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243 Comments
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -15/+91Look at all the people replying here saying "your a moron".
It's YOU ARE or YOU'RE, morons!
I mean, come on. If you're going to insult people at least be credible about it! :) - carpespasm, on 10/12/2007, -3/+55red blood cells eject their nucleus, and thus don't have DNA, like these mystery cells. thus the boconcave shape
- quexal, on 10/12/2007, -2/+51Wow, amazing instantaneous conclusions here at digg. Lets just ignore the fact that the guy has simply published a scientific paper on the work he has been conducting. In the paper (if you read it) he is simply presenting the facts, and is making suggestions as to a potential hypothesis. This paper will be reviewed by his peers in the scientific community throughout the world through scrutinizing his data and conclusions. In the end, he may be right, or he may be wrong, it remains to be seen. Many people who have devoted their entire lives to studying related fields have yet to have their say. However, simply making a sweeping claim such as "these are red blood cells" just because they look similar carries no weight whatsoever.
It's called the scientific method, and it works... quite well actually! - monolith, on 10/12/2007, -16/+59They look suspiciously like blood cells... I smell a ***** hoax. Not yet sure.
- xiphoris, on 10/12/2007, -7/+46I just wanted to point out that we're in no danger from alien pathogens. The human body is extremely good at detecting and destroying things that aren't supposed to be in our bodies.
The *only* things that are dangerous to us are pathogens that have *explicitly evolved to subvert our immune system's defenses*. The HIV virus, for example, has specific mechanisms to get around our immune response.
Random pathogens from space stand no chance to infect us. There's no danger of us "not being accustomed" to some virus from space, because that virus won't be evolved to infect us.
It's a very different situation from people from the Old World bringing plagues to the New World -- those plagues DID know how to attack humans.
Random space pathogens won't. Our bodies will destroy them much more easily than anything found on earth. - GetInLine1, on 10/12/2007, -10/+43I'm no doctor but I must agree these look like red blood cells. Take a look for yourself: http://www.esa.int/images/bloodcell400.jpg
- snatchedlaus, on 10/12/2007, -4/+32This is really cool, what if they are aliens! It could be an invasion, no leaves or white colthes are safe from the Red Rainians!
- spiritflare1, on 10/12/2007, -1/+26there have been numerous documented stories of tornadoes picking up frogs or whatever else from the water, and dumping them miles away.. it's possible the indian monsoon picked up algae or some other form from lakes or the sea, and eventually rained them down..seems to be a likely conclusion..?
- gaddis, on 10/12/2007, -1/+23As a scientist the biggest problem I have with Prof. Louis's paper is that his test for DNA is incomplete.
From the TEM images we can see that the cell walls are extremely thick. Louis points this out and emphasizes the fact as a feature consistent with extremophile biology. However for his DNA test to work Louis must break these cell walls in order for his dye molecules to reach any DNA inside the cells.
If these organisms are truly adapted to survival in space as well as to replicate at 300C, it seems dubious that his method of grinding the cells in a mortar would necessarily be effective. He needs to show SEM and TEM images of the broken cell walls to convince us that his test is accurate.
In addition Louis could use PCR-based methods to amplify small amounts of DNA present if only a few cells are able to be cracked open. This would not be difficult even on a small budget and why he has not done so is a mystery.
The obvious reason for skepticism is that Prof. Louis has not made samples of the red rain cells available for outside labs to verify his claims. Recently he has given a sample to the University of Sheffield, UK to examine. The UK researchers are supposed to be making an announcement in coming weeks.
If this indeed turns out to be true the significance is huge for several reasons:
Societal impact: Existence of E.T. will lead to massive upheavals in religious and cultural views over a much shorter time frame than otherwise would occur.
