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192 Comments
- Samwizen, on 04/05/2009, -19/+91Hopefully we can all agree the scientific evidence is now strong enough to warrant a new and truly independent investigation. There appear to be serious logical and evidential issues with much of the (multiple) official conspiracy theories.
- QuantumBios, on 04/05/2009, -15/+60"Let us not tolerate conspiracies theories, which attempt to place the blame on people other than the turr-ists" Hmmm
- wowest, on 04/05/2009, -23/+63Some of us may know the truth, but be unable to prove that we know the truth. We don't know what the truth about 9/11 is right now, but we can tell that the government has been lying to us about a lot of aspects of the 9/11 disaster.
- Rothbardosaurus, on 04/05/2009, -2/+42I have absolutely no idea what actually happened that day, but I do know the popular conspiracy theory that 19 arab terrorists took the country, its defenses and intelligence community completely by surprise is absolute hogwash.
The CIA created Al Qaeda. These hijacked planes enjoyed conspicuously absent air defenses. Their success was augmented by the total destruction of three triple-overdesigned skyscrapers, the majority of each -- including the foundations -- was undamaged until the entire building disintegrated.
I don't know if they had operatives within our government, or if criminal elements of our government helped them along, or if our government is really this incompetent, or if there were no terrorists involved at all and it truly was an inside job. But I do know that what we're *supposed* to believe is not the truth. - mbtria, on 04/05/2009, -0/+34How many of you who are complaining about the quality of the paper have taken the time to read it?
You only have a right to an opinion if you have done your homework.
A link to the abstract of the paper, and a downloadable pdf.
http://www.bentham-open.org/pages/content.php?TOCP ... - smotpoker, on 04/05/2009, -11/+41Operation Northwoods
- skanton, on 04/05/2009, -11/+40" Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth are encouraged to take an active role by reporting the results of their research on 9/11 by means of lectures, articles, and methods of disseminating the truth about the 9/11 WTC building “collapses”."
http://www.ae911truth.org - yerdaddy, on 04/05/2009, -6/+35Keep your eyes on the ball boys and girls. The 9/11 incident, although flashy, amounts to a little smash and grab compared to the looting of an entire nation.
- Axias, on 04/05/2009, -2/+30Cheney just happens to be at SAC on the morning of 9/11.. Decides to 'stand-down' any response.. Never answers to his decisions that day, despite the fact that he basically broke every NORAD/SAC rule there was that day... Engine chasis on pentagon lawn doesen't match plane that supposedly hit. 8 cameras pick up the action, 5 frames, all blurred, are the only footage ever released.. Agents had rounded up all tapes within 30 minutes of the accident, amazing work.. The two places in the world where legal records of insider trading and government corruption are stored are miraculously destroyed within hours of one another (building 7 and the pentagon..).
Sums it up pretty nicely I think.
Of course this is all ludicrous and sensational based on Cheneys and Bush otherwise angelic actions since.. (Deregulation -> economy disaster, dereg enviro -> EPA is now a joke, Lies about Iraq -> 4000 dead gi's and a unwinnable foreign occupation..) Gosh , i could write this stuff all day.
Neo-cons rot in hell. - pgoetz, on 04/05/2009, -5/+31Thanks for your ignorance. How about taking a look at the article published in the scientific journal before running off at the mouth like some quarter-operated buffoon?
http://www.bentham-open.org/pages/content.php?TOCP ...
In point of fact you WON'T find steel and aluminum mixed together this way under normal circumstances -- that's the whole point of the f'ing study. But thanks again for being a sheepl. - Therion596, on 04/05/2009, -1/+25I'm seeing a lot of "absurd" this and "ludicrous" that - beware of your own confirmation bias! I think the best post on here is the one mentioning the Dunning-Kruger effect - All evidence should be considered, and I don't see any reason why a new and independent, not to mention thorough, investigation ought to take place, especially in light of the fact that we have an entire new administration at the top of things now. Can anybody come up with a rational reason why not? "Use your reason!"
- DD2CC2U, on 04/05/2009, -13/+37The real question is why is Thermite present in any quantity measured? Thermite is only used in explosives. Shouldn't there be a big concern and question coming from the FBI and the CIA on this matter?
- letsgetsurgical, on 04/05/2009, -3/+26I've seen a few comments saying "there is little or no evidence to support a conspiracy theory"
Thermite, which was in thermate form at the WTC, was found all over all 3 towers, which caused the molten metal seen on video, and the pools under the towers that lasted for weeks. Jet fuel, which was the 9/11 commission report's cause for the molten metal, cannot possibly melt steel. Thermate is used to cut steel support columns in demolitions, and in explosives.
