What is Digg?427 Comments
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -24/+170The first commenter always seems to get buried. I should do a study and make some graphs.
- neoform, on 10/12/2007, -14/+139I blame the purple people for the low IQs amongst racists.
- Nougat, on 10/12/2007, -22/+125I'm not sure why people are digging that down. The correlation between IQ of prison inmates and the disproportionate number of minorities in prison can probably be explained by the fact that minorities in the US tend to have lower incomes and fewer/lower quality educational opportunities available to them. And when you need to survive, you'll do things that you wouldn't otherwise do, including committing crimes.
It's quite the vicious circle.
That said, I'm not excusing the criminal actions of individuals, but I think the situation needs to be looked at from two points of view. On the individual basis - do the crime, do the time; you are responsible for your actions. On the societal level - society needs to carry at least some of the responsibility for the condition of its membership. These two scopes are in opposition to one another, but I think are both true at the same time, much like Newtonian and quantum physics can both be true even though they are completely different. - euarchonta, on 11/13/2007, -10/+99I have a hard time taking a study like this seriously when the authors make it utterly apparent that they're not being objective about the issue. They clearly have an agenda, and it clouds the credibility of any conclusions that they may draw.
- vertinox, on 10/12/2007, -10/+86Eh. On average yes, but I've known a few highly intelligent Neo-Nazi's/Eugenics supporters in person.
In truth, if you throw morality and ethics out of the equation eugenics was the most logical thing to do in order to better society as a whole. It kind of sucks for the individual who is getting the eugenics done to them though.
However, if you look at it historically, the WWII Germany NSDAP (Nazi's) has a lot of pure geniuses supporting them and among their ranks like Albert Speer, Dr. Todt, and Goebbels, but that didn't make them right. You can be intelligent and really evil at the same time. However, their followers tended to be of lower IQ and were generally just thuggs like Ernst Röhm and the brown shirts. People with lower IQs are generally more affected by propaganda and thus throw their lot in with political and religious extremism rather than those with higher IQs.
I would argue it isn't as much as genetics as it is culture and language and of course up brining. People who eat crap foods as a child generally can't develop a healthy body and mind which leads to low IQs. People whose language isn't supportive of certain ideas and education can't grasp certain concepts because their language can't express it (which is why English is the most used language in the world because of its flexibility and ability to be bastardized to express whatever idea... You know... like "I'm going to 'Google' this page" but I digress again).
And of course the culture of the child's upbringing. If education and advancement is looked down on by their peers then chances are the child will not try to educate themselves. As in... If the child was raised by racists that believed college was nothing but left wing propaganda professor dribble (or that education was the way of the white man is keeping them down and they would do better to listen to rap and sell drugs), chances are the child will feel the same way.
And the vicious cycle continues. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -7/+57Why is it that racism is automatically associated with whites hating other ethnic groups? There are proportionally just as many "minorities" with racist agendas, if not more. Whites tolerate racism because we are made to feel we're responsible for it. But as everyone' knows there's little tolerance for White Entertainment Television or slanderous comical skits stereotyping Hispanics. There's many skin colors at the racism intersection, not just whites who hate everyone. That all white people are racist is the most proliferated stereotype of all.
- sicc, on 10/12/2007, -11/+53In America, only white males can be racist. I guess you didn't get that memo.
All joking aside, everyone has a little racism in them. I'd even go as far to say a little racism is healthy for us. It makes you appreciate who and what you are. One of my best friends is black, a "real" black guy btw. We talk about this stuff a lot.
Once we saw a beautiful white girl walking thru the mall holding a black guys hand. I commented that it actually bothered me. He jokingly called me a Nazi and a KKK member, we laughed and whatever, but I remembered it. It wasn't 3 weeks later we saw an absolutely beautiful black girl, she was out to eat with a white guy and he made the same kind of comment as I had in the mall. I immediately called him a black panther and mini Malcolm X, reminding him of the day in the mall. We laughed and it was no big deal.
