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- adinb, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6The documents we are submitting (Exhibit A) show that as of 1987, DuPont'" knowingly
produced Zonyl, a paper coating chemical allowed for food contact use, in a manner
where the amount of Zonyl that migrated into foods (0.62 ppm) was over three times
the FDA-agreed upon limits (Exhibit B). Zonyl was, and presumably still is, used as a
grease and water barrier for paper food containers for hundreds of popular food items
from French fry and pizza boxes to cookie and doughnut packages, candy wrappers, and
microwave popcorn bags.
The allowable level (a.k.a. extraction limit) of Zonyl in food is 0.2 ppm, and this
amount was the basis for the regulation set by FDA in 1967 that governs the amount of
Zonyl that may be applied to papers useld as food packaging and hot food containers:
0.17 lb/1000 sq ft. This is still the legal level today [21 CFR 176.1701. The enclosed
document shows that DuPont knew that applying Zonyl to paper at this rate resulted in
Zonyl in food at three times the level that FDA found safe in 1967 (0.62 found in 1987
vs. 0.2 established as the limit in 1967). We have very strong reasons to believe that
DuPont never informed the FDA of this important finding even though it is clear that it
could have had a major impact on the public health, and could have triggered a
reevaluation of the safety of the Zonyl as a paper coating that leached into foods.
What makes this worse is that DuPont knew at that time that Zonyl breakdown-
products, such as PFOA, in food were very persistent in the environment and were
contaminating human blood, including the fetal cord blood of babies born to DuPont
female employees. - sebastien, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5It's kind of silly to say that all these people are still alive, so teflon must be safe. Asbestos was considered safe for millenia (read the wikipedia article) with the first studies suggesting its deleterious effects coming out in the early 1900s. Even today, people continue to die from working with asbestos (though probably not any in the western world).
How long before we know exactly how teflon (or the chemical that binds teflon to the pan) is dangerous?
Me? I'm sticking to cast iron pans. They have 6000 years of testing; they cook well; and if iron gets into your food, it's good for you. - adinb, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4From the multiple articles on the net:
"The chemical Zonyl can rub off the liner and get into food. Once in a person's body, it can break down into perfluorooctanoic acid and its salts, known as PFOA, a related chemical used in the making of Teflon-coated cookware."
Link to Wikipedia entry for PFOA: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perfluorooctanoic_acid - theone3, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Wikipedia sez: In pathology, a carcinogen is any substance or agent that promotes cancer by altering cellular metabolism or damaging DNA directly in cells, which interferes with normal biological processes.
Well.. it sounds bad. - baltakatei, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5Actually, it is impossible to foresee the long-term effects of chemicals used in many everyday products we buy. No one has done a study of the effects of handling dry-erase markers over a person's lifetime because dry-erase markers are still relatively new. What about Lysol? Or toner?
What are manufacturers like DuPont going to do? They won't halt the release of a very profitable product just because a single chemical (among many) that appears benign in the short term could possibly shorten people's lives over long periods of time.
It's just a risk that we all have to be subjected to. - Diela, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Wikipedia mentions that the studies done by DuPont were studies of the chemicals effects on *employees* and not the average consumer. I think this article is misinterpretation at its worst, assuming things and making it sensationalistic. When I see a covered-up DuPont study of consumer risk, then I'll be worried.
- CaptSnuffy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3I stopped using teflon cookware a a while ago
can't help that, stuff like this constanly happens throughout history. asbestos was hailed as a miracle, now not so much. clouroflourocarbons had a similar history. nuclear power was thought to be a near-magical force, and was used for outlandish medical uses. And crap like this: http://www.mtn.org/quack/devices/shoexray.htm . As technology advances, we're going to develop things we think are miracles but actually are the exact opposite. Trans-fatty acids are another bad product in foods. The FDA has even called it out as being highly deadly, and this is from the same organization that says having a little bit of rat ***** (yes, rat droppings, poop, crap, feces!) in your food is perfectly acceptable. Strange world we live in. - adinb, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3From the Environmental Working Group website:
"Former DuPont Top Expert: Company Knew, Covered Up Pollution of Americans' Blood for 18 Years
Documents: Company Couldn't Find Safe Level of Exposure in 1973 to Chemical that Never Breaks Down, Clings to Human Blood
Study Results Show Company Found Safer Ways to Coat Food Packaging But Shelved Them to Save Money"
http://www.ewg.org/issues/pfcs/20051116/index.php - adinb, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3From reading this, some of the alarm...and some of the story should be that the EPA and government haven't done much of anything (across administrations...not just this one).
