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74 Comments
- TerriSchiavo, on 04/19/2008, -2/+59*****, Babelfish can't even do my Spanish homework, much less talk with aliens.
- rob3, on 04/19/2008, -2/+23what a completely un-founded and purely speculative article that is. Buried
- PurpleSfinx, on 04/19/2008, -0/+18Article:
""In Carl Sagan’s book Contact, aliens communicate to humans through prime numbers," says Deacon. "Why? Nature doesn't use prime numbers.""
Wikipedia:
"One example of the use of prime numbers in nature is as an evolutionary strategy used by cicadas of the genus Magicicada.[18] These insects spend most of their lives as grubs underground. They only pupate and then emerge from their burrows after 13 or 17 years, at which point they fly about, breed, and then die after a few weeks at most. The logic for this is believed to be that the prime number intervals between emergences makes it very difficult for predators to evolve that could specialise as predators on Magicicadas.[19] If Magicicadas appeared at a non-prime number intervals, say every 12 years, then predators appearing every 2, 3, 4, 6, or 12 years would be sure to meet them. Over a 200-year period, average predator populations during hypothetical outbreaks of 14- and 15-year cicadas would be up to 2% higher than during outbreaks of 13- and 17-year cicadas.[20] Though small, this advantage appears to have been enough to drive natural selection in favour of a prime-numbered life-cycle for these insects." - Wikipedia.
I put it to you that nature does use prime numbers in ways we don't know. - inactive, on 04/19/2008, -1/+17Can Babelfish translate whales or birds language? No. Then give me a break with your E.T. translator. And this is assuming the space aliens will be shaped similar to humans, landing in a flying saucer. They might as well be in the form of bacterias brought here on earth by solar winds or some ***** for all we know.
- mdaize, on 04/19/2008, -3/+16pfft.... language? You just need a trail of Reese's Pieces...
- Netrilix, on 04/19/2008, -1/+13Sound? The babelfish works entirely on brain waves, doesn't it? I was under the assumption that it was so wonderful that it could not have evolved by chance because it wasn't simply a translation of sound. It actually conveyed the original meaning straight to the brain without needing to translate.
/Douglas Adams - wolphcry, on 04/19/2008, -5/+15We are assuming that E.T. would communicate with sound. Math is the only true universal "language".
- zachshmack, on 04/19/2008, -0/+10Then it's a good thing the aliens from Independence Day use TCP/IP.
- TobiasParker, on 04/19/2008, -0/+7How were they similar at all, other than that they contained Aliens?
- inactive, on 04/19/2008, -0/+7You can't even make a decent translator of known languages.
Babelfish french to english translation:
Je suis en retard pour mon rendez-vous (I am late for my appointment)
Babelfish: "I am late for my go" - Upon66, on 04/19/2008, -0/+6Now E.T.'s home phone calls can be tapped.
- MacEnvy, on 04/19/2008, -0/+6This whole article is just speculation by a man who spends his life studying humans ... never trust an anthropologist who claims to know something about extraterrestrial morphology and communications methods.
This guy's just a hack who thinks, for some reason, that intelligent life developing on another planet would be even remotely similar to us. Anyone who has studied speculative astrobiology knows that there's NO evidence for these claims. - inactive, on 04/19/2008, -0/+5That makes Babelfish better than the 'penis fish' that will swim up your wee wee: http://www.bofads.com/stories/candiru.htm
- TheRealM3D, on 04/19/2008, -1/+6Even if math is a universal "language," we would first have to decipher how it is represented by the aliens we came into contact with. There are other ways to communicate than sound and writing. If they communicated by changing the color and density of their skin and transmitted data to one another via plates that mimicked their skin-speak, then we'd still have to translate their "language" before we ever got around to using that "universal language" of mathematics to talk. People assume that space and alien life is going to be just like Star Trek, when the reality is that if we find life out there, its probably not likely to be much like us at all.
