behind the system that gives them so much advantage in life, and consider whether they might support policies that help address inequalities?
- queeg, on 02/21/2008, -4/+26What the ***** kind of 8 year old talks about fair use of public land?
- digghurst, on 02/21/2008, -6/+27All the teachers did was impose their will on the kids. They took everything away when they saw the natural progression of the kids. This story is colored by the political and social views of the teachers. If they saw inequity ( in five to nine year olds mind you) they could have solved it but telling the kids to share. Instead in a ridiculously long winded way they " re-educated" the kids to fit with their outmoded anti capitalist, anti competitive outlook. What a bunch of twits.
- UrbanVoyeur, on 02/21/2008, -10/+31One the one hand, it's a great opportunity to teach and learn about collectivism, inequalities power, and social responsibility. I applaud the teachers in their thoughtful approach.
On the other hand, at 8 year old Lego was may favorite toy. Do adults have to over analyze everything? Why can't a toy be just a fun, child run experience? The kids may have learned, but I wonder it has cost them the innocence of an amazing, tactile play experience. It would seem to me that video games would be a whole lot less hassle to a kid after a drawn out experience like this.
I wonder what would have happened if the teachers introduced dramatically more Lego pieces, especially high value ones at the height of the building boom? - RiMac, on 02/21/2008, -1/+21"Didn't read."
- BGog, on 02/21/2008, -4/+24See, you assume that what they ended up teaching was better than what was being learned in the first place. The teachers saw that there was conflict (BTW conflict is how kids learn through play, they learn to work out their problems) and instead of stepping in and helping the kids work it out they took everything away and started a forced socialist commune.
They didn't teach the children how to work together in our society they taught them how to give up their dreams and conform. That will not help them live in the real world. In the real world, communism has failed.
BTW I would have a different opinion if these were 14 year olds as they could understand the differing values of the systems and decide for themselves. Let the 5-8 year old play so they can learn to function before you over analyze everything. - Radical5, on 02/21/2008, -0/+19Sooo.... Modern society can be compared to the basic human nature and intelligence of an 8 year old child?
Sounds about right. - vuke69, on 02/21/2008, -0/+19My 7 year old son insisted on watching primary results roll in from our state (Wisconsin).
You'd be surprised at the depth of thought young kids can exhibit on a given subject if given the opportunity. Granted, they are prone to gross leaps of logic, absurd conjecture, and and other flaws in argument building, mainly attributed to lack of life experience. But given some guidance, they can ponder some relatively complex subjects. - inactive, on 02/21/2008, -6/+24Lego is the plural of Lego.
- yndy, on 02/21/2008, -11/+29Seriously - what a piece of tripe.
"Into their coffee shops and houses, the children were building their assumptions about ownership and the social power it conveys — assumptions that mirrored those of a class-based, capitalist society — a society that we teachers believe to be unjust and oppressive. As we watched the children build, we became increasingly concerned."
...
"They were unable or unwilling to see that the rules of the game — which mirrored the rules of our capitalist meritocracy — were a setup for winning and losing. Playing by the rules led to a few folks winning big and most folks falling further and further behind. The game created a classic case of cognitive disequilibrium: Either the system is skewed and unfair, or the winners played unfairly. To resolve this by deciding that the system is unfair would call everything into question; young children are committed to rules and rule-making as a way to organize a community, and it is wildly unsettling to acknowledge that rules can have built-in inequities. So most of the children resolved their disequilibrium by clinging to the belief that the winners were ruthless — despite clear evidence of Liam and Kyla's compassionate generosity."
Socialism rah! Oh wait... we LIVE in a capitalist meritocracy!! Wait, did I use the word "MERITocracy"? As in, based on merit, not need? Horrors.
Thank heavens my child doesn't go to a school run by teachers incapable of instilling skills for *coping* with reality. They shouldn't have banned the Legos, they should've banned the attempt to inculcate someone else's children into a political/socio-economical belief system that isn't consistent with what we actually live in. - sanotaan, on 02/21/2008, -0/+18That was his point all along
- SuperMoses, on 02/21/2008, -1/+17***** Lego, they should teach Machiavelli in grade school.
