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225 Comments
- SysErr, on 10/12/2007, -3/+78Very interesting... at the start of the article, I was all "Wow, maybe I should try this"... by the end, I was firmly convinced that I'll continue to live in my quiet little world... well written.
- Capta1nA, on 10/12/2007, -4/+70good read. I was surprised that somebody would so casually start on an antidepressent regimen.
- LowenSoDium, on 10/12/2007, -3/+60As someone who was on Paxil for a little over three years, I can say that it was one of the worst things that I have ever done in my whole life. I didn't feel anything, and I let all of my friendships wiether away. I missed so many opertunities that may never come again.
Anti-depressants are over prescibed today. When they are used, they should be used as a crutch to help you heal. But insteat, they are give out like wheelchairs for people to live their lives in. - NippleNutz, on 10/12/2007, -2/+54But lets not forget for ppl like me and others who have REAL depression issues these SSRIs are a lifesaver. I personally get very little side effects. Everyone is different and i think the author is one of those ppl on the worse end of the spectrum.
- NJank, on 10/12/2007, -6/+57wow.. a doctor actually recommended NOT going on meds? Pharma rep must not have given him his freebies that month...
- NippleNutz, on 10/12/2007, -0/+47Unfortunately life isn't that black and white for alot of us. I take lithium for my bipolar, it is no different then insulin for a diabetic. Some of us need medications to get us balanced or we are useless.
- HaltingPoint, on 10/12/2007, -2/+43Agreed, very good read. But are you really that surprised that he casually took it? I mean, he was pretty casual with his fast developing drinking problem, wouldn't you agree?
- giantrobot, on 10/12/2007, -3/+43Please, let people make their own decisions. When the usage of anti-depressants is stigmatized, people who truly need them may not go on them. That may result in suicides.
Antidepressants saved my life. They're not for everyone, but they are for some people. I'm only sure of one thing: YOU are not qualified to decide for your friends or intimidate them to go on/go off antidepressants. That is between your friends and their doctors. - halavais, on 10/12/2007, -0/+34Perceived inadequacies are one thing. Inability to be in a social setting without shaking and throwing up another. Sometimes, these things get seriously in the way of living life. I am trying to work on it without the drugs (and this article provides a good reason to keep doing so), but "a little shy" is different from "fearing going to work because you don't want to interact with people--even if you actually *like* people."
- nofxjunkee, on 10/12/2007, -0/+34rebrad: Yes, it can be that bad being shy. Imagine moving to a new place, but not knowing anyone because you're too shy to talk to random people. It's happened to me on more than one occasion. Not meeting anyone for a year == bad to be shy.
That being said, I'm not about to go trying to get any Paxil or anything like that. That's just me, I deal with it. And if you go out and want to meet people, waiting till someone talks to you can work, but I don't recommend it. - jdmce2002, on 10/12/2007, -0/+31Consider a couple of things. First, if you are a happy camper on Paxil you are not as likely to be writing about it than if you are slammed by the drug as this author was. Second, the specificity of diagnosis is not narrow enough for doctors to predict which drug a patient will get along with. There is so much biological variation between patients that the we need to start medicines and provide close follow-up. If a patient doesn't feel natural on drug A, we try B. Side effects are not a necessary price tag for wellness and good MDs know this. For a fair overview of SSRIs check out Peter Krammer's old but still relevant book, 'Listening to Prozac'. All the Slate article does is talk about the downside, but believe me, there can be a lot of upside.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+29very interesting...i too have anxiety issues and was considering going back on Paxil--but my doctor wants me to learn to handle stress better with a psychologist first...maybe he read your article first? I was on Paxil CR in the past and I couldn't handle the withdrawal at all, so my doctor at the time swiched me to regular paxil and weened me off it. it did make it a lot better to deal with---only thing i looked forward to was not dealing with the delayed orgasms...
- MrUnderbridge, on 10/12/2007, -3/+32"I'd probably have to shoot myself."
You sound depressed. Maybe you need Paxil. - IHaveIssues, on 10/12/2007, -2/+30Read the whole article - drinking while on Paxil is one of the major themes if not THE major theme.
- rewritable, on 10/12/2007, -2/+26I wish i could flick a switch and be normal, extroverts have no idea what is like to deathly afraid of meeting new people.
