What is Digg?153 Comments
- fly44d, on 10/12/2007, -3/+72Great interview by Dobbs and Hitchens. Hitchens allowed to get his point across and Dobbs listened. Amazing!
- artofwar420, on 10/12/2007, -3/+71Indeed, I'm flabbergasted at the politeness shown here that is usually lacking in our "news" shows. Dobbs let him actually talk. OMGWTFBBQ.
- d686, on 10/12/2007, -13/+68word. good to see enlightened, reasoned people struggling to tilt the balance back from "faith" in the retarded media culture we have.
- sonaro, on 10/12/2007, -15/+61It's only because CNN is a libtard channel and we all know that liberals hate god and eat aborted babies.
/ - kisore, on 10/12/2007, -7/+52"Religion ends and philosophy begins, just as alchemy ends and chemistry begins and astrology ends and astronomy begins."
So true! - Vicissidude, on 10/12/2007, -5/+45Dobbs let the man speak his mind, without shouting him down, but instead asking intelligent questions. If anything, I can imagine the religious nuts out there chomping at the bit for Dobbs to lay into the guy, which never happened. This news segment greatly increased my respect for Dobbs, which was pretty high anyway.
After the bigotry of Paula Zahn a few months ago on the same network, this was quite a breath of fresh air. Compare the two videos and you'll see what I mean.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fPHnXrU5JzU - Pile, on 10/12/2007, -11/+43Very good video. Atheists need more airtime in mainstream media.
Religious people have dozens of 24-hour channels on tv. It would be nice if there was one secular channel on television. - dn11, on 10/12/2007, -3/+34Lou Dobbs = closet atheist?
- Dralha, on 10/12/2007, -7/+27
@ voltron
It is theism that is a ridiculous over-simplification of life as we know it: 'goddidit' is hardly an answer to anything. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+21@Def:
"You almost singlehandedly just proved my point about the condescending nature of atheists and their belief system."
I'm speaking as a biologist and medical researcher.
"You simply can't go one whole conversation without insulting the other parties inteligence."
That's because you are stupid. You make false claims and are uneducated on even the basics of evolution and therefore you are either ignorant, stupid or a liar.
"I will address just one of your claims, and since the burden of proof is on YOU (remember, I accept that my belief is faith, you claim yours is fact) you will have to prove its existence:"
Sure. Despite the fact that I shot down all your argument and you haven't contradicted anything I've said. I'll bite.
"Post links here so everyone can see, of photographic evidence of these fossils you claim to know exist, that bridge the entire gap of time between the primates that we know today, and mankind. I want to see multiple examples that are at least half intact....annnnnnnnd....go. Of course if you dont HAVE said examples, feel free to decline."
Wow photographs. Besides the disingenuous question, here are some which you could've found by using google
Human Evolution ancestral line http://www.handprint.com/LS/ANC/evol.html#chart
Human Fossil migration and pattern of dispersal http://www.handprint.com/LS/ANC/disp.html
Prominent Hominid Fossils http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/homs/specimen.html
The best site Time Space-Chart of hominid fossils http://www.msu.edu/~heslipst/contents/ANP440/
"Also, please stop insulting others. If you truly wish to benefit your cause, I can assure you, you are hurting it."
Then stop using lies. If you want to believe in your Creationist and ID beliefs go ahead. But stop ***** pushing your faith based bull into the classrooms. - Stagle, on 10/12/2007, -3/+22good interview if only it was the rule not the exception.
- gathly, on 10/12/2007, -4/+23@ voltron
random mutations mixed with about a billion years of time, don't forget. That's a pretty long time to discard mistakes and allow for intermediary stages. - BigBeachbum, on 10/12/2007, -1/+20With the RSS vs. Banana Boys Debate coming up, I feel that an intelligent interview among sound minds is desperately needed. Thank you Lou Dobbs and Christopher Hitchens for being polite and concise.
