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158 Comments
- AugustusOsari, on 06/17/2008, -0/+41The universe is a representation of the laws of the universe.
MAKES SENSE. - inactive, on 06/17/2008, -8/+26I think he has it backwards. Math, like language, is a way of representing something. With language its loosely based most of the time, where math is very precise. But math itself is just a way to represent something and not the thing itself.
- CatalunyaBob, on 06/17/2008, -6/+23suddenly the universe seems much less interesting.
- inactive, on 06/17/2008, -1/+16You are hurling through space at thousands of miles an hour while spinning on a huge ball of dirt, magma and water around an even bigger ball of fire with trillions of other planets and stars doing the same thing.
- BigCheezy, on 06/17/2008, -0/+13This is different. Tegmark is claiming that the universe IS mathematics. So far, scientists (representing the school of thought of empiricism) generally only go so far as to say that we can see that the universe in some circumstances can be modeled by mathematics. Saying that the universe IS mathematics is a huge ontological leap from what the mainstream scientific community feels it is justified to claim.
- akula89, on 06/17/2008, -0/+13well I do, so the universe can ***** right off.
- teddyrux, on 06/17/2008, -1/+13After reading this article, you find the universe seems less interesting? The universe IS math is his theory and somehow your mind isn't blown. I just don't get that. I haven't slept yet and all I want to do is think about how I can further wrap my mind around this. The universe is only more interesting today than it was yesterday.
- busch30pack, on 06/17/2008, -5/+17If it is, I know the answer: 42.
- humanerror, on 06/17/2008, -2/+12Damn. I always knew I was terrible at math. Now it turns out I suck at Universe.
- Toshibi, on 06/17/2008, -0/+9Are you saying that pi is a 216 digit numberor are you talking about e (which approximates to 2.71)? Pi is a non-repeating, non-terminating, relationship between a circles circumference and diameter in a flat space. In a curved space that relationship can be anything depending upon the amount of curvature, much like in a curved space you can have a triangle whose angles add up to more or less than 180 degrees.
- PauliAnna, on 06/17/2008, -5/+14The universe is made of Meth.
- LucasVB, on 06/17/2008, -0/+9"I am accustomed, as a professional mathematician, to living in a sort of vacuum, surrounded by people who declare with an odd sort of pride that they are mathematically illiterate." - David Mumford
- humanerror, on 06/17/2008, -0/+8That was a private message from Xenu intended specifically for you.
- Toshibi, on 06/17/2008, -0/+7This is very interesting and reminds me of digital physics. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_physics
This is actually the cosmology that I prefer. - bsweeney1977, on 06/17/2008, -0/+6Does this mean that people can fail the Universe?
- evildeadguy, on 06/17/2008, -0/+6I work for UPS and I can attest to the universe being made of ***** packed boxes and other peoples orders.
- NanoStuff, on 06/17/2008, -3/+9"But math itself is just a way to represent something and not the thing itself."
You obviously missed the point. Math is the "thing itself". Math isn't an invention, it's natural. We merely have symbols to represent it.
The theory makes perfect sense. All the more so when you take Occam's Razor into consideration. It's the simplest working explanation that doesn't require abstract existential definition for describing what "physical" really is. - vexvex, on 06/17/2008, -1/+7I love how mathematicians who believe the old platonic ideals of mathematics and nature are eager to say 'it's all number!' and yet mention nothing about the paradoxes that abound within the field:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Mathematics_ ...
Remember what happened to the guy who told pythagoras that his theory of mathematical "purity" produced the flaw that the square root of 2 was inexpressable as the ratio of any two supposedly "pure" integers.......
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hippasus
Mathematicians are good at math, but any decent graduate student philosopher can rip them a new one when it comes to metaphysical arguments. I would know. I am a math graduate student, i have plenty of philosophy majors for friends. - inactive, on 06/17/2008, -2/+7it hates you too. stop posting
- Chirp08, on 06/17/2008, -2/+7What always gets me is "why?" Think about it, even if you believe in god and all that, it still gives absolutely no reason why the universe exists, why planets exist, why people exist, why any of this is here at all. That is mind blowing to me.
- inactive, on 06/17/2008, -0/+5He isn't saying that the universe is explained and modeled with math. He's saying the Universe is made up of math. You're nothing but a pile of math.
- inactive, on 06/17/2008, -0/+5Where did you get the idea that you can't take the square root of zero? This is wrong. The square root of zero is zero.
- rompom7, on 06/17/2008, -0/+4What the ***** are you guys talking about?
- gaoshan, on 06/17/2008, -0/+4I saw the same thing. Since I live in rural northeast ohio... it pretty much is, sadly, made of meth.
- Noriv, on 06/17/2008, -1/+5Am I the only one who got Scientology video channel ad on this site?
- zadadka, on 06/17/2008, -1/+5Brought to you by the S.S. Heart of Gold and its Improbability Drive.
- inactive, on 06/17/2008, -2/+6Stone him!
- groumpf, on 06/17/2008, -0/+4Actually, Tegmark did study quantum decoherence in the human brain, and explained that it was indeed subject to quantum effects, but that the complexity of the environment made the quantum state superposition disappear after only a few picoseconds. I might have the article somewhere over here... definitely not light reading, though.
And yes, quantum physics can be "explained" on a mathematical level: Hilbert spaces. - wonderbriefs, on 06/17/2008, -0/+4"In Everett’s view, the wave function doesn’t collapse, and the Schrödinger equation always holds."
