What is Digg?468 Comments
- zediker, on 10/12/2007, -13/+75easy, thoughs came about from hunting because of our physical disadvantages, we needed to innovate in order to survive. Imagination came from predicting what would happen next after thousands of years of trial and error. Emotions came about when we started becoming more social with eachother, emotions offered better insight into communication than rudimentary anger and contentment. Ethical senses were created when we started forming complex societies and created rules for people to follow. Eventualy someone thought, 'why?' and started the 1st philosophical thought, followed by 'why do we follow the rules' starting the 1st ethical thought.
Its quite easy to understand how these things came about in society, and it requires no faith at all to understand. - acceptab1euname, on 10/12/2007, -39/+99wow, that's messed up.
***** the fundies! - mctk, on 10/12/2007, -14/+70But evolution is fact. We've seen it. In our lifetime. This is undeniable. If this teacher can't talk about evolution, he may as well be banned from talking about the Holocaust as well.
The debate is about whether macroevolution occurs, which is simply a question of scale. All signs point to yes. What are we so afraid of? - tazamore, on 10/12/2007, -11/+65If I were the teacher I would rebel. I would use class time to teach science in the Bible. I would make the class calculate exactly how many animals were on Noah's Ark given the number of known species of earth, how many trees Noah had to carve to build a ship large enough to house all those animal with food, how many tons of food, how many man hours it took for Noah working alone, how many miles Noah had to travel to gather all the animals, the amount of oxygen in the belly of a whale, the number of dinosaurs mentioned in the Bible, the mechanics of the solar system as only described in the Bible, and so on. If any student says "That's not possible" then send a letter home to their parent's saying that their child is not taking science seriously and is at risk of failing. Make sure to call Fox News at the first signs of parents protesting, hire lawyers, and rant about religous discrimination and all science being a theory.
- Xopl, on 10/12/2007, -4/+54Teacher: "The rocks are very, very old."
Little Mandy: "How old are they?"
Teacher: "I could tell you, but I'd get fired." - zediker, on 10/12/2007, -14/+59Here is a simple form of evolution, that has occurred in our lifetimes, that creationists often ignore. Human controlled Cat and Dog breeding. Over the last 50 or so years, selective breeding (trait selected evolution, by human intervention) has been occurring. We have modified and created new breeds of animals by breeding them selectively to suit our tastes. Just take a look at what a siamese cat looked like 50 years ago, and what one looks like now. Drastic changes have been made to these animals to suit our tastes, over a verry short time span (such as shortening the noses of pyranese and pugs). The only difference between these animals and non-tamed animals is that we controlled the selection process of which genes (through selection of the most desirable traits) were passed down to the young, and not the ones that offered the best advantage to survive and reproduce. This is real, physical proof, that evolution works. If we can change this much in 50 or so years, given a natural enviroment, even more drastic changes can occur easily within thousands of years of nature based gene selection.
- Tritis, on 10/12/2007, -8/+50Education is dangerous. Children might question their parents and church leaders. Now who wants that?
- polymangler, on 10/12/2007, -0/+37Being a resident of Arkansas and educated in Bryant school district (suburb of Little Rock) I can say that this falls right in line with the education I received. Bias to the point of scandal
Because of this and other constant reminders living in the bible belt I have no doubt we did not evolve from apes...there is no way, it just didn't happen people. We evolved from our brother the ostrich, evidence can be found of this by looking at the fact WE STICK OUR HEAD IN THE GROUND every time an opposing idea crops up instead of trying to use what little intelligence we've managed to cultivate in our species. - colebarnes, on 10/12/2007, -1/+37Well, I'm one of those wacky creationists, but this story is absolutely absurd.
Contrary to my peers, I think that evolution does belong in a science class while creationism/intelligent design does not. Forget the argument over whether the theory has been proved or not. The very nature of a theory says it belongs in the science class.
Matters of faith and things that are not provable (other than by faith) have no place there. So I say let the guy teach his subject. This is crazy... - levilprivateer, on 10/12/2007, -4/+39"...and all the "fundies" in other areas of the country are just as pissed about having their theory..."