- chriskzoo, on 10/12/2007, -4/+22Sadly, he made the perfect point: In all areas of life we respect people that have reason, and yet somehow being a "person of faith" is seen as a positive, when it really just means you are willing to blindly accept things without any sort of proof.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -6/+24@volt: That is an argument from ignorance. There is not such thing is 'irreducible complexity'. We can easily find very different versions of eyes in nature from very simple light receptors in worms to basic modern eyes in octopii. Just because you don't understand something or can't imagine something, it doesn't conclude with 'god did it'.
- johnhummel, on 10/12/2007, -6/+23You made a good point, and I would have modded you up, but sadly your choice to be insulting by calling people "cocksucks" ruined it. Think about it, try again, only remove the ad homonym attacks. Thanks Bye.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -2/+19@def: I don't agree with Randall but your argument is false.
"Please bear in mind that evolution has never and can never be fully proven, it is, in fact, a theory."
That is continues to be the stupidest argument ever. Theory is used very differently by scientist despite your ignorance.
"American Heritage Dictionary: the·o·ry (thē'ə-rē, thîr'ē) n. pl. the·o·ries A set of statements or principles devised to explain a group of facts or phenomena, especially one that has been repeatedly tested or is widely accepted and can be used to make predictions about natural phenomena."
"I am sure you can find plenty of the word 'theory' elsewhere as well"
Which shows you don't even know how to use a dictionary,
"There are things that evolutionists claim to be evidence, and so do many other religions."
What the hell is an evolutionist? It is over 95% of all scientist and 99% of all biologist. Evolutionary theory has verified evidence. Religion has claims. Please state you evidence.
"And as a theory, it is held in high regard by some of the most religions people I have ever met in my life: Atheists."
False premise. Atheism is not a religion. Evolution is the foundation of all biological science and is believed by virtually all biological scientists.
"You believe in things you cant see (primate---->mankind links are completely missing, though they should have existed for millions of years)"
False. We have primate fossils. Many many many fossils along with many many other lines of evidence.
"You quickly dismiss facts as phenomenon (see cambrian explosion)"
And what about the cambrian explosion? It is an expansion of hard bodied organism and an increase of many different species over 5 million years. Many of these new species has since gone extinct. It is due to a change in the oxygen levels in the atmosphere and an increase in fossilization of many new lifeforms. What was your point about the Cambrian Explosion?
"and you insult others and demand the removal of their belief system simply because you dont agree with it."
I don't belief in unverified claims. Show me some evidence.
"Remove religion? Allright, let's start with evolution."
Absurd. Why don't we remove physics or chemistry. Perhaps you'd like to stop all vaccinations and remove medicine as well. You truly are stupid person and deserving of no respect. - illt, on 10/12/2007, -5/+21libtard channel that doesn't even have an athiest present for an athiest debate.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fPHnXrU5JzU - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -2/+18@Confuses: Ummm...scientists have looked at the whole idea of Chi/prana etc. and have no evidence to prove its existence as of yet. There is some basis on it by looking at the calming effects of meditation etc. on the brain, pain etc. but there is nothing physical or mystical found as of yet.
Just because many people believe it does not make it real. - MudMan69, on 10/12/2007, -6/+21"believing in a Higher Power is soo part of human nature, its not going to disappear because of an opinion of a British Cocksuck...."
Genocide is also soo part of human nature. It doesn't mean we shouldn't try to rise above it. - johnhummel, on 10/12/2007, -2/+17I just hope it was better than his appearance on "The Daily Show" - my wife and I started to wonder if he had a few to drink backstage before the appearance. I read the first two chapters on Slate - very interesting stuff on the Koran that gave me a lot more information than I had before.
- gathly, on 10/12/2007, -2/+16Hitchens is famous for his drunkenness. He had clearly had a few on The Daily Show, but that is not unusual for him. He is from the old school of debate and philosophy, which states "in vino veritas," however in Hitchens' case, I think it's whiskey not wine.
- guytoronto, on 10/12/2007, -4/+18There is a lot wrong with religion. Organized religions just amplifies it.
