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- scout29c, on 10/10/2007, -71/+124If they didn’t want Hiroshima bomb, they shouldn’t have bomb Pear Harbor.
Hiroshima would never have been the target of the first atomic bomb had there been no Pearl Harbor. Had America not been dragged into WWII, the bomb might never have been developed -- at least during the war. The Germans had made a big theoretical error in their initial development of the bomb -- which the Americans did not make because of the help of scientist who happen to be Jews that had fled Germany’s persecution.
War is an open ended equation. That was true in 1941 when the Japanese bomb Pear Harbor and it’s still true today. Look at Iraq. Name one war that lasted more than a year that ended anyway near what those that started it thought it would. Never go to war unless you have no other choice.
Why do the Japanese bemoan the bombing of Hiroshima and not one comment of their own arrogance in bombing Pear Harbor? - MonsterChaOS, on 10/10/2007, -5/+53Nagasaki?
- norcal311, on 10/10/2007, -11/+48I have been to the museum in Japan twice now. Each time I stand there and just get pissed off. Not at the fact we bombed them, but at how the museum makes every country who owns even 1 nuclear bomb out to be villainous and evil, as well as calling the theory of a nuclear stalemate ludicrous. The museum is an amazing documentation of why nuclear weapons should never be detonated on life again, but as you walk through the time line in the Hiroshima museum of the happenings of world war 2, it's interesting to see that Pearl Harbor isn't even mentioned, like it never happened. Apparently it wasn't an event significant enough to comment on, which makes the United States appear to have gone to war with Japan for no reason but to flex their muscles at a tiny island.
I would recommend that anyone who visits Japan go to the museum. It's going to make you ill to your stomach what humanity is capable of, just try not to laugh out loud in front of Japanese tourists at the videos they run every 5 minutes showing how the evil United States "bombed Japan to end the war, a theory produced by United States American politicians and propagandists to persuade the world to believe their action justified."
Looks like it ended the war to me. - bigpeeler, on 10/10/2007, -7/+43I ate sushi last night and burned my mouth on the Wasabi. Life's a circle.
- mjduell, on 10/10/2007, -9/+42Do any of you idiots actually read about history, or just make up this ***** as you go along? How many U.S. service men died protecting this country from the Japanese? If the Japanese had the bomb at that time they would have used it, so would the Germans. Don't give me that bull about civilians; guess who was building the munitions that were supplying the Japanese war machine? Why should we have sacrificed more of our men when we could drop a bomb and end the war? This new age retro-rewrite of history is a joke. Why don't you ask the 170,000 Chinese who the Japanese infected with Cholera or the 65,000 men who died building the Burmese road, just to name a few, how they feel about the U.S. dropping the bomb on Japan. You liberal, P.C. people should stop believing in fairy tails and start understanding that it takes two sides to bring about something like the use of the bomb.
- hd95, on 10/10/2007, -7/+40More died in the bombing of Dresden and our other bombing campaigns of Japan.
War is terrible thing. We didn't start that one but we finished it. - mjduell, on 10/10/2007, -15/+46DiggsOnlyJew had this comment above, says it all:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_war_crimes#The_crimes
That should be the end of this arguement. - Error601, on 10/10/2007, -14/+45Snicker. There's Perl Harbor "truther" dumbasses too.
- cusoman, on 10/10/2007, -3/+33Is there any war that someone does NOT have a black flag conspiracy theory on?
- DiggsOnlyJew, on 10/10/2007, -7/+37Not only this... but Japan still didn't surrender, at least unanimously, until after the second bomb was dropped. Historians view the bombs as bringing an abrupt ending to the war, saving the lives and preventing the torture of millions of citizens of Asia. Anyone who says the dropping of the A-bomb is the cruelist of all acts clearly has not known anyone who served against Axis powers during the war, just because 70K people died in minutes does not make it more cruel than the torture, rape, murder and enslavement of millions.
- Apokalyps2547, on 10/10/2007, -14/+41At Iwo Jima, Japan showed us what they were willing to do. Kill. Keep killing. No surrender, no mercy, live to kill.
