What is Digg?66 Comments
- Akaji, on 10/12/2007, -9/+64"Amazingly, the Greek builders of the theater did not themselves understand the principles that led to the exceptional audibility of sound from the stage."
I would say RTFA, but it seems like you just need to RTFATTFE (to the %*$@ing end). - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -5/+54"I wonder what the world would of been like if they hadn't been destroyed"
Everyday would be a Toga Day - rockforever, on 10/12/2007, -3/+42Its amazing what these ancient civilizations did. I wonder what the world would of been like if they hadn't been destroyed
- Wildthing, on 10/12/2007, -7/+35Everyone in our theater heard "THIS IS SPARTA!!!!!" just fine.
- tutivlahos, on 10/12/2007, -0/+17Here is another theater, still in use, near acropolis.
And smaller.
http://img244.imageshack.us/img244/6586/dsc02551yg5.jpg - jgreene777, on 10/12/2007, -5/+21"I wonder what the world would of been like if they hadn't been destroyed"
I wonder what it would HAVE been like. Maybe threads would be full of people who know how to write the language they speak. - GoldenGopher1, on 10/12/2007, -0/+16How can the surface of the seats have any effect if there are 14,000 greeks sitting on the seats? It's one thing to test this theater with empty seats, but shouldn't they be testing with a full crowd?
- Rodzirra, on 10/12/2007, -3/+18moylan: "Dont even let me get started on Sparta."
Okay. It's a deal. - petsounds, on 10/12/2007, -0/+14I've been to this amphitheater. It's basically carved into the side of a mountain. The acoustics of this thing are no overstatement. I had friends stand on the stage and I could hear them talking at a normal volume from the back -- probably 150 feet away -- as if they were standing right next to me.
- jgreene777, on 10/12/2007, -1/+15Modern Man really needs to give Ancient Man more credit. We couldn't build the pyramids today as well as they were built thousands of years ago. Why couldn't Man have been able to do great things thousands of years ago? We, as a race, have forgotten more things than we know and ancient sites like this prove it.
- jongos, on 10/12/2007, -5/+17Not fair, your yesterday's news is someone else's news today and of course it's old to you if you indeed are "a member of the organization that published this research".
- megaton, on 10/12/2007, -0/+10Limestone. Indeed.
I bet the audience's bodies had no dampening effect of any consequence. - ABandGeek, on 10/12/2007, -9/+19As a person who makes his living as an architectural acoustical consultant (and a member of the organization that published this research), I've got to say that this is both old news and pretty lame. The physics behind the good speech acoustics of the Greek amphitheater have been well understood for a long time, and the basic principles behind it are used as a guideline by every good acoustician. Dugg down as lame.
- morriscat, on 10/12/2007, -1/+10Whoops, thought that said "Geek Amphitheater"
Oh wait, that what DIGG is :) - M4tt3r, on 10/12/2007, -1/+9In case you missed it, here is a picture.
http://www.livescience.com/php/multimedia/imagedisplay/img_display.php?pic=070405_greeks_acoustics_02.jpg&cap=The+Theater+at+Epidaurus+on+the+Peloponnese+in+Greece.+Credit%3A+Georgia+Institute+of+Technology - insovietrussia, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8Well they were conquered by the Romans, invaded by the Persians, ruled by the Ottoman Empire, and occupied by the Germans.
They did win Euro 2004 though. That was cool. - tutivlahos, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7As you can see in this picture, in the middle there is a plate, they leave it there so you can throw a coin in it, to experience the acoustic. You can hear the coin hitting the plate from the last seat. It's really cool.
- deuceswilde, on 10/12/2007, -3/+9"Its amazing what these ancient civilizations did. I wonder what the world would of been like if they hadn't been destroyed"
Nations are eventually destroyed by their own faults or through the progress of other nations. To assume that they would have continued developing infinitely had they not been destroyed completely ignores the fact that the world is generally a better place when one of these civilizations is "destroyed" because it implies that in some area they were inferior and natural selection is making the world stronger as a result. - FoolishMortal, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7It didn't take them so long. I remember reading an article about this years ago. Not sure exactly why they are trying to say this is new information or a new discovery...
- pinfu, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6@jongos
I agree with your sentiment, but that doesn't account for the claim "finally solved" in the title -- seems like the parent wouldn't have as much of a problem if it were titled appropriately. - cuoops, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5source - http://www.gatech.edu/news-room/release.php?id=1324
bigger picture - http://www.gatech.edu/upload/pr/tfg95035.jpg - carltonsmith, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6Man, just because you already knew it doesn't mean the rest of us don't find it interesting.
- Nick22, on 10/12/2007, -11/+16Because you touch yourself at night.
- hockey, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6From a despair.com poster
"You can do anything you set your mind to when you have vision, determination, and an endless supply of expendable labor." - brufleth, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4"Its amazing what these ancient civilizations did. I wonder what the world would of been like if they hadn't been destroyed"
I often wonder how things would be if the Library of Alexandria hadn't been burned. - EBFoxbat, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5Greeks never had passing cars and jets to deal with. The entire planet was much quieter. The achievement is, nonetheless, remarkable but it was a different time.
- bgammill, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4I've actually been there, I went in December and January all around Greece. This place was extremely interesting, especially the architecture and acoustics. I took some pictures, you can view them : http://www.ironyimpact.com/greece/
Incredibly beautiful country, I'll be back there soon, well worth the money. - crovonrosso, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5 I wonder, did they tested it with 14000 people in it?
