What is Digg?64 Comments
- miles01110, on 10/12/2007, -7/+42"a 650-volt current passing between two electrodes rips electrons from the air"
Current isn't measured in volts. - PaulusVictor, on 10/12/2007, -0/+29Perhaps they are saying that there is a 650 volt potential between the diodes which produces a current?
- haooken, on 10/12/2007, -1/+241.21 Jiggawatts!!!
- 0crabby0, on 10/12/2007, -1/+15Popsci article
http://www.popsci.com/popsci/science/873aae7bf86c0110vgnvcm1000004eecbccdrcrd.html - Wolfboy, on 10/12/2007, -1/+14"Link Directly to the Source: Save people time by linking directly to the original news story."
http://www.popsci.com/popsci/science/873aae7bf86c0110vgnvcm1000004eecbccdrcrd.html - haooken, on 10/12/2007, -0/+13There's a potential difference between the electrodes of 650V. combine that with equipment able to feed a high enough current, then you get that arc that "rips apart the air", yielding plasma. Which is really friggin' hot an essentially obliterates the trash into its composite elements. If I understand the article correctly...
- johndi, on 10/12/2007, -0/+12I believe he is getting dugg down because he is linking to sites about thermal depolymerization (using heat and pressure to turn turkey guts into oil) when the story is about plasma gasification (using an electrical arc to turn waste into a mix of gases, mainly hydrogen and carbon monoxide).
Skepticism is important, but more important is to know what you are doubting. - mrgeekguy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+9Not that I'm trying to stereotype garbage haulers, but I think the mob has a new avenue for body disposal!
- nayr, on 10/12/2007, -1/+10It's not free; It's stored in the form of mass (garbage).
- steelmaverick, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7We are now one step closer to the reality portrayed in the film Back to the Future. Now, where's my Mr. Fusion?
- BeefBaron, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8Mr LaForge, we need those plasma inductors installed!
- Matteos, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6"...even secured $5,000,000 to build a pilot facility, but only runs at 10% capacity and nothing has been heard from them since mid 2006."
Maybe they tore a hole in the space time continuum. - CurtHowland, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7What is important is not how thermal depolymerization and electro-gasification might be confused, what is really neat is that both exist.
Organic waste => light sweet crude
Inorganic/toxic waste => non-toxic component elements
What's left? Nothing but atomic waste, which can be re-processesed into more fuel and some few short-lived isotopes very useful for medical science.
Why aren't the Greens going ga-ga over this and demanding these technologies be wide-open and public domain ASAP?
Maybe because then they wouldn't have so much to complain about? - ikillpeoplexx, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4wow never mind, read the source article. it actually feeds the power grid after starting up.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Yeah...but who'd want to eat Uranus?
>.> - Spinel, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Gasification technology has been around for quite some time. Any carbon-value feedstock can be converted to a hydrogen-rich syngas, with the concentration of hydrogen (i.e. the energy content of the gas) varied by the process conditions (temperature, pressure, reaction time, etc) and reactant chemistry. Most of these processes are very low in pollution as well, compared to conventional coal-fired power plants.
Over the past year, I've worked with a company in Canada to build a commercial scale unit. Startup is scheduled for this Spring. It's a brilliant business model... the city pays the company to take the municipal waste, and the company in turn produces electricity by burning the product syngas in low-BTU gas generators and sells it onto the grid. This companies website is linked below.
http://www.plascoenergygroup.com/ - Flashman, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Yep, it's vaporware. Hydrogen and carbon monoxide vapor.
- kurtu5, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Uh I think he has a 100KW plant in .jp. I met the prof over here at Ga Tech once and he gave me a sample of the vitrified glass. He said there was a small pilot plant in japan that was not only breaking even, but making a PROFIT.
- nomadxx7, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3How does the plasma not burn through the stainless steel tube its in while it's working?
- BobRobert, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4I was interested to read about 'similar to the the big bang, only in reverse'. It took a long time for the early universe to cool down enough to allow anything like plasma to even form (protons, neutrons). As for 'nothing from something', matter is not turned into energy - it is merely large, complex molecules being broken down into simpler forms. I do wish these pop-science writers had at least a basic understanding of the copy they are hyping.
Regards, Bob - yuravian, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3@theWrkncacnter:
It isn't the cost of development, it's the fact that this could be a cheap, clean energy source in the future. Just because running an oil based energy system is (currently) cheaper doesn't make it better, and what happens once we run out of oil or utterly decimate the biosphere? - kristopher, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3A means of genocide. Just imagine if Hitler had a few of these machines. Vaporizing people and only their basic elements would remain. No ash, smoke.. Or any of the other tale tell signs and fuel cost to keep up such heat. Using the steam to heat the buildings, the excess hydrogen that wasn't used to power the machine, can be used for whatever purposes he wanted. All that and the machine would be self sufficient. All is needed is more people and since the whole point was genocide, there is enough of that fuel to go around. Also they could use it for trash as well.
I just hope this never gets turned into a weapon. - Xinareiaz, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3After reading the pop-sci article it looks like a major city could buy one of these and assuming that they could equal maintenance costs with the revenue from selling the power and hydrogen, and working off of the fact that it costs $35 bucks a ton to dump trash....A city could pay it off in 9 years. Sounds like a worthwhile investment to me!
- CurtHowland, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Watch for "How William Shatner Changed The World". Lots of fun.
- willmeister, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Is anyone else here concerned about heavy metals becoming incorporated into our bathroom tiles? If you throw in mercury, which does end up in the garbage, wouldn't that show up in the output?
- IamZed, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3If only ancient cultures had these. Then we wouldn't have all that crap buried all over the place that keeps getting in our way.
