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93 Comments
- Tiabin, on 10/12/2007, -4/+28@koregaon: Thanks for making us all feel bad about our ineptness, you cocky bastard. :-)
- retral, on 10/12/2007, -1/+21I wish I could speak multiple languages to begin with
- LR2_, on 10/12/2007, -5/+16Could you enlighten us then?
- koregaonpark, on 10/12/2007, -14/+25It's fun, I'm tri-lingual. English, German and Hindi. I can also understand Punjabi and Dutch. I was watching the world cup interview with the x-Geman coach on BBC World and the reporter was speaking in English and the coach was replying in German. I was astonished, that I could actually understand that conversation. There were English sub-titles, but I was purposely ignoring them. It's like jumping between brains every 10 seconds.
- adolfojp, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7I switch between Spanish and English constantly. The only way to do that is to learn to "think" in the language that you are going to use. The biggest mistake that you can make when learning another language is to try to translate as you go.
This also applies to regional variations of a language. I had to watch Trainspotting and Layer Cake with captions to understand what they were saying. I had to watch "Y tu Mam Tambin" with english subtitles and my first language is Spanish. - zcreem, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7Small cars from VW
- MirrorSpock, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7I only speak three languages Dutch, English and German (a bit low for where I live, most ppl also speak French).
I do notice that I also think in Dutch and Increasingly often in English, but hardly ever in German, odd considering I was born German, and only turned Dutch when I was 16. - Tiabin, on 10/12/2007, -2/+8Matthew, notice the fact that I specifically used the phrasing "our ineptness"... And actually, technically, starting conditions do play a role. Not everyone is given an opportunity to learn a second language well legitimately (the highschool stuff does NOT count as actually *learning* a language). Had I been given the money, and the motivation from my parents when I was young I would've learned... It's a lot easier said than done once you're already in the middle class rat-race.
I'm not saying it's impossible though. If I was to become extremely dedicated I could still learn it (though not as well), but the fact is it isn't as much of a priority in our culture as it should be. A good example is from On The Education of Children by the French philosopher Montaigne... he talks about the first many years of his life were spent almost exclusively speaking latin among his family. His family learned latin so that he could absorb it from a young age, and his parents also paid a well-known doctor at the time to carry him around with him and speak latin to him constantly. This is clearly something that isn't very standard -- even among the upper class -- in America.
However, Koregaon, I applaud you (and perhaps your parents?) for having taken the opportunity to learn not just an extra language, but more than one. - Tiabin, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6Yeah, actually by the description of how the caudate was functioning I would almost think that it helped function as a categorizer of language. Words are words... even if they are said in a slightly different way. I don't see why a brain function would be dedicated for switching between different "languages" since only we PERCEIVE languages as being different in the first place. (Language is tone, pitch, and duration for communication... that is all) . Instead, I'd be willing to bet it serves more as a categorizing of words that mean the same thing as appropriate.
I'd bet the caudate is probably used when deciding between two synonyms in the same language as well. Or perhaps deciding formal versus slang based on the situation, etc. - romper, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6There was a deaf student in my French class in high school (studying the written version only). When the interpreter was absent she had a sub, but the sub didn't understand the French. I was semi-fluent in ASL, so I'd help out. I had to listen to French, think in English then work out the sign language. It gave me a headache (though I can't say what region)... and a better appreciation of her regular interpreter. =)
- capn_caveman, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6http://digg.com/science/In_What_Language_do_Deaf_People_Think_
- PianoRambling, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5it would be interesting to see the difference with people who SPOKE a language and used ASL (or any other sign language for that matter) or compare people who know FSL(french sign language) and ASL(American sign language)
- Skuba, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6Our brains are so capable at language, it's unbelievable some people refuse to learn another language in the USA. There's no excuse really.
- joebrent, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5I am hearing, but speak American Sign Language as well as a little bit of British British and French Sign Language. Many of the basic shapes are similar from language to language, especially between American and French (ASL is based on FSL and was mostly developed by a Frenchman named Laurent Clerc), but the modifiers are very different, as well as the slang expressions. I also speak German and a bit of French, and can attest that the process of switching from one spoken language to another is not very different than switching from one signed language to another, meager BSL and FSL that I am familiar with...
You have to be careful when switching signed languages as you would spoken ones; the British spoken slang for a cigarette, as most people know, can also mean either 'a bundle of sticks' or a highly offensive term in American slang. Likewise, the extended middle finger many western cultures are familiar with means 'brother' in Japanese Sign Language, so the next time a deaf Japanese person makes such a gesture, he very well might be trying to say, "Hey, bro," and not what you might think at first. - Burns, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5Heres another somewhat related thing to think about. What language do deaf people think in?
