What is Digg?27 Comments
- Berkana, on 04/04/2008, -0/+10I'm not saying this to be anti-alternative energy (I'm a huge proponent of renewable energy), but in all honesty, hydrogen is the wrong way to go about this: if it is extracted by electrolyzing water, it uses more energy than it provides, and if it is stripped off of hydrocarbons, we're still dependent on foreign oil, but losing more than half the energy in the process of extracting the hydrogen and compressing it for transport. Hydrogen fuel cells and things powered by them are essentially electrical vehicles, but hydrogen is an extremely lousy battery. I won't re-summarize why here; everyone who thinks hydrogen is a good idea needs to see some counterpoints:
Why a hydrogen economy doesn't make sense
http://www.physorg.com/news85074285.html - chanop, on 04/04/2008, -0/+5Hydrogen isn't there yet. The majority of Hydrogen producers still use fossil fuels to make the the hydrogen. So in reality, we're not making any progress with it yet.
- DeskFlyer, on 04/04/2008, -1/+4Here's the press release from Boeing (has some more details about the aircraft used and the flight itself): http://boeing.com/news/releases/2008/q2/080403a_nr ...
- louiebaur, on 04/04/2008, -1/+4Thats pretty cool looks like Boeing is off to a good start
- loquax, on 04/04/2008, -0/+2Really, what they are talking about here is about the economic model we should use in evaluation of hydrogen as a electron transportation device. While I agree that hydrogen isn't perfect, I'd much rather deal with the repercussions of an inefficient (but clean) electron transport than the inefficient, carbon laden monstrosity we have today.
Some of this is also a complaint about the current state of hydrogen generation. We could alleviate some of this as time goes by when newer technologies for generating hydrogen come to light. I can't help but think that sometime soon we will find ways to get microbes to generate lots of hydrogen (or near hydrogen products that can be stored and utilized better).
That being said, I agree with not using the "hydrogen economy" semantics and going with the "electron economy" term. It keeps us focused on the real product needed and not a pre-assumed solution. - sammydeath, on 04/04/2008, -0/+2over the top hippies rejoice!
- hollyminkowski, on 04/04/2008, -0/+1I bet this plane is very quiet.
In most small planes it is so noisy you can barely hold a conversation. - Exhibitionist, on 04/04/2008, -0/+1Nice bit of PR for Boeing right there. Well done.
- priegog, on 04/04/2008, -0/+1Ok, here are a couple of links:
http://www.treehugger.com/files/2007/08/water_sunl ...
http://www.nrel.gov/news/press/1998/14scienc.html
http://www.sciencenews.org/articles/20000916/fob6. ...
But there's plenty more out there... - priegog, on 04/04/2008, -0/+1For the present moment, you are absolutely right, but the thing about hydrogen-powered anything... Is to develop the technology for when we can obtain hydrogen more efficiently. And the ways of doing so are already being researched... Specifically, here on digg we've seen research being made into converting sunlight to hydrogen (using water obviously), via a process very similar to photosynthesis. I'm pretty sure I've also read the same thing but using some weird synthetic enzymes... If I come up with the research I'll post it in a reply.
- Observer001, on 04/04/2008, -0/+1Nice going, Boeing! Way to utilise the renewability of electrolysis-separated hydrogen, but also enjoy the oomph of the fact that it combusts! Many people forget or never knew that their vehicles are powered by explosions.
- inactive, on 04/07/2008, -0/+1Though it is a token effort, the nay sayers will try and bury the success of this flight. They will say it is a non-starter and can never ever be pursued as a viable alternative to oil.
- loudmouth11, on 04/04/2008, -0/+1Good for them
- ravensncrows, on 04/04/2008, -0/+1why cant other companies be like these? why cant they fight for customers' money by improving their products instead of lying their way into their wallets?
