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48 Comments
- mmijatov, on 11/05/2009, -0/+38Surely if you have 0 legs, now having 2 prosthetic ones would enhance your speed.
- untitlednet, on 11/05/2009, -0/+21Yet.
- rob132, on 11/05/2009, -0/+12It would, and don't call me Surely.
- matiano9, on 11/05/2009, -0/+9Questions:
Where on the leg were the participants amputated? Above knee, through knee or below knee, it makes a big difference.
Are they saying that this data means Pistorias should be allowed to run? He is a double amputee so very different.
Do they know what percentage of the energy expended contacting the ground is utilised by the prosthetic limb VS a natural limb? - Elsewhere42, on 11/05/2009, -1/+9Glad they told me before I chopped off my legs!
- bobbi21, on 11/05/2009, -1/+9This only analyzed ppl with 1 prosthetic and 1 biological leg. So of course the legs would have to be similar in stride and energy output etc otherwise u'd have a very uneven gait.
If you had 2 prosthetic legs (I believe they use a whole different kind of prosthetic) then the outcomes should be much different. Someone should provide an article cus I think they are. - lead2thehead, on 11/05/2009, -3/+11I think that having legs that weigh 4 ounces and are shaped like giant leaf springs would give you a HUGE advantage.
- tyrulz, on 11/05/2009, -1/+5i have a hard time trusting these "experts"
- justaboutdead, on 11/05/2009, -1/+5but there is some missing muscle too.
- Snoogs, on 11/05/2009, -0/+3The article is saying of course you can design a mechanical leg superior to a human leg in ability... The question is- can we design a leg to be parallel to the abilities you'd expect in a leg...
I think without the muscles demanding oxygen and resources, this still isn't a fair comparison... sorry, cripples. - ericcc, on 11/05/2009, -0/+3This article mentions that the study looked at "passive running-specific prosthesis". Are these the ones in question in international competition. As I recall the issue was these incredibly expensive ones that basically act as a spring and exert more usable energy coming off the ground than a human leg would.
- doublsh0t, on 11/05/2009, -3/+5*sigh* do you really think MIT would have overlooked those generalized points when producing a scientific research analysis of possible advantages? Of course not. Taking those factors you mentioned into account, it appears, still, that there is not a advantage, much less a "HUGE" one. One of their many conclusions so far: "Unilateral amputee sprinters simply cannot strike the ground as hard and fast with their prosthetic leg as compared to their biological leg, a clear disadvantage for achieving top sprinting speeds."
- MrSteamTank, on 11/05/2009, -0/+2The only downside is that you're missing the calf muscle altogether. Sure the prosthetic leg has a better string effect than your ankle but I don't know how much you're missing out by not having a calf muscle.
- chang3, on 11/05/2009, -0/+2Poor little tink tink.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_qlNEmpxQxI - digitalArtform, on 11/05/2009, -0/+2What about the ones with the kangaroo spring design?
http://www.lextopia.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/03 ...
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3412/3265476671_d2d ...
Aimee Mullins - JoeDiggsIt, on 11/05/2009, -0/+2Speaking as an above knee amputee (one leg) who has ran competitively (with other amputees) AND played various high school sports, the legs do not give any sort of advantage for the basic reasons a non-amputee would not consider. It is easy to look at the physiological engineering of it all, but even with the best athletes, there in an inherent discomfort and lack of coordination all amputees have compared to a normal runner. Also, turning in the Cheetah is literally hell because they don't have any support, thus anyone running any distance longer than the 100m is instantly less advantaged.
- steviesteveo, on 11/05/2009, -0/+2I think you need to factor in the negative effects of not having two full human legs into that, with the muscles and so on. The idea of a prosthetic is just to make up for missing your leg and this seems to show that the current state of the art models are reaching the point where they don't hold you back like the older models do.
- POWRDIGGER, on 11/05/2009, -1/+3Im in class at the moment and laughed out loud and got 3 stares...thank you
- digitalArtform, on 11/05/2009, -0/+2Oh god. Are you kidding me? I barely have time to comment mindlessly, much less RTA
Plus I mainly just wanted an excuse to post a photo of Aimee Mullins. Did you know she has different legs and chooses how tall she wants to be when she goes out at night? That's hot.
http://www.google.com/#hl=en&source=hp&q=a ...
And she has these awesome hand carved ones?
http://dailyartmuse.com/2009/03/16/aimee-mullins-w ... - JoeDiggsIt, on 11/05/2009, -0/+2You're an absolute idiot. Do you think that they levitate? They are striking the inside of the socket with their remaining limb, and in most amputees cases can cause pain unless they have all of their bone, i.e. all of the tibia or femur. You can easily break your limb while running if you fall hard, since your leg is inside of a carbon fiber casing, and the rest of your body is not. There is muscle pain, aches, just like everyone else, AND they do happen to use far more oxygen than the average runner.
- doublsh0t, on 11/05/2009, -0/+1RTA, yes it says they specifically took into account the "J-shaped, high-performance Cheetah Flex-Foot prostheses" in their analysis.
- NoTiG, on 11/05/2009, -0/+1They just did a study I read on digg the other day about how despite having a mechanical disadvantage..... most pro runners have long toes.. and shortened heels.
- nepidae, on 11/05/2009, -0/+1Sweet, so if my foot gets cut off then I still will be able to run the same speed with or without a prostheses?
