What is Digg?77 Comments
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -2/+33Also, what about poisonous animals with their red/yellow/black markings. That probably had something to do with the evolution of colour vision too.
The whole emotion thing seems like complete bollocks. Hell, guys STILL haven't figured out how to 'read' female emotions yet :) - Godric, on 10/12/2007, -1/+19I don't know why they dismiss the fruit arguement so easily. Why does it have to be either-or?
- KidVicious, on 10/12/2007, -0/+14If a deadly poisonous frog is walking around, why would he need to see warning signs of posion? He's not going to poison himself.
- StarManta, on 10/12/2007, -2/+11"A lot of brightly coloured poisonous animals (frogs, etc) are actually colourblind themselves. Explain that one."
They aren't poisonous to themselves. - Djerrid, on 10/12/2007, -1/+10This seems like a poor study. Not only did color vision evolve in primates long before humans evolved, our ancestors were all dark-skinned enough that we wouldn't be able to detect a blush anyway.
- 36linescreen, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6Really out to say "Primates evolved color vision ..." as it did not first appear in humans, or even hominids but in ancestral primates
- sundancekid503, on 10/12/2007, -4/+9Sounds like a load of crap
- AeonTorpor, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Detecting emotion? Human skin tone doesn't contain much (if any) blue. Why would we evolve the ability to see blue if this were the case?
Human skin does contain red and yellow, so according to this, it would seem that humans would have an easier time seeing these colors. However, that is not exactly the case. Humans have the easiest time seeing a shade of yellowish green. And because the human skin tone doesn't contain much of blue, but it does contain a good amount of yellow, that means it lacks green.
Why would a yellowish green/greenish yellow be easiest for humans to see if our awareness of the color spectrum evolved specifically to see red changes in a yellowish skin tone? This article doesn't seem to make a good case for this theory they've proposed. Granted this could be 1 of MANY reasons that humans have color vision, but to attribute this change primarily to this, i would say, is a rather big leap.
P.S. This goes for darker skin tones as well, just the yellowish skin tone mentioned would just be... well, darker. - brandizzle, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Wouldn't it have evolved slowly? As in...those who had color vision were more successful in life, and reproduced more?
Wouldn't this mean it was needed for several reasons?
I sure think it does. There are a billion reasons why color vision is useful. - MrUnderbridge, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Wow, I'm a Caltech fan and all being an alum but....how about some evidence? The article sure as hell doesn't give any. Not quite sure how you go about proving this.
- evensong, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Damn, guess I'm not human. I can't read emotion at all!
No, I'm not color blind. But someone needs to change this green background on Digg immediately! - ThePhilomath, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3I know anthropology professors that would probably get in a fist fight over an article like this. So yeah, it's hardly proven and likely not true at all.
- punkguitarist, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4Sounds more like a theory. in accurate title, there is no proof or even strong evidence for this, it is just some speculation against why our eyes did not evolve to see food.
- SenyorDrew, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4how is this not speculative?
- jguerry, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2remember kids, you can observe a lot just by watching.
- ramsinks.com, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2lame
"They say" , "They say" -
Sheep follow.
"They" are just some dude guessing. - j0keR, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2"The spectral sensitivity of color cones in humans and chips"
Mmmm.... Chips. - stokestack, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2The headline is misleading, so why didn't anyone harp on that? The primary explanation is the use of skin color in detecting good health and readiness to mate. Period.
- wnathans, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3Studies show that color vision evolved precisely so we could complain about the resolution on our HDTVs
- ferrix, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2I love how everyone in comments says this is BS, yet it's on the front page fast approaching +200.
- saska, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3Also, we evolved thumbs in order to be able to use Nintendo controllers.
Harrumph. - megamahi, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Ya, i didnt notice the whole chips chimps thing till they said 'chips were covered in hair'...
- andrewleung, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2"When a primate is ready to mate, oxygen levels rise again leading to blushing."
yeah, or from my experience: they're REALLY drunk and good to go! - dr-steve, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Just a couple of comments...
1. On the timing of the evolution of color vision. There were a few comments on color vision having evolved long before primates. However, (a) it refers to the sensitivity of the primate retina to particular hues, not to CV in general, (2) note that in non-primates animals, long wavelength sensitivity is frequently greater than short-wavelength sensitivity.
2. Curiously, one of my references suggests strongly that (currently) our CV is most sensitive from around 540nm to 600 nm (yellowish to red), peaking at around 560nm (yellow-green, as in the yellow-green tennis balls).
3. On black/dark skin and hue detection: I performed some research in the late 80s on feature detection in (color) photographs of humans. (Uh, location of eyes, noses, etc.) I was focusing on detecting of key features in different color planes (hue, saturation, sensitivity). A key result of my research was that humans have a fairly constant skin hue (same "pinkness") from nordics through mid-European caucasians, Native Americans, Indians (Indian subcontinent), Orientals, and Africans. (I refer to the descent of the particular students.) The most significant was the range and delta in intensity. (Side note: the Saturation plane was great for locating the eyes...)
4. In research I was performing earlier (around 1985 or so), I found some early papers of David MacAdam, who performed color sensitivity research for Kodak (?memory distant, may be wrong here) in the 40s. His work focused on varying sensitivity and minimal change for detection in the color XY plane. It was distinctly nonlinear; if you can find some of these papers, they are well worth reading!
