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Can Turtles live forever?

nytimes.com — “Turtles don ’t really die of old age,” Dr. Raxworthy said. In fact, if turtles didn’t get eaten, crushed by an automobile or fall prey to a disease, he said, they might just live indefinitely.

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  • EmmSee, on 10/12/2007, -4/+212Now they have more reasons to rip them apart and study them. This is bad news for turtles!
    • FearlessFreep, on 10/12/2007, -6/+205Eventually they will discover that the only cause of death for turtles is...scientists dissecting them to figure out why they don't die
    • LostOnion, on 10/12/2007, -49/+7BearOwned, you seem to be shooting for a personal record of negative diggs today.
    • riah, on 10/12/2007, -9/+116...Infinite-age Mutant Ninja Turtles?
    • dclowd9901, on 10/12/2007, -41/+4Living forever's great, but what good is being a turtle if you can't bed Nicole Richie?
    • kevinmotel, on 10/12/2007, -7/+125"Living forever's great, but what good is being a turtle if you can't bed Nicole Richie?"

      living forever and not once feeling the urge to bed nicole richie
    • AllnightChemist, on 10/12/2007, -12/+5Too bad warm-blooded creatures can't use the organs of cold-blooded turtles. I'd have really like a tortoise heart, too.
    • f8pc, on 10/12/2007, -19/+4If humans didn't fall and die, have diseases, get hit by a car, then they would live forever , too. Humans don't just die of old age. There are unknown reasons as to why they die. It just hasn't been figured out yet.
    • CanceledCzech, on 10/12/2007, -3/+14@FearlessFreep

      Yeah, that and Shredder's minions.
    • cam0man, on 10/12/2007, -17/+4Nothing dies from 'old age', it's called heart failure.

      If humans didn't get disease, didn't get crushed, or hit by automobiles, maybe we'd live forever too. You'd be extremely frail, but this topic is ridiculous.
    • FearlessFreep, on 10/12/2007, -2/+12@CanceledCzech

      Since when have Shredder's Minions actually caused the death of a turtle? That seems to be the least of their worries :)
    • StringAnomaly, on 10/12/2007, -6/+7Someone, please correct me if I'm wrong, but I seriously thought that this is the case for humans as well, and most other living organisms. I've also read before that "old age" hasn't been a classification for death since 1951.
      (http://www.discover.com/issues/sep-06/departments/20thingsdeath/ this has been on digg before)

      In that case, how is this limited to turtles?

      On another note I'm positive that at some point, simply from a crude mechanical view, their heart and other organs cannot function indefinitely due to wear. I'm sure they could live longer, but not forever.
    • ceoandpresident, on 10/12/2007, -14/+90Yes, but will they Blend?
    • TKDWILSON, on 10/12/2007, -16/+15"""""If humans didn't fall and die, have diseases, get hit by a car, then they would live forever , too. Humans don't just die of old age. There are unknown reasons as to why they die. It just hasn't been figured out yet.""""""

      Please tell me that was a joke. Humans die of old age. The counters on the cells in the body reach 0 and the body ages and dies. There are death certificates that say "old age". People do die of old age.

      Eric Wilson
    • goatrandy, on 10/12/2007, -9/+16TKDWILSON is correct. Humans DO die of old age. Every time a cell replicates it 'uses up' a little bit of the DNAs telomerase. Once there isn't anymore telomerase that cell will not replicate again.

      Hence wrinkles, bad hearts, increasing odds of cancer, liver failure, and all of the other fun stuff that comes with aging.
    • nepawoods, on 10/12/2007, -1/+10@StringAnomaly

      "Someone, please correct me if I'm wrong, but I seriously thought that this is the case for humans as well, and most other living organisms."

