What is Digg?138 Comments
- inactive, on 10/11/2007, -2/+57Single Father in the US = No rights.
I'm a father and i didnt plan it. Its hard being a 24 year old father who is not in love with the mother. I try my best to show my boy that i have respect and admiration for his mothther even though she picks fights and uses my son as a pawn against me. It is a very difficult situation because i never wanted to live in Ohio the rest of my life but i feel that my son deserves his dad around all the time so my dreams of moving out of this rust bucket town are no more because i have to remain selfless and be there for my son. My money gets taken by the mother for "child support" but she spends it on going out and her self. Fathers have no rights no wonder we take off and loose contact. Not that im going to. - littlebylittle, on 10/11/2007, -9/+62Any parent that "loses contact" with their minor child is scum if you ask me. It's abandonment.
I have a female attorney friend and even she says the Family Court system is messed up beyond belief.
There are a whole lot of Dads out there that would make the better Parent. The courts rarely see it that way. - cliffzdude, on 10/11/2007, -10/+50"Anthropologists are trying to figure out why."
It pisses me off when people try to figure out "why" sticking your finger up your ass makes it smell bad.
Ok graduate students trying to find something easy to write your dissertation about: Courts that keep divorced Fathers away from the kids, combined with Mothers who keep divorced Fathers away lead to kids who have less and less contact with their Father, regardless how great a person he may be. - fcain, on 10/11/2007, -1/+37Whoa viraz, that's postpartum depression. Get your girlfriend to a doctor ASAP and explain the situation.
- Sithlrd, on 10/11/2007, -7/+38In spite of what the politically correct will tell you, there ARE roles that women are suited for and roles that a man is suited for. When a woman tries to be all things to the family because "anything you can do I can do better", the man becomes marginalized and at best buries himself in his work, at worst finds a life outside the home. Then when home falls apart, it's always "his" fault for being detatched and disengaged from the family.
My sister just ran off her third (fourth ?) husband with this pattern. Thank the gods she hasn't reproduced. - dmegivern, on 10/11/2007, -3/+31I think we poorly socialize men for the father role. Those men who do invest in parenting usually report they enjoy it. My husband is a better parent than I am, for example.
- bluebearr, on 10/11/2007, -0/+26There is this little thing called joy. It goes beyond happiness, so that even when times get tough, you have this exuberant feeling about the source of your joy.
Before I became a father, I never imagined that children would bring me joy. Other people's children certainly didn't bring me joy. But there you go. Having now experienced this joy, I realize how much I would be losing if I had never experienced fatherhood. - hlgriggs, on 10/11/2007, -0/+23I'm dealing with this now myself. I love my son more than anything, I'm a damn good dad and after a year and a half of living with me and my new wife (straight A's in school, no behavior problems, all of his friends are here, etc.), his mother decided he would be better off with her. I consulted an attorney and was told that unless she shows up to court with a needle hanging out of her arm there was no way that I stood a chance to retain custody. This country is screwed when it comes to father's rights.
- dragonexe, on 10/11/2007, -0/+22@hlgriggs
Reminds me of this couple I knew that got pregnant. The woman had her mind dead set on abortion which simply devastated the father as he wanted to have that child more than anything. I'm all about pro-choice, but I can't say that I blame him, I just couldn't go through with that.
Anyway, it was that story that led me to find a someone who made a statement talking about how men are forced to pay child support, but have zero say in whether or not to keep the child, "When it comes to children, women have all the rights, men only have responsibility". - geddon, on 10/11/2007, -0/+21@keyguy242 We're somehow living parallel lives.
As a 33 yr old father I've been dealing with "post-divorce parenting" my 11 yr old daughter for over five years in much the same way MY father did: Dancing on egg shells, doing everything her mother asks out of fear of another trip to court. Thankfully we're coming up on the year my little girl gets to decide where she lives, and with a mother who is just as overbearing on our daughter as she is to me, this should be a slam dunk -- as soon as I can get a fancy new setup to match what the mother and her 40+ husband has.