- etymxris, on 10/12/2007, -0/+24I've been taking paxil for several years due to generalized anxiety and, more importantly, panic attacks. I don't doubt that many drugs are overprescribed. But these drugs do genuinely help many. When I started taking paxil, it was like waking up from a lifelong nightmare of paranoia, delusions, and crippling anxiety. While there are certainly side effects, I doubt I'll be able to function without drugs for the foreseeable future.
Also, don't drink while taking paxil or any other SSRI. Paxil stresses the liver enough on its own, no need to aggravate things. The article would be more interesting written by someone who doesn't drink. - yukevster, on 10/12/2007, -3/+27I took Paxil for a year or so - I had similar experiences to the writer, especially with alcohol but similar wild reactions without. However, it seems to not only dampen down your anxiety, fear and shyness but also your personality and creativity. You never really feel yourself, you feel like someone else, and that's quite scary. It also made me aggressive, I could be a real ***** to my girlfriend and friends whereas I never did before. Some REALLY weird things can happen too; I would sometimes get into a weird thought loop only a few seconds long for about 30 seconds or so in duration...scary. Also you're eyes tend to look like you're E-ing all day i.e fully dilated eyes.
The other thing is, like any drug, the effects begin to get weaker over time. That's why I stopped eventually, as well as the fact I missed myself (if that makes sense) and realized I can't take the powerful drug for ever - it does havoc to your liver over long periods and god-knows-what to your brain!
But! Here's what happened a little while later - I went back to my mindfulness practice (daily mediation and practice mindfulness during the day - that is, noticing your negative, self-beating thoughts but not reacting to them, hard work but eventually very fruitful) as there was a lot of evidence on the net that this is more effective and longer lasting than cognitive therapy (the standard therapy for SA and depression etc. for the past 20 years or so).
I've been doing that diligently for the past year and my life has turned around. I am no longer shy, and can introduce myself to practically anyone (except in certain large peer groups). I've even started teaching in a high school, something I could never even contemplate before, and have dated about fifteen women in the past five months.
Forget the drugs they can never be permanent, so you might as well knuckle under and start taking responsibility for your own life. - michelson, on 10/12/2007, -3/+24yeah. what would Tom Cruise say? you know, he's done the research on antidepressants.
- IHaveIssues, on 10/12/2007, -3/+24I've forwarded it to people I know who have thought about going that route. Thanks.
- Rinnt, on 10/12/2007, -2/+23"I did notice one thing: After a few drinks, I began to discourse freely on my Paxil experience.....Drinking a lot, several nights a week. Liquor Paxil = Wow!"
I only skimmed the article, but keep in mind that drinking a lot while on this medication is probably NOT a good idea! Generally, this warning should be printed on the bottle. - datigz, on 10/12/2007, -1/+21I've been on Paxil for 6 months and it is a God-send. I still have a personality... in fact Paxil gave me my personality back. I went from hardly able to get out of bed and crying for no reason while commuting on the train, to someone who likes to go out with people again, joke around at work and have a generally upbeat outlook. I have a full range of emotions from sadness to anger to contentedness to sheer joy.
If you have depression, talk to your doctor about different meds and which one is right for you (last time I had a depression episode I was on meds that made me manic). The meds are much better than living your life not wanting to do anything because you don't have the energy or will to do so. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -3/+23I still deal with clinical depression, but after being on Paxil for a year (in the past), I've decided that figuring out how to deal with my depression without the need for prescription drugs is the way to go.
Imagine being a complete, emotionless zombie for a whole year. No highs. No lows. No sadness, yes; but no joy either. Being a creative person (musician and graphic designer), there has to be some kind of emotional output in order to create. I spent a whole year creating nothing. I couldn't even do my normal job as a graphic designer because there was no inspiration there. Nothing.
After that experience, I'll stick to St. John's Wort and being aware of my moods. It's done me pretty well for the last 10 years. - GreenLantern33, on 10/12/2007, -4/+24Very interesting article. I think this just backs up what I already believe "don't use prescription drugs to compensate for your self-diagnosed inadequacies". We are who we are.
- jj555298, on 10/12/2007, -4/+24My doctor has tried to put me on anti-anxiety and anti depressant drugs I declined in fear of losing my personality or emotion. I feel uneasy about something that "just works!". This article only solidifies what I suspected.
- crazyleg, on 10/12/2007, -7/+26That's an awesome article.
