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364 Comments
- dfsiii, on 10/12/2007, -17/+67Do they have video footage of this, or something? Are they using first-person testamonials? Are they using taxpayer money to research whether or not this event happened over 2000 years ago that in the grand scheme of religion means very little?
This just in, scientists think that the Wedding at Cana probably did not have pure wine, but more of a slightly fermented grape juice, most likely with an alcoholic content of 5%. - JoshuaWood, on 10/12/2007, -16/+53I guess it depends on what you consider "accurate" I find it hard to believe that an oral history passed down for generations and then written, and edited by people who may or may not be neutral would be very accurate at all. The whole things seems like whisper down the alley. Jesus walked in the water... Jesus walked on the water, one character difference but a change that takes you from the ordinary to the miraculous.
- cooperaa, on 10/12/2007, -35/+61A problem I see is that the most accurate account of Jesus' life says he walked on water... not ice.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -3/+25wouldn't his feet get cold? and didn't peter walk on water shortly too?
- Darthpip, on 10/12/2007, -37/+56I'm not going to attack your (lack of) faith, or what you beleive in. However I am a Christian and I will defend the Bible. Please don't call it 'fake' or a 'fairytale'. Jesus walked on water. That's what I believe in. I respect that you don't believe in it, but please don't attack the Bible.
- sixister, on 10/12/2007, -11/+30Relax people. The bible was written by humans and translated and re-scribed countless numbers of times. No two versions are exactly the same. People have the need to embellish.
Let's not start an argument on something that has nothing to do with tech... this is *maybe* science at best. - pbjorge12, on 10/12/2007, -14/+32Why is everyone modding longofest?
This new dig mod system works well...But not when religion comes into play...
Honestly, all he did was give evidence for Jesus not being a hippie and everyone marks him down...What?
And weed? When did he do weed? Tell me...Give me any proof and I will stop arguing... - JAWS, on 10/12/2007, -15/+30"The New Testament story describes Jesus walking on water in the Sea of Galilee but according to a study led by Florida State University Professor of Oceanography Doron Nof, it's more likely that he walked on an isolated patch of floating ice."
How is that attacking the Bible? Do you honestly think the bible is an accurate, unbiased view of what happened anyhow? A simple game of telephone proves how unlikely an oral history is able to carry an 'accurate' message, let alone over hundreds, or thousands of years.
I think that the submitter was respectul and didn't say 'the bible beleivers are morons' or 'it's a fairytale' or anything of the like. - fudgebrown, on 10/12/2007, -5/+20pure speculation - proves nothing.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -6/+20It also mentions that Peter went out there with him, and when he lacked in faith, he sank. So this ice must have been very moody or something...Also, wouldn't Jesus have started sinking too if they were on the same ice patch?
- pyrox420, on 10/12/2007, -20/+33Agreed. It's like saying "Jesus didn't feed the 5000... it was more like 5."
- longofest, on 10/12/2007, -62/+74hippies believed love == sex. jesus believed love was much more than that. Therefore your comment is stupid, and worth modding down.
- leadingzero, on 10/12/2007, -12/+24"Don't you find it odd that this superman you call Jesus who supposedly did all these miracles and saved the world is never mentioned anywhere else in historical texts, unlike say, Aristotle or Plato? The Jesus myth is a product of local pagan traditions of the day."
- sorry man, but you're just wrong. Jesus' life is the MOST historically verified event in our history. Time and time again the historacity of the Bible is verified as being quite accurate. Also, every major religion and historian believe that Jesus was real. You should really do your own research rather than simply spreading unverified rumors that your college professor mentioned one time in class. - Olle, on 10/12/2007, -16/+28Occams razor people.
The most likely explanation is the change of facts by the "whisper game"
A man sees Jesus arrive on a boat, standing in the bow.
He retells the story to a chain of people:
1) "Jesus arrived on the sea, standing regally on the bow, eagerly awaiting arrival"
2) "Jesus arrived by water, pacing back and forth eagerly"
3) "Jesus arrived on the water pacing eagerly"
4) "Jesus arrived on the water walking fast"
5) "Jesus walked on water"
This is by far more likely than walking on an isolated patch of ice.
Which in turn is much more likely than walking on water. - urbanaut, on 10/12/2007, -8/+19I'm gonna have to call ***** on this one I think.
- Mesach, on 10/12/2007, -10/+21Remember that Commandment "Do unto others, blah blah blah..." it applies to religion to.