- PacoBell, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3From this company (http://www.alentecinc.com/renewable.htm):
"The molten material that accumulates in the bottom of the processing chamber can be periodically tapped into molds or into a water tank and recovered as a vitreous solid that is non-leachable and can be used as a construction aggregate. Any metal material can be tapped into molds and recycled." - vikingcoder, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2A more complete explanation of How It Works:
http://www.startech.net/plasma.html
http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:StarTech_Environmental_Corp
They presently have three 5 ton/day installations in operation, with a number of other plants in various stages of implementation. A 200 ton/day plant being built by Startech in Panama will be the largest such plant in the world, and will convert ordinary garbage into hydrogen that can be used in fuel cells to generate electricity or directly as a fuel for combustion. The Panama plant is expected to be operational in 2008.
Efficiency:
* Electricity-to-fuel efficiency: 4.5-fold
* Waste-to-fuel Conversion efficiency: 73% - dreamlayers, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2On page 5 of the Popsci article some concerns are listed. The one that bothers me is “That obsidian-like slag contains toxic heavy metals and breaks down when exposed to water,”. This could make the slag toxic waste rather than a potentially useful building material.
Oh, BTW the Popsci article was submitted separately: http://digg.com/environment/The_Prophet_of_Garbage - Shad0wSP, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3"hey, who took my garbage!?!?!"
-my neighbors - mos6507, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2The big question is what those obsidian-like spheres are really made of and how safe and useful they are vs. traditional recycling. It sounds like they have mercury and lead and other things you wouldn't want in building materials. They are just shoving generic trash in there rather than separating it out. It seems to me it would be more useful to recycle plastic into plastic, glass into glass, and paper into paper, and reserve this process for the rest.
- moocow1452, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2Mr. Fusion, Mr. Fusion for all of you power needs,
Mr. Fusion, Mr. Fusion, it will fuel your home with ease.
What, it needs a jingle for when it becomes commercially available. - Leo21k, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1When are they going to invent the Replicators from Star Trek? I'm looking forward to that device.
- CurtHowland, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1It would be interesting to know why rational, sceptical comments get modded down.
- BackwardsPanda, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Ive been watching star trek tech (Not sure if thats even the name) on the history channel all night.
- ncapone, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I can't imagine this is far from being made into a weapon of some sort.
- JavertHolmes, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3To johndi: Good point. I stand corrected! Sometimes my cynical side overtakes me.
- dacheetah, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1It may have been submitted, but it failed to make it to the front page.
(But then, I wouldn't expect "The Prophet of Garbage" to make the front page.) - monkeyman08854, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1
To quote Galaxy Quest
Brandon Wheeger: I just wanted to tell you that I thought a lot about what you said.
Jason Nesmith: It's okay, now listen...
Brandon Wheeger: But I want you to know that I'm not a complete brain case, okay? I understand completely that it's just a TV show. I know there's no beryllium sphere...
Jason Nesmith: Hold it.
Brandon Wheeger: no digital conveyor, no ship...
Jason Nesmith: Stop for a second, stop. It's all real.
Brandon Wheeger: Oh my God, I knew it. I knew it! I knew it!
(quote from imdb) - Flashman, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1"Syngas is people!"
- villium, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I love the armchair scientists on this site whom immediately discount the validity of an article based on their superior knowledge of the universe and without the need of a schematic. You truly are amazing!
- Archailect, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Also check out
http://jlnlabs.imars.com/bingofuel/html/aquagen.htm
http://www.magnegas.com/ - dahifi, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Metafilter had a post linking to this yesterday as well. Interesting comments from them.
http://www.metafilter.com/58716/Converting-Garbage-into-Energy - robcprice, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1The popsci article on which this thread is based states that a plant that can convert 2000 tons a day will cost $250 million. The Environmental News Network reported last week [http://www.envirolink.org/external.html?itemid=200702151841580.132094] that Asian cities will produce 1.8 millions tons of trash a day by 2025. Hmmmm, my BOTE calculation comes out at $225 billion for plasma converters, just for Asian cities. Maybe it would be easier to just reduce the wasteful packaging found on all goods? $100 billion here, $100 billion there, pretty soon you're talking some real money! It may be that the unit of money needed to take care of the unnecessary and wasteful trash we produce needs a new descriptor. How about an Iraq? 1 Iraq = 1 trillion dollars. That way, we can say that the plasma converters for Asian waste in 2025 will cost a mere 1/4 of an Iraq.
- dwhitbeck, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0It would be great if it could produce even enough fuel to power itself. I still think the garbage will need to be sorted to eliminate heavy metals.
- thesledman, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0I read this in popsi a few days ago. I happen to live in St. Lucie County FL, One of the places mentioned in the article as receiving a $450 million facility. I'm thrilled! Our dumps are a huge eyesore and our waste management costs doubled this year. So here to hoping this works and doesn't release dark matter destroying all life as we know it.
- litt8899, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0If this is a truly legitimate way of disposing of waste and the worries about the toxicity of the whole process are unfounded and do not pan out as the critics in this article have suggested then I believe this is as close as we will ever get to an Infinity machine, and i don't mean that in the actual sense of a true infinity machine that runs on nothing but it's own energy but on the idea that we as a species will probably never run out of waste and will always need energy, since this machine gets rid of our waste and uses the energy to not only continue running itself but to supply the species with energy to use in other endeavors. The other obvious source of such energy for the species is the sun itself. I will be following this closely in the future and maybe someday we will refer to it as nonchalantly as we now refer to this mans garbage compactors.
- alky, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0That sentence made me sad. The big bang theory comes AFTER 'something from nothing.'
- scrag10, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1Can you eat the product? It would be like eating the Universe.
- edmcguirk, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0The Greens are against this stuff because they are not pro environment, they are anti technology.
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