The difference between my father and I is that I am NOT standing up to fight the system. He wasted so much time and money only to end up with the child in dispute -- my brother -- not particularly caring for either parent. In fact, the entire ordeal turned him into a non-committed opportunist. I'd rather my daughter see that I love her, and that I'm putting up with the control freak our court systems have produced in order to spend a better life with her. - br0ck, on 10/11/2007, -0/+21@viraz - she might have post-natal depression which affects 10-15% of mothers. It's a very common and very serious condition and you should probably look into it. On the other hand, the first two months after birth are very, very difficult due to lack of sleep, not knowing what you're doing, and just the stress of extreme lifestyle change. It gets easier after the baby starts sleeping and after you get the hang of things. http://www.bbc.co.uk/health/conditions/postnatal1.shtml
- Lewie, on 10/11/2007, -3/+23The book "Iron John" by Robert Bly comes up with an interesting theory of what has happened with men (not directly related to these fatherhood statistics, but it could probably be applied).
In the 1940's and 50's, most men started moving from traditional jobs such as farming and trade skills to office/business jobs. This caused their sons to never see what they do, and spend much less time with them. As a result, they spent much more time with their mothers, and adopted their mother's view of men (often negative). So now these young boys have growing, negative theories of who their fathers are and what they are doing when they're working.
The business men fathers are focused on income, and much less on the time they spend with their children. So in the 60's and 70's, we have the resentful flower children who have come to associate Government/Business with their fathers, and resent them too. These young men haven't learned the proper roles of being men, or being fathers because most of them did not have any at home. A big theme in the book is that boys need to bond with an adult male figure (like Iron John) to 'learn the ways of men'. Without this role model, he begins to substitute role models after people who do care for him - women. So he starts joining Feminist groups, and take up their cause against the evil Father-Government.
So, in a nutshell, these men probably have not had the proper role models to show them what it is to be a man/father. If you read the book, you'll probably see why this makes sense. - Chromatik, on 10/11/2007, -0/+19You and I have the exact same situation except I'm 29. - Stuck in Ohio, Mother picks fights and uses him while I take the high road. Spends my son's child support on:
a new car,
a new laptop,
a $500 dog
2 trips to Vegas this year so far (no my son didn't go).
The County was happy to use my tax money to extract child support but wasn't interested in providing counsel to get visitation rights. They tell me they do these things for the welfare of my son. I won't bother to get into the rest, Digg doesn't have the drive space
Equal rights for all indeed... ***** this system
Thats ok though, because he is smart and is already seeing the truth. I won't need to burn her in the end. She's already her own undoing. - joklem, on 10/11/2007, -10/+29It's true that single fathers have zero rights.
My father had a sense of authority. When my parents divorced, my mother got to keep my and my brother and my father had one in two weekends to see us.
My mom is the kind that let their kids do anything. I had to commit a crime and get into a juvenile detention center to find real "parenthood", and that's the reason why I'm not ***** up today.
A child needs at least one parent with enough authority to slap you across the face if need be, but these days, that's assault charges. That's why kids today are ***** up beyond belief.
Edit: blargh, accidental comment abuse - Eivo, on 10/11/2007, -2/+20Coming from a divorced / mixed family, I don't see why fathers get all the *****. You never hear in the news about mothers that do this kind of thing, but that is exactly what my mother did. I honestly have to say I hate the term "Dead-Beat Dads", because it isn't just fathers who abandon their children, and it isn't just mothers who make great parents. But, that's just my 2¢'s
- ronh, on 10/11/2007, -1/+19I feel blessed to have a wife that is involved in our family as much as I am. It's not a one way road. I think both for males and females in modern society we are losing touch with what being in a family and community means, we are becoming more self centered and absorbed and our children and society at large suffer for this.
It's a sad situation and you are not the only one feeling it. - NnyDarko, on 10/11/2007, -0/+16@ Keyguy242
Man, I just want to give you a hug or something. I can't even begin to comprehend what a situation like that must be like to live in. - cmorriss, on 10/11/2007, -1/+15There has to be an element to the fall of the father in the household that is related to the rise in power of women. Men today have a less well defined role in the process of rearing children. They are expected to be more enlightened and share the workload of raising a child while at the same time expected to perform all of their more traditional duties of bringing home a paycheck, fixing the house, etc. This causes a lot of problems in marriages and I think is one of the problems leading to the growing number of divorces. I say this speaking as a husband and father and it is VERY difficult to balance all of these responsibilities.
Note that I'm not saying that women need to act as they did 1000 years ago. Our society needs to find a new balance that takes into account the natural needs of men in addition to those of women. - TubaTechno, on 10/11/2007, -8/+22It's called "family values" and somehow America is losing sight of them....especially the court system....