- Vicissidude, on 10/12/2007, -0/+13@confuseus
Billions of people believed the Earth was flat. That didn't make it correct. They just assumed it was flat from looking at the horizon. Once scientists started looking at the environment, making measurements, and doing calculations, it didn't take long to learn the truth that the world was round.
Just because billions of people assume a statement to be true does not mean it actually is true. If you claim something as true, then you have to provide hard evidence that it is correct. It is not up to the rest of us to show you are wrong. It is up to you to prove that you are right.
You say you believe in Chi. Fine. Show us the evidence. No, meditation is not evidence. - Albion01, on 10/12/2007, -1/+14Pascals wager? Come on! *sadly shakes his head*
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+14@Def: A disingenuous argument.
"The major difference I see, is that while Christianity and other religions are accepted as religions (personal beliefs in something that we cannot see)"
It is called Blind Faith.
"evolution (tightly tied with atheism) is taught as fact, even though evolutionists believe in something that they cannot see."
False. Evolution became tied with atheism because of theist such as yourself who aren't able to think for yourself, tied it to atheism. Besides the point, evolution is backed up by DNA, fossil and and other biological evidence. Oh yes, we can see evolution in action in bacteria, flies and other small animals.
"While one is taught openly in schools, the other is banned from schools."
Evolution is science. You want to ban history and physics as well?
"While Christians (at least we SHOULD, there are tons of whackos out there) be accepting and loving of others, there seems to be a trend among atheists/evolutionists to strike down the entire faith, simply because they dont agree."
Wow, I'm feeling the love from you.
"while their belief core is founded on made up figures, made up creatures, and made up incidents, none of which can be proven, they continue to mock MY faith as the fairy tale."
Please state you evidence that the evidence is made up and cannot be proven or you are just slandering evolution and a liar. Evolution and scientist do not mock your faith, you're are directing your anger at the wrong direction. Perhaps archeology and astronomy mock your faith as well? Is your faith so weak that REALITY shakes it?
"I admit mine is a faith, a belief in something I cannot see, atheists insist that THEIR religion is proven and fact; this simply is not true."
Atheism is not a religion. I find it funny that you would malign atheism by calling it the same as your belief.
Keep you unsupported beliefs out of my life and out education system and perhaps atheist will stop mocking your weak and pathetic attempts at trying to discredit evolution. - simonn, on 10/12/2007, -6/+19"To me, atheism is a ridiculous over-simplification of life as we know it. "
Atheism has nothing to do with "life as we know it". It is simply non-belief in a deity.
I think the point you are making is the typical "life is far to complicated to have just happened".
Where does your favourite flavour of sky-man fit in on the scale of complexity? He made everything (before he "let their be light", so not only did he make everything, he must have made it in the dark!!!), so I imagine he must have been pretty complicated at one point in time. How did he arise?
There is plenty of published literature on this very theme. Read some of it. - MehYam, on 10/12/2007, -1/+13confuseus, oy vay:
>how has science disproved it?
That's fairly ignorant - the onus is on the prover, not the disprover. Google for "celestial teapot". There are many wild ideas that can't be disproven.
>just because science can't explain it doesn't mean it's disproved.
So instead you turn to made-up concepts like "Chi"? How far would science have gotten if people just threw in the towel the instant science failed to explain something? Science grows and improves over time. Concepts like "Chi" are dead ends, antithesis to this process.
>all you have to do is meditate for 2 months and you feel it yourself.
I agree, meditation feels great and has many benefits. That doesn't prove "Chi". - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+13I agree that the Lou Dobbs(even if you disagree with him) is a gentleman when he interviews someone. He never screams or shouts and is always polite.
Your point about science being misused is not science. 'Small statistics' and paid anti-global warming studies is not science but bad science and politics. It is politicians and business trying to trick people into believing their policies under the guise of science.
I can respect religious people and their views. However, I do not respect the religion itself so as long as the theist keep their beliefs personal and not try to impose their beliefs onto others, I don't have a problem with religion at all. Unfortunately, many theist are not like that. - Crid, on 10/12/2007, -3/+14> Hitchens allowed to get his point
> across and Dobbs listened. Amazing!
