What is Digg?151 Comments
- deltaz, on 09/06/2008, -6/+48I was gonna say:
In before the fundies!!!
But I guess I'm a bit late... - baltar2008, on 09/06/2008, -13/+51Jesus flew down and wished them to us before miracling his ass back up to heaven. Totally plausible.
- wierdaaron, on 09/06/2008, -1/+34I love how any discussion of the development of man is instantly trumped by jesus, but not much else in the biological sciences department gets the same treatment.
In an article about what causes cancer or hiv, I don't see many people jumping in to take credit on god's behalf.
"How cancer cells are formed"
God did it!!!! - apena89, on 09/06/2008, -5/+34prove it.
- ZenMojo, on 09/06/2008, -0/+28Success has 100 parents, failure is an orphan.
- cygnus2112, on 09/06/2008, -4/+24Wrong. The original intelligent design was tentacles. But Michael was pissed when there wasn't a good resting point for his sword hilt. So we went with the boring design - opposable thumbs.
- xtmno3, on 09/06/2008, -3/+21The burden of proof is on those making the assertion. If you don't believe me, prove the invisible pink unicorn did not give them to us.
- tdawson2012, on 09/06/2008, -3/+20We deal in natural laws, magic is your department.
- vladin, on 09/06/2008, -1/+18There is a fire-breathing dragon in my garage.
- apena89, on 09/06/2008, -1/+17sounds intelligent.
- ism70605, on 09/06/2008, -7/+23Can't prove a negative.
- Farik, on 09/06/2008, -5/+19Was /sarcasm forgotten or are you actually out of your mind?
- frozenpxl, on 09/06/2008, -6/+18Why isn't it HER thumbs? Well? Sexist. Racist. Fake. I got my thumbs from my hands.
- xGeneric, on 09/06/2008, -2/+13"I mean if you just actually stop to think about it evolution takes more faith to believe than the bible and even if you dont want to do that think about the end result."
No. It takes a lot more faith to believe in a book written thousands of years ago, translated who knows how many times during the centuries, and most likely changed by various church officials to match their desired form of the religion. A book written people who had no idea what things like DNA even is. Some call it faith, some call it stupidity, to each his own.
"if you dont believe in God you live how you want, ie get along the best you can doing what you think is right and die whenever and that's it. if you do believe in God and His son Jesus Christ and become saved through His grace, then you live how you want, ie get along doing the best you can doing what you think is right and die whenever and then what. ETERNAL LIFE IN PARADISE, that's what."
Ah, threats... Christianity's tried and true tactic. "You must believe in the being of absolute love, or else he will send your soul to torture and burn in the pits of hell until the end of time". Thanks for reminding me why I don't follow organized religions. - a1cd, on 09/06/2008, -5/+16Evolution
- SubjectiveC, on 09/06/2008, -3/+14Monolith did it.
- psylence, on 09/06/2008, -2/+13Your argument is fundamentally flawed, and old I might add: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pascal%27s_gambit
Regardless, how does it take more faith to trust science? We acknowledge what we don't know, and accept that. That's not faith, faith is not needed. You know, or you don't, and hope to learn as you go. Pretty simple. - klco, on 09/06/2008, -3/+13if by 'magic' you mean by a process of competition and elimination the traits most suitable for survival evolved then yes.
- Dainjah, on 09/06/2008, -2/+12Oh right..the all-powerful, benevolent sky genie will send me to a pit of fire for eternity if I don't stroke his ego every Sunday...
Maybe YOU should think about what is at stake...are you really going to risk missing out on the beer volcano and stripper factory? Accept the FSM as the true creator! - Dennisisok, on 09/06/2008, -1/+11Does your fire breathing dragon also happen to be invisible?
Talk about coincidence, I have an invisible dragon too. What are the odds? - forevernomad, on 09/06/2008, -4/+13God did not create the National Dyslexic Association! Fool!
- baltar2008, on 09/06/2008, -2/+10Lemme guess: that is what your pastor told you?
You speak as if you aren't versed in any of these arguments at all. For all of humanity, please go educate yourself. - Enigmocracy, on 09/06/2008, -1/+9You know, you don't have to be an athiest to know that Intelligent design is a bunch of garbage and that Hell is designed to scare people.
Assume for a minute that God exists. Why would he send people to Hell? Just for giggles? Because they don't pray to him every day? Hell would assume that God has human emotions, which is just preposterous. - cygnus2112, on 09/06/2008, -2/+9They have some downtime since there's no crisis or research needed when it comes to energy.
- tr909, on 09/06/2008, -0/+7True. Fundies have no problem with the science that creates their computers, heals the sick, sends men to the moon, makes cars and cell phones we use, but damn if the same scientific method gets near their stories....Then it's like a bees nest of angry people trying to sound logical with their convoluted ideas they come up with amongst themselves that don't make an ounce of sense. My favorite being "If we come from monkeys, then why do monkeys still exist?".
- TedTschopp, on 09/06/2008, -3/+10Well, to be technically correct, according to the bible, God didn't give man his thumbs. He made man whole, and then later didn't decide to give, or throw in the thumbs.