Thanks for writing it. - dwiest, on 10/12/2007, -2/+21Wow, really makes you wonder why this stuff's legal and other things are not. If he had been taking an illegal drug, I'm sure people would call it drug abuse since you're taking drugs to cope with life. Somehow if you have a prescription it's okay.
I can relate to the nervousness about public speaking and shyness around others; I used to be the same way. The solution is to simply force yourself to do the things that make you uncomfortable. I'm a software developer and a large part of my job used to be holding requirements meetings with a half-dozen or so people. I used to dread those meetings, I'd start perspiring, have a hard time talking/shaky voice, etc. Eventually you just get over it. These days, I could give a presentation in front of 100 people and it wouldn't faze me. - MikeCampo, on 10/12/2007, -1/+17But you have to remember LowenSoDium that some people born with a chemical imbalance that causes depression, have a much harder time trying to live life without medication. It's true that therapy helps, but sometimes a couple anti-depressants are better than nothing ;)
- threemagic, on 10/12/2007, -6/+20Drinking a depressant and taking an anti-depressant is absolutely a bad idea. You generally come out of that battle the loser.
- ProfessorRiffs, on 10/12/2007, -5/+18Nobody ever thinks about the possibility that we weren't all meant to have the same personality. Some of us are introverted, some are the opposite, some are in between. It's how it is, and I don't see anything wrong with it. If everybody acted exactly the same I'd probably have to shoot myself.
If variety is the spice of life, this kind of thing is the MSG of life. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+13@ nipplenutz
you are dead on. I have a step nephew that is bipolar, and the kid is freakin crazy if he isn't on his meds. I would much rather him be on drugs than not, he could kill someone I think when he has a bad episode. In fact, my brother has told me that the kid is going to kill him one day. - scottauth, on 10/12/2007, -2/+15There are times when I wish I wasn't so shy, but for the most part I don't care.
I don't see myself as shy, I portray myself as a good listener. - fozzie, on 10/12/2007, -1/+14Wow I can TOTALLY relate to this article. I was on a different medication however, Zoloft. It sounds the same though, the lack of motivation, no feelings etc. I remember going to see King Kong and I was like what the hell are these sniveling fools doing? I saw the movie recently without being on Zoloft and I cried like a baby. I also didn't care about anyone or anything for all I cared I could be fired, wife could leave me and I would be just as content. I hated it to say the least. No more drugs for me. (I will say however the one benefit was being able to drink like a fish with friends and always be somewhat 'sober'! It was nice to not be the babbling fool for once.)
- rebrad, on 10/12/2007, -5/+18Drugs like this do have a high cost that isn't apparent at the beginning. Unless you've been through it yourself it's hard to believe what the real effects are. Best to stay away or find a natural alternative. And really, is it that bad being shy?
- Technopundit, on 10/12/2007, -8/+20The problem wasn't Paxil. The problem is that this guy just wants to pop a pill in order to change his life.
First, work with counselors and a psychiatrist is strongly advisable. Secondly, mixing alcohol with antidepressants is a formula for disaster.
Also, no one antidepressant works for everyone. Often, a period of trial and error, sometimes taking over a year, in close conjunction with a mental health practicioner is pretty-much mandatory in order to find the proper medication for any one person. Treating such a potentially serious problem so casually, then spouting off about it in the press is pretty dangerous.
Not only not dugg, but labeled "completely uncool".
This guy just wants to do drugs. - LowenSoDium, on 10/12/2007, -6/+17I did have REAL depression issues. Some times I still do. But I am much better today that I was then.
I am saying that living your life drugged up is no way to live. If you have a real problem with dpression, then you need to seek professional help in the form of theropy. If you need to have something perscibed to help you work though the problems, then a psycologist will perscrib them for you. But treating the symtoms of depression with out working out the root of the problem is all that taking SSRIs and other anti-depressants do. - ConceptJunkie, on 10/12/2007, -0/+11I've been on Zoloft and Effexor for years and it hasn't had that effect on me. I feel completely myself, with all the passion, excitement and other positive vibes that I've always had. On the other hand, I don't have panic attacks, I'm much less irritible, I don't freak out over work or other stresses, and it was my wife that noticed these improvements before I did.