Japan would never surrender unless they were convinced we had a will as strong as theirs. We had the will to unleash, with a single weapon, more firepower than had ever been used in the entire history of warfare.
Also consider that the Soviets were rolling east from Europe to take as much of Manchuria and Japan as possible.
The war had to end. An unambiguous message had to be sent: enough!
Tragic? Absolutely. Wrong? I'm not sure. - mookiemookie, on 10/10/2007, -1/+27Here's a photo from the National War Museum in Tokyo showing some of this bias. It says that the U.S. "forced" Japan into war.
http://www.gnuyen.org/images/blog/slanted.jpg - jjb123, on 10/10/2007, -8/+33Agreed, also, how many millions would have died if we had to invade Japanese main land? They would have fought to the death, including civilians. They had been brain washed, on some of the islands we went into the Japanese women would throw their children off cliffs and jump after them because they were brainwashed the believe the Allies were pure evil.
- Wargalas, on 10/10/2007, -4/+29Proportionality isn't something you conduct in war. You fight to win, that's it. Otherwise, war will go on forever in tit for tat reprisals.
- gnick, on 10/10/2007, -5/+29I live and work in Los Alamos, NM (where the bombs were developed during the Manhattan project for anyone who doesn't know.) Over the weekend, we were invaded by a great many ignorant protesters. There are very few good reasons to go to war but, when you find yourself in a war, you either fight to win, you lose, or you fight forever. Ending WWII by dropping those nukes was one of the finest military moves the US has ever pulled and, despite the many civilians that were killed in the blasts and aftermath, there's no way to figure out how many lives were saved.
Still, in blksnake's defense, it would be great if the world kept itself sorted well enough that we never have to drop another. - UlicBelouve, on 10/10/2007, -4/+27What is oft overlooked is how this even was the dawn to the Cold War, and how it made the Cold War significantly more bloodless than it could have been. This really wasn't about Japan. Japan had made clear that they could not fight a two-front war once Russia entered the fray.
Russia's declaration of war was imminent, and I believe they did declare war on the 9th or 10th, at which point, Japan would likely have surrendered (as documentation shows they would have). The US, simply, didn't want to give Russia the privilege of ending the war. So we dropped our nukes, to tell the Russians to back the hell off, and to also show that we can and will use nuclear weapons.
This precedent lead to a lot of credibility during the Cold War. I strongly believe the Cold War would have been much worse if we did not have this precedent. These nukes were a message to Russia, not to Japan. If winning against Japan was the goal, as your history books would have you believe, then we would just need to have waited a week for Russia to make its declaration of war. It wasn't a "Nuke vs Invade" decision, it was a "Do we want to let the Russians end this and stake claim to Japan and company?"
Taken in this context, its a difficult decision to mull over. One cannot measure the number of lives that DID NOT perish because of the actions here. But it's hard to come to any justification for their use, but there would be a logical reason, if very hard to swallow. - DiggsOnlyJew, on 10/10/2007, -3/+26http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_war_crimes#The_crimes
- RockStrongo1, on 10/10/2007, -11/+33Are you telling me that the Japanese wouldn't have used it on the USA if they had developed the technology first? Crazy talk! I think we were justified in using it, and it brought a swift end to a war we didn't ask for in the first place.
- Error601, on 10/10/2007, -7/+28Get history book, open history book, read history book.
- radio1mike, on 10/10/2007, -8/+29Ahh. yes.
The 'evil' Americans dropped the Big One(s), ended the war and rehabbed Japan from backwater-feudal state to capitalist-economic powerhouse it is today. All major powers were developing atomic tech. Japan and Germany both had plans for long-range bombers to bomb major cities in the US along both coasts. There are always tears for Japan, why not for Russian victims of German bombing of Leningrad. Why not for the Allied bombing in Berlin or Dussledorf?
We can only speculate how many Japanese 'civilians' and American servicemen would have died if there was going to be a land invasion. I also use civilians in quotations because, Emperor Hirohito himself considered all citizens of Japan as combatants against the American land invasion, if there was one. - boredsam, on 10/10/2007, -14/+35Buried as 60 years old.