Let me believe what I want to believe without trying to be converted to your religion and I will let you believe that he walked on water if that is what you wish. - longofest, on 10/12/2007, -5/+16peter then lost faith and began to sink... Jesus had to help him... but acording to the people in this forum, since Jesus must have been standing on ice, then the ice must have been practically an iceberg to withold 2 grown men's weight long enough to get them back to the boat. (yes, I exagerated to make a point)
- KyleRayner, on 10/12/2007, -5/+15"Btw, the really funny irony here is, that if *you* celebrate the 25th of December, you are actually celebrating Mithras' birthday, not Jesus'."
I grew up JW, and now Im agnostic. I never have, and never will celebrate the pagan blasphemy which has been corrupted to a greedy money-making scheme called Christmas. Nowhere in the Bible did it ever say to celebrate Jesus' birthday, and nobody in the Bible ever did. - Olle, on 10/12/2007, -2/+12jlowe,
I'm modding you up. Not because I agree with you. In fact, I think your points are unfounded. But your self righteous fundamentalist post actually hurts the very cause you are trying to help.
Next time, before you argue, decide what you feel is more important:
1) For you to blow off some steam.
2) To further your cause.
Today you picked 1. - o0joshua0o, on 10/12/2007, -12/+22In a related story, it's been discovered that the Tooth Fairy isn't the one who leaves money under your pillow.
- sgtawol, on 10/12/2007, -1/+10wow, digg needs a 'no religion, no politics' policy. There's nothing that people are more stubborn about and yet everyone thinks that they can convince everyone else.
Stop arguing, it's pointless. Believe what you want and let others do the same. - thatedeguy, on 10/12/2007, -12/+21Isolated patch of ice? Does the sea of Galilee ever freeze? And how think would an isolated patch of ice need to be for a 170 pound man to walk on? Couple of inches? Sounds like another silly attempt by scientists to debunk something that they haven't been able to as yet. They keep trying and people keep believing...
- Blackflip, on 10/12/2007, -6/+15Even IF this would have happened, how comes Peter walked towards Jesus? Oh right there were some ice around the boat too. Jesus WALKED towards the boat of the disciples, he didnt float towards them.
This is so hilarious.
And even IF this had happened, its still a miracle, because Jesus managed to be there exactly at the right moment as this icethingy floated to the beach and back to the middle of the sea.
COME ON you guys, i suppose you just got too much time on your hands, read the Bible... - dromeditor, on 10/12/2007, -1/+10ziffel: "Don't you find it odd that this superman you call Jesus who supposedly did all these miracles and saved the world is never mentioned anywhere else in historical texts, unlike say, Aristotle or Plato? The Jesus myth is a product of local pagan traditions of the day"
Tacitus' Annals relate the historical narrative from Augustus%u2019 death in A.D.14 to Nero%u2019s death in A.D. 68. The Histories begin their narrative after Nero%u2019s death and finish with Domitian%u2019s death in A.D. 96. In his section describing Nero%u2019s decision to blame the fire of Rome on the Christians, Tacitus affirms that the founder of Christianity, a man he calls Chrestus (a common misspelling of Christ, which was Jesus%u2019 surname), was executed by Pilate, the procurator of Judea during the reign of the Roman emperor Tiberias
Suetonius was a Roman historian and a court official in Emperor Hadrian%u2019s government. In his Life of Claudius he refers to Claudius expelling Jews from Rome on account of their activities on behalf of a man Suetonius calls Chrestus
Pliny (the Younger) was the Governor of Bithynia in Asia Minor (AD. 112). He was responsible for executing Christians for not worshipping or bowing down to a statue of the emperor Trajan. In a letter to the emperor Trajan, he describes how the people on trial for being Christians would describe how they sang songs to Christ because he was a god.
Josephus was a Jewish historian who was born in either 37 or 38 AD and died some time after 100 AD. He wrote the Jewish Antiquites and in one famous passage described Jesus as a wise man, a doer of wonderful works and calls him the Christ. He also affirmed that Jesus was executed by Pilate
Just a few examples... - NoOnEx, on 10/12/2007, -2/+11Wow jlowe64, I'm not sure what society you live in, but in almost all modern societies the burden of proof is on the believer. There is no "burden of disproof". If you think there is a 12 eyed frog in a pond somewhere, its not up to the rest of the world to disprove you, its up to you to prove there is. Look at the legal system, you have to prove someone did something, its not up to the defense to disprove it. If you logic is correct, I believe we all evolved from plastic G. I. Joe figures from Saturn. Now its up to you to waste your time disproving it..... and when you are done I have a list of 100000000000000000 other things that are "in your court" because I just made them up and its now up to you to disprove them......