- SEN5241, on 02/21/2008, -1/+16I think it's healthy to let kids experience what life is going to be like when they grow up. It's sad to say: the kids who were ready to throw up their hands in exasperation and give up because, "life isn't fair," will probably be the ones who fail to advance in life and spend their entire careers in the same useless rut of a job because they see no value in working hard to advance themselves. Hopefully they can learn from this experience and be prepared to at least fight for what is fair.
- AdonalFoyle, on 02/21/2008, -6/+21That has to be the worst user name I have seen in a while.
- LightPhoenix, on 02/21/2008, -8/+23While I'm not a fierce proponent of capitalism or socialism, the Lego trading game really illustrates one of the key reasons why I think capitalism by itself is a bad thing. Look at the comments the other kids made and the actions they took - many just gave up, most hated the people "in power." Now apply that line of thinking to socio-economic situations, especially in large cities, and it's evident that these differences are ingrained in us even as children. Hard-work and talent should be rewarded, and capitalism provides a method for that. However, by itself capitalism breeds dissention and apathy, and for society as a whole that is awful. Socialism alone is not the answer either (ie, some kids would just sit around in the game) - forced equality only works if people put in the same as they get out, otherwise you end up right back at that disparity, only it's the productive members resents the non-productive.
I think it's clear that there is no single theory that will dictate a maximally utopian ideal, but rather a hybrid of systems that will maximize societal happiness, productivity, and innovation. All this socialism vs. capitalism stuff is a load of *****, and the two systems need to work together. - chubbybubba, on 02/21/2008, -2/+16It always amazes me how some parents/teachers like to shield children from the realities of life. Where I grew up legos were the least of our concerns. Talk to anyone who had to do without food, shelter or safety and you'll understand where I'm coming from. I do think I'm better for it, and I am a helluva lot more grateful for what I do have. Some kids are born with a ton of lego and are never happy. The key is to earn the lego you have, be happy you have it and protect it so one day you can give it away to someone who needs it even more than you.
- thumperings, on 02/21/2008, -0/+13the meak shall inherit the legos.
- inactive, on 02/21/2008, -10/+23This just proves that man is a capitalistic animal. The teachers should realize that this kind of cooperation based learning is incredibly valuable to developing minds and should nurture it, not try to push their communist propaganda on little kids.
- Sketchcast, on 02/21/2008, -1/+14Obviously you didn't read the article in it's entirety.
- nighthawk8713, on 02/21/2008, -1/+13Is a man not entitled to his Legos?
No says the man in Washington, it is entitled to the poor.
No says the man in the Vatican, it belongs to God.
No says the man in Moscow, it belongs to everyone.
I rejected those answers. Instead, I chose something different. I chose the impossible. I chose Legoland. - jman583, on 02/21/2008, -0/+11Space flight?
- enchanterku, on 02/21/2008, -10/+21Yes... I almost stopped reading the article at that point. I really don't see the problem with a capitalist society. I'm not trying to start a huge discussion here about economic/political systems, but the fact that those educating the next generation are teaching them to avoid conflict and to not use the advantages/resources available to them bothers me on a very deep level.
- inactive, on 02/21/2008, -0/+11same
there are never enough though.... at my house at least. - archiesteel, on 02/21/2008, -5/+16"Nothing great was ever achieved by a socialist community"
This is patently false. - tymilu, on 02/21/2008, -4/+15Distancing yourself from the people you're surrounded by isn't going to bring you close to anyone, it'll just make you miserable. Try talking to those people, and you'll be surprised by what you might learn.
- pyro789x, on 02/21/2008, -1/+12You didn't read the whole article, did you? I can tell because I thought the same thing you are saying... before I finished actually reading the article. I think the teachers brought up some interesting perspectives and really made the kids think.
- Gabberwok, on 02/21/2008, -3/+14They're the devil's block! The interlocking pieces can give children impure thoughts.
- Gabberwok, on 02/21/2008, -1/+12Accidental double post, so here's something to make up for it: http://gertjan.kole.info/images/lego_escher_copy.j ...
- soupdawg30, on 02/21/2008, -0/+10I just stop feeding my cat so much when he gets fat.
- schizogony, on 02/21/2008, -2/+12False.
LEGO® is a corporation's name.
LEGO® bricks is the plural of LEGO® brick. Also, you always capitalize all four letters of LEGO®.
I feel like such a dick now. - 5urr3al5am, on 02/21/2008, -2/+12Seems more telling of the teachers than the kids
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