Does anyone know anything about how carcinogenic PFOA is? - CaptainCalculus, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3I see the problem with companies not monitoring what they produce especially in the food industry. However, in this day and age, about 80% of the time everything we use has some form of carcinogen in it. While it is true that if you eat an ungodly amount of candy bars with the wrappers still on them, you will get sick. Everything you eat, use, masturbate with, etc will expose you to some usually small amount of a cancer-causing agent.
But, in reality, these extremely low amounts of agents are expelled from the body in a timely fashion to prevent large amounts of these agents to buildup.
I do remember one time when I was filling up a 5 gallon water cooler for a soccer match. I got the hose out and filled it up. When I finished I lugged it back to the bunker where all the kids were. One of the parents came to me and told me that I needed to dump it out because of the cancer-causing agents in the hose that seep into the water only 1/a million times. I assured him that I let the hose run for a few seconds to let all the dirt out of the hose and that probably got most of these agents he spoke about that were going to seep into the water out of the hose. Of course, being an adult and me a punk teenager at the time, he threatened to make a scene. So, I dumped out the water right next to the bunker and went back refilled it without the hose.
I really hate dump people who watch CSI and think that hoses are now toxic because some guy ate a foot section of the hose and died from cancer.
Come on you know the type, right?
All I am saying is that while this is no laughing matter, I think that the public goes a tad bit overboard about all this. Suddenly, they hear cancer and everything must be changed... - adinb, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2One of the documents, a 1987 memo, cites laboratory tests showing the chemical came off paper coating and leached into foods at levels three times higher than the FDA limit set in 1967. Another document, a 1973 Dupont study in which rats and dogs were fed Zonyl for 90 days, said both types of animals had anemia and damage to their kidneys and livers; the dogs had higher cholesterol levels.
- foxhoundadmin, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2"When I see a covered-up DuPont study of consumer risk, then I'll be worried."
Diela, did you even read the article?
"I'm sorry, any Website with a feature article entitled: "The wit and wisdom of Osama bin Laden" has Zero credibility with me..."
i agree, but do you trust the sources where the real information can be found (msnbc)?
the enviromental working group is a political lobby... : - Advocate, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2"Tyvek is one of those products that was invented for no other reason than to manufacture a market for something we never needed in the first place.
And that's why companies like DuPont aren't good for society. They get to a point where the only criteria is the market and how much they are selling. And that's really why we need more oversight/regulation...not less. Large corporations simply do not have a track record of being a good member of society."
WOW!
do a little research on tyvek... i think there's something out there called google for that.... banners are only one use for tyvek.... also included is high strength medical containers (you know the things that transport organs to people dying?)... or what about tyvek hazmat suits, you know the things used by the military to protect against bio/chem warfare...
oh, i forgot... it's www.google.com - dknighton, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2It's sad that sensationalism is more important than accuracy in media these days. This is a scare tactic that is way out ahead of any actual, meticulously researched data.
Do some corporations attempt cover-ups? Of course, but that doesn't mean they ALL do it. As humans, we create things, we use things, we improve things. If we find a number of years later that something is unhealthy or dangerous, we fix it. I don't know why there has to be a conspiracy and a ***** payday of a lawsuit attached to every single oversight.
Americans (of which I am one) are vultures, plain and simple. Welcome to the liberal ideal! - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2also for people that dont trust this website, here is the story:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10082924/ - jeylux, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2this is stupid.
hasn't anyone figure this out yet?
EVERYTHING YOU DO CAUSES CANCER.
Anything man-made, causes cancer.
smoking, causes cancer.
LIFE IS CANCER...
it's impossible to do a study that will document the effects of a given sustance for 100+ years, unless we've got a long ass time to check it out, and if we did that.. guess what? no new products...ever.
This is just like dixion issues that were in michigan...
Always a load of crap. - txzman, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2That's nothing. Before the 1920s Lead in the atmosphere was virtually unknown. Today, because of the Ethyl Corporation (and big oil) the amount of lead in the atmosphere we breathe is surprisingly high. Every man, woman and child has parts per million levels that would surprise you. Then there are CFCs...
