What is Digg?202 Comments
- yonbeastie, on 10/12/2007, -3/+60The article is right! I asked a deaf friend of mine about this (I can't believe I never thought of it before), and he informed me that his internal dialogue is in sign. Very cool.
- draegloth, on 10/12/2007, -4/+45think about this: what kind of nightmares do newborns have? what's scary if you've never experienced a horror movie or ghost story or falling or anything else that most people think of as scary?
I'm betting it has something to do with smurfs. - lilazndrumrboy, on 10/12/2007, -5/+24haha.......smurfs........i'd personally think teletubbies to be the subject of the evil.......*quoted from a scholastic bowl question*
"What toddler's television show depicts disturbing pseudo-infants clad in colored uniforms with corresponding shapes and un-pronounciable names worshipping a god which consists of a baby's face superimposed on the sun?.."
i swear, everyone burst out laughing when they heard this question read off........... - Roger, on 10/12/2007, -0/+19lol. You can volunteer your first born.
- willink, on 10/12/2007, -4/+19I think in C++
- thidranki, on 10/12/2007, -7/+20wouldn't he just think in the same language he reads though?
- moylan, on 10/12/2007, -2/+15And of course the other question is, do blind people dream in images?
- overmann, on 10/12/2007, -2/+13It varies, some phrases are hard to translate between certain languages, so you end up thinking in both languages. At least I do. :o
- WaterDragon, on 10/12/2007, -0/+11I speak a little Spanish, but have had dreams in which I was quite fluent.
I also have had dreams in which I spoke perfect Chinese, even though I've never studied it....at least I think it was perfect. :-) Those were rare dreams, though...mabe one or twice.
But seriously...
Most dreams are in pure 'forms', and written/spoken language is only superimposed when we try to recall them or describe them.
One could also ask.....do colorblind people dream in color?
Again, what is recalled from or used to describe the dream, after the fact, is NOT what was going on in the actual 'dream state', but is merely a retrospective description in kind.
I've often seen dogs or cats dreaming, as evidenced by noticeable REM, subtle movements of paws, face, and subdued... barking,etc...But I don't think anyone would sugggest that dogs or cats have a spoken or written language.
Of course, when a dog later tries to explain his dream to you, he may use a language.
e.g. WOOF, Woof Woof...woof! --or even Woof?
LMAO sry! - WiseWeasel, on 10/12/2007, -1/+12It varies, but for me, it's typically in the 'dominant' language, since I do have more experience with one than the other, even though I was raised speaking both...
- DNABeast, on 10/12/2007, -1/+12My wife noticed that after learning English for almost a year she starting having some dreams in English.
- Roger, on 10/12/2007, -2/+12Thats cool. Wonder if you'd think better if you learnt a more "efficient" language (compared to english)?
- sergeii, on 10/12/2007, -1/+11I'm trilingual and I think in the language that I've been using most recently.
If one language is used more than another, multilingual people are more likely to think in their most used/developed language. - the1casey, on 10/12/2007, -2/+12@shinynew,
Hellen Keller cannot read and write, for she is six feet under. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -2/+11Yeah, ive had spanish for about 4 years now, I am not great but im pretty decent. Sometimes i think in spanish, its kind of weird.....
One time i had a dream in spanish
*****On a completly unrelated note, I have realized that you cannot replay to replys, you can only reply to a comment, and not to the reply. I think that our comment system should be more like slashdots so we can have much more in depth conversation. - aMMgYrP, on 10/12/2007, -2/+11@draegloth
There is some evidence that the fear mechanisms associated with fire, reptiles, birds of prey and large cats are imprinted in our psyche before birth. It is also theorized that for this same reason that Dragons are culturally ubiquitous, they being a combination of those instinctual fear triggers. So there is a good chance that babies have nightmares about 'Dragons' (or the various aspects of them) and possibly abandonment. - Roger, on 10/12/2007, -1/+9I've always wonder this.
Also, do multilingual people think in one particular language or does it vary? - buss, on 10/12/2007, -1/+9The article makes a mistake in the first sentence of the response. Download and listen to this podcast: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5165123 . Its from NPR's Science Friday and its a conversation with Temple Grandin. She is autistic and thinks, as she says, as animals do: not in any language, but in pictures. It is possible to think like a human without any language.
An excerpt from her book can be found at: http://www.grandin.com/inc/visual.thinking.html - markybob, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7not always true. i learned portuguese first and i still speak it fluently, but i think mostly in english.
- Cykaos, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8I speak English as a native language and then fluent spanish, portuguese and American Sign Language (I don't speak it but you get the point)
I often dream and sometimes think in the 3 languages. I have never thought in sign language though one time I did dream I was talking to someone in sign.