Building seven, the biggest smoking gun, wasn't even hit by a plane, but it had molten metal under it. Also, have you even watched the tape of it falling? It wedges in the middle and falls straight down at freefall speed, in the exact pattern of demolitions. The 9/11 commission report reported FIRE caused structural failure in all 3 towers, bring them down; they admit it couldn't have been the planes. No steel building in history before or after 9/11 has fallen from fire.
The twin towers also fell at freefall speed (7 seconds) in a perfect demolition pattern. The 9/11 commission reports it fell from the 'pancake theory'- the top floors loosened from the steel supports and fell onto lower floors, each falling like a stack of pancakes onto the next. Watch the video yourself to debunk this; also, if this is what really happened, the 47 steel structural supports would still be standing. They somehow all snapped at the very bottom, with many having a clean cut through the beam, at an angle, with molten steel along the cut. You can see the photos, and remember, jet fuel doesn't burn hot enough to melt steel.
There was absolutely no evidence of a plane hitting the pentagon, rather an explosive device. There were no plane engines, no plane parts at all, no seats, no bodies, no blood, according to the responding coroners. The 9/11 commission reported the impact and heat of the jet fuel burning vaporized everything, including both 6-ton engines made of heavy steel (of course, never happened in history). However, a government official claims to have found fingerprints and DNA evidence, which somehow survived a fire that turned a plane to dust. And, something you may have not heard- the final 9/11 report was a unanimous report, meaning if anything was disputed by any member it was simply left out of the final report.
A few people who have come out and said 9/11 was an inside job: Bill Christiensen, CIA section chief, the majority of 9/11 victims' families, the structural engineer for the twin towers, the structural engineer for tower 7, countless explosive experts, physicists, chemists, structural engineers, architects, a vast majority of the first responders (firemen, etc), the former head of ministry of defense of Germany (he was in position on 9/11). Oh, and let's not forget the handful of hi-jackers who turned out to be ALIVE after the 9/11 commission reported them to be the suicide bombers.
Our government has declassified documents over the years revealing over 200 false-flag operations (terror acts done to one group to frame another group and start conflicts) they have performed in other countries. They have also declassified the Gulf of Tonkin to be a complete farce, and they have declassified that they knew Pearl Harbor was coming. If you have never looked into the evidence of JFK, Oklahoma city, the 2001 and 1993 attacks on the WTC, the 7/7 bombings in London, the sinking of the Lusitania to get us into WWI, and instead believe what you are told because it makes you feel comfortable, then you need to wake up and start thinking for yourself. With each of these crises, international bankers have gotten rich (war is the most lucrative business, American bankers funded both sides of WWII), and more and more of our freedoms are being taken away. All it takes to see through these illusions are questions. Ask yourself: why do they supposedly hate us? The gov't says it's our freedoms and prosperity, which they promptly take away when ***** happens, but do you believe that? Why don't they want to terrorize Canada or Ireland? Why the US and Britain? Could it be because we have invaded their HOLY LAND and refuse to leave? Why won't they stabilize the mexican border, if they're so interested in the citizens' security? Why did Bush and Cheney only go before the 9/11 commission on their own, drastic terms? Why was Cheney in charge of NORAD (the defense system that intercepts hijacked planes and scrambles F-16s in minutes) the morning of 9/11? Why were his instructions so confusing that no one responded until 80 minutes after the hijackings? Do you think Osama or any terrorist could disable NORAD? Why have so many gov't agents (especially CIA) come out and said our government orchestrated this? Who are the only ones who profited from the attacks? - Demand911Truth, on 04/05/2009, -1/+24"The important thing is not to stop questioning."
-Albert Einstein
"There is no harm in doubt and skepticism, for it is through these that new discoveries are made."
-Richard Feynman - ironcar222, on 04/05/2009, -29/+51Anyone with half a brain could have known on 9/11 that those towers were "Pulled". Just plain common sense tells me the chances of two huge towers collapsing exactly the same way into it's own foot print, is not a random natural act.
- LeepII, on 04/05/2009, -11/+335 DANCING Israeli agents filming the WTC collapse, WITH A CAMERA SET UP AHEAD OF TIME!!!!
The FBI lets these guys go, and gives them a ride to the airport. With ALL planes shut down, 200 Israeli agents are allowed to leave the country (Urban Moving Systems). Asked to comment about the 5 dancing Israelis, the director of the FBI says "The involvement of the Israelis in 9/11 is classified".