I love it. - wonderbriefs, on 06/17/2008, -3/+7Wow, way to make assumptions without reading (or maybe reading but not comprehending) the article. First look at how from view from outside of what we know of existence, forgetting about the role of the observer; time exists inside but not out. This is described in plenty of mathematical structures that call for the existence of multiple dimensions, like most of string-theory and supergravity theory. Take it a step further and consider the infinite universes idea. Add together all possible universes, all born from infinite big bangs, all as a static and unchanging structure where-in the concept of time is only an illusion to the observer passing through it. What's the use of saying that all of this infinity is made of anything more than the only things that we can use to describe it with?
- ultrafez, on 06/17/2008, -0/+4Don't read the article then... quite simple really. Leave commenting to people who like maths, or who have something constructive to say.
- angilinmago, on 06/17/2008, -0/+3The Matrix IV-Tegmark's universe
- ajb2015, on 06/17/2008, -0/+3Chirp is being dugg down, but this is actually the question that led Heidegger to get away from metaphysics (like this guys) to the more fundamental question of Being. Not, beings, but Being as such. For centuries philosopher's tried to define Being as a being, just as this guy is trying to do. Anyway, if you are interested in the question, don't look to math or physics (which overlook the question), read Heidegger.
- MikeSD34, on 06/17/2008, -0/+3We use language to describe an object by attaching a name or value to something, the name rose, to the object. The object exists in nature whether it has a name or not, and our discovering it and naming it doesn't mean we created it.
I believe there's a long standing debate as to whether the concept of mathematics is one created by the human mind, or one that is inherent in nature that is merely discovered. It's true there are things in this universe that fit very well into a mathematical model, almost too well. The article describes a similar concept in which the math is not just inherent to the universe, it is the universe. - groumpf, on 06/17/2008, -0/+3Link to the article. Just reading the abstract should give a better understanding of why we may not consider the quantum aspect of things when talking about brains and mind.
http://www.hep.upenn.edu/~max/brain.pdf - rawg, on 06/17/2008, -0/+3Heresy! Throw him overboard!
- inactive, on 06/17/2008, -0/+3He appears to be saying something different. He appears to be saying that the world is made up of maths not that it can be expressed or described by maths.
According to Tegmark, “there is only mathematics; that is all that exists.” - inactive, on 06/17/2008, -4/+7Absolutely absurd. First off, simply invoking Occam's Razor is a piss poor way to prove something. When you invoke Occam's Razor, you've only proven that one idea is simpler than the other. Second, by saying that Math is reality, you HAVE used an abstract existential definition to describe what physical reality is.
I agree with trixterIreland... this guy has it wrong. Math is simply a tool for modeling physical systems. The electrons in a resistor-capacitor circuit don't say "Oh, I'm governed by this physical thing called a differential equation, I better do what it tells me to." The interaction between the amount of electrons and their rate of movement are what determines the behavior of the electrons, and differential equations are simply the best tool to model the system. - NanoStuff, on 06/17/2008, -1/+4"Second, by saying that Math is reality, you HAVE used an abstract existential definition to describe what physical reality is."
There's nothing abstract about math. It's a much better explanation than "reality is real and that's it". Reality doesn't explain reality, math does.
"The interaction between the amount of electrons and their rate of movement are what determines the behavior of the electrons"
You've explained the behavior of electrons and described the cause of the behavior, but you have not explained what causes the cause. Saying "it's a fundamental physical force and that's it" seems inadequate. Suggesting there is a mathematical foundation does explain what creates these natural parameters to begin with. - zionKing, on 06/17/2008, -0/+3I respect this guy's original thinking and would be eager to understand the technical basis if I had any chance to understand the math (which I don't). That said, this whole thing reminds me of the saying "if you own a hammer, everything starts to look like a nail."
But if the universe is only math, then computing has a hell of a bright future. - apeweek, on 06/17/2008, -0/+3This is also the same conclusion we would be forced to come to if we all existed as computer simulations.
- Terr01, on 06/17/2008, -0/+3That makes me think of a Terry-Pratchett-ism from the Discworld books...
"Wizards don't believe in Gods the same way that most people don't find it necessary to believe in, say, tables. They know they're there, they know they're there for a purpose, they'd probably agree that they have a place in a well-organized universe, but they wouldn't see the point in *believing*, of going around saying: "Oh great Table, without whom we are as naught." Anyway, either the gods are there whether you believe it or not, or exist only as a function of belief, so either way you might as well ignore the whole business and, as it were, eat off your knees. " - ultrafez, on 06/17/2008, -0/+3From a mathematician's point of view, do you realise how stupid your comment sounds?
- Dylson, on 06/17/2008, -1/+3Uranus is a gas giant so that is indeed relevant.
- truthhurts28, on 06/17/2008, -1/+3I just farted, solve it with math.
- ZenMojo, on 06/17/2008, -0/+2There is only philosophy. No more, no less.
- Riggs, on 06/17/2008, -0/+2Math is definitely the key. In physics, all the concepts are built upon underlying math principles that always hold true. For example, E&M is basically all just applications of the divergence theorem and other math.
- RonBurgundy76, on 06/17/2008, -0/+2Whether or not I agree with you, that was most certainly an interesting post and worthy of more thought. Thanks :)
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