The thought processes are like someone else mentioned where you tend to think in the language you are currently using (if you are fluent in several) or if you are not quite fluent you often are speaking in one language but thinkign and mentally translating in another. Like you see a dog and you think dog but say perro (spanish). Once you are fluent and in spanish mode you no longer think dog.. you see it and it's instantly perro.
Math is another wierd thing with languages. Even if I am in Brazil or something and thinking in portuguese I still tend to do math in english. - Biomechanical, on 10/12/2007, -3/+10Very interesting topic.
To had my own juxtaposition on this, I sometimes dream in foreign languages, but the only language I can read or write is english. It is not uncommon for me to wake up mumbling something in german or japanese, and have no idea what I'm saying. Could be all those foreign films I like to watch. :)
On the flip side, I've never seen a perfectly round square or a four sided triangle in real life, but I've seen them in dreams that I've had, especially while sick with a mild cold or flu.
Being sick also tends to trigger what I call "speedy perception". Some of you may relate to this, but I'd still be surprised.
While asleep, I'll dream about something someone is saying to me, and being polite I'll focus on them, but I won't see them, I'll see the component mist that is their atomic structure. Millions upon millions of little atoms, gradually vibrating faster and faster until they're almost humming in my ears and then I wake up.
The scary part about "speedy perception" is that it remains for about an hour after waking up. Watching myself sit still feels like I'm moving slower than time, and if I move I might be able to move faster than time. Not a good time to operate heavy machinery.
That leads me to the question someone posted earlier, "Do blind people see images in dreams?"
I think so, but I don't think that the imagery would be like anything in real life. Sounds would trigger shades, shapes would be formed by thoughts of whether something was pleasant or unpleasant. A pleasant woman's sultry voice might create the dream-shape of a soft, shapely, light-coloured figure that flows smoothly over a landscape of gently rippling velvet-like surface, while a harsh word or an abrupt person might be blocky and dark but startlingly stretchy, getting in your face all the time.
The brain is a wierd place. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8I speak portuguese (main language) and english, some lines of thought are in english because there is no equivalent in portuguese.
- DrMindHacker, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6 The statement that people cannot think without language is completely false. Language is only
*a* tool of cognition (and hence communication). The expression of our thoughts, through communication,
is the primary means by which others have means to evaluate our ability to think but it also isn't the only
means.
Another, more powerful, tool of cognition is visualization. The human mind creates models of the
world and uses analysis and synthesis on those models to understand (and alter ones understanding)
of nature. A neanderthal, lacking language, can observe certain game flocking at a nearby river during
certain times of the day and deduce that as the best place to hunt - this does not require language but
requires grasping causality and acting accordingly, which is thinking. He may not be able to verbalize
the process by which his mind made such a decision but it was an intelligent one nevertheless. - ph34rhk, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6Yeah, my family is deaf so I'm bilingual (partially tri- with German), and I dream in sign language sometimes as well as english or german.
- bmson, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7I speak four languages. Icelandic, English, danish and German.
I think in Icelandic (my main language), but sometimes in English. It depends...
I've had a one dream in English, that was a strange feeling - BGFeltenink, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6That's true about blind people dreaming in other senses. Many people say you can't 'feel' or 'smell' in a dream but even as a fairly normal (not blind or deaf) human being I have experienced dreams that involved smelling something, feeling, and even tasting. It's different from the real thing, like when you imagine what cinnamon tastes like, however because you are usually fairly certain the dream is 'real' it feels a lot more true than simple imagination.
My theory is that our existence and brain process is ***** strange. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6I speak three languages, Bosnian, Norwegian & English. I usually think in Bosnian, but occasinally in English and Norwegian.
- jefree, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5When I think I use both pictures and a silent inner voice that is speaking in my main language. If I blur and ignore any attempt at silent vocalization (speaking thought) then my mind travels in images of what I'm considering.
Try pretending that the language you understand and being spoken is unknown to you sometime. It's easy. Just blur your recognition of syllables and sounds while listening. It's really cool and you get a taste of what you native language must sound like to someone who has never heard it. - Godel, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6It varies, my wife thinks in English when she's around me and in Hmong when she is around her family.
- TopherT, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5I for one am interested in exactly what is meant by thinking in sign, I feel that saying that congenitally deaf people think in sign sidesteps the question. When one thinks in sign do they visualize hands? Would you visualize the hands from your own perspective or from that of someone signing 'at you'. How can you have an inner monologue with your eyes open if you need to pseudo-visually process your own thoughts?
While thought provoking this article leaves me with only more questions. - philrenaud, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6"Can you think without language? Answer: Nope"
This is way off track: language/thought research is being done, and there is a pretty huge divide between whether or not our thinking works in a linguistic way.
Some say it does (Fodor @ Rutgers, other classicists), some say it doesn't (Patricia and Paul Churchland, UC Berkeley).