Sounds like it wasn't for you, but it's helped me a lot. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+11I was on Zoloft for a time. Like the article writer, it made me a little more gabby, even a bit annoying and TOO open, but it ruined my concentration and separated me from my own personal feelings. After getting off of it, I still feel that I'm separated from my emotions, as if it's effects were permanent. For example, I always would grow tears in the movie "Field of Dreams", when the kid walks off the field, turns into an old man, and can't go back. Not anymore. My girlfriend dumped me while I was in Iraq. I always cry when a girl I thought was the one dumps me, but this time I didn't. My whole family was in the hospital, visiting my baby nephew with cancer, and crying. They thought I was an *****, I just couldn't cry. I cried for my grampap when he was in the hospital with cancer years ago. It's changed me. I still know right from wrong, and recognized that my baby nephew with cancer is a horrible thing, but I can't show it anymore.
Don't ***** with your brain folks. Enjoy your deep thoughts and emotions, there's no point in living without them. This was a good article, he put it into words that I wasn't able to come up with. - kublerross, on 10/12/2007, -0/+10This guy should never have been prescribed the drug. As a medical student, we are taught that symptoms of psychiatric illness do not warrant a frank diagnosis unless disruption of the patients ability to function at work, school, socially, etc are affected. The author clearly states 'I'm shy, but not debilitatingly so'
Despite what the lovely marketing campaigns seen to insinuate, these are not 'life style drugs' they are drugs for patients with clinical diagnosis made by qualified physicians.
The fact the physician even says 'you just want the drugs' and still prescribes it makes me seriously question his integrity and/or ability.
I think the drug industry should be banned from all direct-to-public marketing, including these 'self-diagnosis' quizzed and limited to presenting only relevant information concerning side effects, etc online. These practices cause scenes like the one described in the article almost daily as people read the propaganda online and go see their doctors, basically demanding a drug and diagnosis.
Just because I read articles on physics online, I don't go to well trained PhDs pretending I know what I'm talking about in regards to quantum physics... people need to wake up - lordsandwich, on 10/12/2007, -0/+10"Antidepressants saved my life. They're not for everyone, but they are for some people."
Seconded. I started on Lexapro and Lamictal six months ago and I feel more like the person I was supposed to be, rather than a wallflower with serious mood-swing issues. In the end, people with serious emotional problems have to explore all possible options if they truly want to get better.
And to those who criticize anti-depressants as having a suicide risk, I'd argue that NOT treating clinical depression is far more dangerous. - collectivescott, on 10/12/2007, -0/+9You would be correct if we still lived in Roman times. However, English is not a static language:
"Decimate originally referred to the killing of every tenth person, a punishment used in the Roman army for mutinous legions. Today this meaning is commonly extended to include the killing of any large proportion of a group. Sixty-six percent of the Usage Panel accepts this extension in the sentence The Jewish population of Germany was decimated by the war, even though it is common knowledge that the number of Jews killed was much greater than a tenth of the original population..."
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/dict.asp?Word=decimation - DrRobert, on 10/12/2007, -0/+9This seems like an odd set of reactions to an SSRI. Usually these compounds take 2-3 weeks to have any effect or side effect at all, except maybe a little stomach irritation. I would have expected him to have 2-3 weeks of no effect and then mild changes, the reaction to alcohol seems normal; you shouldn't mix the two. He probably read a lot of Paxil sites and had a really strong placebo effect. He also possibly never needed the drug in the first place. Sometime normal people have vastly different reactions to drugs that are intended for people with a certain disease. Severely depressed people are so hammered by the inability to get motivated to do anything, the inability to concentrate and communicate that the drug helps them, the same chemical reaction may confuse a normal person. That is why you should see a psychiatrist and have some therapy before deciding on a medication. It always troubles me when GPs prescribe this type of compound after talking with a person for a few minutes. It also takes some time for the body to clear these type of drugs (sometime 6 weeks for the metabolites) so I wouldn't have thought his withdrawal would have been so pronounced. But, every individual is different.
- mhanley, on 10/12/2007, -4/+13Perhaps it is time to get a new doctor.
- Bhima, on 10/12/2007, -0/+9I found that Paxil *really* worked for me... My one and only side effect wasn't delayed orgasm, it was the complete decimation of my libido. While I found the irony of this situation to be very amusing I didn't find the overall all result to be useful or sustainable; so I quit after a few months (again no big deal)...
