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Researchers solve fuel-cell membrane structure conundrum

physorg.com — Fuel-cell cars are reaching commercial viability in today ’s increasingly eco-conscious society, but despite their promise, even scientists have struggled to explain just how the fuel-cell’s central component – the proton

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ares041, on 12/12/2007, -1/+16anything to help get us off this crack-like oil addiction is good news to me
- Urusai, on 12/12/2007, -0/+6And where's the hydrogen going to come from? If you say "water", then where's the energy to crack the water coming from? Hydrogen is just a means of conveying energy, not a primary source. Ultimately, all hydrogen proposals use electricity, which has to be generated in some fashion. Its proponents will claim hydroelectric, solar, or some other green source of power, but we don't need hydrogen to avail ourselves of these sources. Hydrogen powered cars are really just electric cars with a hydrogen battery. It seems to me that straight electric would be more efficient, if we get the electricity storage up to snuff.
  - Muncher, on 12/12/2007, -0/+4Nuclear energy? I know it's a touchy subject, but it's clean (as long as things are contained) and very efficient.
  - senatorpjt, on 12/12/2007, -0/+3Hydrogen is basically a battery. It's very easy to make (from water) given an input of energy. The difference is that a car can only be realistically designed to use a very specific energy source, but plants can be made to generate energy from a variety of sources to produce hydrogen.
  - Mockylock, on 12/12/2007, -1/+1I think it's more along the lines of running hybrid, rather than straight hydrogen. As the prius and others use gasoline and electricity, one could theoretically help create hydrogen that would, in turn, produce a bit more power to save up to store or save juice.
    You're going to lose more energy by doing so, due to it taking quite a bit of power to make the split, but the more energy created from once source (hydrogen or electricity), the better.
    - rspeed, on 12/12/2007, -1/+1No, pure hydrogen. The energy loss is insignificant compared to the inefficiencies and limited supply of oil.
- EntangledPhysx, on 12/12/2007, -0/+2Why hydrogen is seen as a green alternative, is for the same reason battery-powered cars are. Its just another way of storing this energy, and have the electric motors (high efficiency) run the vehicle, instead of a low-efficiency gas engine that is releasing exhaust that is more pulluted that that coming from a power plant (which will give the energy to create the hydrogen). That is just one example of many possibilities. I think I've heard about using living organisms to produce hydrogen gas, not sure though. But you can see the implications.
bonoti, on 12/12/2007, -8/+1How is this important? All this guy has done is propose a structure for a material which already exists. There no practical advance here - just an interesting theoretical one.
- L_Hospital, on 12/12/2007, -1/+5"And armed with that information, scientists should be able to build similar fuel-cell membrane materials that are less expensive or have different properties, such as higher operating temperatures. "
  - Narasil, on 12/12/2007, -0/+1All well and good but the guy does have a point, this is hardly earth shattering. Not to mention that fuel cells produce the most efficient green house gas of all...water.
DigitAl56K, on 12/12/2007, -8/+3While they might have solved a fuel-cell membrane structure conundrum, I'd love to seem them solve a bilinear protozoic quantum decombobulating harmonic resonating nueron displacement envelopment!
- rspeed, on 12/12/2007, -0/+1Man, wouldn't we all?
latrosicarius, on 12/12/2007, -1/+6Fuel cells have been coming "next year" for more than a decade.
- reservoirdog, on 12/12/2007, -0/+2They have been Duke Nukemed.
- rspeed, on 12/12/2007, -0/+1Fuel cells have been around for well longer than a decade.
shanghainobody, on 12/12/2007, -9/+1and this is important because...........
Felix57, on 12/12/2007, -0/+3this doesn't help the biggest supporters are companies like shell. electric is still the best option in terms of efficiency and not being wallet raped
chrisfry, on 12/12/2007, -0/+1Interesting article, the second half of it lost me, but if we are a step closer to an alternative fuel source for cars then bravo.
ingoldsby, on 12/12/2007, -1/+3Hydrogen is never going to be a viable fuel source in my opinion. There are too many unsolved problems with a large scale hydrogen nation. Everything from clean hydrogen generation, to distribution, to storage has it's share of breakthroughs that need to happen before it's viable. It's a bit like a fusion reactor - great in theory but difficult if not impossible to roll out.

I personally feel that clean(er) electricity and batteries will be the next step that actually takes hold in the real market place.
- EntangledPhysx, on 12/12/2007, -0/+1Their could be a radical change in how we refuel our cars. Such as a home-based hydrogren refueling place (slowly creates hydrogen at home, then you can fill up your car when you need to). That would be easier than having to install a hydrogen-economy backbone into the country (like with gasoline). Small steps. But then again, we still don't have flying cars (that are viable).
- senatorpjt, on 12/12/2007, -1/+1Maybe if people weren't so afraid of having a hydrogen tank in their car exploding. It's really not that big of a deal.
  - EntangledPhysx, on 12/12/2007, -0/+1I'm not sure if your being sarcastic... but this is a real problem facing hydrogen fuel cell cars. There are multiple tank designs to try and minimize the danger, in case of a car accident.
    - senatorpjt, on 12/21/2007, -0/+1I am being sarcastic. Hydrogen tanks aren't nearly as dangerous as they're made out to be.
      Anyone who owns a gas grill has driven with a propane cylinder in the car, which is just as bad.
  - ingoldsby, on 12/12/2007, -0/+1Exploding tanks is one problem, but there is also the fact that we have no way of storing hydrogen in the car for extended periods. As it is, the tanks bleed off hydrogen as they warm, and there is no solution to it.
    
    So forget about parking your car at the airport and driving it home after your trip, your tank will be empty if it's of any decent length.
chijim70, on 12/12/2007, -1/+4and still the air car is getting no props... http://www.theaircar.com/
- EntangledPhysx, on 12/12/2007, -1/+1air is for Super Soaker's. =P
  - rspeed, on 12/12/2007, -0/+1Man, I've seen three comments by you and each one has serious grammatical errors.
ERIK1960, on 12/12/2007, -0/+1Great article
frosted, on 12/12/2007, -0/+0Pollutes more to MAKE the hydrogen then run the regular gas car.
Do your research, hydrogen is about infrastructure. He who owns the infrastructure and delivery systems makes the money. Again, big oil wants this because the plants used to make the hydrogen will use OIL to produce it!
- skiddles, on 12/12/2007, -0/+0That may be why Big Oil is interested, but there was a very interesting nugget of information in the article. That fuel cells work in reverse, converting water to hydrogen and oxygen. In the simplest terms, that means that you can connect a faucet and an electricity source ( take your pick, nuclear, wind, solar... ) to a fuel cell and you can generate your own hydrogen.
diggngolf, on 12/12/2007, -0/+0It's good to see that they actually do something more than farm corn and raise pigs in Iowa.
mhmdkhamis, on 02/01/2008, -0/+0Hydrogen is never going to be a viable fuel source in my opinion. There are too many unsolved problems with a large scale hydrogen nation. Everything from clean hydrogen generation, to distribution, to storage has it's share of breakthroughs that need to happen before it's viable. It's a bit like a fusion reactor - great in theory but difficult if not impossible to roll out.
http://www.directory.paramegsoft.com/
I personally feel that clean(er) electricity and batteries will be the next step that actually takes hold in the real market place.
http://www.paramegsoft.com/forum/
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Researchers solve fuel-cell membrane structure conundrum

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