- mjklaser, on 04/04/2008, -0/+1This is a great article, but what has happened to respectable journalism in this country? The author doesn't know the correct usage of plurals or 'than vs. then' (i.e., should be 'reduce' not 'reduces', and should be 'than', not 'then'). Take a look: "Boeing's first new model in over a decade, the Dreamliner, used high-tech composites which reduces its weight and which the company says will make it consume 20 percent less fuel then similar-sized planes already on the market."
- trollick, on 04/04/2008, -0/+1This is great because we just discovered huge deposits of free hydrogen. We did, right?
- timhoward, on 06/13/2009, -0/+1Great. Now we just need to find a way to make Hydrogen without using fossil fuels...
- BESTenemy, on 04/04/2008, -0/+1Thanks for posting the link.
Hydrogen economy is just a series of additional conversion steps on top as an alternative to already existing more efficient electrochemical system.
The reason for pursuit of hydrogen economy is simple - refusal of the current fuel suppliers to adjust to new ways of doing things. It's about forcing the customer to go to the pump and get hydrogen instead of gasoline, while keeping everything else exactly the same. Inefficiencies to them do not matter cause it is the customer that is going to absorb the costs anyway. - linagee, on 04/04/2008, -0/+1Airplane fuel is so expensive and consumed so fast, I'm happy at ANY alternative they find. (It's typically $1.50 or more above standard gasoline. [$5/gal would not be so insane to find.] Most planes typically get less than 15MPG as an equivalent. The advantage to flying of course is the faster speed / nonstop travel.)
- sponeil, on 04/04/2008, -0/+0FTA: The director of the Ocana research centre, Francisco Escarti, said the hydrogen battery "could be the main source of energy for a small plane" but would likely not become the "primary soruce of energy for big passenger planes".
They didn't say whether this was due to the thrust/weight ratio of the fuel vs. the battery or due to the differences between jet engines and props. Any aerospace engineers out there that can answer that?` - justjoehere, on 04/04/2008, -0/+0The pursuit of innovation is often started with the achievable inefficient first prototypes. Design improvements, additional innovation typically overcomes obstacles or uncovers a better way of doing something. America is still the country of innovation and we should support those trying to innovate. If we stop innovating we have nothing else to offer the rest of the world and would quickly degenerate into a third world country; we import more than we make (except food). Innovation is key to our survival.
- justjoehere, on 04/04/2008, -0/+0"Solar and wind (maybe nuclear) energy can easily be used to make hydrogen...and then its all free technically." A closed system is never free, if it was it would be perpetual, and nothing is perpetual.
It's not free. It takes more energy to split water into Hydrogen and Oxygen than you get from either the combustion of Hydrogen or the recombining of Hydrogen and Oxygen as in a Fuel Cell. - baramunchies, on 04/04/2008, -2/+2nice, but battery powered planes are nothing new.
german company got one on the market already
http://www.lange-flugzeugbau.com/htm/english/produ ... - nesibus, on 04/04/2008, -1/+1Great....now we get the "hydrogen bashing" group of people who think the only way to make it is to use energy from the power company. Their battery ideas are not that great either, batteries are a huge waste just cause of the disposal and short life alone.
Solar and wind (maybe nuclear) energy can easily be used to make hydrogen...and then its all free technically.
There was an article on here not long about about a place using nothing but solar to make steam.
Why not tap into a volcanic areas and use the naturally ridiculous hot place as a source of energy to make steam for power.
But I guess people who cannot see past the energy plant that uses a dying source for energy...to understand something like hydrogen. - brianara3, on 04/04/2008, -0/+0I think the correct term is... I takes more power to produce than it provides. You can have a hydrogen powered extraction plant.. but it will use all of its product and more just to run.
- Steinr, on 04/04/2008, -1/+1I think Hydrogen fuel is the future for all transportation needs. So this makes sense, what I did not realize is that they were already so far advanced for avionic usage.
The picture in this dig submission is a bit misleading as to the type of aircraft used in the test. - atact88, on 04/04/2008, -2/+0It still takes fossil fuels to manufacture hydrogen in this day and age. Good marketing, though.
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