The point of my lame ass story is, we all have some issues with race. And honestly, I don't think there is anything wrong with small amounts of it. I think it's just natural. And yea, I didn't read this article but I thought it would be a good thread to share my little story.
/not a rasist
//loves other races
///but loves my race more
Kind of like rooting for your hometown team.
*waits for my digging down and people to call me a KKK member* - manova, on 10/12/2007, -5/+33The Bell Curve is not a good book to quote. It is based on shaky science at best. It was not peer reviewed. In fact, if you look at the article, none of the sources cited after 1950 are from scientific journals. Books are not the same thing. Anyone can write a book and say whatever they want. There are no checks like there are in scientific journals (even then, sometimes bad science still gets through).
"Studies going back over 50 years have repeatedly arrived at the same conclusion"
NO, studies from 50 years ago. We know so much more about cognitive testing and methodologies now than we did 50 years ago. Plus, the reference section is screwed up. The first reference is Montagu 1952 & 1988, but no 1988 paper is listed. Also, the Crane paper is the Journal of Black Psychology caught my eye, but it is not cited in the writing. I have to give this an Inaccurate. - cuoops, on 10/12/2007, -1/+27 I hate Illinios Nazis.
- Sithlrd, on 10/12/2007, -7/+33The whole "they're criminals because they're poor, and they're poor because they're criminals" is simply cowardice on the part of the welfare state and their big-government loving supporters. It reflects their own unwillingness to tell it like it is because it's not politically correct to say what the hell's going on. If YOU are one of these cowards, then go ahead and digg me down, because you're not going to like the rest of this either.
Hard work will get you out of the slums. I been there, did that, had help from no body. Teach your kids that FACT of life, give them faith in themselves. teaching them the mistaken, lazy, pathetic view that the government owes you a living because "they" took your land, or whitey enslaved your great great great great grandmother, or you're cripple, or you're a single pregnant woman, or you're an immigrant, or whatever the excuse these people are feeding their kids for not getting a job and an education.
Get over yourself, get over your sorry assed gangsta/drunk/whore/druggie peers, get a job. Build something. Contribute instead of leech for a change.
/rant - Misanthrope, on 10/12/2007, -2/+27Why digg him down? He makes a solid point. It doesn't mean that everyone is racist, just smart people aren't going to admit to that in some survey. If anything because they may not really LIKE that they're racist.
Dumb people tend to be more honest with themselves and others. - boomboxer, on 10/12/2007, -4/+28@DreKor
that is false. look up the Flynn Effect.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flynn_effect
IQ's can rise due to positive changes in environment - DreKor, on 10/12/2007, -25/+45@Nougat
Having a low income or fewer educational oportunities has absolutely nothing to do with IQ. You can cite correlations all you want, but that doesn't imply causation. IQ is a measure of general intelligence and cognitive ability, it is not an examination of academic learning or societal indoctrination. - chr15, on 10/12/2007, -10/+29What about the black racists? The whole article seems pretty one sided to me.
- je12u, on 10/12/2007, -2/+20Hhhmmmm, maybe it's the other way around...
low IQ = poor understanding of concepts = racism/low tolerance - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -10/+28Then explain Hitler. Racist supreme, and was quite brilliant (albeit absolutely ***** insane).
- offput, on 10/12/2007, -1/+19@vertinox
"In truth, if you throw morality and ethics out of the equation eugenics was the most logical thing to do in order to better society as a whole."
Actually, it is not the best way. Eugenics is designed to breed for very specific features but does not analyze the reasons for these features. An excellent example of the flawed logic of eugenics was an experiment where rats were interbred in two groups: rat who were good at mazes, rats who were bad at mazes. The original experiment labeled these intelligent and stupid. After a few generations of interbreeding (let's ignore the issues with inbreeding for now), the "intelligent" rats were considerably better at mazes than the "stupid" ones. Unfortunately, the real factor you were breeding for was not intelligence but emotional reaction. If you shove an emotionally stunted rat into a maze, it's not as scared as an emotionally healthy rat which lakes longer to adjust to the new situation and so appears stupid based on the metrics of intelligence in the experiment.
