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52 Comments
- thaguru, on 10/05/2009, -0/+15First thing I thought of was "Guns, Germs and Steel" by Jared Diamond, in which he argues persuasively that Eurasian peoples gained huge advantage because native animal and plant species could be easily domesticated (dogs, cows, goats, horses, pigs, sheep), whereas only one domesticable animal species was to be found natively in Africa or the Americas: the llama. Animals such as elephants are used as working animals, but they have defied human attempts to selectively breed them for particular traits, just as Africa's other major animal species have. paraphrasing a bit from the book...European cavalry was a real sight to behold, but just imagine an African rhinoceros-mounted cavalry? Devastating.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guns,_Germs,_and_Stee ... - Ascus, on 10/05/2009, -0/+12Dugg for Pet Foxes.
- SummerofGeorge, on 10/05/2009, -3/+9bloodninja: Rhinoceruses don't play games. They f*cking charge your ass.
j_gurli3: stop, cmon be serious.
bloodninja: It doesn't get any more serious than a Rhinocerus about to charge your ass. - rmxz, on 10/05/2009, -1/+6I wonder if domestication would be a good approach for saving many endangered species. Lots of rich people who pay a ton for purebred dogs - which are so inbred there's almost no genetic variety there anyway - would probably be ecstatic to have an exotic fox like those described in the article instead.
- gellfex, on 10/05/2009, -0/+5That's some amazingly risky research to breed a line of hyper aggressive rats. Haven't these guys ever seen any of the zillion TV movies or X-Files of mutant animals escaping and running amuck? Those rats could bring down civilization! We're not talking "Mrs. Frisby" here.
That said, I heard about those foxes some years ago, and have wondered when they'll be available in pet stores. They sound SO CUTE! - Subduction, on 10/05/2009, -0/+5You could tie a rope to his horn and play tetherball.
That would be fun for everybody. - Lamblikeawolf, on 10/05/2009, -0/+4Maybe the animal should have thought about that before it decided to not be tasty....
- solecize, on 10/05/2009, -0/+4It wouldn't really be saving the species, just a domesticated version of the species- plus only exciting/pretty animals like tigers would be saved, no one cares about an endangered shrew even if it is the beginning of a diverse food chain supporting thousands of other species.
- serif69, on 10/05/2009, -0/+4Ironic (or perhaps appropriate) story to come out the day this happens: http://digg.com/pets_animals/Pet_bear_kills_Pennsy ...
- cheezintern, on 10/05/2009, -0/+3I'd like an army of super aggressive rats. I'd be unstoppable.
- bobburn1, on 10/05/2009, -0/+3You read it wrong, only one beast of burden was domesticated in Africa or the Americas. Dogs, cats, guinea pigs, and more were all domesticated in Africa and the Americas.
- 44Bigs, on 10/05/2009, -0/+3I'd love to see the videos of those aggressive rats. They sound really vile.
- mrMunchies, on 10/05/2009, -0/+3Do we really need to domesticate these animals, I find it depressing to see wild animals confined to a cage or humiliated in circus acts
- haikuFU, on 10/05/2009, -1/+4What is with all the stupid comments?
Anyway, one of the reasons why this research is interesting is that if they can figure out the genes that cause certain predispositions in humans, then they could potentially treat those predispositions with gene therapy. So, instead of treating the symptoms of the problem with drugs, there would actually be a cure.
I suspect that in the future, we'll also see forced treatment of sex offenders and extremely violent people. - JoeParanoid, on 10/05/2009, -0/+3Or how about forced treatment of politically motivated people? Or gays (who, in times past, were "treated" with chemical castration), or bikers, or whoever else becomes our bete noir/forced treatment du jour?
- centran, on 10/05/2009, -0/+3You let coyotes hassle you?
- madcapmag, on 10/05/2009, -0/+3Is it just me, or did anyone get an Aldous Huxley vibe from that part about how she hopes pharmaceutical companies can use the foxes to develop therapies for behavioral problems?