- theragu40, on 10/12/2007, -2/+10I consider myself to be a science-savvy Christian. I'm not against evolution, etc. The thing is, most Christians are fairly science savvy. The problem is, the only ones who ever speak up are the extreme-conservative fundamentalists, and it gives us Christians a bad name. This is really irritating to me, because it just serves to create more animosity for Christians, including Christians who are more enlightened to scientific fact.
As far as this issue is concerned, this study doesn't really bother me. My stance on scientific studies in relation to miracles is that often the explanation is so obscure and far-fetched that if that is what scientifically happened, then I consider that to be a miracle in and of itself.
What most fundamentalist Christians (and even the people who try to refute these same fundamentalists) refuse to consider is that if God created the world, he has the power to do as he pleases. But this doesn't mean that what he has done must be inexplicable. So he made Jesus walk on water by forming ice under him by a process that happened only a few times in 12,000 years. This doesn't make it not a miracle.
The complete refusal of scientific fact and absolute adherence to Scripture as fact is not only ignorant, but it isn't in line with church teaching (at least for Catholicism). The church may have its problems, but it does not purport to completely ignore blatant scientific facts like evolution.
That being said, I agree with some of the above comments that this article is pure speculation, but it seems to me that the researchers admit the same thing ("As natural scientists, we simply explain that unique freezing processes probably happened in that region only a handful of times during the last 12,000 years," Nof said. "We leave to others the question of whether or not our research explains the biblical account"). He is not purporting to discount the bible as the title of this Digg suggests, he is only providing a potential explanation, and in my book there is no reason to ostracize someone for speculating. God gave us reason, why not use it? - kevinmoore, on 06/13/2009, -1/+9You obviously didn't read the article. They said it was cold there between 2,000 and 1,500 years ago.
- ziffel, on 10/12/2007, -10/+18"Whats funny is, I bet you celebrate this "superman's" birthday dont you?"
That's a bet you would lose. Btw, the really funny irony here is, that if *you* celebrate the 25th of December, you are actually celebrating Mithras' birthday, not Jesus'. You see, Christmas the 25th of december, and a virgin birth are all borrowed from the Mithraic fable that pre-dated Jesus by hundreds of years.
"Why the heck do atheists celebrate Christmas anyway? o.O"
What makes you think we do? And by the way, another FYI, not everyone who believes the bible is bunk is an atheist. - banjk, on 10/12/2007, -1/+9Keep in mind that the first biblical account of Jesus was written more than 100 years after his death based on accounts of dead people who "saw" Jesus.(according to the Oxford Study Bible).
It also helps to remember that there is no real discription of Jesus outside of the Bible. So, if he was such an important historical figure, why didn't anyone else describe him?
Then, of course, keep in mind that Jesus may have simply been viewed as a local rablerouser and had no real significance to the government/society at the time of his death.
And, of course, texts do exist (they were even removed from the Apocropha) claiming that Jesus never really died. Instead he was married to Mary (the prositute version) and was considered a Rabbi (thus is why she could touch him...not to mention the fact that she called him "Rabbi".) The book that was removed was called "The Children of Christ (or something similar to that.) It talks of the children Jesus. A great sore on the face of Christianity that is getting some real "airplay" right now.
That's about it. I don't think it was ice. I think he just waded into the water and the account was then elevated to a miracle. Either that or he just knew how to swim. Or, maybe it was a miracle that his robes didn't weigh him down and drown the man!
Heheh, have fun. - TardHelmet, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8Even if the ice were possible, how would any one from isreal know a- what it is, b- i can walk on it to show off for people. ( i'm not religious, but i have a tough time swallowing this one)
- Poolshark19, on 10/12/2007, -7/+14i think he works for this roofing company down the road from me... he rides in a van for a labor ready company. hell of a worker that jesus
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -8/+15It's because your views go against science, common sense and logic, which infuriates anyone who has at least one of these properties
- Trjn, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8I can't believe I'm about to say this, but RTFA.
They are saying that there is a phenomenon in which ice DOES form there, and that during the time of Christ it is possible that it happened and that is an explanation.
Personally though, I don't think this means anything, the faithful will believe what they believe, that's why it's called faith. Whether he walked on water or cheated and abused a natural phenomenon, it really doesn't matter, Christians will continue to believe that he is the son of God.
I may be an athiest, but I know full well that you can prove/disprove anything that happens in the Bible or any other religious ideas, and that still won't sway people from believing in it. To most people, Scientology sounds completely bloody stupid, but people still believe in it. - ziffel, on 10/12/2007, -28/+34Please don't attack the bible? are you kidding? Why not, can't your bible handle attacks? If it's true it should be able to withstand attack. As it is though, it's not true. It's a fairy tale created by men thousands of years ago to explain things they didn't understand at the time.