There is no holistic approach to eugenics; it is by definition a specializing process and therefore suffers the same flaws as the experiment described above. In a cursory glance, it might seem the best approach but in the long run it has little net effect on the well-being of the populace. - pintomp3, on 10/12/2007, -0/+17wait, i'm always hearing islamophobia is not racism, but anti-semitism is? unless other races can't be jews. it's should be the in the same category. regardless, it is bigotry whatever the technicality.
- rocktopotomus, on 10/12/2007, -1/+15@Drekor
"it is not an examination of academic learning or societal indoctrination."
have you ever even seen the WAIS-III?
yes parts are pure logic and problem solving, but other parts are PURELY testing you against social norms.
the Information, Comprehension, and Vocab sections are specifically aimed at testing a subject's adoption of social conventions.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wechsler_Adult_Intelligence_Scale - nepawoods, on 10/12/2007, -4/+17Actually, you'd have to be pretty dumb to believe that in all the ways evolution has made differences between ethnicities, that it still somehow managed to maintain perfect equality between ethnicities with regard to average intelligence. We can accept that certain races are, on average, taller, or shorter, or heavier, or lighter, or have greater or lesser ability, on average, to excell in a particular sport, but God forbid anyone suggest there might be differences in intelligence ... that's just not ... politically correct.
- Novagenesis, on 10/12/2007, -2/+15@DreKor
"IQ is a measure of general intelligence and cognitive ability"
On the contrary. IQ -tries- to be a measure of general intelligence and cognitive ability.
Most IQ tests I have taken have a handful of sections, NOT limited to a vocabulary and grammar section, a math section, and a classical logic section.
Saying vocabulary defines intelligence is bull...it defines education.
Math may be a strong factor in intelligence, but it's a special -part- of intelligence. Some geniuses do miserable at math, but give them a calculator and they'll discover the secrets of the world.
And classical logic... sure, if you're untrained in it, it'll help with your intelligence. I've taken IQ tests with and without study/prep/practice, and test prep increases my IQ into the 160 range, while it's comfortably lower without prepping. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -2/+15I tend to discount this article as it seems that it singles out whites. I am white, but it is not "fair and balanced" in any sense. Blacks, Hispanics, Asians, and Middle Easterners can all be racist. Racism, ironically, does not discriminate.
- lemonsensation, on 10/12/2007, -8/+19"Unfortunately, this also explains the disproportionate amount of minorities in prison."
I can't disagree with this more. Low IQ and the high amount of minorities (mainly blacks) doesn't explain anything and doesn't mean they are correlated. - underthelinux, on 10/12/2007, -0/+11In Freakonomics, they say exactly that. Smart people are racist, they just hide it.
The example given:
Taking a verbal survey of one candidate versus the other (i think black vs caucasian), the results were 50-50. But when the same survey was given later on paper (or in a private booth), the data was very much skewed toward the caucasian.
NOTE: I don't remember the exact example, hence i'm being so vague. Its in Freakonomics, by Levitt and Dubner.
SecondNOTE: I don't take everything in that book to be true, i'm just citing their example. - archiesteel, on 10/12/2007, -7/+17"/not a rasist
//loves other races
///but loves my race more"
If you're not a racist you shouldn't believe in the concept of races. Races are not a true biological reality in this case, i.e. there is only one "race" of man. What we percieve as race is a mixture of inherited culture and history, as well as a ridiculously small number of gene pairs. For example, there are only ten genes determining the amount of melanin in skin pigmentation, determining one's "color". That less than 1/1,000 of all genes. These genetic variations, exacerbated by millenias of geographical isolation, have led us to consider humans as separated into different races, but there is no scientific basis for this assertion.