Which also leads to the next point which is that this is true for even a literal interpretation of the first couple of chapters of the Book of Genesis. Lets look at a couple verses:
Gen 2:8 then the Lord God formed the man of dust from the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living creature.
and
Gen 2:21 So the Lord God caused a deep sleep to fall upon the man, and while he slept took one of his ribs and closed up its place with flesh.
Both verses state that God didn't create man out of nothing, he was created out of things that were already around. Which strangely enough is exactly what evolutionist are saying.
I could insert some pithy statement here about how Science looks for answers in one domain while the Bible looks in another domain. I think this is an artifical divorcing of a unified Truth about reality. However the point I do want to make is that a literal interpertation of the bible has historically been considered a bad idea. Applying literal interpretative skills to the first couple of chapters of Genesis easily tell us that isn't a science text book. Even for a people group that is 4,000 - 6,000 years old. Its a narrative, a story, something that has both truth and beauty mixed in. If you talked to a scientist about a given phenomena an honest one would be able to technically describe many mechanical facts about the event, but in the end the scientist purpose is not there to describe the beauty and the mystery and the sublime aspects of the event.
The purpose of these chapters in Genesis isn't to tell us where our "thumbs" come from. Its there to tell us that Man is a part of this world. This place is home. And that strange female standing next to the male is there cause us males are pretty helpless regarding a lot of things, and that that female is a part of us. We are equals in value and worth, but different in skills and abilities.
And in the telling of this truth the bible doesn't do injustice to the truths about the mechanical bits of how we came about.
- bobbi21, on 09/06/2008, -0/+7I think the main problem as stated in the wiki article is what if you're worshiping the wrong god? every day you're just making god madder and madder. Believing in Jesus doesn't guarantee eternal life in paradise; It's just a possibility. It's also a possibility that there's a God out there who punishes belief in any God since he left no verifiable evidence out there for him and will reward with eternal life those who live life logically, demanding evidence for everything. A god who created a logical world like this one would probably be happy that we display that level of logic in our own lives.
So until you can provide evidence that your version of God is more probable than this one, or Allah, or no god then your argument does not hold up. Go look it up, you can probably find something at least more reasonable than the argument you presented above. - dhVyse, on 09/06/2008, -3/+10Unlike creationism, evolution is basically fact in the scientific community. Not to say that there isn't a God, and that Evolution is just part of his creation. It's just obvious all the religious books on Earth were written by MAN. That's why they are mostly wrong.
- DeusGear, on 09/06/2008, -1/+7I have no beef with the possibility of gods existence. Hell I wish it's true. It's just that religion takes this being that's more complex then all of our brains combined could hope to understand half a percent and use it to control the masses in stupidity and extract money. Hate religion, not god.
- Magnut, on 09/06/2008, -0/+6Best troll ever.
- drowningfish, on 09/06/2008, -1/+7I'm confused. I thought all primates shared opposable thumbs with homosapiens?
Or is this article theorizing on the strength of development of the thumbs and the other referenced components between a homosapien and a primate? Meaning for example, the overall effectiveness of a human thumb when compared with that of a lessor primate? - kh99, on 09/06/2008, -4/+9The problem is that those scientists think too much. If you start out knowing the answer (hint: it's "God") and limit your thinking to small logic fragments that seem to support your conclusion, you can make yourself believe that you are right (and smarter than everyone else) and not have to do any real work.
- inactive, on 09/06/2008, -0/+5See this picture? http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii261/funkbutte ...
See the thumbs? We are created in His image and He has thumbs.
No mystery, all explained. - djgreedo, on 09/07/2008, -0/+5@offrdbandit
You're simply ignoring the vast body of work out there that biologists have done. You're not up to speed on evolutionary theory.
What you state can be easily explained in layman's terms.
Man has recently (within a few thousand years) evolved to understand the world better. We are now fully aware and understand the implications of our actions.
Crime exists because organisms have an inherent desire for 'wealth' (because historically wealth = survival).
As for abortions, again the desire for wealth is a factor. In modern society, having a child is a disadvantage in some cases (financially, career-wise, etc.) The fact that an unwanted pregnancy occurred shows that sex drive is strong and not simply related to a 'desire' for offspring.
It's important to understand that evolution as a process is not intelligent. Our evolutionary 'deisres' are for sex and wealth (e.g. food, shelter, etc.), not for children and crime. Our genes 'want' us to have sex and to live longer. Living longer requires safety and comfort.
Crime in general is simply greed and/or necessity, and both are easily explained by evoutionary theory.
Not 'believing' in evoutionary theory is totally up to you, but to claim that evolutionary theory doesn't explain things it DOES explain EASILY is either dishonest or ignorant.
(p.s. I apologise for all the 'quotes' - it's difficult to discuss evolution in layman's terms without them) - drowningfish, on 09/06/2008, -6/+11DNA created God.
Hmm... I see what I just did there. - fungalboom, on 09/06/2008, -1/+6@offrdbandit:
You're being a silly religious person. People who believe in evolution don't assign 'purpose' to anything it dictates. They take the '***** happens' approach.