Don't you find it odd that this superman you call Jesus who supposedly did all these miracles and saved the world is never mentioned anywhere else in historical texts, unlike say, Aristotle or Plato? The Jesus myth is a product of local pagan traditions of the day.
Do you really believe in a God who sent bears to maul and eat children? who condoned slavery? who is supposedly infinite love but if you cross one single time he'll throw you in a pit and set you on fire? - Mousse, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7Best deal? How about Islam, Judaism, Hinduism, Buddhism and the rest? They all promise much of the same things and claim to be the real deal. Sorry, religions are nice and all, but I'm not interested with magical stories.
- andesco, on 10/12/2007, -10/+16As a Catholic let me just say I agree somewhat. Jesus was a bit of a hippie. He wasn't smoking weed, but I still picture him as a hippie.
- stealthboy, on 10/12/2007, -21/+27So just because God chose to follow natural laws to accomplish a task in miraculous timing, that means "science wins" or something? Come on, now.
I can explain the parting of the Red Sea in natural terms, but does that make it any less a miracle? - Dren, on 10/12/2007, -10/+16Jesus is the man, and still is today.
How 'bout when he was crucified then three days later rose from the dead? - cybernetic798, on 10/12/2007, -4/+10I'm glad studies like this are being done. I am an atheist but I am not anti-religion either - however I feel it is important to make people understand that a lot of theological works contain material that is not to be taken at total face value. This doesn't mean that these works are wrong it just means that they need to be re-interpreted - you have to understand that some are written to be semi-historical, some are exaggerated, and henceforth.
Also, I am interested in what science-savvy Christians have to say of this - where do you draw the line between science and religion because this likely isn't the last of the overlap. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -6/+12http://education.guardian.co.uk/higher/research/story/0,,869488,00.html
and love doesn't have to equal sex...even for a hippie. - andesco, on 10/12/2007, -6/+12stealthboy: wonderful way of putting it. I wouldn't have thought of it like that, so excellent point.
- DrRo183, on 10/12/2007, -2/+8Ok...so let's say it was a patch of ice...you gotta be pretty damn good in balancing on a patch of ice if you ask me. Now, walking on a patch of ice is tougher still. Maybe a big patch of ice? But if the boat was there too...
o.O - beanstalk, on 10/12/2007, -10/+16You just summed up the entire bible....
- kherrick, on 10/12/2007, -3/+9Relax man... here's a verse for you... and the idea is that others thought that he was a carpenter... Mark 6:3 "Isn't this the carpenter? Isn't this Mary's son and the brother of James, Joseph,[a] Judas and Simon? Aren't his sisters here with us? ..."
- thesauce, on 10/12/2007, -36/+42i love how every time a religious related topic comes up, every bitter atheist in the world tries to throw his own cheap shot in the discussion. keep it up! you honestly keep us faithful going.
- WiseWeasel, on 10/12/2007, -8/+14"Why the heck do atheists celebrate Christmas anyway? o.O"
Presents, sex, food and booze... Plus, we get time off work...
"And what is this nonsense about oral history? The gospels are eyewitness accounts, written down by the very people who were with Jesus when He performed His ministry. How is it that people believe this oral history nonsense?"
You dumbass... get your facts straight before spouting off some random argument. Jesus was dead for over 100 years by the time any gospels were written... - chatwithaninja, on 10/12/2007, -6/+12Christmas was a pagan holiday that was taken over by the christians to spread their religion. Winter solstice. Just like easter - spring solstice.
Or something like that. besides, who sits down on christmas eve and does worship? My family opens presents... Oh, and I do pray for a new game for my xbox... does that count? - musicbear, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5With the state of pollution in the oceans and the theory of global warming bringing us some major hazards ahead, it sounds like this "oceanographer" really needs to turn their attention to something more important... and on behalf of all Floridians I apologize for this incredible amount of 'debunking' silliness... now... back to our regular sniping about tech...
- Charlotte_Web, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5Why is it that people in the modern age assume that people from millenia past were dumb as posts? Don't you think that people in the NT times knew the difference between ice and water?
Oh, and djdole, the reason Jesus is believed to have been a carpenter is also because his father was a carpenter. It was commonplace for sons to follow in the footsteps of their fathers, career-wise. - colebarnes, on 10/12/2007, -3/+8Yet another completely pointless debate.
You do realize that the science people are never going to convince the faith people and the faith people are just seen as morons to the science people.
And, you other "christians" out there who are telling everybody here that they are stupid for not believing and that they're on a fast track to hell... What an amazing witness that is... Good job guys... You are officially your own worst enemy... -
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