      Humans age. After a certain point, things start to deteriorate, and the likelihood of something bad happening during any given year becomes greater and greater. A 100 year old individual is far more likely to die within the next year than a 30 year old individual. The claim is that this isn't true for turtles. Lobsters are another example. Older and older lobsters are just bigger versions of younger lobsters. They don't get arthritis, or any other age-related debilitating condition.

      That said, nothing can live indefinitely unless its rate of growth slows such that there is a limit on its size as its age approaches ... infinite. An animals mass grows faster than its strength, for instance, and at a certain size, it can no longer lift its own weight. There may be possible exception to this rule - bouyant sea creatures for instance (sponges?).
    • LanceHardenburg, on 10/12/2007, -15/+3"Hence wrinkles, bad hearts, increasing odds of cancer, liver failure, and all of the other fun stuff that comes with aging."

      Are you kidding? Wrinkles are caused by the sun not aging.
    • goatrandy, on 10/12/2007, -3/+9"Are you kidding? Wrinkles are caused by the sun not aging."

      @LanceHardenburg - That was a joke, right?
    • NeutrinoQ, on 10/12/2007, -7/+4@ceoandpresident:

      Its been 5 minutes, and I'm still laughing.
    • LanceHardenburg, on 10/12/2007, -9/+1@goatrandy
      Absolutely not. Do your research man.

      "The role of the sun cannot be overestimated as the most important cause of prematurely aging skin (called photoaging) and skin cancers. Overall, exposure to ultraviolet (referred to as UVA or UVB) radiation emanating from sunlight accounts for about 90% of the symptoms of premature skin aging, and most of these effects occur by age 20:

      * Even small amounts of UV radiation trigger process leading to skin wrinkles.

      * Long-term repetitive and cumulative exposure to sunlight appears to be responsible for the vast majority of undesirable consequences of aging skin, including basal cell and squamous cell carcinomas.

      * Melanoma is more likely to be caused by intense exposure to sunlight in early life."
    • goatrandy, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4@LanceHardenburg - Dude. PREMATURE aging. Actual, normal wrinkling is caused by the preprogrammed cell death of normal skin cells. You just start running out. It is completely unavoidable.

      Exposure to the sun CAN 'speed' the process, but it would have happened anyhow.
    • dclowd9901, on 10/12/2007, -5/+7""Living forever's great, but what good is being a turtle if you can't bed Nicole Richie?"

      living forever and not once feeling the urge to bed nicole richie"

      See what I did there? I call that an "assist." I don't get the points, but I should definitely get the credit for an obvious setup.
    • Kypt, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5"The role of the sun cannot be overestimated as the most important cause of PREMATURELY aging skin (called photoaging) and skin cancers."

      Key word here is PREMATURELY...as in before its SUPPOSED to...

      Edit: goatrandy beat me to it
  • Razster, on 10/12/2007, -7/+93So if by eating the heart of the turtle, will I live forever?
    • debuggercll, on 10/12/2007, -5/+114You have to cut off it's head and wait for the lightning to get it's power.
    • mapkinase, on 10/12/2007, -10/+14@debuggercll

      That is what those turtles did to Chris Lambert career.
    • FearlessFreep, on 10/12/2007, -16/+2"That is what those turtles did to Chris Lambert career."

      Well if you've seen him in any recent movies...you know he definately can't live forever...
    • simpleid, on 10/12/2007, -10/+4let me know if it works
    • Jugalator, on 10/12/2007, -6/+27"So if by eating the heart of the turtle, will I live forever?"

      Personally I'm drinking the blood of a thousand virgins and hoping for the best.
    • captjc, on 10/12/2007, -3/+47"Personally I'm drinking the blood of a thousand virgins and hoping for the best."

      So thats why your hanging out on Digg...

      / I keed, I keed
    • Valarauka, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4Naturally. Why do you think Shredder is always wanting to dine on turtle soup?
    • cblalock, on 10/12/2007, -1/+23"Personally I'm drinking the blood of a thousand virgins and hoping for the best."