Exactly. That almost never happens. I think Lou Dobbs is a pretty weak media figure, but his fealty to Hitch in this interview raises him greatly in my estimation. Dobbs also has the dignity to be contrite about his part of the cartoon fiasco... TV news people are almost never contrite!
(I got my copy of Hitch's book autographed last weekend) - jcims, on 10/12/2007, -2/+13I think Jesus Christ would agree wholeheartedly, '_religion_ poisons everything'.
- Crid, on 10/12/2007, -0/+10> started to wonder if he
> had a few to drink backstage
People talk about it as if it mattered, but only to the people who disagree with him anyway. Let's not forget how tightly wired this guy is, how fast and large his memory is. I've seen him on TV dozens of times and in person a handful. The truth is that alcohol's only strong enough to slur his speech, never his arguments... And I've heard his voice slow down precisely one time.
People who mock him as a drunkard are crying uncle: He leaves them nothing else to work with. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -2/+11Wow. You're either ignorant or lying.
Philosophy arose as an attempt to explain reality. It has since left religion behind and supplanted it when it comes to explaining our beliefs. Alchemy is proto-chemistry with mystical BS thrown in and astrology was astronomy before astronomy left all that celestial mumbo-jumbo behind.
I suggest a better book: "The Jesus Mysteries: Was the "Original Jesus" a Pagan God?" by Freke and Gandy. A flawed but interesting look at an alternate view of the historical Jesus - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -2/+12@Def:
"You almost singlehandedly just proved my point about the condescending nature of atheists and their belief system."
I'm speaking as biologist.
"You simply can't go one whole conversation without insulting the other parties inteligence."
That's because you are stupid. You make false claims and are uneducated on even the basics of evolution and therefore you are either ignorant, stupid or a liar.
"I will address just one of your claims, and since the burden of proof is on YOU (remember, I accept that my belief is faith, you claim yours is fact) you will have to prove its existence:"
Sure. Despite the fact that I shot down all your argument and you haven't contradicted anything I've said. I'll bite.
"Post links here so everyone can see, of photographic evidence of these fossils you claim to know exist, that bridge the entire gap of time between the primates that we know today, and mankind. I want to see multiple examples that are at least half intact....annnnnnnnd....go. Of course if you dont HAVE said examples, feel free to decline."
Wow photographs. Besides the disingenuous question, here are some which you could've found by using google
Human Evolution ancestral line http://www.handprint.com/LS/ANC/evol.html#chart
Human Fossil migration and pattern of dispersal http://www.handprint.com/LS/ANC/disp.html
Prominent Hominid Fossils http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/homs/specimen.html
The best site Time Space-Chart of hominid fossils http://www.msu.edu/~heslipst/contents/ANP440/
"Also, please stop insulting others. If you truly wish to benefit your cause, I can assure you, you are hurting it."
Then stop using lies. If you want to believe in your Creationist and ID beliefs go ahead. But stop ***** pushing your faith based bull into the classrooms. - askegg, on 10/12/2007, -0/+9He is saying that philosophy started out under the guise of religion. It is now time to shed the religous tag and call it what it really is.
- avasol, on 10/12/2007, -6/+15The Human Eye is NOT Irreductibly Complex
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Stb9pQc9Kq0
But the problem is rather that no matter how many scientific theories or irrefutable proof that is shown, fundies will have a hard time understanding simply because to them - faith is blind, dumb and requires absolute obedience to dogma. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -2/+10@Confuses: "meditation is self proof. i trust myself more than i trust a ruler or a beaker, sigh. you're missing out is all i'm saying."
Do you realize how ridiculous that notion is? Are you trusting your medicines on faith? Research does not work that way.
That is a logical fallacy. You are arguing through self experience which is a weak form of evidence. It is not invalid, but it is very weak. If you can repeat your experience is several hundred meditators, you may prove the benefit of medidation but not the existance of chi. First of all. What is Chi? How do you define Chi? How do you measure Chi? - Abaddon1125, on 10/12/2007, -2/+10@cerg7
That's the worst analogy ever.