So then there would be no more purpose to an individual's existence than there is in hydrogen exploding with oxygen to create water. Also, if you were anywhere near fluent with microbiology, you would understand that DNA replication is just a chemical reaction. Go back to H and O2, and point out that Not all the product is in fact H2O, given all the different indirect things that happen in between, and you'd be more surprised that DNA replication ever works at all. (And then note it's these errors that cause mutation. And if you believe in Down Syndrome or anything like that, you know mutations are real. Just wait for a good one.)
Also, have you taken a look at how animals compete, vs how humans compete? Sure people could easily win out against the rest of the environment, but then where would we be. Thus I say 'rest' as we are part of it too. You look at how society evolves, and you would realise that it is affected by our own human faults. (And how, may I ask would we have those, if we are the spitting image of a righteous God?) Also, it would be folly to try to beat me, even if you did happen to have the ability, because of this society.
Anyway, I still hope your thumbs suit you well. - djgreedo, on 09/07/2008, -1/+6@offrdbandit
Your knowledge of current evolutionary theory is clearly lacking. The fact that you used the term 'Darwinists' displays this quite nicely. It also implies you've been listening to the lies of Creationists. Evolutionary theory has come a long way since Darwin, and continues to improve our understanding of the natural world.
There is plenty of work out there explaining why humans have society and why we (and other animals, it should be added) work together for mutual benefit. A good start would be 'Nice Guys Finish First' by Richard Dawkins. He explains how working together and being 'nice' gives a survival advantage, and provides examples from nature as well as a logical explanation of how it fits into evolutionary theory.
In a nutshell, the more 'selfish' of a group tend to be shunned by the rest of the group (for the group's benefit), and therefore those selfish members are unable to mate as successfully. The 'nice' group members are more 'fair' with their food, etc. and therefore ensure each others' genes are kept in the pool by helping each other for mutual benefit over the 'stronger' or 'fittest' selfish members. There is even evidence that groups of smarter group members have killed off stronger group members (one way that intelligence and reasoning has evolved through social interaction).
This goes against 'common sense', but once you look closer and see the real-world examples it actually makes a lot of sense. Social interaction is important for evolution.
I know that Creationists tend to jump on the 'selfish gene' idea and run with it (typically accepting an idea that they think matches their views while ignoring the actual implications and details), but evolution is more complicated than that. A black and white view of pure 'selfishness' in evolution is nonsense. With organisms interacting in very complicated ways, nature finds a way. - SeraphX, on 09/06/2008, -0/+4copypasta from the comments there:
Although the Science article described above is fascinating, some aspects are misrepresented in the PopSci report. ALL primates have opposable thumbs (and big toes, if they aren't humans). This includes the apes (Chimpanzees, Gorillas, Orangutans, Gibbons), the monkeys (like Baboons and Macaques), and the lemurs and lorises. In fact, having an opposable thumb is one of the attributes that distinguishes primates from other mammals. There are some more subtle aspects of the human hand and its precision grip that separate us from other primates, and the genetic differences reported in this study may contribute to those. BUT, having an opposable thumb is not uniquely human.
~Whoever the hell - TBombadil, on 09/06/2008, -0/+4there is no god. a belief in god is laughably ridiculous. in the same way a belief in the tooth fairy, or Zeus is laughably ridiculous. don't you ever use a bit of critical thinking and ask yourself, "Hey! why do I believe what I believe?" (hint: The bible is not evidence)
- inactive, on 09/06/2008, -2/+6noumuon, for someone who paid such close attention in their logic class, you certainly don't appear to be that well-read. It's from a famous piece by Carl Sagan which basically asserts that there is no difference between the invisible, heatless-fire-breathing, incorporeal, floating dragon in my garage and no dragon at all.
- kh99, on 09/06/2008, -3/+7He's a troll - no one's that stupid. Also, he didn't even read the article.
- mrrealtime, on 09/07/2008, -1/+5Just because you are too stupid to learn science doesnt mean your imaginary god did everything.
- paintgrl, on 09/06/2008, -2/+5Way to go science!! See what happens when you actually read books, which I might add takes thumbs. Readers for evolution unite.
- pedepy, on 09/07/2008, -0/+3am i the only one scared ***** by these God comments ?
- bagboyrebel, on 09/06/2008, -1/+4@noumuon
but you don't understand, the dragon is invisible and it's fire doesn't give off any heat. - nard3456, on 09/06/2008, -0/+3Makes perfect sense.
- mrrealtime, on 09/07/2008, -0/+3again, just because you are too dumb to learn science doesnt mean you have any authority when talking about your imaginary god.
Regularly communicating with an imaginary friend, then actually taking direction from the "voices in one's head" is the hallmark of insanity. - djgreedo, on 09/07/2008, -0/+3Yeah, paintgrl, you should have specified non-fiction books!
- ernieoporto, on 09/06/2008, -1/+4Perhaps guide helped nudge our evolution this way. I can't see why the fundies have such a hard time reconciling this while Catholics have long admitted that evolution is not totally incompatible with our core beliefs.
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