- mookiemookie, on 10/10/2007, -7/+28If that makes you feel ashamed to be an American then perhaps you don't know much about the subject at hand.
- bluto36, on 10/10/2007, -16/+36That Damn Bush! Bush and Cheney And Rove Planned Pearl Harbor. When will we learn?
/how much did Haliburton Profit from rebuilding Hiroshima? - johnj21, on 10/10/2007, -5/+25War is not won through accords or peace talks or diplomacy. War is won by completely destroying the enemy's will to continue fighting
- Error601, on 10/10/2007, -10/+28Because the Japanese military just stopped and became botanist after Pearl Harbor?
- DiggsOnlyJew, on 10/10/2007, -5/+23Is this how you view WW2?
Day 1: Pearl Harbor attacked.
Day 2: Japan nuked. - jason469, on 10/10/2007, -5/+21Rhode Island is the only state that still celebrates Victory Over Japan day. Ah, no work that day makes me a happy boy. :)
- Sirocco, on 10/10/2007, -5/+21Some people bitch about the US dropping two bombs but never stop to mention that they have never done so in the decades that followed.
- inactive, on 10/10/2007, -3/+18Yes, because there was no other type of response that they could have used. Attacking the naval base of a (at-that-time) neutral nation. Perfect sense. Dumbass.
The USA was perfectly willing to stay out of WW2 but if you poke a beehive, expect to get stung. - cusoman, on 10/10/2007, -1/+16"Common knowledge"? You're jaded.
- bluto36, on 10/10/2007, -4/+18you forgot "cruel Medical experiments"
- douggmc, on 10/10/2007, -8/+22What a stupid ***** comment.
- boredsam, on 10/10/2007, -4/+18Ask someone who survived the Japanese invasion of China if they are mad that America used the bomb.
- sonicdevo, on 10/10/2007, -1/+13If I recall correctly, their accounts were frozen in response to Japanese brutality in China.
- Homunculiheaded, on 10/10/2007, -3/+15okay, okay that's last time I swear.
- synaesthesia, on 10/10/2007, -0/+12The Hiroshima war museum actually does remark that one of the prime factors was Japan's decision to "march the path of war" or some *****.
- Hickeroar, on 10/10/2007, -0/+12It's also true that in other cities, far more people will killed in nightly carpet bombing in japan than were killed during hiroshima. Hiroshima seems small in comparison...
- AJH16, on 10/10/2007, -3/+15Perhaps you should realize that we didn't exactly have precission bombs back then. We would not have been able to simply bomb military targets in a particular area and end the war. We would have had to carpet bomb our way and then initiate a land invasion and fight across the country killing far more innocent people, (not to mention the military personel on both sides that would have been lost.) While it is regretable that so many civilian lives (I don't use innocent, because even the soldiers are innocent) were lost at once, it is far less than could have been lost had the bomb not been droped.
- treak007, on 10/10/2007, -14/+26Seriously, anyone who doesn't believe we should have dropped the bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, or is ashamed to be American because of it, obviously has never studied WWII and should be ashamed more of their ignorance.
- SteelChicken, on 10/10/2007, -7/+19why is it amazing? People who commit attrocities like the Bataan Death March and the Rape of Nanking deserve to get their asses bombed.
Same thing with Dresden. Dont want to get firebombed or nuked? Dont Invade dozens of countries and kill millions of their citizens for fun and profit. - BohicaTwentyTwo, on 10/10/2007, -0/+10Not for nothing, but is McNarra the right person to listen to on how to fight a war?
