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67 Comments
- gotamd, on 10/12/2007, -1/+22This article is all fluff and no substance. They don't tell you what kind of technology the Russians have developed to prevent contamination, only that there are fears that it isn't good enough. You can't form an opinion on smoke and mirrors like this.
Dugg, however, for the cool scientific discoveries that it might bring. - longman2g, on 10/12/2007, -4/+20Nobody is going to usurp your claim on the lake, we just want to be sure that you don't screw it up.
- screensnot, on 10/12/2007, -6/+20Russia is not communist anymore.
- Salmonax, on 10/12/2007, -1/+14You might note that the sole voice of dissent quoted in the article is a British guy, not an American.
- screensnot, on 10/12/2007, -1/+10Everyone is worried about contaminating the lake. But I worry that the lake may contaminate us!
What if there are Crab People down there! - gotamd, on 10/12/2007, -1/+9Russia isn't tryint to claim the lake though as far as I know. They're doing it in international territory where the article says that anybody can do this kind of thing as long as they share their findings.
- Tyrel, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6I wouldn't be sure that contamination isn't a real issue. When Europeans came to the "New World" and started interacting with the native civilizations there, millions of natives died of diseases which Europeans had become somewhat immune to, but the natives had never encountered. This doesn't just happen with humans. The introduction of a foreign biological entity into any ecosystem is likely to destabilize it significantly.
If this "lake" has been separate for millions of years, the likelyhood of a modern bacterium being able to destroy massive amounts of life down there (assuming it exists) is huge. Ideally we'd want to maintain the life down there so we can study it... it would teach us a lot about evolution and life in general.
Plus, if life has survived down there so well... maybe it could survive on Europa. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7Better it be Russian scientists than some Poland Spring wanna be who will sell bottles of it to America's elite for 10 bucks a pop.
- JStrider, on 10/12/2007, -2/+8they want to wait until we have better technology for this... how do we determine that we have the right technology... the future will always bring something better... so you can wait for new technology forever
- ThePhilomath, on 10/12/2007, -2/+8"Crab people, crab people, taste like crab, talk like people."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crab_People
Know Thine Enemy. - longman2g, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5we just want to make sure the methods which we use to get the the water don't screw it up.
How does it benefit anyone if its contaminated, but we saw it? - larowebr, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5So the lake is kept in a liquid state by the immense pressure from the ice above. And Russian scientists are drilling a pinhole to it. So I predict when they get within inches of the lake, the immensly pressurized water is going to rocket up the long hole, blowing out the drill bit, showering the work site in water (nothing hurt except all the electrical equipment) and maybe even re-freeze before the pressure completely equalizes, resealing the hole and making them start all over again.
- bluekangaroo, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4After sucessfully drilling into Lake Vostok with "minimal' contamination, the Russian team have begun to study the Mona Lisa using paint thinner to remove the paint one layer at a time.
“The unpainting will continue,” said Valery Lukin, head of the Russian Mona Lisa project. “We are not violating any rules. If our activities don’t suit people, what can I say? Some people don’t like (what we are doing) because it is not them doing it.” - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3larowebr: ahahaha!!! I never thought of that! I literally laughed for 15 minutes straight. I mean, damn, it could happen if they're not careful...certainly it's something to think about.
- tweaker, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3The contamination issue is a real one. To prevent the ice hole from freezing over during the last few years, it's been pumped full of freon and oil. The Americans stopped drilling because they want to clean out the hole before they drill out the last couple hundred feet.
The last I read, the Russians aren't cleaning the hole out, and have stated that back pressure from the underground lake will prevent the oil and garbage from draining down into the hole. This IS a major issue of concern. There's absolutely no reason to rush into this without taking some caution--there's only one chance to do it right. Do you really want to have a freagin oil spill in the last pure lake on earth, one which has been isolated for several million years, and has god knows what sort of ecosystem in it? - Salmonax, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3My money's on there being a large black monolith down there emanating an eerie choral cacophony. Star child, here we come!