      Digg users beware.
    • jtbauki, on 10/12/2007, -5/+0"Personally I'm drinking the blood of a thousand virgins and hoping for the best."

      Personally I'm sleeping with a thousand virgins. Whether I die or not, I don't really care anymore.
    • willcode4beer, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1It comes with its own plate
  • herrshuster, on 10/12/2007, -70/+22it's overused, but yes:

    I, for one, welcome our new turtle overlords
    • drlha, on 10/12/2007, -57/+6Overused on Slashdot. This isn't Slashdot. Hence, dugg down.
    • offput, on 10/12/2007, -10/+18What I don't understand is why memes from other sites are automatically dugg down. Why is digg so scared of slashdot memes "infecting" their community that is must resort to such antagonistic behaviour?
    • captjc, on 10/12/2007, -3/+16It is just overused. It has nothing to do with the cross-pollination of memes.

      Besides, it this was /., it would be marked -1 redundant

      /besides, drlha is just being a dick
  • therobd, on 10/12/2007, -26/+10Am I the only one who saw the capitalized T in turtles and thought this was about the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles?

    Cowabunga!
    • somnus, on 10/12/2007, -9/+9Sadly, they will all one day die of cancer. Ironic that the very thing which gave them their mutant powers will be the thing that takes them away...

      Or is that a coincidence? Aw, bugger.
    • MadOtaku, on 10/12/2007, -3/+2it's irony.
    • therobd, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4People don't like Leonardo, Michelangelo, Raphael, and Donatello, I guess.
    • somnus, on 10/12/2007, -3/+1@MadOtako: You apparently missed the joke of the "irony" statement. Let me spell it out for you:

      A comment that is often made on Digg is something along the lines of "Well that's ironic" when it is, in fact, just a coincidence. Ironic that you missed a joke about irony. Oh wait, that *is* just a coincidence.
    • nepawoods, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1"A comment that is often made on Digg is something along the lines of "Well that's ironic" when it is, in fact, just a coincidence. Ironic that you missed a joke about irony. Oh wait, that *is* just a coincidence."

      While discussing the distinction between irony and coincidence, you your self confused them.

      Well, that's ironic.
  • nallelcm, on 10/12/2007, -5/+4Bah, I don't want to sign up
  • ArchieAndrews, on 10/12/2007, -5/+36Serious question. What can you die of that is considered "old age" and isn't considered a disease?
    • indulgence, on 10/12/2007, -2/+41Kidney failure due to old age... Liver failure due to old age...

      Your organs become less efficient as you grow older.
    • Paroparo, on 10/12/2007, -4/+14Heart/other organ failure I suppose. Not entirely sure. =/
    • ArchieAndrews, on 10/12/2007, -4/+12In researching this question, it seems to me that it comes down to semantics and what one considers the definition of the word "disease". I have seen some definitions that would include organ failure.
    • missflibbles, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6Organ failure could be attributed to disease or just old age.

      If you develop heart disease as a result of diet, for example, that organ is going to fail due to disease. However, if you don't develop heart disease, eventually your heart will wear out even if you have the proper diet and exercise.

    • controlguy, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4Organ failure aside, turtles would still eventually a "cell death" --- that is, the cells in their bodies would no longer divide after they run out of telomeres. When cells don't divide, they get larger and larger until they die.

      From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telomere
      Every time a cell with linear genes divides, it will lose a small piece of one of its strands of DNA. This process has been referred to by James Watson and Alexei Olovnikov as the "end replication problem."
    • mglmouser, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2The brain actually deteriorates with time so that's more an issue than failing "peripherals" like kidneys, which can be replaced.
    • goatrandy, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8@controlguy That's the point of this article. Turtles don't need telomerase to replicate cells. There is not preprogrammed 'cell death'.
    • nepawoods, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1@controlguy

      "From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telomere ..."

      Apparently that Wikipedia page has been trashed.

