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Nuclear explosions could be key to spotting fake paintings

cbc.ca — A Russian curator says she's developed a foolproof method of determining whether a piece of art was made before or after 1945 as a way of sniffing out fake paintings.

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  • lucy22, on 06/28/2008, -38/+15The radiation lasts a long time.
    Wonder about the human health effects.
    • diggdong, on 06/29/2008, -12/+3See comments below.
    • Azerael, on 06/29/2008, -12/+8Considering the Sun blasts the planet with at least several hundred times the combined radiation output of all the nuclear warheads ever detonated in human history every year, I'd say the effects on human health are negligible.
    • Rijnzael, on 06/29/2008, -4/+13Luckily for us, the Earth's magnetic field and atmosphere take care of a large percentage of it.
    • blitz718, on 06/29/2008, -7/+2Really now, and apparently that small amount isn't damaging either, is it?


      I'd like you to meet my friend, melanoma.
  • davidhallstrom, on 06/29/2008, -27/+8Very interesting.
  • franlee, on 06/29/2008, -43/+12What stupid comments. You people need to not have children so not to spread your idiot genes around.
  • hollyminkowski, on 06/29/2008, -23/+26This is a brilliant idea!
    One of those ideas that seems stupidly simple once you hear of it, but takes a genius to come up with in the first place.
  • dfnj123, on 06/29/2008, -20/+6Wait, wouldn't every painting have some form of radiation on it some how then?
    • blackmesa, on 06/29/2008, -2/+4That's probably very likely, but the key here is that the radioactive isotopes will be of different types and will have decayed to certain levels. Both of those facts provide us with something to measure, and allow us to "join the dots" about the painting's history. You have the answer in your question when you say "some form" of radiation. Indeed there are many different, unique forms, which is what gets this problem solved.
  • psion01, on 06/29/2008, -23/+15Neat ... but now that someone has thought of it, can't efforts be made to filter these isotopes from modern oils? Or, if that's too difficult, raise flaxseed in hydroponic conditions and make your own oil without contamination from these isotopes in the first place?
    • blackmesa, on 06/29/2008, -6/+3It can be done, but it's WAY too labour/energy intensive to justify it. The time, effort and resources required basically make it impossible.

      Hydroponics wouldn't eliminate it either, because the environment the system would be built in would be "contaminated" too, and you could never produce it on a scale that would justify the cost anyway.

      That said, the "contamination" isn't a big deal. The amount of isotope there (and the isotope itself) results in a radiation level so small that you probably inhale many times the amount each day (if you live in a city). Not to mention absorbing dozens (or hundreds? thousands?) of times more radiation from the sun/cosmic sources each day.

      A small amount of radiation is normal. Normal for life, normal for earth, normal for the universe. It's not like we're talking about lumps of plutonium here.
      • KMye, on 06/29/2008, -2/+2You think it would be too labor intensive to create enough oil paint for a painting that could potentially sell for hundreds of thousands to millions of dollars?

        I would leave it to maybe some other bright digger with actual expertise, but I find it incredibly hard to believe making an isotope-free oil paint is as hard as you think it would be, and even it was really, extremely difficult, the cost of working out a system for doing it could likely be justified by one painting.
  • sigafoo, on 06/29/2008, -22/+4and let the graveyard begin!
  • SpectreFire, on 06/29/2008, -18/+6And there was so much potential for this article.
  • Justice101, on 06/29/2008, -24/+3Put 'em in the pile quick! The Van Gogh too, hurry.
    *KABLOOOOOM
    What now?
    I haven't finished reading the article yet.
    Oh
    /excentric billionaire & digg user
  • Tiltmenot, on 06/29/2008, -23/+1Tilt... me... not
  • blackmesa, on 06/29/2008, -20/+96Just for everyone's information, the amount of radioactive material in the paintings discussed is so low that there are negligible/no health side-effects for humans. It's not like they're glowing blobs of nuclear waste. This is similar to using Carbon-14 for dating ancient fossils. The rate of decay is also low enough that you wouldn't absorb anything EVEN NEAR what you absorb from the sun in a normal day.