Technological impact: All life on earth uses DNA as it's sole information storage molecule. DNA is thermally unstable and is the reason the highest temperature extremophile discovered lives at only 110C. Prof. Louis has written a paper describing culturing of these organisms at 300C optimum temperature. If this is in fact true, a high temperature biological system exists in which protein-based information storage and complex self-assembly occur. The implications for such a system would be enormous and if indeed true will attract more attention than carbon nanotubes have over the past 10 years as processing temperature is currently the largest hurdle when interfacing inorganic and organic materials. - geminitojanus, on 10/12/2007, -7/+28"Random pathogens from space stand no chance to infect us."
I'm glad you're so confident. Meanwhile, those of us in reality realize that the human body, while good at detecting foreign invaders, doesn't really have a strong immune system for virus protection; the only way we defeat viruses that come into our systems are to kill off the cells that the virus is using to replicate, and to rise the whole temperature of the body so that our bodies become inhospitable. (Oh yeah, and the article mentions that these organisms have developed incredibly thick cell walls, thick enough to survive temperatures of up to 300C. It's a wild claim, but if true, I doubt there's much in the human body that could destroy a cell like this).
If they are extra-terrestrial and contain virii, however, the risk is smaller that they could do any damage to us, because their DNA is likely incompatible with ours, and likewise, they might not be able to use our cells to replicate. However, a pathogen like a bacteria doesn't need to use our cells to replicate directly, and seeing if these were strong enough to survive exposure to space, one of the harshest environments known to exist, they may have indirectly mutated ways to survive inside of the human body (see Cell wall comment above).
So please, before you're so quick to dismiss something that's entirely hypothetical, realize that there is a factual chance it could happen. The whole point of the thought exercize is to think about how we should treat the unknown and all lifeforms with respect. They could be as harmless as baker's yeast and lactobacilli, or as deadly as ebola or anthrax. They could secrete compounds that could go on to make cancer drugs, or they could be the next strain of biological weapons, or lead to the development of chemical weapons. We just do not know, and it is too early to know. I'm not trying to insight fear, I'm trying to get people to realize the serious nature of what it is they're dealing with. - tonyspencer, on 10/12/2007, -9/+30Take me to your bleeder...
- geminitojanus, on 10/12/2007, -2/+23...and then we find out that the cells carry a foreign virus/pathogen of some kind that we aren't accustom to and half of the race becomes infected and..
Point being any life should be taken seriously. Whether this is real or fake, it's still interesting, and if it is really alien life, scientists have a lot of work to do. It'll be hard to confirm. - Mattman723, on 10/12/2007, -11/+32well i see a nucleus, suggesting these a eukariotic cells, unlike red blood cells which are prokaryotes
- puck, on 10/12/2007, -0/+20Problem with the red blood cell theory is red blood cells do NOT have a thick outer cell envelope. It is true they lack DNA and RNA for the most part. A simple test for hemaglobin could help sort it out. If there is no hemaglobin, they are not RBCs. yes, I am a doctor.
- butchcassidy503, on 10/12/2007, -0/+20@macguy815
There have been tornadoes reported on every continent except Antartica. They are certainly more common in the western hemisphere, but they are not limited to the western hemisphere.
http://www.tornadoproject.com/alltorns/india.htm - LavosPhoenix, on 10/12/2007, -0/+15Tornadoes DO form near India, especially in Bangledesh, which gets Typhoons, Tornadoes, Earthquakes, Tsunami's and flooding. It's one of the most active areas for Tornadoes in Asia. Not to mention, anywhere you get hurricanes, you are bound to develop circulations or spins in the atmosphere that can spawn tornadoes.
- m1ss1ontomars, on 10/12/2007, -3/+16not to mention the fact that you can't see organelles and DNA in cells with either a LM or an SEM
- BassCadet, on 10/12/2007, -1/+13from wiki:
A more radical explanation for the rains was proposed by Godfrey Louis and A. Santhosh Kumar, two scientists at Mahatma Gandhi University in Kottayam, Kerala. Samples of the rainwater were collected at many locations, allowing the red particles to be collected and analysed, and Louis and Kumar found that the red particles did not look like dust but instead had the appearance of biological cells. Chemical analyses showed that they seemed to consist of organic material, and the scientists proposed that the dust may be microbes of extraterrestrial origin.