OH and I just digged the comment smotpoker made and THE DIGG TOTAL WENT DOWN, NOT UP. - wowest, on 04/05/2009, -4/+26I think we need some experimentation to determine that, bremstrong.
.
Given the economy of scale and the fact that production of nano particles is new technology, the idea that nano thermite paint was applied to the steel to protect it from corrosion is silly. It would have been cheaper and more effective to plate all of the steel with gold.
.
I don't think the math is going to be important until we have a better guess at what probably happened here. Linear shaped charges of nano-thermite would make the most sense for what cut the core columns up. If you go to
www.defenselink.mil/contracts/contract.aspx?contractid=3811
you can see that conventional linear shaped charges come in various lengths and strengths, according to various military specifications. A nano-thermite LSC wouldn't be that hard to put together, once you had manufactured the nanothermite. - jsffive, on 04/05/2009, -3/+24Look, aside from the theories about WHAT brought the buildings down, there's the obvious problem with how FAST the buildings came down, once they started to collapse, and the NATURE of the collapse.
Buildings don't just collapse STRAIGHT DOWN. Usually, there's too much resistance from the underlying structure, which is to say that collapsing buildings usually TOPPLE, they don't fall into their own footprint.
Also, we have the video evidence that two 1500 foot tall buildings fell in about TEN SECONDS EACH... this doesn't set off any bells?
If you had jumped off the top of the tower at the exact instant that the buildings started to collapse, YOU... would have hit the ground... AFTER the top of the buildings, due to air resistance.
But we are to believe that the buildings, which had SOLID BUILDING under it during the collapse, (which any sensible person would understand presents more "resistance" than mere air particles), collapsed in TEN SECONDS with NO... ASSISTANCE... WHATSOEVER...
Which "conspiracy theory" do you wish to believe, the "truther's", or the government's?
You know, since the government is ALWAYS so honest with us...
How many people would have to be in on this alleged conspiracy? Because, according to the government's conspiracy theory, it only took TWENTY people to hijack four aircraft, and destroy something like SEVEN buildings, and to damage the Pentagon.
THEIR conspiracy theory sounds crazier every day. - vat0r, on 04/05/2009, -3/+24In my mind the ratio or amount of thermite means nothing. The truly maddening thing is that it was found at all.
- drbeeth, on 04/05/2009, -3/+22Anybody who has the slightest doubt if yes or no - it was controlled demolition, please do watch Architect Richard Gage's 100% SOLID PROOF 2 hour DVD: "9/11: BLUEPRINT to TRUTH - The Architecture of Destruction" . These last scientific findings, published by Prof. Niels Harrit and Dr. Jeffrey Farrer in a peer reviewed journal may not be ignored, adding to other scientific findings, like http://dx.doi.org/10.1007/s10669-008-9182-4 proof of extreme levels of the very unusual contaminant 1,3-diphenylpropane used to apply explosives in their "sol-gel" form. We may not continue and act as if nothing has happened: WE DO HAVE OVERWHELMING EVIDENCE OF PRE-PLANNED EXPLOSIVE DEMOLITION of the three high-rises in New-York. PERIOD.
Dr Beeth in Belgium : www.911truth.org/article.php?story=20090402172118256 - Mosley2, on 04/05/2009, -3/+22Nice to see Raw Story catching up with the rest of the Alt. Media like infowars & prisonplanet (as right-wing as they may sometimes be)
- belswood, on 04/05/2009, -23/+39Will we ever really know the truth about what happened on 9/11? "You can't handle the Truth!"--Jack Nickelson in some movie or other...
- 86thefed, on 04/06/2009, -2/+17Your government spent more money investigating Clinton's blow job... does that say anything to anyone about how much your government cares about 3000 lives. Your government doesn't give a ***** about you and let this thing happen so they could have their new pearl harbor event to sell the adventure in the middle east. It worked out very handsomely for them as well as shredding the bill of rights.
Are you angry yet? - pgoetz, on 04/05/2009, -0/+14Did you read the paper or are you just speculating wildly? I don't think the observation "there appears to have been thermite in the building based on chemical analysis of samples" constitutes a questionable leap in judgment.
- Gilgamesh73, on 04/05/2009, -2/+16Watch Richard Gage's 9/11 Blueprint on Google Video. This is the greatest 9/11 analysis on the planet. I would know since I have seen them all. I promise you that you will come out the other side woke up and ready to fight for the Truth.
BTW, I woke up my entire family with this amazing video. - americasleeps, on 04/05/2009, -1/+15It's called hiding evidence. The same reason the steel was shipped to china without an investigation. It's why it took 2 yrs of bitching to get an investigation started.