Whoops, hold on. You're not practicing good science. A THEORY is a hypothesis that has been tested repeatedly. A theory must be provable (if not proven), and it must have been reached through the processes of logic and the best science available at the time. The most you can call creationism is a HYPOTHESIS... and sadly, it is a hypothesis which cannot graduate to THEORY because to do so, it would have to be logically provable. An all powerful deity who can alter the very nature of existence is not provable (because that entity could simply alter reality to reflect its nonexistence)... and therefore, the HYPOTHESIS of creationism has no place in the classroom.
On the other hand, if you prefer to learn an unprovable hypothesis based on faith, then there are thousands of religions willing to teach you all about it. - Xopl, on 10/12/2007, -3/+34I'm so sick of this "no politics" argument.
Geology and Evolutionary Biology are sciences. This is an attack on science. You had better ***** LEARN to start caring. - lalindsey, on 10/12/2007, -11/+42
I'm sorry, but this is why religion is wrong:
"The explanation that had been given to Bob by his supervisors was that their science facility is in a delicate position and must avoid irritating some religious fundamentalists who may have their fingers on the purse strings of various school districts. Apparently his supervisors feared that teachers or parents might be offended if Bob taught their children about the age of rocks and that it would result in another school district pulling out of their program."
That's all religion is, is money holding fake crap.
Anyway, what intelligent person can really believe that some "mystical" being from "heaven" just "poof" decided one day to make a man, earth, bodies of water ... etc. It's not logical. Not reasonal. It's fantasy. It's bedtime stories fed to us by people in power with money to keep us in line to their will.
It is crap. - florin, on 10/12/2007, -16/+45Hi, my name is Fred Flintstone. Thanks for taking care of this country, now step aside as we're taking over.
- tuna1, on 10/12/2007, -4/+33Politics plays a prominent role in our world and we should pay attention instead of pretending it doesn't exist.
- MaxTheSheep, on 10/12/2007, -10/+39Yay! Yet another step back for education!
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -7/+34So do you support the teaching of phrenology alongside psychology or heliocentrism in astronomy or norse mytholgoy and pastafarianism alongisde evolution?
- FoxHunter, on 10/12/2007, -9/+34You sir, are an idiot.
- MrUnderbridge, on 10/12/2007, -3/+27Certainly evolution could be falsified. One way would be to do a thorough search of the fossil record, and find no organisms that differ from those currently living. That would disprove evolution.
Just because evolution is falsifiable doesn't mean it's false. It happens to be falsifiable and correct. Does that mean that each mechanism by which each individual species came to be is known? No, nor is that necessary, in the sense that I don't need to calculate each orbit of each star and planet to "prove" that gravity is correct. Eventually, when you see the same pattern happening over and over, with only one explanation that fits the evidence very well, you come to believe it. That's where we are with evolution. - Crosshare, on 10/12/2007, -1/+25They won't allow him to say that rocks are 300 million years old because that would defy what the bible says about the history of the earth.
- hardcle, on 10/12/2007, -5/+29The same people who don't believe in evolution also often believe that the earth is only 5000 years old. From the story:
"He spun a scenario of a student’s returning home with stories beginning with “Millions of years ago …” that could set a fundamentalist parent on a veritable witch hunt, first gathering support of like-minded parents and then showing up at school board meetings until the district pulled out of the science program to avoid conflict." - diggerphelps, on 10/12/2007, -9/+32As a black American, it's nice to be thought of a NEW SPECIES, however, I assure you that -- despite my superior ability to dance, sing and play hoops -- this is not the case.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -2/+23This the reason religious people should play no part in what is taught in our schools unless it specifically applies to their domain. We must teach science first and then people can learn about religion in Religious Education if they wish to. Science should be taught as science, religion is religion, the two are different and must never cross.
People are welcome to their own beliefs but not when it involves forcing it upon others.
If the school my kids went to took such a stance I'd take my kids elsewhere, as would most other parents I'm sure. - Moocat, on 10/12/2007, -5/+26Creationism is NOT a theory people. Someone wrote up a story in a book. There is no EVIDENCE, the lifeblood of a theory. Evolution has evidence. People are not saying "teach evolution as fact", they're saying "teach the Theory of Evolution" just as every normal educative program should. They are also saying don't bring religous ideaologies into anything below a college level class. Ignoring the facts leads to self-induced ignorance.