The sooner everyone understands that it's *not* about race, but rather about differences in cultures, the sooner we can start to work at overcoming these differences. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -5/+15What about Henry Ford? anti-semitism is just as bad as racism, but try and imagine a world without the assembly line or the model T
- lnf69, on 10/12/2007, -6/+16anti-semitism is racism, not "just as bad as".
Anyway, thumbs up on the point of Henry Ford.
But perhaps he is the exception. But we'd need his IQ in order to judge that. - johnhummel, on 10/12/2007, -1/+10Not necessarily. Part of the very concept of being racist is to prejudge a situation. If you have either decided or come from an environment where racism is tolerated, you are taught to presuppose certain concepts. Black people commit crimes, jews control the banks, white people want to keep others down, so on and so forth.
If you are raised in an environment where race is just a skin color or family inheritance, then the situation is different. You are taught on some level to not accept things as they look, but to investigate what they *are*. Is that white person a criminal, or a cop? Is that black person your banker, a political leader, or a thug? You won't know until you actually take a moment think think, reason, and observe your environment rather than making predetermined judgements.
This leads into thinking critically about other things. While much of this is subconscious and subtle, you can start to set up experiments where presupposing facts based on outward appearances can cause lower IQ scores, because people aren't taught to really think about things. Then again, that seems to be the problem with so many people: they haven't been taught how to critically think and reason their way through the world, so believe any slick voiced moron who can be elected into office or appears on a commercial. - Kyderdog, on 10/12/2007, -0/+9Nascar lowers the IQ too....
- jdavid, on 10/12/2007, -0/+9i think, its a simple fact of exposure. People with a higher intelligence are more traveled, and exposed to situations that introduce them to more cultures through exploration, reading, and peer introduction. For people with less aptitude, it is harder for them to get out of their niche community and develop a stronger mono world view.
- tjlsmith, on 10/12/2007, -28/+36Are we talking about idiots like Dr Shockley, Dr Pierce and Dr Duke?
Morons, all of them.
Seriously, the reason the study comes out like this is smart people trying to build careers in academia learn very early that being politically incorrect regarding race is career suicide.
They therefore lie about being racist. The studies are worthless and typical of the bad thinking that comes from entertaining our savage tribal taboos. - EggNerd, on 10/12/2007, -2/+10I suspect this is reverse causality:
IOW, the lower your IQ, the more likely you are to be racist. - gamecast, on 10/12/2007, -1/+9Being a racist is the most useless thing you can do. These people should do more useful things like be foot stools or confetti.
- progidy, on 10/12/2007, -2/+10jamescarville made a correlation that went the wrong way, and it didn't sit well with the people who dug him down:
"Unfortunately, this also explains the disproportionate amount of minorities in prison."
Having a low IQ doesn't make you a minority (in race). Even if it can be shown to be parallel on a graph, halobender. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -6/+14I'm sure Louis Farakhan doesn't appreciate you all calling him mentally handicapped.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+9Come on guys, you are seriously going to digg a comment about race by someone named porchnegro? Seriously.
- xDibblerx, on 10/12/2007, -1/+9So Jesse Jackson has a low IQ then? I always wondered about that and now I know I was right.
- nebrfan, on 10/12/2007, -3/+10Or maybe it's just as simple as generally ppl w/ lower IQs are not likely to succeed in life/professional world and need someone to downplay to prop-up their own fragile egos - "I may be an alcoholic high school dropout, but at least I'm not black."
- pintomp3, on 10/12/2007, -3/+10shouldn't this be obvious? low IQ goes hand in hand with ignorance. ignorance is a huge part of racism.
- hbweb500, on 10/12/2007, -3/+10Statistics will always show that there are exceptions to the rule. I can only base my opinion on what I have experienced. Most people I know who are racist are either old or stupid, but not all of them.
Sure, we are stereotyping, but instead of abandoning stereotypes, why don't we investigate them and understand a little more about what makes us think them up? - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -3/+10His oratory skills and ability to subvert would qualify him as a genius certainly, his art skills however sucked the dick.