- pgoetz, on 04/05/2009, -2/+16The whole point of false flag operations is to create enormous fear so that the population can be manipulated. The WTC was bombed before during the Clinton administration, and the event created hardly a ripple. What if the planes had hit the WTC, and the damage/casualties ended up being minimal? It would have been a huge waste of an opportunity. The only safe thing to do is make sure that the building go down in a spectacular tragedy. Question: how many times have you seen the videos of the buildings ' collapse replayed over and over again?
- Rothbardosaurus, on 04/05/2009, -3/+17Forensics is about building a story that not only matches the evidence at hand, but is also plausible. The official conspiracy theory about the alleged hijackers contains many elements that give explanations about the evidence, but are simply not plausible. The 9/11 Commission Report has office furniture spontaneously leaping out of windows, glossing completely over the physics of how the building ever *began* to collapse in the first place. The trail of evidence connecting the crime to the alleged hijackers reeks of being planted. A profusion of documentation, little to none of it being necessary to the mission, left in cars nearby? Passports surviving thousand-degree fireballs and fluttering safely to the street? An amazingly incompetent novice pilot pulled off a maneuver with a full-size commercial airliner that made its radar image seem like a fighter jet? If these were the suicide hijackers, why are some of them still alive? Isn't it significant that the CIA created Al Qaeda? Or that they had their shot at capturing Osama bin Laden years ago but passed it up?
This is a country where hijacked jets are intercepted within minutes of going off-course. But four jets wandered around for over an hour and not even *one* of them was accosted in the most secure airspace on the planet?
The official conspiracy theory is filled with incredible freak coincidences and first-ever-in-history accomplishments in physics like the total destruction of a steel-reinforced concrete skyscraper, WTC Building 7, whose only significant damage was due to fire.
Since I'm not one to just out and believe whatever crazy conspiracy theory suits my prejudices, I have to conclude that the story in the 9/11 Commission Report is *not* the truth. - BobSutan, on 04/05/2009, -1/+15I doubt 9/11 would have been as huge of a deal if the towers had stayed up. A few hundred deaths vs a few thousand is more than significant. People still remembe Waco, the LA Riots, etc., and I suspect 9/11 would be on par with such an event. Instead it's right up there with Pearl Harbor.
And I have no reason to believe there wasn't more going on that day. It stands to reason there could have been a bomb inside the towers that assisted in their destruction. A) witnesses in the lobby saw a huge explosion and B) it actually happened once in 93. The blatant dismissals of ideas other than the official story and absolutism in the administration running the show doesn't help matters and leaves a lot to be desired wrt objectivity of the 9/11 reports. - pgoetz, on 04/05/2009, -3/+16Thanks for your ignorance. How about taking a look at the article published in the scientific journal before running off at the mouth like some quarter-operated buffoon?
http://www.bentham-open.org/pages/content.php?TOCP ...
In point of fact you WON'T find steel and aluminum mixed together this way under normal circumstances -- that's the whole point of the f'ing study. But thanks again for being a sheepl. - Mosley2, on 04/05/2009, -0/+131) Steven Jones didn't LOSE his job
2) This is NOT a conspiracy theory (please look up what both words mean) it is a scientific FACT - just because you don't like the idea of hearing anything other than the officalial story doesen't make this a non-story. - pgoetz, on 04/05/2009, -3/+16"Yes, two giant f'ing jet planes loaded fully with fuel crashing into the side of each ISN'T a random natural act."
As far as the building is concerned, yes it is! There is no way that the planes crashed in exactly the same spot in exactly the same way in both buildings. Catastrophic damage like this is always asymmetric -- there is no perfect circle in nature.
You're insulting the intellect of truthers when in fact you're the idiot. You probably thought the Iraq war was a good idea too because George Bush told you so, am I right? - pgoetz, on 04/05/2009, -1/+13"So, the government, to avoid the chaotic demolition of the towers that would have resulted from an airplane strike, ran airplanes into the towers before their planned controlled demolition. Yup, makes sense to me"
Who said anything about the government doing anything? Way to set up a paper tiger and then ridicule it. The argument is that the "official" 911 story is extremely implausible. This doesn't mean that "the government" per se had anything whatsoever to do with it. But to answer your question, if you're trying to scare an entire population regarding a terrorist threat then OF COURSE you will ram airplanes into the buildings to disguise the fact that they were actually brought down by controlled demolition.
What's really sad is that despite everything that's happened: the Iraq war, Abu Ghraib, Guantanamo Bay, secret torture memos, wiretapping, election fraud, and the financial collapse, you sheeple continue to just believe everything you're told by Fox News. Sad, very, very sad. - pgoetz, on 04/05/2009, -3/+15Except that 2 of these buildings were specifically architected to withstand such a crash (look it up, genius) and the third wasn't hit by a plane at all!