- tekmaktenor, on 10/12/2007, -4/+24But unlike creationism there is scientific evidence behind Evolution by Natural Selection. Creationism is anecdotal. "I read it in a book"
- baraqiyal, on 10/12/2007, -0/+20"Just a theory", just like the theory of gravity or the theory of planets going around the sun are "just" theories. You have to learn the difference between the use of the word "theory" in a scientific context vs. the common everyday use of the word.
And what do you mean “fossil records show NOTHING of evolution”? Can you be any more ill-informed? - brandonking, on 10/12/2007, -2/+21Evolution is a THEORY because in order for it to be a LAW it must be isolated form all possible confounding variables. That is, and listen carefully: EVOLUTION IS A THEORY BECAUSE WE CANNOT GO BACK IN TIME AND OBSERVE EVERY MOMENT LEADING UP TO THE CURRENT OBSERVATIONS.
Gravity is also a THEORY because in order to prove it you would ahve to observe gravitational pull from on an object in isolation from the rest of the universe. Unfortuantely, we can't seem to figure out how to get rid of the rest of the universe, so gravity will always be a theory.
However, just because you don't want to 'believe' in gravity, it doesn't mean you'll fall up. My lord you're dumb. Please stop polluting the interweb. - zediker, on 10/12/2007, -5/+24Well, something that drastic would take lots of dedication and possibly centuries of selective breeding (longer than most scientists would dedicate themselves to achieving a goal). However, it would be possible to create a cat that looked like a dog by breeding in larger size, non-retracible claws, the appropriate skull deformations to look like a dog, a more skeletaly fused tail, etc. Would it be possible to breed a cat directly into a dog? No. Because in order to do that, we would have to de-volve the cat into the shared ancestor that it has with dogs, and then work its way back up the evolutionary chain to 'dog' status. So while some questions propose interesting ideas, some of the ideas are not possible (yet).
However, we have done cross-breeding to create new species, like mules (horse-donkey), tigons(tiger mother, lion father), and lygers(lion mother, tiger father). The only problem with those are that since their parents are so genetically dissimilar, they usualy come out sterile, unable to breed themselves, even with other mules, tigons, or lygers. - Moocat, on 10/12/2007, -2/+20Theories have not been disproven are are based upon proveable experiments and evidence. Experiments and evidence help support the cause of a theory, not directly prove it because we do not currently possess the technology to completely prove ANYTHING. However, we do possess the technology to DISPROVE old ideas...like the world being flat.
If there were a way to disprove evolution, fine, then show me your evidence. But bringing up a creationist BELIEF which has not one single shred of evidence or fact to it's name that will even make it a theory, is idiocy at its best. If you don't want you children to learn basic scientific facts, fine, take them out of MY schools and teach them your beliefs, let them grow up to be incompetant employees working at a low end mininum wage job. Maybe they'll even move into your mountain shack in a hole in the ground and help you build your cult.
It's the best you can hope for when you pick and choose what to teach based on your religous beliefs. - oliverc, on 10/12/2007, -3/+21The most oft-told example of evolution is the peppered moth in England in the 19th century. The moths were brightly colored around 1850 and then with the heavy (and dirty) industrialisation in Manchester, soot started to cover the trees where the moths hang out. Pretty soon all the birds that feed on the moths found it a lot easier to see the bright moths against the dark leaves. Moths that were slightly darker had a significant advantage and pretty soon virtually all the moths of that species were very dark. Ta-da! Evolution at work baby.
- fantasticFlan, on 10/12/2007, -3/+21"Evolution is still a therory."
In scientific terms a theory is the top of the ladder. - Galaeron, on 10/12/2007, -6/+21Yay lets not educate our youth and let them grow up on a one track mind
- Tritis, on 10/12/2007, -2/+16That isn't even evolution. That is handled by abiogensis. Evolution only deals with life -> life. Evolution is not a theory that attempts to explain non-life -> life. Although evolution via natural selection might apply to pre-life proteins and amino acids.
- gizmo3x, on 10/12/2007, -0/+13And people wonder why American schools are failing...
- jwalk81980, on 10/12/2007, -3/+16Nearly all credible scientists agree that evolution does not need to be considered theory any longer. The only theory part about it now is not if it happened, by why and exactly how.