Louis and Kumar's analysis found that the red particles were typically 4 to 10 µm across, spherical or oval in shape, and similar in appearance to unicellular organisms. On average, 1 millilitre of rain water was found to contain 9 million red particles, and the weight of particles in each litre of rainwater was about 100 milligrams. Extrapolating these figures to the total amount of red rain estimated to have fallen, Louis and Kumar calculated that a total weight of some 50,000 kilograms of red particles had fallen over Kerala.
Spectral analyses showed that, the particles on average by mass are composed of: 62% carbon, 26% oxygen, 5.1% silicon, 1.2% sodium, 1.1% aluminium, and 4.6% other. Louis and Kumar performed tests to see if any DNA or RNA was present in the red particles, but found none.
Their results were published in the journal Astrophysics and Space Science.
no DNA...move along. - rayman901, on 10/12/2007, -2/+13If they're red blood cells, shouldn't they have a lot of iron because of hemoglobin? Plus where's the other stuff that's found in blood, like white blood cells and platelets? The size, shape, and color DO corresopnd with red blood cells, but the chemical composition and the number of them doesn't. Plus it's interesting to note that the first red rain incident happened just hours after a "meteor airburst event".
- solarpowered, on 10/12/2007, -2/+13Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof.
- modian, on 10/12/2007, -7/+18photo of the alien from purple rain:
http://digytof.canalblog.com/_Users_frpsabbah_Desktop_purple_rain_33533PRPHOTO2_copie.jpg - ThePhilomath, on 10/12/2007, -2/+12There's no reason to think this is an alien life form. What a random jump of logic! It is MUCH MORE PROBABLE that whatever this is, it is from an Earthly origin.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -2/+12We're not. Read the summary, he took the pictures out of a PDF writup and posted them in an easily accessible form. There are links to the full paper.
- butchcassidy503, on 10/12/2007, -4/+14I don't exactly see where the whole alien/extraterrestrial conclusion comes from? Sounds like someone's got a wild imagination.
- Dhalgren, on 10/12/2007, -1/+11http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_rain_in_Kerala
- cranium, on 10/12/2007, -4/+14Yes, I do find that strange. Particularly because the bible doesn't say that.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -7/+17If they are aliens it will be like Tiberium:
First everyone will think "how cool".
A couple of months later the worlds economy will be based on them because they mine resoureces for us but they will be reallly deadly and kill you if you go near them.
NOD forever! - Cyberdactyl, on 10/12/2007, -6/+16This was originally discovered in 2001. Why is it just now becoming a sensation?
- spiritflare1, on 10/12/2007, -1/+9@macguy815: Please check your facts before you make blanket statements. Tornadoes form in all parts of the world. However, I am suggesting that while tornadoes have been documented to pick up matter from lakes, etc and dump it elsewhere, I am suggesting the mechanism here could be monsoon storms.
- cyrix, on 10/12/2007, -5/+13Hah. Why are so many people saying "It's blood." I'm sorry but I think scientists would have figured out if it were blood or algae by now don't you? Especially given how many people are looking into this.
It's crazy....posting on Digg gives you an instance doctorate in any field your discussing. - Xopl, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7Hard to clone a cell with no DNA...
- dynamic, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6Before making wild assumptions on what this is or isn't , why not read the actual scientific paper on this. Here it is in PDF form. : http://arxiv.org/PS_cache/astro-ph/pdf/0601/0601022.pdf
Interesting quote on this topic ! : "500,000 cubic metres of water in total, containing a staggering 50 tonnes of red particles." - Yatima, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7X-Files: "Alien Rain"
[Mulder is still living in the FBI's basement. Instead of watching pr0n, he's actually reading this time]
[Scully enters with a brisk walk, as usual in a power dress]
Scully: What are doing?
Mulder: I'm reading a paper in [flips the cover] 'Astrophysics and Space Science'.