- DeathRay2K, on 04/19/2008, -0/+4What about dolphins? They are generally accepted to have a true (albeit simple) language.
- smoothmedia, on 04/19/2008, -0/+3So does this mean we will finally be able to understand Vogon?
- mrhaines, on 04/19/2008, -0/+3These "scientists" obviously watch too much Star Trek. The chances of alien life evolving into a humanoid like life form is almost zilch. Most likely any alien life we encounter will be in the form of a thin film covering rocks in a pond on some planet which communicate through the secretion of hormones or something random like that.
- Netrilix, on 04/19/2008, -0/+3Well, to have creatures that don't follow our physical laws, they'd have to be from another universe. And if they've managed to succeed in crossing between two universes, I'm perfectly willing to leave it up to them to crack the communication barrier.
- supreme0armor, on 04/19/2008, -0/+3you should stop watching movies that reinforce alien stereotypes...
it is possible that there are "good" aliens...
or both... - notoneofus, on 04/19/2008, -0/+3Nak-nak-naaaak. Do not run, we are your friends.
- jeffinfremont, on 04/19/2008, -0/+2I'm doing my best to comprehend how any intelligent life form would fail to understand that 1+1=2. They might use different symbols, but the equation would be the same.
- inactive, on 04/19/2008, -1/+3Plus think about all the people they'd have to first meet and have experience with humans would be -- military and hardcore but socially awkward biologists and physicists... yuck! I certainly hope they have ET ambassadors on deck to keep the aliens awake!
- tb0r, on 04/19/2008, -0/+2It will fail if the language is based in metaphor...according to star trek.
Darmok and Jalad at Tanagra. - inactive, on 04/19/2008, -0/+2How do we know that they have no language? because we can't translate it?
seems like somewhat circular reasoning to me.
Chimpanzees have been taught sign language, and have been shown to possess enough master of grammar and vocabulary to invent new phrases, use, extend and extrapolate grammatical rules flexibly, and invent new compound words, and even go on to teach these learned sign-symbols and phrases to other chimps. Clearly the capacity is there; why is is so far-fetched to believe that there are rudiments of language already existent in chimpanzees and other animals possessing higher cognition skills? - scy1192, on 04/19/2008, -0/+2http://babelfish.altavista.com/
- jeffinfremont, on 04/19/2008, -0/+2Neither the Xenomorph (Alien) or Predator have any realistic shot of existing anywhere beyond the silver screen.
- novenator, on 04/19/2008, -0/+2I agree. Squid communicate by rapidly changing color patterns on their sides in the sea (like a chameleon on steroids). Other animals also communicate by smells, body movements, etc. It is an arrogance found in our species to believe that we are the only ones with "language".
- RoflZone, on 04/19/2008, -0/+2Only expressing emotions would not be an actual language. Insects can do that (fear, etc...) and we dont say they use a language.
- KegBol, on 04/19/2008, -0/+1To be honest, I was kind of hoping that our new alien overlords would bring this sort of gadget with them.
- frikko, on 04/21/2008, -0/+1What about communicating with animals first, then start to think about the E.Ts?
- ParanoydAndroid, on 04/19/2008, -0/+1Most mathematicians (that I know, or of whom I've heard) are platonic idealists. That is to say, the forms we apprehend in the physical universe may be imperfect creations of our own perception, but the forms _themselves_ are perfect and have a universal existence. Therefore, no matter the different perceptions of alien creatures, they still reference the same universal forms in their mathematics.
Also, the statement of the author that primes do not occur in nature, irks me. First, Math itself is nature, since prime numbers occur in math, they occur in nature, but beyond that prime numbers themselves turn up all the time in growth patterns of leaves, spirals, and life-cycles of certain insects. - ladyarcher85, on 04/19/2008, -0/+1Great! I can now use something to help me understand men.