Anyway, sports that this would be an issue for are about perfection in the human body, not human engineering. - steviesteveo, on 11/05/2009, -0/+1They examined people who use the leaf spring prosthetics. People with two prosthetic legs just use two of them.
I think it surely must affect the performance but how would you test that? You'd have to measure someone with 2 legs and someone with no legs and try to work out why they're different. What they've done is check the forces applied by someone's false leg and then checked the forces applied with the same person's real leg. It's to try and keep the variables involved down a little. - TsuruchiBrian, on 11/05/2009, -0/+1Now that we know prosthetics don't provide an advantage to runners, someone should just make a prosthetic bicycle, and paint some legs on the wheels.
- mksmothers, on 11/05/2009, -0/+1Not only does it enhance their running, it actually ALLOWS them to run.
- lead2thehead, on 11/05/2009, -1/+2It has to be a lot less. The ones they make for competition are MUCH lighter than an actual leg.
- abk0110, on 11/05/2009, -0/+1What are you doing here? I thought Dexter killed you in the first season?
- noahgelman, on 11/05/2009, -0/+1They're lighter, they don't need to be fueled with oxygen, can't get tired and ache. There are a couple advantages.
- srodolff, on 11/05/2009, -0/+1Fail, just ask Ironman.
- TsuruchiBrian, on 11/05/2009, -1/+2I would guess that your remaining muscles would have to become bigger to compensate for lack of muscles in the prosthetic. Using energy like this will probably be less efficient also.
Having less weight does not always mean you are faster. A horse can run much faster than a human and weighs much more. How that added weight adds to your speed is what is important. I suspect your legs are an overall benefit to your running speed given their weight. - emjaymj, on 11/05/2009, -0/+1The article seems to be talking about sprinters here, so it's not really an issue. Marathon runners, on the other hand, would probably have an unfair advantage.
- Culyt, on 11/05/2009, -0/+1Maybe not now, but in the future it won't necessarily be the same.
For example, new nanotechnology based material, much lighter and springier. - botchedabortion, on 11/06/2009, -0/+1Except that they are lighter and that machines don't get tired.
- davewashere, on 11/05/2009, -0/+1Wait, so they could run just as fast on the stubs?
- SavageIndustrie, on 11/05/2009, -0/+1I'm pretty sure a leg or two gives you quite the weight advantage. I bet if 30% of my mass was carbon fiber or titanium that I would run faster too.
Could I be a scientist for MIT? It seems pretty easy. - darthjure, on 11/06/2009, -0/+1Depends on the prosthetic. Even if it's not possible now, it could be. What if there were prosthetic limbs that let people take 20-30 foot strides?
- LarkStew, on 11/05/2009, -0/+1There was an article about how Usain Bolt can run so fast, and it said it's not really his height but because he has a bigger stride angle for his legs than normal. Which might explain why an amputee with an artificial leg would probably have no advantage because their stride angle wouldn't change. Unless they did lots of flexibility exercises. But anyone can do that.
- TapTapper, on 11/06/2009, -0/+1Hey F*ckhead. Of course amputees have pain and dangers at their sockets. One of my friends is an amputee.
BUT there's a difference between pain/ fractures / etc in the REMAINING bones and joints and pain/ fractures / etc in the ORIGINAL equipment. 50 joints vs 3. 100 tendons vs 20, or 0. How many bones in the foot? How many bones below the knee? the Hip? HOW MANY TENDONS YANKING ON BONES TAKING STRESS AND CAUSING PAIN IN JOINTS THAT OTHERS DON'T HAVE ANYMORE??
It's an engineering issue you idiot. More joins = more possible failure points. Every single little fiber or chip of bone can cause agony. Torturers know that, Why don't you? There are more ways to cause pain on a person with all of their limbs. - Animan351, on 11/06/2009, -0/+1well, would you like me to talk about how you're argument is flawed by a horse having four legs and not two, or by talking about how small and lightweight the bottom half of a horse's legs are and that all of their muscle that allow them to run fast is in the upper portion? You know, like a humans.
- Animan351, on 11/06/2009, -0/+1to further this argument, if they can't improve speed or power like this BS article says, then why can these people jump so much higher than normal on pogo-stilts whe their calves and feet are in a locked (and therefore unusable) position? There are better vids, but I found this one first.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LyDxTMYuxFg&fea ... - JoeDiggsIt, on 11/06/2009, -0/+1Hey bro, I'm an amputee, in fact the exact kind they examined in this article, and I used to run track and still play sports. The sheer number of bones in the legs doesn't necessarily mean they will get injured. I suppose I didn't need to call you an idiot, but hey, I get pissed when people even try and compare not being an amputee with being an amputee, and there are a considerable number of idiots who have posted on this story.
- digitalArtform, on 11/05/2009, -1/+1:o
:D - veriix, on 11/05/2009, -1/+1God dammit, too late!
- LordSkywalker, on 11/05/2009, -1/+1Doesn't increase speed? That's obvious. I'd like to know how if affects endurance.
- Animan351, on 11/05/2009, -1/+1yeah. Let me lose 30 lbs off my legs and have less "body" that my blood and lungs have to supply oxygen and nutrients too and I'd bet I'll run faster as well.
- TapTapper, on 11/05/2009, -1/+1They also don't get shin splints and blisters and stress fractures and blood clots. don't need to be iced down or heated up. the lack of pain and injury is a HUGE advantage
- lead2thehead, on 11/05/2009, -3/+3Anybody who begins their post with *sigh* is a condescending douche bag.
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