- DCstewieG, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5http://digg.com/science/In_What_Language_do_Deaf_People_Think_
Edit: haha - Negyxo, on 10/12/2007, -3/+8Listen, le problem is that i jamais confuse the deux languages i know. I've spent 10 years en France, and ca ma rien fait. Je n'ai pas besoin to think about it.
- ThomasCJohnson, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5sont les mots qui vont tres bien ensemble tres bien ensemble
- Kamino, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5Very interesting. I'm from the Netherlands too and it's weird really, when I have been on the internet for a while I even start to think in English. (Offtopic stuff too)
I think because of our excessive confrontation with the English language (TV, TV and.. erh internet) some of us could be considered bilingual too. - PianoRambling, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5@otherland:
dude, I didn't mean to push "the gay agenda". I was just saying that i have noticed first had someone "thinking in sign" which was in response to someone elses question. and then cited an example.
which WAS relevant to the topic at hand.
you should think about picking your battles. your arguments aren't very convincing. and did you notice you're the only one arguing your point? it is 2006, you know. the times, they are a-changing........ - wobblygeek, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5@otherland
Dude, there was no indication of PianoRambling's gender in (apparently) his comment. The only way you'd know if he(?) was a guy was to go out of your way to find out, just so you'd have something to be offended by.
Ugh. Do people just WANT to be offended nowadays? - CatfishJones, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Like gravity...
- MatthewWilkes, on 10/12/2007, -6/+10It's not his/her fault you're lazy. Ach, was soll'n wir mit die Ausländerfeindlichen dieser Welt tun?
- MatthewWilkes, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Ah, but using cognates ruins the fun...
- madeingermany, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Same here ;)
I have no idea if I watched that movie I saw last week in English or in German.
But English is my second language.
Since I moved to the States, I do the majority of my talking in English.
We still speak German at home, but my dreams/thoughts are a funny mixture of both.
I guess my left caudate is strained ;) - PianoRambling, on 10/12/2007, -3/+6I dated someone deaf, and when he would have nightmares, he would sign in his sleep. all the time.
or when he was just thinking out a thought, he would "half sigh" to himself when he thought no one was looking. it was interesting to see him "mumble to him self" in sign - LawrenceDudley, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4I speak both English and German, and to be honest I have great difficulty sometimes seeing the difference between them. It gets to the point where I can read something, and if asked whether it's in English or German, have no idea.
I was tought both as mother-tongue though, and I guess that probably makes a difference.
It's fun though, because I don't ever notice any sort of "switching" between languages, and often when talking with my family, who are also bi-lingual, we will use both languages in the same sentence as some things are better expressed in the other language. German, for instance, often has rather roundabout ways of saying things, where english is a lot more to the point. Likewise, there are some words in German that take an entire sentence in English, so we just tend to mix and match the two.
It's fine, because none of us are actually aware of doing so. - willcode4beer, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3The risk with learning to think in a language is sometimes you forget which one you are using. I'm English/Spanish.
So, when I'm having dinner with my wife (es-mex) and my mother (en-us), I find that sometimes I answers questions from one or the other in the wrong language and don't realize it until they ask me to repeat what I said.
There is a bonus with learning to think in the language. I've found that when I don't know the word in Spanish for something that I can just make it up and be right about 80% of the time. The other 20% whoever I'm talking to still figures out what the crazy gringo is trying to say. - ddegner, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3hmmm, *****, digg can't take other language scripts, must be designed by Americans.
- Skuba, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4@otherland
You're right, this story has nothing to do with his "agenda." That's why he provided a story which provided insight to another poster's question. Where did he "push an agenda?"
It looks like you're the one with an agenda here. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4Does this work for Livin' La Vida Loca?
- madeingermany, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3@Matthew:
Akkusativ: mit _den_ Auslnderfeindlichen ;)
But I wouldn't use "Auslnderfeindlich" in this context... to me that means racist.
I'd use "Xenophob", which is the same as in English.
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xenophob
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xenophobia
Marco
PS: My language history: German, English, Latin, Russian
And you could argue that Latin is not really a language, but I forgot everything latin and Russian anyway ;) - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4I am tri-lingual (English, Russian and Italian) and sometimes the switch isn't smooth when I am tired and don't get enough sleep. Like today, I saw an ad in Italian and Russian and I needed to say something to my friend and I started to talk in Russian but I stopped. I didn't really say anything, I just thought it in Russian and realized I was not talking in English.