- novenator, on 04/19/2008, -0/+1Though a highly developed algorithm might be possible for a universal translator, this is still a LONG ways off. Babelfish rocks, and I use it regularly, but you have to take its translations with a grain of salt (as noted by some above). And that is just between somewhat similar human languages from the same tree (ie. usually Indo-European).
The next logical step for potential alien translations would be to start to deceipher the communication patterns of other species on our planet. As prev. mentioned, whalesong and bird calls to name a couple. Animals communicate in many strange and complex ways however, such as squid by rapidly changing colored patterns on their sides, some animals with smell and pheremones, others by simple body movements (hey, we got sign language in our own species too). Once a system has been devised for these, maybe, just maybe something could be created for more alien communications. - travis1982, on 04/19/2008, -0/+1yea right...life out there is guaranteed just a big blob of micro organisms, some sort of vegetation, or some sort of crazy insect. I think insect are aliens anyways...you ever look up close at an emperor scorpion? What the ***** is that thing!
- travis1982, on 04/19/2008, -0/+1maybe they will be like rock monster dweller things that can live for thousands of years and live miles below the surface...like in the old star trek.
- Rupes, on 04/19/2008, -0/+1babelfish can barely translate languages from earth how the ***** is it going to do that
- rodrigo74, on 04/19/2008, -0/+1He should read some Olad Stapledon books to start to understand how completely weird and incomprehensible alien life can be..
- bullox, on 04/19/2008, -1/+2So again, why can we not communicate via the lowest common denominator here? You didn't really answer anything.
- inactive, on 04/19/2008, -2/+3I would settle for a Bush translator, so that America could stop invading the wrong country!
Example:
Iraq has weapons of mass destruction, America needs to invade.
Translated:
America needs a monopoly on oil, so it is necessary to invade Iraq. - inactive, on 04/19/2008, -0/+1we had to be TAUGHT the language as well. What does that make humans' "normal" way of communication in that case?
regardless as to the terms you use to describe "non-language communication"; the basic problem of translating meaning exists aside from the tautology. The communication of whales or cuttlefish (to take two examples) is very poorly understood, regardless of whether you call it a "language" or not. - inactive, on 04/19/2008, -0/+1okay, so what about ingsoc? that could happen anywhere
- inactive, on 04/19/2008, -0/+1a lot of stuff was similar... The CIA/military knew there were aliens or alien technologies but didn't tell anyone, the star ships were ancient and had strange glyphs all over them, the alien ra and the aliens looked pretty simliar and sort of "inhabited" other biotics (i think they had bio-engineered suits in ID4 and in SG it inhabited the egyptian boy -- and no, not that gay snake crap from the tv show, it was a little alien thing), the original music sounded pretty much the same, and it just seemed similar
- FLUX, on 04/19/2008, -2/+3we can even translate dolphin or whale communication how are we going to translate a truly alien language
- Muncher, on 04/19/2008, -0/+1And this is how Interstellar War I will start.
- Kindjal, on 04/19/2008, -1/+2Language does not have to be logic or structured it could be based on transmitting emotions and would be rather random if so. Buried for speculative nonsense that everything has to be structured and logical.
- inactive, on 04/20/2008, -0/+1So I guess Hebrew is beyond alien then......
- inactive, on 04/19/2008, -0/+1where do you draw the line between communication and language?
- HSaraiva, on 04/19/2008, -0/+1I'm not a linguist, but I'd say it has to do with grammar. (Which is funny, since some of us humans can't grasp it either.)
It's a good question, and important at that, I wouldn't know how to answer it. - inactive, on 04/19/2008, -0/+1Sukat, his eyes uncovered !!
- jblifestyles, on 04/22/2008, -0/+1thats like saying any intelligent life form would be able to understand what we are saying if they can interpret our symbols... of course.
allow me to paraphrase your statement:
I'm doing my best to comprehend how any intelligent life form would fail to understand "we won't hurt you". They might use different sounds, symbols, or methods of conveying it, but the message would be the same. -
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