Steve - jdubya, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4I thought it was because black n' white is boring
- squeevey, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3I believe it, and as for reading women's emotions...well maybe some of you haven't evolved ;)
I believe the theory for the very reason that I am a people reader. I'm extremely intuitive by nature. I also notice thing right away, when things are out of place, when people get their haircuts, subtle changes.
Now one could argue that indeed if this is true, then is it not true for all of our senses? I need my hearing so I can tell tonal differences in peoples voices.
Now, I could very well adjust this theory and say "Well we developed complex eyesight to have basic instincts to compete with other complex beings" For example, how do you know a dog is angry? Because it is showing its teeth in a snarl. Also, discussion of the origins of our complex would then lead to the origins of emotion, and the idea of what are really emotions? Are they just a series of complex pathways in the brain that spawn chemical reactions. Due to the brains ability to shift and react to internal and external stimuli, certain chemicals are released that cause a chain reaction. Ultimately this is a procedural process that isn't what poets and writers describe as emotion. - Tomunist, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2This seems to be a conclusion reached through inference rather than experimentation. "Humans and chimps eat lots of different things and have hair where they DON'T blush, so they must use color vison to see blushing and not food!" Yeah, sure--very scientific approach.
- UnivrslMnstr, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1"When we descend to details, we can prove that no single species has changed; nor can we prove that the supposed changes are beneficial, which is the groundwork of the theory."
Charles Darwin - "Life and Letters" Vol. 1 p.68 - asmodeos, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1So you are implying that humans in general share a pink hue? Are you leading towards the idea that color vision is used exclusively in detecting other humans? I'd imagine that pattern recognition could accomplish the same task, with a lower cost.
- superalamar, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2since when does c-net mis spel chimps as chips and no one notice.
- potifer, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2Why?
- ichthus, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Why don't I have infrared vision, like birds of prey? Wouldn't this serve the same purpose, but more effectively? And, it would allow me to see black people blush as someone commented on above.
Idiotic conjecture, if you ask me. - MadFlyer, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I smell *****...
Evolutionnary traits come from the advantage they provide by improving survivability of affected subject.
Birds have improved eyesight in order to hunt small prey or from far. -> good eyes -> you eat -> you survive
Human have slightly awfull eyesight but see some colors, is it a major characteristic that improved survivability or some deficient one that was overcome by better aptitude in other fields ?
(wide example, we got bad eyes, but big brains, so we made glasses with our brains, and radars to fly planes... but you can't link our bad eyes with our ability to make and fly planes...)
Those people have a what : color perception
but for the why, it seems to come out of their asses... - potifer, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Wow, those comments (on cnet) are just... absurd...
- Crowforge, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2Bullhockey, I'm dense as a brick.
- rysolag, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1the animals with better vision survive and reproduce becuase they can more easily avoid dangers and harness the positives of good vision(easier to find prey, etc). over millions of years vision will then become better as this process continues.
- iupetre, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1This is not science. This is just speculation.
- bluekangaroo, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I'ts from CalTech so it HAS to be true. Yeah right.
If its true, why do i have such a hard time finding a "ready to mate" female at the bar? - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3Lame - please think about how the visual SYSTEM "evolved" - all components need to be in place for a functional system (open your computer and take out your hard drive and see if it will boot XP or OSX without a drive connected somewhere, not to mention an OS). Our eye system is made up of 5 different interdependent systems that all must be in place to work at all. Sure, some amobea with a mole decide it wanted to "see" and made it's mole an "eye". Common, think it through for a few minutes...
- SpacemanSpiff, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Interesting theory, but it lacks strong support or logical conclusions.
If they had followed up with evidence that a study of people with autism (inability to read human emotions) had weaker cones and rods, then they'd be onto something. - dr-steve, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Pink towards yellow. But I'm not implying that color vision is used exclusively in detecting other humans; in fact, I have trouble with the basic conclusion of the source article.
I think I still have my images in a box in a closet somewhere. If I can find them. And a system that can read in TGA files that were rolled out to 5 1/4" floppies using SCO XENIX tar...
-s - mickwalks, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1And when did Talons start to disappear?
- cathode, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3Yeahmmm, we evolved just like a computer evolves all by itself.
- trunkster, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1Yes, normal human intelligence which involves theories that change every day because we really don't know *****. 200 years from now, all the theories will yet again be different on our origins.
- Alex3917, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2I've read books that say this that were published in the 70's. How is this news?
- Osjpr, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0I dont believe it. Our eyes detect the broadest range of hues in the green spectrum.
- nubious, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1I think people are ignorant for thinking that black people don't blush... It makes sense....
- szelij, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1I agree. Whilst i have to look at the findings and information, i don't think colour vision was evolved in hominids..
- stokestack, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2No, that's how many it'll take for YOU to reach normal human intelligence. By the time you catch up, the rest of us will be pure energy.
- timbudtwo, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1Then why do lesser animals have color vision. contrary to popular knowledge, dogs do in fact see in color, they jsut arent trained to differentiate, but are able to after training because they do in fact have cones and rods, just like humans. Why did other animals evolve the ability to see in color if not to see emotion? Its pretty lucky that sooo many other animals see in color just like humans do. I guess its to see which animals are toxic, via their warning colors like on frogs and such. But didnt humans evolve too and have to eat animals from the wild as well? Wait... this whole evolution thing seems sorta dodgy to me....
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