- Rcdriver, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4That slogan is beyond old...
- flashingcurser, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5@deuceswilde
If the scrolls at the library of Alexandria had not been burned, we technologically would have been many years ahead of were we are now. - tonicboy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3@flashingcurser
Yeah, maybe we would have large, thin OLED screens by now. Goddammit, they promised me that ***** years ago. - silenteulogy, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4Exactly.
It doesn't matter what the article says, there is no way to know what the ancient Greeks knew about acoustical engineering. Meanwhile modern engineers are still trying to determine how the ancient Egyptians and ancient Celts built the Great Pyramid and Stonehenge, respectively. - thefaithful, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3"Its amazing what these ancient civilizations did. I wonder what the world would of been like if they hadn't been destroyed"
The Olympics would be in the nude. - there, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3"the greeks are worthless today...what happened?"
While Greeks are an old people, Greece itself is relatively a new country that has been plagued by wars since its creation in early 1800's (after the area was occupied by Ottoman turks for several hundred years).Its economy is hindered by few natural resources, a small workforce (10 million). a language different than English (the defacto busines language), a tourist economy, and security is always an issue with countries bordering the middle east. This puts its economy roughly on par with Israel in terms of GDP.
This is half the story though. Since the 1950's the political climate has been stable enough to see dramatic increases in GDP. The US (the benchmark it seems) was 6 times GDP/capita but its been reduced to less than 2 times during that period and Greece continues to grow at a faster rate than the US. I checked Nationmaster and discovered Greece also enjoys 2 times less robbery, 4 times less fraud, 5 times less car thefts, 6 times less murders. 9 times less people incarcerated, 20 times less assaults, 30 times less rapes PER CAPITA than the US currently does. In addition, Greeks in America (where I imagine Greeks aren't impaired by economies of scale)... they represent the second wealthiest demographic per capita while remaining off the political radar screen (IMHO a good thing).
Conclusion:
I would recommend you consider investigating the actual facts before you insult a group that have been at the top or near the top of civilization for four thousand years. I seriously doubt whatever demographic you belong to even comes even close to the output of the Greek people man-for-man over the last four thousand years. - mahdaeng, on 10/12/2007, -3/+5@flashingcurser
your statement requires us to assume, of course, that: 1) you have read the books that were destroyed and have deemed them to contain the lost secrets that would unavoidably have brought about an enduring golden age on earth, 2) you are an expert on what makes a more advanced world, and 3) man would have acted more reasonably in light of said knowledge than he has in light of extant knowledge.
having said all that, i'd like to know what got lost in that fire - DreKor, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2You're an Ewok?
- n3tfury, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2@Akaji:
yeah, but i wonder how they know that? did the architects say "heh, we really don't know wtf we're doing, but it sounds ok. ***** it."? - steveguy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1@silenteulogy
I didn't know the Celts and Egyptians built the Pyramids. Cool. Thats what I call cooperation. - chrisjj, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I guess the Ancient Greeks were just as intelligent as the Modern Geeks.
Reminiscent of a the Mayan acoustic engineering marvel at the Mayan pyramid of Kukulkan at Chichen Itza where, if you clap your hands in front of the pyramid, you hear the chirping of the Quetzal bird which the Mayans worshiped. I went there recently, clapped, and couldn't believe i it, so much so that I found myself searching for the loudspeaker and microphone (see http://www.ocasa.org/docs/MayanPyramid.htm ). - kshitijb, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1The same story on ScienceDaily.com.
Read here : http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/04/070404162237.htm - MWeather, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I saw Ovid's version of Echo & Narcissus in that theater. I sat quite far from the stage and could still hear perfectly despite there being no amplification.
- sunamiebob, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1@tutivlahos - Ya I have been to both of those. It is pretty amazing how it seems the voices are right in front of you
- sctechguy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1You haven't learned what that little (reply) link at the bottom of each parent comment is, have you?
- satanatnmtedu, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1*****. We could build the pyramids just as well if not better. Ancient man did some remarkable things for the technology available. But, it is simply ignorant to claim that it would not be done as well or better now.
- jaybird2000, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0There is no way any logical person could believe that this was built without any understanding of how it worked.
Scientists/engineers today are such ego maniacs. They cannot admit that anyone *ever* had even a fraction as much knowledge as they have now. As a people we know a lot, but it looks like we do not know that much that is new. Like it or not people were able to do some pretty remarkable things a long long time ago.
And it took us only 2400 years to figure it out! And we have computers. I am tempted to argue that we actually have a smaller understanding of how things work now than ever before. - jazbek, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1toga! toga!
- Heyseuss, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2AGREED. As I was reading the article I kept wondering what the mystery was. The 'tests' performed were BS. The theory of low frequencies being muffled and higher frequencies reflecting off the seats back to the audience??? What a crock. This was never a mystery. I don't know why this article was produced. Someone must be thinking too hard about something that's been already thought out. I was taught in high school 18 years ago the science behind the amphitheatre. I've also set up and performed in around 3-4'000 arenas/stadiums/concert halls around the world.
- DreKor, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1They still have raki and ouzo, so they're not a completely lost cause.
- mille716, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1I've been there too. My buddy and I did the same thing. I expected that from the top you'd be able to hear the person if you listened carefully but didn't expect it to sound so clear and loud. I was awed.
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