- xutopia, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7That's why it's called a bell curve. On every bell curve there are extremes, sometimes a few well known ones.
The bell curve does show that on average the racist people as a whole have a lower IQ than the normal population. Just showing that us a few smart people are racist does not change the fact that if you are racist you have more chance to be more stupid than the average Joe. - quiltmaster, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6I think that je12u is partially right, but I would say that the feelings of your parents and family are a much bigger factor then intelligence. If a smart parent not racist parent has a stupid child, that child wont be rascist. However a lower IQ probally means that a person would be easier to convince of any given idea such as racism.
and shayateen, political affiliation isn't a race. So I am not being racist when I say "You are an idiot" - aaarrrggghhh, on 10/12/2007, -3/+9I recall seeing a live Police conference during the Oldham (UK) riots a few years ago.
The Police Chief (iirc) was cracking on about right wing extremists causing racial tension in the area and how the minority community was victimised. One reporter asked him what the percentage of racial attacks were, the PO shuffled uncomfortably and made the usual excuses to not answer but the reporter pressed him again and he was forced to answer that around (im going from memory here) 70% of racial attacks in the area were against the indigenous (white) population. The usual excuses were then spewed out to explain this (non reporting, poor living standards etc). Given that the population of the area at the time was something like 15% ethnic minorities, thats 15% of the population committing 70% of racial crime. Interesting that they still insisted on playing the right wing extremist card and that the white community was to blame. - smitting, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7Heh, I bet people in Angola also have lower computer skills as well. This list seems to be more of an indicator of cultural bias in our IQ tests than an indicator of some kind of genetic link between IQ and race.
- banditski, on 10/12/2007, -2/+8@archiesteel
Yeah, I was told that in school too. But looking at it more rationally, you can see that it is clearly wrong. We are one species, obviously, but there are different races. By races here I mean groups of alleles that tend to be more frequent in certain populations than others. It is not an absolute category, but it doesn't mean that it doesn't exist. The same way at no point did two ***** erectus parents give birth to a ***** sapiens child (i.e. no clear distinction between species through time), there is no clear line between races.
Saying we are all one race is like saying dogs are all one breed. No - in each case are all one *species*. - slantyyz, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6Just remember two things, guys...
correlation != causation
IQ tests are only suggestive indicators of intelligence. IQ tests can be culturally biased, and only represent how good a person is at writing an IQ test.
I don't dispute the correlation, but as with everything, you have to take at least one grain of salt when reading articles of this nature. - FishPoisonCon, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6"However, their followers tended to be of lower IQ"
ever wonder why they are "followers" in the first place? - AzzuzuSkullpipe, on 01/05/2009, -0/+5Not necessarily true. Much racism is based upon stereotypes that are confirmed via real life experience. I.E., I know several highly intelligent people that have had careers managing low income contract workers, mostly minority and all extremely transient. At least one was truly a non-racist before immersing himself in that world, and after dealing with this highly irresponsible population for a few years became a true, hardcore racist.
Granted, he didn't base his judgment on a true sampling of the population, only the transient, low income group that couldn't hold down a steady job. He probably hated them because of that, not because of race, but the fact is in his real-life experience 99% of the members he encountered of a couple specific racial groups were worse than their stereotypes.
Not justified, I agree, but definitely contrary to the sweeping statement of "all racism is based on ignorance therefore all racists must be stupid".
How about this - "Anyone who accepts stereotypes at face value or categorizes an entire group of people based upon the behavior of a small sample of that group is stupid." Sounds better and includes people who say things like "all racists and stupid" simply because they haven't ever known an intelligent racist, or someone who actually made a conscious decision to be racist. Believe me, they are out there. - banditski, on 10/12/2007, -3/+8Never use a large word when a diminutive one will do.
-
Show 51 - 100 of 402 discussions
The Digg Toolbar for Firefox lets you Digg, submit content, and keep track of Digg even when you're not on the Digg site. Download the official 
© Digg Inc. 2009
— Content created and posted by Digg users is