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3baltakatei: Well said, and I totally agree.
Like the old adage "somethings gonna kill ya" But it's not going to be a conspiracy theory.
- digg - JzLosman, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2so those "this is your brain on drugs" commericials where they used a pan to fry an egg were actually saying the pan was your brain on teflon. This whole time I thought the egg was important.
Has anyone been diagnosed with anything related to the teflon chemical, cause I feel pretty good and I've been eating pizza and popcorn for along ass time. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1lol look at the google ads at the top:
"Free Popcorn Machine" and "Popcorn Maker" - adinb, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Diela--read the article, letter and document scans on the EWG website.
- jeylux, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1"
Tyvek is one of those products that was invented for no other reason than to manufacture a market for something we never needed in the first place.
And that's why companies like DuPont aren't good for society. They get to a point where the only criteria is the market and how much they are selling. And that's really why we need more oversight/regulation...not less. Large corporations simply do not have a track record of being a good member of society."
How can you say that?
If there was no need for the product it wouldn't sell... now if you create a comsumer need then you're just good at marketing, but... maybe you haven't noticed.. people like banners...
and having a strength material for a banner that won't rip under it's own weight, seems like a good idea to me...
then again i guess we should all live in caves and beat each other with sticks. - jeylux, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1what alterantives would you suggest for building a home rather than tyvek?
You make the point it's not needing but you failed to follow up with an alterantive that one could use?
Perhaps spray foam? Probably dupont product, if not maybe dow or dow-corning... oh... wait. they're all pretty much megochemical production plants...
whats the solution? sarayn rap? wait... dow product...
i mean, seriously... is there much we touch or do that isn't related?
This keyboard i am typing on , probably made with dow plastics...
the ink-pen i chew on, odds are it has dow plastics, and DuPont's plastic dyes in it...
now... tell me. how do we all close a company that doesn't make a lot of the stuff we use but makes aspects of each product? - Klaus1250, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Also interesting: http://www.chiefexecutive.net/ME2/dirmod.asp?sid=&nm=&type=Publishing&mod=Publications%3A%3AArticle&mid=8F3A7027421841978F18BE895F87F791&tier=4&id=C7AAFBEB18FD4484A6A8F811E40E1BB0
- BadassMutha4000, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1is there an article from a little more reputable site than 'sploid.com'?
- mpdman, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Oddly enough isn't it interesting that MSNBC reports this but yet doesn't tell about their parent company?
General electric put pcb's in the hudson river in NY for years and years. there was actually a significant boycott of ge when they bought nbc in the 80's - wavesmash, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Who eats microwave popcorn anyway? That stuff is partially-hydrogenated badness.
- JzLosman, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1@dimplemoney - Yeah typo, sorry. And it was just a joke anyhow.
@jeylux -- "Anything man-made, causes cancer. "smoking, causes cancer."
thank you for that powerful example. Smoking is the most obvious cancer-causing man-made object. You would have made your point much stronger if you didn't use something commonly refered to as "the cancer stick." That is just too easy. I want more proof.
But seriously, alot of things in life give you bacteria and harmful agents (not so much cancer like yall have been pushing) that may get you sick, but I have lived 20 years and none of that ***** has made me terminal. Don't worry about it, our bodies are tough, we can handle some pretty nasty *****.
Much love - okto, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Good story, good digg, but people really are too afraid of cancer.
Cancer isn't a specific disease, you know. It's a symptom. Anytime cells multiply at too rapidly a rate due to genetic damage, it's cancer. Almost nobody--in fact some doctors say not a single person--doesn't have or will have some form of cancer while they're alive.
Think of cancer as a really, really severe cold: super common and everyone gets them. And people did used to die from colds.
Of course, if the allegations are true, DuPont should be nailed to the wall. - dimplemonkey, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1omish? you mean amish?
anyway, what doesn't give us cancer these days? if not the containers, then the ingredients in the food, the combination, the air we breathe, blah, blah, blah.
just live your life to the fullest. - Advocate, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I come from a dupont family and live near the corp HQ. I remember hearing stories about all the hypocrites yelling bloody murder about how DuPont is killing the world... meanwhile they depend daily on products made by the big bad monster.... one such story was really funny...
some protesters snuck into DuPont HQ in downtown wilmington DE, they made their way to the roof with a HUGE anti-DuPont banner that was to be draped down the side of the building... the problem was the banner was to be so large that most materials of the time would rip under the banners own weight.... there was however one material that could do the job.... it was called tyvek.... made by DuPont... in fact (like most DuPont roll-fabrics) the DuPont logo is printed on the back in great big letters... well the protesters made the news... but most reporters were not impressed by their blatant hypocrisy.... - Karyyk, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1OK, where do I sign to get my $1.24 settlement...