- l034me, on 10/05/2009, -0/+3Lisa needs braces.
- Berkana, on 10/05/2009, -0/+2I'd like to see someone domesticate lemurs and tarsiers. I imagine the tame ones would look something like this:
http://gremlins.files.wordpress.com/2007/11/gizmpi ... - megamod, on 10/05/2009, -1/+3They could do this for circus lions. Sigfried and Roy wouldn't have to worry ever again.
As a suggestion for the next animal they should try to domesticate, I wouldn't mind a pet cheetah...just sayin' - D1Foley, on 10/05/2009, -4/+6This is all just lies to discredit God and Jesus, everyone knows cows and other domesticated animals were created tame, by God, just for us!
/s
Seriously though interesting story, and a good read. - Subduction, on 10/05/2009, -0/+2Nope.
- Boagrius, on 10/05/2009, -0/+2The Zebra pictured has some very nice straight white teeth! Good dental plan!
- Lamblikeawolf, on 10/05/2009, -1/+3Actually, the tiger that "attacked" Roy wasn't doing it out of aggression. He said it himself, the tiger was only acting on instinct, as though he were a part of the tiger's own family.
There are several reasons listed on the wikipedia article, and none of them say that aggression on the part of the tiger. - nepidae, on 10/05/2009, -0/+2Those aggressive rats sound like the Sumatran rat monkey.
- bvangrunsven, on 10/05/2009, -0/+2I've been taming "silver foxes" for most of my adult life now. Finding them at the seediest of bars is the rough part. Camo and sleeveless shirts tend to allow me to blend into their environment though. A faded tramp stamp and trimmed silver fur tends to be the marking that easily identifies these "silver foxes".
- JargonScott, on 10/05/2009, -0/+2Well, it wasn't 100% "their fault". A friend was showing how to call them, and way more came than he was expecting. It quickly went from "huh that's interesting" to "dude WTF!?!" when 20 sets of eyes were glowing in the dark.
- cmotdibbler, on 10/05/2009, -1/+3I welcome our super aggressive rat overlords.
- Lamblikeawolf, on 10/05/2009, -1/+3Uhuh.
Because a lion would /totally/ be happier struggling with disease, for mates, for food, etc. than it would be in the comfort of an air-conditioned, predator/competition-free villa.
And my pet guinea pig would /totally/ be happier running for it's life from a South American predatory bird, rather than eating his timothy hay at his leisure in a roomy 3x2 C&C cage.
I /totally/ see your point, man.
For that matter, why should we keep livestock? Are we so lazy as to not want to go out and strangle our individual food with our individual hands?
Or farm plants?
Hell, after a plant bears it's nutritional part once, it get's plowed under and killed for the next crop.
-.- - JoeParanoid, on 10/05/2009, -0/+2Everyone seems to be reading this as a cute pet story. I see the military and social-control direction, because you just know that's where it's really headed (though they always tout expected human health benefits that never manage to materialize).
And a broad-headed, floppy-eared fox becomes just another dog breed, as though we don't already have enough with more crossbreeding going on all the time. I respect the wildness in things human and animal. There's something truly admirable about an animal too stubborn to tame. - Makemeasword, on 10/05/2009, -0/+1Domesticate some Pandas!
- SoCalDissident, on 10/05/2009, -0/+1Sounds like some pretty thorough research. I was wondering how they werent' sure it wasn't nature vs. nurture, but then I got to that part of the article...
- inactive, on 10/05/2009, -0/+1I guess that was pure irony or sarcasm...
- JoeParanoid, on 10/06/2009, -0/+1I'm not talking taxonomy here, I'm talking just another pet. Of course I know cats are cats and dogs are dogs (where did everyone get so literal-minded?) and different in characteristics as well, but it seems the dog qualities are the ones being sequenced in foxes here. In no time it will be quite difficult to distinguish them from a Malti-shih-poo or whatever. I recently saw a dog whose owner claimed it was part coyote. The point being we already have a plethora of pets, and far too many in shelters and on the streets. We don't need to be cooking up more.