- ViRaZ, on 10/11/2007, -3/+16Well my girlfriend and I just had a baby 3 weeks ago. She says she can't take care of the baby and she would like it much better if she never had one at all. Maybe it's just the hormones talking but who knows.
- ksponge, on 10/11/2007, -0/+12@danconia (#7207223)
Yeah, if that's the case, they don't need mothers either. There is nothing a mother can provide that I can't. Nada. However, psychologically, both are needed to pass on respective skills/ proper emotional responses to life situations. And finally, you're an idiot. I know this first hand. My father left when I was young, and I definitely wanted him to be there. Now, I could give a *****, but unhardened, it made my life raw and difficult. - Thepirateking, on 10/11/2007, -0/+12Heh. Everyone gets boring after a while. I can't speak for women but I can speak for me. You know why I want to spend al my free time and much of my money on my 3 year old daughter? Easy. The Love and trust she has for me. When she gets home from daycare (I get home first) she comes running up to me and gives me a hug. I've been told serveral times, without coaxing "My daddy the best!" Scrapped knees? Runs for Daddy. Learns something new? runs for daddy to show me. Wants to play with Lego? Daddy again (yes my old lego, not that duplo crap).
Ever want to see a kid cry and shape up? I don't even have to raise my voice to scold her. I just get down face to face with her, hold her hands and tell her that Daddy is very disapointed that she did something she wasn't supposed to (like fighting) and it makes me sad. That kid starts crying right away. You know what she says? "I so sorry daddy!" I take something away or withhold something she likes but what upsets her most is that Daddy is disapointed with her.
I've seen this kid jump into the swimming pool in our building, because I told her I would catch her. If I tell her it's okay to do something, she does it. I've had her tell me at the fair that she wasn't scared because daddy was with her.
Kids have this funny habit of trusting and loving their parents totally. I can't even imagine betraying that trust. Any Real parent can tell you that taking care of your child is the best job. I've had friends tell me that since I became a dad I'm less fun. To hell with them. They have no way of understanding what real joy is! I'm less fun to them, because I have more enjoyable, more important things to do then hang out, drink myself retarded and talk about nothing.
and it's more fun! More fun! Funner is not a word! - inactive, on 10/11/2007, -3/+15FTA: Many of our primate kin are far better fathers than we are (investigators at the California primate center discovered that baby titi monkeys are in the arms of their fathers for as much as 90% of daylight hours); many are far worse. But all are at least consistent within their species. Why does paternal care in our species vary so much?...The politicized notion of the nuclear family aside, a mother and father raising children alone was typically a temporary and often less than optimal phase for our ancestors.
- bsolidgold, on 10/11/2007, -1/+13My father tried to be a parent. My mother (and the courts) wouldn't let him. At the time, he was much better suited to be the one raising my sisters and I... and probably still would be. A result of the courts and my mother alienating us from our father we never grew close to him. We still, to this day, are not as close as we could/should be. Regardless of how fit a man is to being a father... the courts should have far less of a say in whether he can be one or not.
I could go on, and on... and on.
/soapbox - jqueen, on 10/11/2007, -0/+12I am a single father. A true single father that has his kids living with him and pays the ex wife anyway. I get no money from anyone nor any babysitting service. My kids are 13 and 17 so it has gotten much easier. I was at my daughters graduation yesterday and during all the speeches, I hear mom referred to at least 8 times. Dad was not mentioned once. It is insulting how Fathers are viewed. It is also humiliating how some fathers disappear.
- ronh, on 10/11/2007, -3/+15You are an example of the self centered mentality of our civilization. You have no comprehension of the importance of children that they literally are our future and without them there would be no real joy and no hope.
- btgoss, on 10/11/2007, -2/+13Especially today when the concept of "baby-momma" is something that is excepted and to some degree promoted.
Which is not to say the problem is just with the father or mother, but the concept of a mother being to sole person responsible for that life is the problem. - HarryBauzonia, on 10/11/2007, -1/+12Of course it's written by a woman.
Women adore themselves on mother's day, but use father's day to man-bash.
The one thing she avoids pointing out is that many children don't have fathers because their mothers arranged it that way.
The bitch. - dgh1973, on 10/11/2007, -0/+10"""
Among foraging humans, children need 19 years--and consume 13 million calories--before producing more food for their community than they take from it, according to research by anthropologist Hillard Kaplan.