Scully: What - have you finally decided to do orbital mechanics?
Mulder: No it's about red rain that fell on some part of India.
Scully [sneers]: Sounds biblical.
Mulder: Yeah, see here. The author seems to be imply that there might be extraterrestrial lifeforms that coloured the rain. Coming from a comet. [shows photographs]
Scully [in a pitying tone]: MULDER...these are RED BLOOD CELLS.
Mulder: So how do you get red blood cells into rain? The guy says there must have been tons of the stuff.
Scully: I don't know. Maybe a flock a bats exploded?
Mulder: Riigghhtt... besides, there's no evidence for any DNA.
Scully: Mulder - If you had paid attention in forensics you would know that red blood cells do NOT carry DNA. Though they are eukaryotic they lose their nucleus when they mature so that they can have more space for hemoglobin.
Mulder: Oh!
Scully: Besides of which, this might be a hoax.
Mulder: Oh I don't think it's being discussed on the Internet right here and they say...
Scully: Oh, forget the Internet. You know it's just for pr0n.
Mulder [ignores this and turns to an old-fashioned mid-50s dia projector, then goes into history prof mode]: Red rain (also often called "blood rain" by those who have had the misfortune to experience it) is a common feature of human history [clicks] Charles Fort, in his "Book of the Damned" [clicks] has described numerous well-documented occurrences. In May 1863, for example a substance, reddish varying to yellowish, fell enormously and successively, in France and Spain [clicks]. It carbonized and spread the odor of charred animal matter. In alcohol it left a residue of resinous matter [drones on]
Scully [condescendingly]: I suppose that was just sand from the Lybian desert.
Mulder: But no sand was ever found on the ground.
Scully [doing the 'annoyed silence' like only women can, then:] What are you getting at?
Mulder: I want you to come with me on a vacation to India.
Scully: Oh no you don't.
Mulder: I already have the tickets [exhibits tickets].
[Skinner comes in]
Skinner: What are you two up two?
Scully: Well, M. Mulder here wanted to go on a trip to India...
Skinner: What? No way. This is the FBI, not the State Departement. Besides you know I cannot put the word 'India' into any report until Congress has had time to ... err .. seriously discuss Dr. Strangedeal's latest intervention in that country. I need you two to get on this case: a few cases of BSE have been detected in cattle grazing in Wyoming and we suspect contravention of federal laws about reporting cattle diseases.
Mulder [throws a pencil into the corner with a resigned gesture]: Yes, sir.
[Upon which they take off and find that Aliens from Lemuria are being held in deep-freeze in the basement of an innocuous-looking butcher's shop in downtown Riverton. Unfortunately, Cancer Man shows up and whisks the evidence away before the press can be called in. Mulder finishes as a raving, maniaco-depressive nutcase, while Scully decides to try transcendental meditation. The end] - Yatima, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6ZOMG! A virus may have DNA or RNA (HIV is a RNA virus). A virus is not alive. It's just a message in a bottle. Needs hosts cells to run itself. You can wait until the cows come home for it to multiply in your petri dish.
- irate, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6Or maybe some Government is trying to piss off the Indian people by slaughtering cows in mid-air and having the blood rain down?
- rodrigo74, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7The RBC angle is covered thoroughly in the New Scientist article, but unfortunately it's not available online (only for subscribers).
Certainly such striking similarity in shape was not ignored by the scientist who wrote the paper, or the peer-reviewers... - jasongetsdown, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6"If they are extra-terrestrial and contain virii, however, the risk is smaller that they could do any damage to us, because their DNA is likely incompatible with ours, and likewise, they might not be able to use our cells to replicate"
If you had read the article you might have noted that the "cells" do not contain DNA or RNA. Don't write off the comment about E.T. viruses not being evolved to infect us. Viruses are finely tuned to take advantage of certain specific oganisms. Bacteriphages only attack bacteria, HIV only attacks human T cells, mimivirus only attacks ameobas.