- BabyWookie, on 10/10/2007, -12/+22Here we go. Another round of the annual "Hiroshima/Nagasaki" flame war begins! I'll add some fuel to the fire, by saying that I think that it was tragic and unnessary and quote some important historical figures who seemed to aggree with my view:
""During his recitation of the relevant facts, I had been conscious of a feeling of depression and so I voiced to him my grave misgivings, first on the basis of my belief that Japan was already defeated and that dropping the bomb was completely unnecessary, and secondly because I thought that our country should avoid shocking world opinion by the use of a weapon whose employment was, I thought, no longer mandatory as a measure to save American lives. It was my belief that Japan was, at that very moment, seeking some way to surrender with a minimum loss of 'face'. The Secretary was deeply perturbed by my attitude..." - DWIGHT EISENHOWER
""It is my opinion that the use of this barbarous weapon at Hiroshima and Nagasaki was of no material assistance in our war against Japan. The Japanese were already defeated and ready to surrender because of the effective sea blockade and the successful bombing with conventional weapons.
"The lethal possibilities of atomic warfare in the future are frightening. My own feeling was that in being the first to use it, we had adopted an ethical standard common to the barbarians of the Dark Ages. I was not taught to make war in that fashion, and wars cannot be won by destroying women and children." - ADMIRAL WILLIAM D. LEAHY
"The use of the atomic bomb, with its indiscriminate killing of women and children, revolts my soul. ...the Japanese were prepared to negotiate all the way from February 1945...up to and before the time the atomic bombs were dropped; ...if such leads had been followed up, there would have been no occasion to drop the [atomic] bombs." -HERBERT HOOVER
"Based on a detailed investigation of all the facts and supported by the testimony of the surviving Japanese leaders involved, it is the Survey's opinion that certainly prior to 31 December 1945 and in all probability prior to 1 November 1945, Japan would have surrendered even if the atomic bombs had not been dropped, even if Russia had not entered the war, and even if no invasion had been planned or contemplated." -PAUL NITZE
"...when we didn't need to do it, and we knew we didn't need to do it, and they knew that we knew we didn't need to do it, we used them as an experiment for two atomic bombs." - BRIGADIER GENERAL CARTER CLARKE
More here: http://www.doug-long.com/quotes.htm - Niallgriff, on 10/10/2007, -4/+14"There's a thing called proportionality in war. Not only did they nuke them twice they fire bombed every single city in Japan to the ground killing hundreds of thousands every night. Not exactly proportional."
There's a little thing called ***** EM, look what the Japs were doing in Manchuria and the other places they took over. They got what was coming to them. In conclusion....***** EM. - mookiemookie, on 10/10/2007, -3/+13Show me where its written that a trade embargo against a belligerent nation that is invading other nations is an act of war.
- douggmc, on 10/10/2007, -1/+11ncairn's ...
You are a moron. Do you have any idea of the atrocities the Japanese committed in pre-WWII/during WWII? Ever hear of the Batan Death March? Ever read about other actions the Japanese took in Asia? There are pictures and videos of Japanese officers throwing a Chinese (or was it Korean) baby in the air and "catching" (i.e. impaling) it with their sword.
Go back to school you imbecile. - mjduell, on 10/10/2007, -10/+20Do you ever read about the history of WWII or do you just make it up as you go along? The Japanese deserved to get bombed. Period. They dragged us into a war we did not ask for. They killed 2000 service men during the attack on Pearl Harbor and hundreds of thousands more for the following four years. They had sworn to fight to the last person when we reached main land Japan. That would have cost the U.S. a minimum of 25,000 men in house to house fighting. Just because you can't handle your mis-guided, mis-informed, pussy-wipped, anti-American conscience, don't call someone who actually knows their history a "RETARD". I'm surprised that you even allowed yourself to write that word seeing your such a P.C., up-with-people *****.
- mrgreg, on 10/10/2007, -7/+16Both sides would of suffered much more casualties had we invaded the Japanese mainland. The Japanese were too proud to admit defeat, and we had to show them that we have the power to stop them, and to demoralize them enough to surrender without wiping out every last one of them.
It was tragic of course, but it had to happen. - sgtbutterscotch, on 10/10/2007, -4/+13Good thing you weren't on your high school debate team. This is what you would use as your only argument: "You're wrong."
- sonicdevo, on 10/10/2007, -0/+9Hiroshima and Nagasaki had factories used by the japanese war machine
- VinceNoir, on 10/10/2007, -2/+11Why do I suspect that the dubious honor of being the first and only to use the bomb is going to change in the next few years?
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