"""
I find this to be questionable. Children can, and in other cultures often do, be much more productive to society than we allow them to be in western cultures. Even in our own country a hundred or more years ago, having lots of children to help run your farm/business was very common practice and these kids were pulling their own weight and then some.
Now our culture has become too "intellectual", requiring children to attend school for at least 13 years before society thinks they can get "real" jobs or contribute in meaningful ways. This is not simply how mankind is, it's a byproduct of modernized cultures. - mablco, on 10/11/2007, -1/+10The industrial revolution pretty much drove fathers out of home life.
- dragonexe, on 10/11/2007, -0/+9Why WOMEN would want to take care of them? My wife just had a baby 2 weeks ago and I love taking care of my child, poopy diapers, sleepless nights and all. I know he's mine (his feet bear an unmistakable resemblance to mine, poor thing), and I am forever fasinated with how I managed to create this new life.
The best part about having kids, by far, is getting to relive life through their eyes. Things that have long ago become uninteresting are suddenly new and exciting all over again. - Ninnux, on 10/11/2007, -0/+9Dude, you should be given a medal for your courage and conviction.
- tommyredcoat, on 10/11/2007, -0/+9@keyguy242
+1 for providing your son with the gift that is a father. One day your son will probably thank you, and the sacrifices you have made will seem even more valuable and worth your time. - yargthepirate, on 10/11/2007, -0/+9"According to a 1994 study by the Children's Defense Fund, men are more likely to default on a child-support payment (49%) than a used-car payment (3%)."
Okay, first of all, don't use studies that are more than a decade old. Second of all, think of what guys need to be paying child support (guys that have left their wife/baby's momma and child(ren)) versus what guys need to be paying for a car (every ***** person in the country). Third of all, don't have women write an article about fatherhood. Sorry women, you don't know anything about it, just like we don't write an article about the psychology of giving birth or something equally impossible for men. - Ninnux, on 10/11/2007, -1/+9@danconia
*****. You need a father figure when growing up, regardless if he has a healthy income or not. At this level, it's not about money, it's about role models. I've personally witnessed bottom-of-the-barrel blue collar and unemployed fathers who are amazing, and white-collar executive types who are not. Hell, we all have I think.
If you don't have this central role model, then something profound will be missing in your life. As jason469 stated, you get use to it. Of course this is the case...children are amazingly resilient and adaptable...and thank God for that.
My prediction as the climate of change in the socio-economic fabric and workplace continues to accelerate, we'll see more of this. This is just another source of pressure pushing the divide between those with means and those whom don't. By means, I mean access to money, family support, friend support, work support, government support, community support. - evileddy60, on 10/11/2007, -3/+11That's the decent thing to do and I fully agree the legal system is slanted WAY towards females.
- Mier, on 10/11/2007, -0/+8Article is total crap. Feminists that want take something else from the males of our society. They can't abide that they might actually need us for something so they need to convince themselves that they need nothing from anyone.
My father is the best I could have ever hoped for. Everyday I look back and I'll remember something that he told me or some activity we did together and I'll miss that. That tells me he is the standard by which I measure myself and I feel badly when I don't think I've reached it. That's why there's a Father's Day, for Dad's like mine. - lensman00, on 10/11/2007, -0/+8I was where you are. I made similar sacrifices in terms of where to live. Now, my kids are both reasonably well-adjusted and close to graduating high school and continuing on to college. I have spent time with them regularly through the years and done a lot of little things to maintain the connections.
Keep paying the child support. Try to draw some reasonable boundaries with the mother, while at the same time continuing to be involved however you can. Keep the story moving toward "well, she has a lot of good qualities" instead of "that manipulative bitch". I hear both of those in what you're saying here and which one you choose to focus on is important. The two of you can do a lot better job resolving your issues than the courts can.
In my case, I got to know my ex's mom and stepdad and now I'm good friends with them, to the point of bowling in their winter league every year. I see my ex only a couple of times a year but we consider ourselves friends. Believe me, I could have focused on negative stuff -- there was plenty. But in retrospect I'm glad I let that stuff go. I've been able to achieve my goals, and my kids are turning out fine, so the details of where the support money has gone isn't really an issue. I don't worry about it.