Our immune systems would treat them like any other spec of debris in our system, leucophages would eat em up. - cshldoc, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5Actually, if you prick your finger and let some blood run into tap water (or rain water or any other hypotonic [low salt] solution) you'll end up with lysed (popped) RBCs. So, unless the rainwater was isotonic with vertebrate plasma from the moment it captured the cells all the way to when it was collected, I judge it highly unlikely that these are red blood cells from _any_ species. Have a gander at http://www.atomic.princeton.edu/~kuzma/bio/RBCpermb.pdf for a more in-depth explanation.
- LacY, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6Yeah, but proteins have lots of nitrogen in them, so why is there not a lot of nitrogen found in these cells? Sounds to me like these "cells" are, at the very most just an empty membrane.
Actually, if they found no iron, how are these cells red, unless they're staining them red...
Oh, and for all of the "this could cause a plague" people--no nucleic acids, and apparently no proteins = not infectious (and also completely unable to replicate and thus sustain life...) - LacY, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6Mature erythrocytes (the ones circulating the body, not young ones in the bone marrow) have no mitochondria, either.
However, to be fair--this is only true of mammalian RBCs. I'm pretty sure all other organisms (that have what we consider blood... I guess all other vertebrates) have nucleated red blood cells, even when mature. So if these are RBCs (and that's what they sure look like), then they are definitely mammalian, b/c the biconcave disk is the hallmark of a mamallian RBC. - Aeiri, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5"You just always hear about these british tourists who come to America to see tornadoes- because they've never seen one in their own country"
I've never heard of british tourists trying to see a tornado.... but just in case this is true, what do they expect to see?
I've lived in tornado alley my whole life, done the whole tornado drill deals, sat through tornado watches/warnings (in fact, we're in one right now!), had some minor damage done due to winds and such, but I've only actually seen a tornado once. On vacation. In a different state. - LacY, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5"In simple terms those things are not cells."
Not that I think these things are anything alien or whatever, but to be fair, you can have cells that don't have any nucleic acid. Mature RBCs don't, and so-called "ghost cells" don't either. - Fleecebeast, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5"Puh-leeze. Until we get a peer-reviewed scientifical journal saying those are NOT red blood cells, this whole thing looks quite convincingly like a hoax."
If you read the page, you'll note the fact that these pictures ARE from an article in a peer-reviewed scientific journal. A link is provided. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7You know, you probably should have cited the article in your Digg.
"The red rain phenomenon of Kerala and its possible extraterrestrial origin". Astrophysics and Space Science. G. Louis, A.S. Kumar. 2006. - butchcassidy503, on 10/12/2007, -5/+10@m1ss1ontomars
There have been numerous occurances of frogs, fish, etc getting sucked up in a storm and then dropped on to land. Just because something falls from the sky doesn't mean it came directly from the cosmos. - troublemaker, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7I find it creepy that you believe in the bible.
- fyngyrz, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5@gaddis: "Societal impact: Existence of E.T. will lead to massive upheavals in religious and cultural views over a much shorter time frame than otherwise would occur."
No. Existance of E.T. will lead religion to find justification for it in existing writings and religion going on as it always has in the face of outright error. Religion is not a fact-based methodology. Expecting it to react like one is therefore unreasonable. - Flanker, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4tonyspencer: The endosymbiont theory you speak of suggests that mitochondria and chloroplasts came from prokaryotes (i.e. bacteria), not aliens. You're using the definition of "alien" pretty loosely, and I think it is clear from context that cyanidenfs used it in the very specific sense of "extraterrestrial."
- Tyrel, on 10/12/2007, -4/+8@madflyer
Ok, if you're a genius, then what's this? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Hemisphere - Hurricane, on 10/12/2007, -7/+11Yeah its definitely blood.
Where in the world would a storm pick up that much blood?
Who said it was human blood, could there possibly be a slaughterhouse somewhere that a twister could have hit it?....hmmmmm -
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