- romper, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2No more confusing that conversing with most women. (rimshot) =)
- dweeb73, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Whats strange is dreaming in the other language that is not your primary language for daily use. I have that happen to me occasionally, I learned both German and English at the same time as a young un, but I dont use German that often anymore (only when speaking to relatives). I find that as I age I am getting rusty in my German skills, but if I am immersed in it, it comes back.
- mystagogue, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2if you're interested in how the mind creates and interprets language, there is a great book by steven pinker called, "the language instinct". also, by the same author, "how the mind works". very interesting!
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Scottish movies like the "Rat Catcher" and "Sweet 16" came with hardcoded subtitles for English speakers. Calling it a different dialect is a stretch.
- Skuba, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3How weird is it that I didn't even think twice while reading that post?
- kibblesbits, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3did anyone else notice that when crazyfan threw a hissy and "left" the site that otherland started trolling every post?
@otherland, i don't mind that you're hanging out and jerking your conservative knee all over the place, your little hissy fits are actually entertaining, but every "hippy", "liberal", and "women's libber" (lol) are going to live to mod your little dick down if you keep this up.
btw, if you mention your girlfriend (who undoubtedly lives somewhere on the canadian border) in a post, does that mean you are pushing a heterosexual agenda? grow up, dude. - solarpowered, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Using the word "tongue" to mean "language"... how sophisticated, yet oddly quaint.
- grzelakc, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2I speak fluent English but my mother tongue is Polish. The interesting thing that's been happening for the past couple of years is that I've had more and more dreams in English. Prior to that, the characters in my sleep spoke Polish all the time, now it's about 50/50. Weird.
- romper, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2I believe the brain stores ideas without language. Similar to what you said, I'll recall a conversation in a different language, or even from a movie in a language I don't know with English subtitles, and I will recall the entire thing in English. Often I have to think about what language the interaction took place in.
- zcreem, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2speakunderstand, that will be the german side of your brain, they hate spaces.
- madeingermany, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2reminds me of the over-used word cusine.... sounds so much better then kitchen ;)
- MikeCampo, on 10/12/2007, -3/+5@otherland
Don't be such a dick. I found what PianoRambling said to be quite interesting. - tacom8, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3@ overlander
Who's gay, and who's a liberal?? look its already been pointed out the only one making generalizations and pushing an agenda is YOU.
/he who casts the first stone indeed... - antoniojvr, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3This is really cool. I speak English, Spanish, and Italian fluently and people keep wondering how anyone can live at that speed. I'm going to have to forward this article to them.
- wobblygeek, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2Why in the hell are we Americans the only ones arrogant enough to think we shouldn't learn multiple languages? If nothing else, it'd be a mark of intelligence and a sign of a quality education... oh wait, those have been missing from this country for a long time.
My first language is English, I learned German in high school, and now I'm learning Spanish with the help of my latino co-workers in exchange for helping them learn English, just in case anyone is curious. - olivierk, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1My mother is French, my father is Greek. They divorced when I was very young and so I bounced between the 2 countries all my youth. I was in a French school system until we moved to Spain for 3 years and ended up switching to an International English school system (I then went on to college in the US and have lived there for 16 years).
While I was in Spain, I learned English and Spanish at roughly the same time and after 3 months of intensive courses (I was 12), I was doing translations between English to Spanish. I ended up speaking French, English, Spanish and Greek fluently but for some reason, my brain would not switch easily between the last 2.
If I was in Spain and met a Greek person, I could not speak to them because 7 out of 10 words came out Spanish. When I visited Greece, after about 2 days, the complete opposite would occur and so I always thought that my brain had only 3 simultaneous 'language slots'. Note: I could always switch in mid-sentence between 3 languages without ever confusing one for the other (like someone commented earlier, I always spoke the right language with whoever I was interacting with even if it meant switching to another language every 20 seconds).
Now this is the weird thing... When I turned 24-25, I was in my Spanish 'mode' and I went to Greece and suddenly, both languages started co-existing. Every time I spoke Greek on the phone with my family, I would regain more and more of it WITHOUT loosing the Spanish side. I am now 33 and I'm finally able to maintain intense conversations in all 4 language without any problems.
It always puzzled me why suddenly my brain was able to 'store' that fourth language when it couldn't during my first 25 years of life...
(I'm not trying to brag here but just wanted to share this 'weird' experience, maybe someone might have a scientific or psychological reason why this occurred...). - friedcalamari, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2It happens to me sometimes when I hear something I get the idea in my head crisp an clear. Seconds latter I go like "did I heard that in English or Spanish? " lol
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