      ... heh - it's back, while I still have time to edit this message.
    • NinjaBoy, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2A mild fall.
    • controlguy, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1@goatrandy

      Indeed, you are right. I didn't see that in the original article. For those others that missed it:

      From http://www.ese.u-psud.fr/epc/conservation/Publi/abstractr/AE_CHA99a.pdf

      "Turtles exhibit approximately the same longevity as humans. However, senescence, which is a major characteristic of mammals ageing, has not been clearly demonstrated in these species nor in other Reptiles. We have checked if the telomere length reduction observed in humans during ageing and being one of the causes of mammalian senescence is also observed in the European freshwater turtles. No difference in telomere length is observed between genomic DNA of embryos and adults of this species."

      Hence, probably no cell death.
  • HP844182, on 10/12/2007, -18/+3"In fact, if turtles didn’t get eaten, crushed by an automobile or fall prey to a disease, he said, they might just live indefinitely."

    Hmm...I assume that if you didn't get eating, ran over, get a terminal disease, and your bodily organs didn't crapping out, we'd probably live forever too.

    Something's gotta kill ya.
    • 98acura, on 10/12/2007, -1/+13if you read the article, you would see that it says turtles organs, dont break down or show any signs of aging..
    • ardenr, on 10/12/2007, -3/+4The point you missed was that turtle organs don't crap out (apart from their butt organ :P ). This is why i want a turtle autopsy on the one Darwin might have brought back, TFA dooesn't say how it died.
    • Poco, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4What? Harriet is dead? I had no idea. I was just at the Australia Zoo last year and saw her. Perhaps her brain saw that Steve Irwin was going to die and then sent a signal back in time to her heart and she died of shock (I read too much Digg)?
    • alternative724, on 10/12/2007, -5/+1ardener
      dugg down for "butt organ"
      i did laugh though
  • fleury29, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5"Serious question. What can you die of that is considered "old age" and isn't considered a disease?"
    -ArchieAndrews

    Deterioration of cells over time...that sorta thing. Anything that pretty much has to do with time. You heart just stops, not because of disease, but because of cell deterioration. Not saying that you cant die of heart disease. If I'm not mistaken, that's just off the top of my head. I could be completely wrong...so no need to flame me if I am wrong.

    "Hmm...I assume that if you didn't get eating, ran over, get a terminal disease, and your bodily organs didn't crapping out, we'd probably live forever too."
    -HP844182

    lol no kidding. Its not a question of why tho. Its a question how.
    • missflibbles, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2We just crap out. After a while, the number of cells dying exceeds the number of cells being created. On top of that, more and more of the cells that are created will have problems. They won't do what they're supposed to, or they won't do it as well as they should. If we could stop that, we could stop aging.
    • FearlessFreep, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3" They won't do what they're supposed to, or they won't do it as well as they should. If we could stop that, we could stop aging."

      Sounds like my kids
  • keysersoze1234, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6If memory serves, the turtles would actually have to have a special process for repairing DNA if they really can live indefinitely.

    You see, whenever your cells replicate, there is telomere degradation.. in effect you lose a little bit of code on the ends. Now, the DNA has a built in buffer region, so it does fine. However, the more times you replicate, the more chances you have of an error, which leads to cancer. Even if you kept a human in a perfect environment on a perfect diet with no danger/mutagens/etc, it would still develop cancer eventually.
    • aywwts4, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3Yes, dieing of "old age" is just widespread cellular death. You may not be dead yet, but large parts of your body are already going.

      After replicating too many times cells just run out of telemerase and get culled. with no new healthy cells to replace it, well... Its pretty obvious what happens.
    • FearlessFreep, on 10/12/2007, -3/+12So we're basically shareware....
    • mynameistim, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3Yes, dieing of "old age" is just widespread cellular death. You may not be dead yet, but large parts of your body are already going.