Down the road, your independent life starts to get returned to you. Being able to hold your head high then will make all the difference. Best of luck. - kiltederic1, on 10/11/2007, -0/+8I am a stay at home dad with a 15 month old son, and I started my own errand service so I can still work a little while bringing my boy with me. My wife works more than full time. I have taken up the house work and the majority of child rearing. I understand that the article is looking at "the averages" and the numbers, but it still irks me to think that more people will look down at fathers more. We (as fathers) know we get a kind of bad rap, and I know its time for more good fathers to step up and be heard.
Sorry if this is a bit preachy, I am happy I live in Seattle where stay at home dads are a bit more excepted, than if I was doing this in the small Minnesota town where I grew up. I would have been viewed as lazy.
I guess I need to stop reading these articles, they get my blood boiling. - nutsackninja, on 10/11/2007, -2/+9@dragonexe
I have no idea why you're being dug down, but I went out of my way to dig you up. I 100% agree with you and anyone who doesn't is a moron. - inactive, on 10/11/2007, -0/+7I'll tell you why? Despite the best efforts by some of us fathers, we made the mistake of marrying mean, vindictive, bitter harpies, who use the kids as pawns, who alienate the kids, even though we fathers do our DAMNDEST to maintain contact with them. FSM knows what those harridans tell the kids. Yes, I'm bitter. I have reason to be. Don't give me that "we abandoned our kids" crap! Oh, thank the family court system, too, in reinforcing that "dad wrong and bad, mom virtuous and always right" bulls--t!
- tawnykw, on 10/11/2007, -0/+7Happy Father's Day to all the good dads out there. My father raised me, which was no easy task. And now my husband is celebrating his first Father's Day with me on Sunday. I chose a good dad for my child and I know that one day my little boy will grow up to be a great dad too because he has an excellent role model.
- blaze4metal, on 10/11/2007, -1/+7"That's why there's a Father's Day, for Dad's like mine."
And that's exactly why the feminists bitch and moan all the way through Father's Day. They can't stand the fact that their little generalizations about the male gender are, for the most part, ***** and everyone is reminded of that on this one day a year. - ksponge, on 10/11/2007, -1/+7@jershie (#7207559)
1 less ***** up genetic strain floating around. - Veritate, on 10/11/2007, -0/+6"father's day to man-bash"
To be frank, the type of person who'd use father's day as an occasion to man-bash isn't exactly holding back on any of the other days. - hoelzro, on 10/11/2007, -1/+7Ditto these guys. I can't imagine making those sacrifices; that's very noble of you.
- ViRaZ, on 10/11/2007, -0/+6I've asked if she wanted some kind of therapy to help her thought it, but I can't just force her to go can I? It doesn't make it easier since I'm in chemotherapy right now. She is also sitting in the room as I type this.
- The_Dude, on 10/11/2007, -0/+6Not only do young boys need a proper father, they need one who teaches them manly stuff, like courage, how to invest money, how to change the oil, how to fix a toliet, how to pay wholesale for diamonds, how to swing a golf club, how to land a hottie..hah...
SUPER DAD! - CrypticSkeptic, on 10/11/2007, -1/+7I registered with Digg to comment on this article.
I believe that the roots of this 'problem' are found in Evolutionary Psychology - more specifically, in the concept of parental uncertainty.
Essential, the theory goes that historically no father could ever be 100% sure that a child was actually his. Thus, fathers who invested their resources (time, mating opportunities, food..ect.) into children who were not of their own stalk, reduced their genetic popularity among the population.
On the other hand, Fathers who were predisposed to shirk their paternal responsibilities risked the chance that their own offspring would be neglected (thus reducing their reproductive opportunities.). Yet they benefited from having multiple partners producing multiple offspring, increasing the likelihood that their genes would be passed on.
I wish I hadn't sold my Evolutionary Psychology text book...such a fascinating subject. - Chromatik, on 10/11/2007, -0/+6There was a time when I had no desire for children. I felt they were disgustingly cute but generally didn't like babies and had every intention to float through life.
Much has happened in the last decade, I can honestly say at this point in my life that nothing brings me "joy" (thanks bluebearr) more than my children. I would do anything for them, they have made me stronger than I ever though possible. They have taught me patience, light, and love, things I had no concept of then. And know that I'm not remotely joking when I say that I would kill for them and that I would die for them without hesitation.
Your children you don't deserve. And they certainly don't deserve you. -
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