- chrisc2, on 10/12/2007, -11/+14Pay no mind to Techknowpagan's remarks. He goes from thread to thread thinking he's some hard-assed shock jock, while, in the meantime, he's no doubt a middle-aged loser sitting in his parent's basement, shower-less over the past 72 hours, with a stupid smirk on his greasy face, hoping that someone, anyone out there would give even the smallest ***** what he thinks.
- Jammerdelray, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3"MOSCOW - Hidden about 2.5 miles beneath the ice near the South Pole lies a lake that scientists believe represents a lost world, harboring organisms sealed off from the rest of the planet for millions of years."
Great, more unheard of diseases possibly coming out of this. - ThePhilomath, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2There's microbes and even kinds of shrimp etc. that live so deep in the ocean that there's no light, in fact there's many species (and there would be similar levels of oxygen under the ice as well). It will be especially plausible if there's thermal vents nearby.
- Doggpound, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3But I still got paid so who cares.
This is very interesting though. Just imagine if they find some lost species. - cubbieco, on 10/12/2007, -10/+12Sounds exciting. I also believe that the "contamination" is just some political BS.
- RyeBrye, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4I think it's an ancient alien temple and once they poke through they will all be anhiallated...
Of course, in all seriousness - I doubt any macroscopic organisms live in a lake that likely has no oxygen and receives no sunlight. It's probably all funky little micobes. - locojones, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2While I think Rich's comments are completely assanine, there is a point that could be gleaned from it. Instead of experimenting with an unproven technique on Lake Vostok, why not try your techniques on underground antarctic lakes of lesser significance? That way you can test and refine the techniques until you're sure no contamination of the underground water will occur.
- teamparadox, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4"“Now this time we are going to be first. So what? We just got luckier, that’s all ... It’s all been turned into politics. Some people don’t like (what we are doing) because it is not them doing it.”"
He's right, drilling a hole in the Ice has always been America's ultimate goal! - Godric, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2I'm jealous of Russia's ice hole.
Assuming there is anything living in Vostok, the environment is probably so specialized that organisms from the surface will have no chance to gain a foothold. Not only would the environment be totally hostile, but the organisms present would crowd out any invader thanks to their home-court evolutionary advantage. - sotloo, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Lake Vostok's magnetic anomaly
http://www.enterprisemission.com/antarctica.htm
http://www.cyberspaceorbit.com/antmag.html - longman2g, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2“Now this time we are going to be first. So what? We just got luckier..."
Not his claim on owning the lake, his claim on getting to the lake first. - geminitojanus, on 10/12/2007, -3/+4Unda da sea. Unda da seeaaa. It's where it happen'd to me, it's where it gets hotta, unda da wata, unda da seeaaaa.
Anywho, back on topic. Go for it Ruskies. The US aren't the only ones who get to do good science, there's a whole world under their to learn from. I worry about contamination too, but I think the Russians are as well, and will do their best to preserve the environment and do good science.
It's not like they're drilling for petrol or anything... - RichPowers, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3"Better it be Russian scientists than some Poland Spring wanna be who will sell bottles of it to America's elite for 10 bucks a pop."
rofl
I'm very curious about secrets this lake holds. Extremophiles have been found in stranger places...
The Russian's may have some brilliant engineers and scientists, but when I think of "Russian," safety, precaution, and cleanliness (speaking of engineering endeavors) don't come to mind. - coffeegeek, on 10/12/2007, -7/+8What difference does it make...Eventually someone's going to pee in it and it'll all be over anyway.
- tweaker, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Because Russia is refusing to give a damn about the concerns of other scientists. That's why this is such a big issue. They don't want any oversight.
- capn_caveman, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Two words: Jimmy Hoffa.
- bradford, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2why don't countries agree to let Russia be the first to drill the lake? In compromise Russia drilling techniques must first meet the approval of other interested countries before the "seal" is broken. Seems like a simple solution...