- JzLosman, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1"it's illegal to sell cigarettes but nothings happens to those companies."
what country do you live in. Cigarettes are completely legal in the US, and actually the government loves it cause its money in their pockets. You can't sell cigs to a minor but thats the only limitation.
Wait, are you omish or something? - Jocose, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Anyone who found that site "untrustworth" should also note that it cited an MSNBC article....http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10082924/
- JzLosman, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0@srj76 - try reading the comments first, at least 2 people posted links to this story on Msnbc and other more reputable news sources.
- Advocate, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0@yllabianbitpipe
what? you hear something bad about frontal lobotomies?
Digg it brother, Digg it!
...Welcome to the real world Neo.... oh, and by the way we feel it important to notify you that the green pill has been shown to cause cancer in lab rats. - Soniti, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0To those saying DuPont will burn for this:
Do you really think so? A company like DuPont has never been seen before: Think about this- They take the bi-products of a VERY important substance (oil), and in turn make VERY important things that we use in our everyday lives. I'm 100% sure that they have a crack team of lawyers at their disposal, and they will find a way to beat this.
In short, we will continue to be poisoned because not only does it keep DuPont one of the richest corporations in the world, but because we can't function without many of the items that DuPont makes, or has discovered.
Plus Jeff Gordon drives their car- And he kind of kicks ass...
~Soniti - Wolfman~K, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0so in 197x whenever the fda approved this substance, they knew what they were doing?
hmmm doubtful. - DisposableRob, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0If it takes decades to kill you, then it isn't all that bad. We've just become a nation of pussies.
You will die, and not from old age. You will die of cancer. You will die of heart disease. You will die in an accident. Stop worrying about it and live your life. - jeylux, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0FDA is always one step ahead of invention...
invent a new product, FDA will have an MSDS on it before you can even name it!
That's how good they are! - diggmonkey, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Not in my popcorn dammit! I'd go back to popping in a pan if I could find good corn. Jiffy pop used to be fine but now it's aways tough. Same with Jolly Time. I don't buy the gourmet since I don't see paying over $3/lb for corn. I may have to reassess my priorities, heh. :/
- JzLosman, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0that or the amount of poison is minut and not the end of the world. Yeah I'm sure it can mess up some people but damn, we've had worse things to freak out about in the past year.
- fishstick, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0"is there an article from a little more reputable site than 'sploid.com'?"
AP is also carrying this:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/teflon_insider - dhughes, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0 It's more like stupid things cause most cancers;smoking, fatty foods(come on...microwave popcorn?that stuff is evil), alcohol(a Class 1 Carcinogen).
Polytetrafluoroethylene may be bad for you, no *****?
If you think it's bad for you, it probably is. - ThePhilomath, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0“These products are safe for consumer use,” the company said in a statement. “FDA has approved these materials for consumer use since the late 1960s, and DuPont has always complied with all FDA regulations and standards regarding these products.”
- remember these words people. Remember them when they are proven wrong and put them out of business!!! - ThePhilomath, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0@jeylux
True, innovation is good, but this is simply blatant disregard for public safety. They knew its effects yet still sold it.
When Enron has unethical business practices or when Martha Stewart has unethical practices we persecute them. But when it comes to bad business practice and public health we don't do anything? Resign to the idea that everything causes cancer nowadays?
I don't, I hold them accountable. - jeylux, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0@ Thephilomath
What about all the other good products that DuPont produces?
Unfortunately in we wave of innovation there will be casualties.. this is how we learn....
Unless of course you want to not have innovation? - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0This doesnt look like a credible news source.
- yllabianbitpipe, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0if this is proved to be dangerous, it's the type of thing people living 25 years from now will look back on with pity and a bit of "people sure were duped back then," much how some today view cigarette smoking, thalidomide, asbestos, and those frontal lobotomies...
- swaxhog, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0People should watch "The Corporation" and then realize this is not shocking at all. Just another day.
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