    There's a lot of silly comments here.
    • KingGorilla, on 06/29/2008, -5/+37Don't see why people are digging you down. God damn you idiots. Tired of these graveyards
      • blackmesa, on 06/29/2008, -8/+1Yeah. I'd like at least one of them to post with some semblance of a rational reason why.
    • VicHislop, on 06/29/2008, -8/+10It may not have any effects on human health, but essentially this same technique can be used to tell how old people are by measuring the amount of material that was trapped within the lens of the eye when it was formed. Since it is known how much material was in the atmosphere following the beginning of nuclear testing, they can compare that amount with the amount within the lens. Neat forensics trick.
      • blackmesa, on 06/29/2008, -3/+8Very interesting! It's just another example that helps you see how 'radiation' is a highly useful, commonly misunderstood scientific concept. It's easy to be afraid of something you don't understand. When you mention the word "radioactive" or "isotope", especially in close proximity to the words "bomb" or "nuclear weapon" people seem to put their brains in neutral and imagine deformed babies, cancer, the end of human kind, etc.
    • blitz718, on 06/29/2008, -6/+4The word radiation has way too much of a negative connotation to it, people just like to jump on the bandwagon. It's relatively simple physics that is being discussed and uninformed people(e.g. the 95% of the people who posted that didn't actually read the article) blow it up to make it think like the world is going to end because 'nuclear' and 'radiation' is involved.
    • Zera, on 06/29/2008, -5/+3I could be wrong, but I believe this technique for detecting forgeries (not just paintings) has been around for years. Is there something new this woman has added to this type of forensics or is this really the first time this has ever been done?
      • Azselendor, on 06/29/2008, -1/+3I'm fairly certain if there was, they wouldn't out-right say it. I would venture to comment that if anything new was added, it would be about the concentrations of the isotopes.
  • jmeeker516, on 06/29/2008, -24/+2Now everyone will know that i like wieners in or around my butthole.

    Double reverse psychology?
  • mrb4b00, on 06/29/2008, -17/+8Not very useful for spotting classical art, as a majority of the good fakes were created before WW2.
  • mikexcore, on 06/29/2008, -23/+3digg me down too!
  • Ghostalker, on 06/29/2008, -14/+4See.... all those nuke tests were good for something after all.
  • solidus636, on 06/29/2008, -21/+16What's with all the comment burials today? ***** tools.
  • MasterMO, on 06/29/2008, -19/+13Why couldn't the robbers get away with stealing artwork from the museum?

    Because they didn't have the Monet to buy Degas to make the Van Gogh
  • Vessol, on 06/29/2008, -20/+3OH OH! Can I be the first to get positive diggs! Only you can decide!
    • dfnj123, on 06/29/2008, -7/+1I just did but at this rate it will not stay that way for long...
      This will never stop I guess...
    • drgmdp, on 06/29/2008, -0/+1if only you made an intelligent comment..
  • Sagags, on 06/29/2008, -18/+3^
    I