- joeljkp, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Political BS? What the...?
They're worried about outside microbes and bacteria and matter getting into this pristine lake through the whole they're drilling. I'd say it's a pretty big concern, and they should be worried to hell about it. - harrisbradley, on 10/12/2007, -3/+4Russia has just made an agreement to peacefully share the lake with Germany 50/50 as long as Germany promises not to vater-ski'en on their zide of zee lake.
- vertigoblue, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3I for one, welcome our new Lake Vostok overlords...
- Osjpr, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I wouldn't trust Russians to go in without damaging the harmony and ecosystem. They have third world environmental standards. Their nuclear reactor broke and contaminated an environment, their nuclear sub broke and contaminated an environment..... And there is plenty of evidence besides that environments can be damaged by ignorant and well-meaning humans. Two have been mentioned in previous comments: 1. When Europeans brought viruses to the New World and wiped out countless tribes of people 2. Cane toads introduced in Australia have become a plague that has endangered many, many local native species
- ctheory, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2Can I get some ice for my scotch? Jesus.
Either way, that's a really cool read. I was confused by the headline, didn't have a clue about the lake, but after reading it...good stuff. - regedit2D, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2I love how they're in it to be the first to ruin a lost world. I wonder who will be first to destroy the ozone?
- szelij, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1The main concern here is contamination...you can't guarantee that it won't happen but in the interests of science i feel that the drilling should go ahead. Who knows when next we might be able to? Globally our earth is changing, if not now then when?
The advancement of science cannot wait until the end of the world. - ThePhilomath, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1That's not true at all: case in point, the introduction of a certain frog species to Australia. There hasn't been as much competition in the lake, and therefore they may not be able to compete with outsiders and especially against disease.
- TheGalacticFork, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1Anyone seen the movie 'Appleseed'? Maybe the lake hides the Appleseed and the whole process of human evolution will start over.
Digg for interesting situation. - jguerry, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2i'm gonna be the first to blow up the sun for science.
- jguerry, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2if we are the first to pollute everything, at least it wasn't (as far as i'm aware of) something that hasn't seen civilization for "millions of years" as the article indicates.
i don't like Mr. Lukin's justification at all, he sounds like a total dick. "The drilling will continue, we are not violating any rules. If our activities don%u2019t suit people, what can I say?%u201D There aren't enough rules to govern ALL stupid decisions. of course there isn't a rule for your ignorance and stupidity Mr. Lukin.
"It's like this: who was the first to fly to the moon? The Soviet Union or the United States? That time the Americans won and we halted our lunar program." we were wearing space suits dude, to preserve the human body and earth back home and to preserve the state of the moon. the russians didn't have to halt their lunar program...i guess they should stop researching other american firsts as well!
Someone get a petition going! I'd sign in a heartbeat. there is no reason to continue haphazardly to find scientific data of the past. it's not like it's going to save the atmosphere or lives. slow down dude! - sam10685, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1whatever they find down there is going to come up here and completely wipe out life on this planet.
- jpowell180, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0screenshot wrote: "Russia is not communist anymore."
And yet, all the old former "communists" still maintain control over Russia, and they still have thousands of nuclear warheads pointed at America.
Check this site out: www.jrnyquist.com - jguerry, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Sotloo, the www.enterprisemission.com/antarctica.htm link was a good read, thanks.
wow, i hope contamination concerns are taken serioiusly now. - jguerry, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0i don't think it would take the end of the world to accomplish a safer way to not disturb anything below...
jeez, i think were' only talking at most 5 years. if something big and bad happens between now and then, then it won't even matter about the past cause our goal will be preserving/preventing the future events. jeesh. - mrjeff3000, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Let's get those missiles ready to destroy the universe!
- AKron, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1Are we absolutely sure we haven't contaminated the planet Mars? If so, what country did that?
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