- bubba9999, on 10/05/2009, -0/+1You can pick up tame silver foxes at any shopping mall in America. Just bring some hard candy with you.
- frostbyt, on 10/05/2009, -1/+2Just goes to show evolution is based on environment.
- isunktheship, on 10/05/2009, -0/+1obamacare
- iamdwayne, on 10/06/2009, -0/+1Why not?
You could use beavers as chainsaws and have a warthog under the sink for a garburetor.
Yabba dabba doo! - bobburn1, on 10/05/2009, -1/+2Nice, we really are the top of the food chain aren't we? Animal too big or scary? Turn it into a lubby dubby cuddle-machine.
- Lamblikeawolf, on 10/05/2009, -0/+1*****, dude. If I had enough money, I'd get one.
- Lamblikeawolf, on 10/05/2009, -0/+1I noticed it too.
However, medical benefits may prove just as elusive as medical behavioral control.
And no matter how tame or aggressive rats may be, poison still kills them pretty effectively.
I am not too worried.
Also, can't be a dog breed, man.
Foxes aren't dogs, no matter how floppy their ears are, and no matter how waggy their tails are.
A floppy ear does not a dog make.
This is like arguing that the domestication of the cat will be "just another dog breed." Everyone knows the stark differences between dogs and cats, and I am certain that there are plenty of behavioral differences between dogs and foxes, even though they diverged from dogs more recently than cats (as suggested by the current scientific classifications.)
Also, the foxes are Vulpes vulpes, while dogs are Canis lupus, in case you were going the crossbreeding dogs and foxes route. (don't think you were; covering all of my bases.) They don't have even remotely the same number of chromosomes, and even foxes have trouble breeding with other species of foxes. (http://jhered.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/abstr ... - LeepII, on 10/05/2009, -0/+1Well written and informative article, good read.
- Lamblikeawolf, on 10/05/2009, -0/+1Haven't escaped yet. That is more than can be said of the Africanized bees....
- Berkana, on 10/06/2009, -0/+1... the danger of domesticating something with opposable thumbs and the potential for higher intelligence: armed rebellion.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JTMf40ORFE8 - Lamblikeawolf, on 10/05/2009, -0/+1Everyone would want a mogwai.
But then some japanese dude would come and yell at you about responsibility.
That or...
"The fourth case of animal abuse on the domestic lemur today, this one was also found living in damp conditions, only being fed after midnight..." - AmyVernon, on 10/05/2009, -2/+2I've gotta admit, I can see the usefulness of a tamed zebra and a tamed cheetah would be kind of cool. But what use could a tame rhino possibly be? For us OR the rhino?
- haikuFU, on 10/05/2009, -2/+2But they still have to worry about the HIV.
- JargonScott, on 10/05/2009, -1/+1Granted it's a childish daydream, but it would be cool if all animals were domesticated like this. After being in a pickup truck that was surrounded by coyotes and at another time in a car when a damn bear was walking by, it would be nice to have only the same mild concern when meeting a strange cat, as opposed to the pants-***** fear I had.
- Junkyarddawg, on 10/05/2009, -2/+1This is what amazes me the most with that russian research: in 30 years, and as many generations, they created a tame fox. Well, I've raised a fox cub as a pet, and it was completely tame and utterly non-aggressive in one year, zero generations.
So what do they actually put into the word "tame", and how are the animals treated? - hereticoftruth, on 10/05/2009, -5/+2Sounds like Civilization is an emergent field effect of those tame characteristics. Anarchists are more interested in their "Right" to do anything they please than they are in the rights of others. They cause problems and eventually the herd has to kill them off in self protection of the group, allowing those who are tamer to remain. War is an emergent field effect of wild characteristics. That is why some cultures "just can't get along". Finding the right balance of these two is what preserves Civilization within and without.
' -
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