It assumes that evolution is completely random, and that it begins with nothing and ends in a fully functional, modern being, and that that being doesn't replicate. Faulty Analogy is a reasoning fallacy, you know. Bad reasoning = worthless argument. - g30ff, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8@johnhummel
"Think about it, try again, only remove the ad homonym attacks."
That has to be one of the most delightful malapropisms that I have ever seen (for those who don't get it, what he was going for was "ad hominem"--an argument aimed at the person--and homonyms are words that share the same spelling or pronunciation such as hominem and homonym). - fwedwic, on 10/12/2007, -2/+10mirJams
lol, ur kidding right.... - neoform, on 10/12/2007, -9/+17Bought the book a few days ago..
So far, very good read. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+9"evolutionists believe in something that they cannot see"
You're kidding right? There are numerous examples of evolution going on around us every day. Saying it cannot be seen means you're ignoring quite a large amount of readily available data. Why is evolution anti-theist anyway? (I see imperium beat me on this one)
As for why religion isn't taught in schools, it's simply not the right place for it. You want to teach religion, have at it in a church or a private school with proper religion teachers, but I don't understand why you'd even want religion in the school's curriculum, outside of its place in history classes. I was raised Catholic in the Baptist South. No way I would have gotten a fair shake on religion in the school system. No, keep religion out of the schools and in the hands of people who actually value it for what it is. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+9I think the issue is that when Hitchens is Bush's biggest fanboy, he's always dragged out by the media and conservative pundits. But when he writes a book about atheism, they seem to abandon him.
- chriskzoo, on 10/12/2007, -7/+14Hitchens is an American now, awesome. I've been watching him on and off since I think the 2000 election and the guy is almost always spot on.
Welcome to America! - Y2Krieger, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8@defdef
How in the world can you say that evolution is made up? Scientists have been studying this for centuries and have amassed tons of physical evidence that it has occured over time! Evolution also does not fly in the face of religion either (particularly Christianity, although I don't personally believe in 'devine creation'), so attributing evolution strictly to atheism is a stereotype that you are applying to the theory (a theory is science is back up by scientific facts, lots of them in fact, so it's not really a "thoery", so to say). If you've read anythign about HOX genes or genetics or the similaries between animals in the animal kingdom, you'd clearly see why these real mutations do occur and can be performed in a laboratory (maniputaing the DNA by gene insertion). You simply cannot deny that this happens! This is why its taught in schools (and should be).
In response to my response,
I do not hold an alligence to a god (or gods) and I'd be as bold to say that most atheists and agnostics don't. And I am glad that you fully intend on reading the book, many Christians or other people of faith wouldn't. But I say you are damned for trying to belief in the book because it's blasphemy to you (it's kind of a commandment, you know, something you're supposedly 'supposed' to go to Hell over), which is probably a big reason why you wouldn't ever be able to accept it. - reventlov, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7@crid
"People who mock him as a drunkard are crying uncle: He leaves them nothing else to work with."
Ad hominem attacks are the best way to go when you can't win an argument based on facts or logic. After watching a few interviews with this man I can see why his opponents would resort to this blatant fallacy: He's so smart he's scary. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -3/+10@defdef
God gave you ears to listen, eyes to read, and a brain to comprehend
use them, or people will continue calling you an idiot. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8@BigBently: and the huge number of Christian books published every year about the end of times, the rapture and the evils of other religions are read by whom?
- ThisistheEdge, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7The Digg-o-crat nation may not want to embrace Hitchens too quickly....Take a look at his book "No one left to lie to: The values of the worst family" Not very flattering (but completely deserved) treatment of the Clintons.
- Angostura, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7The flatworm retina consists of a cluster of-light sensitive cells that let it perceive light, dark and perhaps movement. This very very simple assembly works very well and confers substantial survival advantage over a blind flatworm. You don't think natural selection could improve on this arrangement given a few billion years?
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