In terms of artificial intelligence, cognitive science and psychology, and epistemology, this is a distinction that is taken very seriously; it would be a mistake to simply assume that we can't have thoughts without language. - mattgilberg, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6how did hellen keller think? she learned the word for water but that was it and she became a very intelligent woman.
- kokayi, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7I've seen this too. One of the most amazing things I've seen is a deaf guy sign to himself. Great looking out with the Straight Dope by Cecil Adams. I've been reading Straight Dope for years. Cecil rock. I glad he's been dugg.
- Roger, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6Ha. I think in assembly.
- spectre_25gt, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4I don't know about that. It may sound a little crazy but I've spent some time trying to figure out how to think without thinking in a language. I don't know about others, but I've noticed that I usually think a complete thought and then I'll sort-of translate that into english. I always wondered if I could speed up my thought process by cutting out the language.
That being said, I know very little japanese, but every once in a while I'll think in japanese for a moment or two. I think it's mostly due to the emphasis I put on learning the language, though. I guess I half-concoiusly choose to think in japanese to help myself learn it. - crackerjack, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4That is completely different from what I learned in my Psychology class. The professor taught us that humans do not think in any language; that we think is on a higher scale and we form the language in our head. So, yeah, it makes sense that a deaf person would formulate signs instead of letters, but everyone can think fine without it. Unfortunately, it would be impossible to show what your thinking without a language of some kind... naturally.
- jasonhazel, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4my mother is deaf and i ask her all the time if she dreams in english or ASL. she confirms on a yearly basis that she dreams in sign language.... no sound at all.
i catch myself signing to myself all the time... it's mostly just spelling words that i'm thinking in english, but i get weird looks when i'm caught. - Florian, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4I listened to the Temple Grandin story when it first came out on Science Friday. Ms. Grandin seemed to think about things just like i do. I somehow didn't quite get how her observations of the world were any different than mine.
- DogHumpsMonkey, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5Wow, what odd timing for this article to be posted. I was just thinking about this yesterday after speaking (writing actually) with a deaf woman at work. Thanks for posting this. dugg
- jasonhazel, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3there are differences in dialects when it comes to american sign language as well. i've grown up around deaf people all my life and when i come in contact with someone from a different part of the US there is still a slight "language barrier"
- booc0mtaco, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3I think the important thing to keep in mind is that language is a way of organizing information. Sure, some things can be thought out fully without any sort of cognitive language (reaction to danger, or other emotional stimulus). Most people would never fully think in words, "Hey, this has made me want to laugh" or "Wow, now I am really pissed"
As a framework, language allows us to think and process new information far better than all other creatures. We can use it to transfer information without even having the experience at hand. Think in terms of school, where you learn about past experiments or people who lived long ago.
To me the difference is the same as comparing an image of a full webpage, to the HTML and other code for the same page. They appear the same, but one has to store a lot more information for that image, whereas the html is coded and far more compact and accessible. In essence, trying to think deeply outside of language is probably more work than just using it.
my two pence - endlessoul, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4Interesting comment. Sounds like you have an active brain.
Have you done any drugs to help that along?
(Not trying to flame. Honest question.) - justinus, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3it's about the same as what languages you use when you're dreaming.
- salmonmoose, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5It's interesting that there is an assumption that people actually think in a language. Personally my thoughts very rarely involve words, usually images, and concepts; to the point that often I have no idea how to describe something, but can sketch things with little to no effort.
And yes, my friends will not play pictionary with me anymore :) - liquidcoooled, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4How would they be able to explain the concept of colors?
If they have never seen they will never know. - prontai, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4I'm not fluent in any languages beyond English, however I have taken French, Italian, and Latin in school for verying lengths of time and have found myself: dreaming in French and Latin, cursing and having random exclamations in French and Italian, and often times certain phrases run through my head in any of the three languages, particularly the ones that seem to be more descriptive than their English counterparts.
- lilazndrumrboy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3uh....the universal swear would probably where i put up the number 4 when counting in binary on my fingers (the middle finger)......unless that's what you ment by grabbing purposes..........lol........
- Nemesiz, on 10/12/2007, -3/+6But most people are not color blind. They are color weak. They are unable to distinguish certain colors. People who are 'Color blind (weak)' are not truly blind to all color so that it is a gray scale. They just see things as different colors because they can not 'process' certain wave lengths. So they see purple as blue, and colors like cyan do not exist to them, but they do not see cyan as a shade of gray. Being truly color blind is very rare, while most males are some what color weak.
- andreparis, on 10/12/2007, -6/+9read the language instinct by dr. steven pinker
http://pinker.wjh.harvard.edu/ - MrTea, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Nah, I mean "purposes" as private parts.:P
-
Show 51 - 100 of 199 discussions
The Digg Toolbar for Firefox lets you Digg, submit content, and keep track of Digg even when you're not on the Digg site. Download the official 
© Digg Inc. 2009
— Content created and posted by Digg users is