    idiots
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  • popstation, on 06/29/2008, -15/+3oh my... digg for 3 year olds?
  • hawkspur, on 06/29/2008, -16/+4*puts away his shovel* Well folks. My job is done here.
  • nilez, on 06/29/2008, -15/+2See, I always tell people Nuclear weapons are good for something. Now I have that something.
  • Nyfeh, on 06/29/2008, -16/+4This was in Law and Order Criminal Intent a couple years ago... Does that make it old?
    • url404, on 06/29/2008, -7/+0Beat me to it. Buried for being ripped from the show that rips from the headlines
  • jynweythek, on 09/17/2008, -13/+3These comments suck.
  • moomeep, on 06/29/2008, -14/+1Nucular... It's pronounced Nucular.
  • mrzeero, on 06/29/2008, -16/+4I bet that forgers will start seeding their forgeries with isotopes now.
    • AnotherBrian, on 06/29/2008, -2/+1Isotope dating doesn't work that way, if you seeded the painting it would appear more recent.
  • mecharabbit, on 06/29/2008, -15/+1Harry Truman must have been a real art lover.
  • jynweythek, on 09/17/2008, -16/+2Comment buried! Show
    Is 'jwiesenborn' being offensive? Report it
  • 1legend, on 06/29/2008, -16/+1i was trying to think of a way to get ppl to digg me up but i couldn't think of anything damnit
  • Kryptonitfusion, on 06/29/2008, -18/+2wtf digg me down too. ps i dugg everyone else above me down. and will digg down everyone else below me too
  • quomen, on 06/29/2008, -9/+87Digg users need to grow up. This was an interesting article that could've spawned an interesting conversation, but all the comments are being buried. The dumbass comments and the comment graveyard shows how far from our tech roots we've gone..
    • blackmesa, on 06/29/2008, -10/+9Why does this comment 'graveyard' thing happen anyway?? I've seen it before but can't figure it out.
      • Philbert, on 06/29/2008, -6/+5'cause people are a-holes
      • alexforcefive, on 06/29/2008, -5/+10Usually because someone on one of the 4chan ripoff sites arranges it. Although sometimes it just looks that way due to a high concentration of retarded comments
    • evanstapler, on 06/29/2008, -4/+7I agree entirely. Several times have I wanted to see some of the cool comments people have made on an article, only to find a series of buried comments. It's pretty ridiculous...
  • mrzeero, on 06/29/2008, -16/+1Let's see if this works. Obama 08!
  • Orangewarp, on 06/29/2008, -16/+11Sounds like an interesting idea, but its also a kind of sad commentary on our history.
    • blackmesa, on 06/29/2008, -2/+2At least we can derive something useful and constructive from something that's traditionally so harmful and destructive.
  • dalnet22, on 06/29/2008, -10/+2Way to unlock another door.
  • Dealjobber, on 06/29/2008, -10/+1Father would be pleased. Either way, it would still be illegal.

    Here I am, a typical digg user, concluding this article with a movie reference.

    Now bury me.
  • flawlessjess, on 06/29/2008, -13/+7Bury me!!
  • sonofashoe, on 06/29/2008, -6/+12I think this scientist read The Billionaire's Vinegar; a great book about that explains how using the presence of these isotopes has been used to prove counterfeit "old wine".

    French scientist Philippe Hubert invented the technique over 10 years ago.
    • HappyScrappy, on 06/29/2008, -3/+2Yeah, and it was used on Law & Order (TV show) last season.
  • PupiDog, on 06/29/2008, -8/+2I say we take off and nuke the entire site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.
  • bbqsalad, on 06/29/2008, -7/+1Welcome to Nazi Digg, This is why Reddit wins.
  • ElectroBot, on 06/29/2008, -4/+2Digg should create a "digging" rule that would ignore further diggs if it finds that you digg almost every comment up or down in a specific article. Best idea might be to put in a limit of a couple thumb up/downs per minute.
  • VitriolAndAngst, on 06/29/2008, -3/+1I'd heard some theories that the nuclear testing that was done by the US and various other countries, is responsible for most of the up-tick in cancers---leading to the ban on above-ground testing, as they quietly swept the facts under the carpet that nuclear bombs were more dangerous than we ever thought. Now there are a lot of theories, and not a lot of information to show if they are true or not. But then there is this story about how pervasive the radioactive fallout was.

    If there were enough isotopes released, such that EVERY bit of organic paint picks up a detectable amount in a painting -- doesn't that mean that there would be SOME effect on organisms like humans that would live a long time, and thus come in contact with a lot of these isotopes over time? I really didn't think it was that significant until now. This is kind of how we date certain artifacts around the time the dinosaurs were wiped out -- by a layer of Cesium released allegedly from a huge meteorite. Everything above that layer is post-dinosaur. So, now we can carbon-date ourselves. Great.
  • i38warhawk, on 06/29/2008, -1/+0These comments are half retarded. The article itself was interesting and well written but a little short. How do they authenticate paintings that were painted post 1945?
  •  

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