      ----

      I didn't think that "dying of old age" actually existed anymore. they just have specific names for the 40 or so things that used to be called "dying of old age"
    • EricAnderton, on 10/12/2007, -1/+17@fearless: More accurately, we're all crippleware.

      [You have 9,454,567,896,342,981 cellular copies left until your license expires.]
    • gravylookout, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7Don't starfish live forever too? Technically they reproduce by splitting into two clones of eachother but wouldn't one be the parent and the other the child? If it has the same DNA is it still the same starfish?
    • somnus, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6Nice, Gravylookout just posed a fantastic philosophical question which applies directly to cloning: If you're looking at another lifeform that is you down to the cell, is it you?
    • ricree, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4@somnus
      "If you're looking at another lifeform that is you down to the cell, is it you?"

      No, that situation already exists in the form of identical twins. And since we don't consider them one person, I see no reason that we would in the case of cloning.
    • ub3rgeek, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3no, think about identical twins. They are still two people but have the exact same DNA

      edit - wow i really need to start refreshing before i submit :(
  • EochaidRiata, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6Anyone interested in aging should watch the presentation by Aubrey de Grey from TED-EU 2005.

    Scroll down to "October 2, 2006: Might you live a great deal longer?"

    http://www.ted.com/tedtalks/index.cfm?flashEnabled=1
  • dongiaconia, on 10/12/2007, -1/+14Duh, anyone that has seen the Neverending Story already knows this. Sheesh.
    • zephc, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6Yeah, but we don't event care. In fact, we don't even care whether or not we care.

      Apathetic turtles ftw!
    • FinalSolution, on 10/12/2007, -10/+1Dugg down for using "ftw". It's no longer 2004.
    • molochi, on 10/12/2007, -3/+2And dugg down for using the ancient "It's no longer (year)" meme.
  • Rival7, on 10/12/2007, -7/+2Hence the new movie!!!

    http://www.apple.com/trailers/wb/teenagemutantninjaturtles/
  • howismydriving, on 10/12/2007, -2/+16They have to live forever! Its turtles all the way down!
  • dosle, on 10/12/2007, -4/+5"Tonight I dine on turtle soup..."
  • withincontext, on 10/12/2007, -5/+18Arrogant turtles. Let's bomb their country!
    • captjc, on 10/12/2007, -6/+2Hey Ronald Dumbsfeld, bombing is NOT the answer!

      /Death-rays on a moonbase (or satellites) is where it's at.
      //Bombs are SO passe.
  • rubicante, on 10/12/2007, -35/+4Did you know that if you cut off a turtles head your can ***** the hole in their neck and it feels just like a vagina?
    • Jugalator, on 10/12/2007, -2/+13I'm sorry to hear you had to discover sex that way.
    • nepawoods, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2They're cold blooded animals. Turtles, that is. Try a woman some time. Then again, for the sake of womankind, don't.

    • LustHog, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2Yeah dude, what is wrong with you, that is just weird man
    • hplasm, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1That would probably kill them, alright..
  • Jugalator, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2I'm not sure about this; an eternity is known as an awfully long time...
  • thebeltwymonstr, on 10/12/2007, -5/+24After 250 years, does the human study the tortoise, or does the tortoise study the human?
  • jon1012, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1Tortue ninja ! Tortue ninjaaaaa...
  • DrScott, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5Turtles live as long as I say they can.
    http://www.exoticmeats.com/store/index.php?cPath=24_59&osCsid=80aced3cd8b477cfa2eb364b0dc48f7d
  • TheGunBlade, on 10/12/2007, -7/+1That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard. That argument can be true to all species! Even Humans!
    • EmmSee, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5What are you talking about? The article says the organs of the turtles are different and do not break down over time. So you CAN NOT say the same thing about humans.
  • Bossy, on 10/12/2007, -3/+0nuts I tell you.