- Joey67, on 10/12/2007, -2/+10For everyone saying "this guy just wants to take drugs"... you really need to walk a mile in someones shoes before you say something like that. I started taking Paxil for exactly the same reasons and went through exactly the same thing. I could have written the article myself. Fortunately, my withdrawal symptoms weren't as bad... although, I did schedule a two week leave from work in anticipation of that. It's easy to say "some people are introverted and some people are outgoing". But when you're introverted to the point where it effects your social and work life, you really want to do anything to change that. It's not that you don't want to be friendly or outgoing... it's that you can't. And most of us have gone years that way and have tried many avenues to get over it. I think the issue I had was my psychiatrist prescribed it so readily. Asked a few questions... made a diagnosis "Generalized Anxiety Disorder"... prescribed the pills. I did some reading up on the stuff back then but as is often said... very often the people that complain are the ones making the most noise and people that are satisfied often won't say anything. I think my Dr. should have taken more time to evaluate me as well as perhaps try to talk me out of it. I'm sure Paxil is great for people that need it... but to push it as something that can help you be more friendly is just wrong. The worst part about brain chemical altering substance is that it does just that... it alters your brain chemistry. As a result, the only part of you that would recognize something is wrong is what is being changed. The whole event was very trying on my career and personal life before I dumped them down the toilet. Again... I know Paxil can and does help people with a number of disorders... my point is that doctors should take more responsibility in prescribing it. I'm not the one that's supposed to know what medications or treatment (if any) is best suited to my situation... we rely on the people that we go to for treatment for that.
- newanalog, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8The doctors tried me on Paxil for a heart/neuro problem I have that gives me panic attacks. I didn't make it past the first pill. I'm prone to the side-effects of most drugs and Paxil was no exception. I sat on the couch for 3 days, not eating, just staring at the TV that just happened to be off.
I remember when the Paxil started leaving my system. It was like a light switch went on and I thought..."I gotta get up". I got up and made myself start cleaning the house. By that night I was back to my old self.
Now I take Zoloft for the same heart problem. I'm on 100mg and I've been taking it for over a year. I've also noticed a lack of emotions. I don't cry a lot, but even when something really upsetting happens, I can't get any tears. I don't feel quite like a zombie, but it's almost like I have to tell myself what emotion I'm feeling. I don't know...SSRIs are crazy. I wish they knew more about how exactly they produce the effects that they do. - mikebritton, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7Exercise helps wrench my mind out of the rut that leads to social anxiety. I've heard a few people talk about feeling as if their creative energy is sapped by Paxil, including the author's claim to feel creatively inhibited; this is true initially, as your body gets used to the drug, but once you adjust your dosage, Paxil (for those who really need it) can help you focus on problems and drill down to their source instead of hovering on the outside, too anxious to go beyond surface analysis. This can lead to some interesting breakthroughs in your personal and professional life.
I think prescription drugs should be a last resort, but (ironically) I also feel strongly that depression and anxiety make life a lot more miserable than Paxil's gradually diminishing side effects. - Web_Weasel, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7This is why antidepressants get such a bad rap. There were so many things done wrong. First, he went to a GP for the prescription. Most of them don't know all that much about treating depression/SAD. Second, there was no ramp up to the final dosage so he had nasty side effects. Side effects are going to happen with SSRIs ramp up helps keep them to a minimum. Third, there was no followup. He went over a month without the doctor checking how well it was working. A doctor who works with depression checks every couple of weeks at first just to make sure there aren't any problems like this guy had.
If you think you need drugs find a good therapist. They can tell you if you need to see a psychiatrist for drugs and those will be monitored.
Me, I've got severe depression with some SAD. I take 300mg of Effexor XR daily. If I had gone the route this guy did I still would be trapped in my brain. - futurepastnow, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7@datigz
I think your experience illustrates the difference between someone who only thinks they have a problem (the article) and someone who actually does. Being shy and afraid of public speaking isn't a mental illness. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7"I'm forwarding it onto people too. I don't think it's necessary to be on drugs that mess with your nerves. It just seems so unnatrual to me."]
Then it's evident you've never been in that situation. Ignorance is bliss, im afraid. - colol, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8@LowenSoDium
Actually, a psychologist wouldn't prescribe drugs. That's outside of their practice, and generally speaking they don't have scripting rights anyway. Psychology revolves around the mind healing the mind.
Psychiatry is the version with exciting drugs to alter the brain chemistry.
If you don't want to go on drugs, you specifically choose a psychologist. -
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