- emmettgolf, on 04/05/2009, -3/+15Thermite, shermite. All you have to do is watch and not let anyone tell you that you didn't see what you just saw. Watch building seven collapse and see the explosions coming out of the windows on the corners.
When they built the buildings, they connected aluminum floor plates directly to steel beams setting up electrolytic decay and cutting the lifetime of the building by 80%. These buildings had to come down and the owners wanted the taxpayers to pay for the cleanup. Demolitions are against the law in Manhattan and the building would have had to have been disassembled one floor at a time while toxic material was being contained and disposed of. People are beginning to die from the dust now. - ladysherwood, on 04/05/2009, -0/+12very well put.
- Acrinimiril, on 04/05/2009, -1/+13The World Trade Center buildings were designed to withstand multiple impacts from airliners.
Then there is World Trade Center 7 skyscraper, which also collapsed straight down on itself, and was not hit by an airliner.
The Empire State building was stuck by a bomber, the fire was put out, and the building re-opened in two weeks after repairs were made. - mbtria, on 04/05/2009, -2/+14Standard grade thermite is not an explosive, nanograde thermite is.
- pgoetz, on 04/05/2009, -1/+12When was the last time you were in a commercial airplane carrying thermite?
- criticalmaster, on 04/05/2009, -0/+11Yes, the events of 9/11 were the smash and grab which allowed the looting of the entire nation. It is as though thugs busted our windows, then returned to "protect us", to their great profit.
- buckrogers1965, on 04/06/2009, -0/+11Funny, what other attack in 2001 used advanced mano weaponized materials.. The anthrax was also coated in a nano material that caused it to not clump.
- Birdoftruth, on 04/05/2009, -2/+13wait now hold on, I'm no consipiracy theorist but to say WTC7 Fell over is a bit over the top. cause that bitch dropped straight down.
- chupavacas, on 04/05/2009, -2/+13In sum: They found super, nano technology, unfired thermitic material in the dust collected at various sites and it could have been applied by spraying or painting on steel. This material would have been very innovative in 2001 and this paper draws the conclusion that the DoD was working on nanotechnology application for explosives such as this.
Implications: 1) given that this was innovative material they are probably not a lot of sources for it, so it will be easy to track down the origin and it would appear that the DoD is a good place to start.
2) Given that this material is easily applied through painting or spraying and is safe to handle in a gel state it could have been applied without causing concern as opposed to traditional therimite charges which are distinct in appearance. - Notasheeple, on 04/05/2009, -1/+12Shock and awe........
- inactive, on 04/05/2009, -17/+27Right, a ***** PLANE CRASHED INTO THEM. That tends to damage some structural integrity.
- Gilgamesh73, on 04/05/2009, -3/+13The towers were designed to specifically handle a direct airline crash and the ensuing fires. This has been stated by all of the engineers and architects. Hello? Someone has not been paying attention......
- adderley, on 04/07/2009, -0/+10The fact alone that THREE buildings collapsed is counterintuitive. I'm really not happy to say this but boy.
I read the Commission Report. America should not be happy with the extent to which this mass murder was investigated. - Rothbardosaurus, on 04/05/2009, -0/+10>The government is us.
http://mises.org/easaran/chap3.asp
>So now, are you going to tell me that everyone in the US is in on it besides you few conspiracy nuts?
I sympathize with you. I had to climb the same intellectual wall that you are presently faced with.
-On the one hand, there is what I was taught in school: the system works for our good, tyranny is impossible in America, and all the great presidents of the past were glorious visionaries who made the world a better place. If one misbehaves, he will be replaced soon by the wisdom of the voters.
-On the other hand, there is the preponderance of data contradicting that paradigm: the system either doesn't work, or works against us. The demons of oppression that plagued China, Germany, Russia, and Cambodia are now beating on our own door, and the voters have answered the knock of tyranny with cheers of enthusiasm. Our government is run by a criminal gang who will kill anyone, destroy anything, whatever they deem necessary to manipulate us into accepting their plans.
The first way of thought is reassuring, and lets us get on with our lives without thinking about all the freedom we're missing out on. The second is infuriating, frustrating, and can make one feel like a prisoner in his own country. But without first knowing the truth, you can't react appropriately to the reality around you.
I wish you nothing but peace and success in your pursuit of the truth. - Notasheeple, on 04/05/2009, -0/+10well *****, if pen and teller say it's true it must ***** be so..............
***** idiot. -
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