    From all I this, I can draw one conclusion: We want to live forever. But then again, that would destroy the sole purpose of living.... exisitng.
  • maldog, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4did anyone see the picture of the snakehead turtle?? I'm freaked out
  • red40, on 10/12/2007, -6/+0kinda dumb. humans don't die of old age anymore either. they haven't since like the 70's when the government said no... you have to die of something.. start doing autopsies. if humans didn't die of diseases and stuff. we'd live forever too.. silly
    • nepawoods, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1"if humans didn't die of diseases and stuff. we'd live forever too.. silly"

      but we do die of diseases and stuff, and the older you are, the more likely it becomes. so it's not silly. silly is thinking something changed because the government said so.
  • SuperNick, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2The United States government stopped allow "old age" being a cause of death in the 1950s. They no longer put that on death certificates, now actual reasons have to be given.
    • nepawoods, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2Those reasons are more likely to happen soon to an older person than a younger person.
  • sporefrog, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4"kinda dumb. humans don't die of old age anymore either. they haven't since like the 70's when the government said no... you have to die of something.. start doing autopsies. if humans didn't die of diseases and stuff. we'd live forever too.. silly"

    Oh absolutely, that's why average mortality rate increases /exponentially/ as humans grow older. Clearly age has no affect on human death rate, or we'd see some sort of pattern where more humans die more often at older ages. Just like turtles, see? Oh wait, NO THEY DON'T!

    Becoming more susceptible to disease, cancer, and other methods of death are a result of the decay of our bodily processes and cells >.>
    • yoink23, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0So does that mean there are turtles out there that have been around XXXX years?
      If their mortality rate is more or less constant over time, seems logical that some turtle out there has been defying the odds all these years? (If this is in the article....... yea)
  • DoodlesMcPooh, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2After all everyone knows turtles are like good wines they always taste better with age.
  • daxsymbiont, on 10/12/2007, -4/+2bury
  • banglogic, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3FTA: "Scavenger turtles that live in the Ganges River devour human remains, making it possible for devout Hindus to deposit their loved ones’ remains in the waters they deem sacred."

    Well, that's just a little disturbing.
  • liuite, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3moral of the story; move slow and live longer...if you don't get eaten or mangled along the way
  • eleventybillion, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1FTA: "...and you can’t dislike or distrust the clumsy.”

    Point of fact, I both dislike AND distrust Steve Wynn.
  • CobolNoFun, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2So nature's D student found a way to live forever. good for them
  • memoriesofgreen, on 10/12/2007, -3/+1what a load of turtle dung;

    http://digg.com/general_sciences/Charles_Darwin_s_tortoise_dies

    http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=darwin+turtle+died
  • tortan, on 10/12/2007, -3/+2I guess slow and study really does win the race.
  • jiggawoot, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0"In Australia, by contrast, the word tortoise often applies to aquatic side-necked species — bizarre beasts with necks that cannot be drawn into the shell for protection but instead must be tucked on the side, under the shell’s eavelike overhang."

    Where they say "often applies" here, they actually mean "never applies".

    In Australia, if it (mostly) lives in the water, we call it a turtle. If it (mostly) lives on land, we call it a tortoise. And they're all terrapins. Mostly.
    • Karmalary, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1Just like all bugs are insects, but not all insects are bugs? Mostly.
  • saturn639, on 10/12/2007, -3/+0Gee, if I didn't die of disease, I'd live forever too.
    • nepawoods, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1No, eventually you'd drown in your own wrinkles. That's not a disease. That's really old age.
  • Flashman, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1Duh, if turtles died from old age, then how did the Discworld last so long?
  • AceTracer, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1The same is true for certain types of fish. They lack the gene that causes aging.
    • Ezku, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I was just reading Alastair Reynolds' Chasm City, where it said that koi are the same. In the book they were used to genetically engineer humans with manyfold timespans – whether that's what will eventually result in real life remains to be seen, but I for one am somewhat of a pessimist: it's probably not going to be in our lifetimes.
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