- Dehx, on 10/12/2007, -2/+15lmao. This is crazy. I can't believe that Arkansas finally make the top digg list.
- paulmetzger, on 10/12/2007, -7/+20zedlicker:
While you are right that genetic change happens through selective breeding, your cats and dogs example isn't speciation. That's one of the big problems with our current lack of evolution education -- people get the general concept of natural selection, but don't have an adequate understanding of actual evolutionary theory. As a result the fundie creationists feel that they can "scientifically disprove" evolution by making arguments that have nothing to do with actual evolution.
Wikipedia has a decent overview: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution
If you'd like to read more but want something more contemporary than Darwin's "Origin", I'd recommend Richard Dawkins -- informative and entertaining. - Sprint111, on 10/12/2007, -0/+12I think some of the posters are forgetting one thing: we don't need to go back in time to observe evolution and its cohort natural selection and adaptation. Pick up any number of books and medical journals and you will see articles and research papers detailing the rise of antibiotic-resistant bacteria. Many years ago, penicillin was touted as a wonder-drug. However, today, we need the likes of vancomycin, Synercid, Linezolid, and a host of quinolones to combat bacterial infections. However even in the few years that vancomycin has been in use, we have seen the occurrence of VISA (vancomycin intermediate resistant Staphylococcus aureus) as well as the full-blown resistant variety. Some institutions have been finding and storing Staphyloccocus aureus and Enterrococcus samples for the last decade (even before some of the newer drugs have been introduced). The result? They can see the changes in DNA and phenotypes of the bacteria as they adapt to the new drugs. In fact, some particular strains have actually changed so much they depend on the drugs to function! It's scary to think that the flesh-eating bacteria (Necrotizing fasciitis) are also developing immunities to our medicines.
Yes, these bacteria have not become new species, but if one compares the sample of the bacteria from 30 years ago to one today, they are so dissimilar that a person unknowing of their incredible mutation powers would mistaken them for different species (in fact, in this war of us versus bacteria, mistaking a resistant bacteria for a new species is all too common). I mean, some of them have developed much thicker walls, developed new pumps for removing the antibiotics, developed new mechanisms inside and out to neutralize and circumvent the drugs. Some of these bacteria are so different structurally from their original counterparts that they would not longer be able to swap pieces of genetic material (the definition of a species!) without the intervention of a lab.
Sorry for this tirade, but natural selection does occur.
Evolution is NOT a monkey turning into a man. Sadly, that is what those Arkansas kids are going to grow up thinking. Evolution is the process fueled by natural selection in which organisms become so different that they are no longer able to produce viable offspring with one another. If we didn't all have a common ancestor, why do all chordates (vertebrates) develop gill slits (note I said slits, not functional gills) during the embryonic stage of development only to disappear shortly thereafter? Is this some sort of theatrical entertainment for the All-Mighty? Mind you, without MODERN SCIENCE, we wouldn't even be able to observe these pharyngeal slits...so did he put them there for amusement so he can see something "fishy" pop up and then disappear from us? - Xopl, on 10/12/2007, -2/+14You haven't heard the "God put the bones there to test our faith" argument?
- shaun944, on 10/12/2007, -0/+11Just because you read something doesn't make it true. You people misconstrue scientists self-skepticism with admitting actual errors. A scientist must accept that NOTHING is proven because that is healthy for science - ie. gravity, I can drop a ball a million times and it will fall to the ground, but I have no PROOF that on the million and oneth try the ball won't float up - it's highly unlikely, but anyone honest has to accept that there is always a miniscule chance, however improbable.
It is the belief that something IS proven that is antithetical to intellectual growth and science. The only people walking around who claim to "know" something as fact are the religious ones, and they can't produce one single experiment to back their claims.
how many cliches are out there to support this foolishness? "Those who say they know, know not"
And for the record, the Vatican, the Pope has said that the theory of evolution is sound and does not hinder the belief in God. Its the people who see the bible as a work of literal interpretation that are getting this messed up. I have a crazy concept, its called METAPHOR!!!!!
And don't throw around the word "Christian" as if all Christians can't reconcile with evolution. There are plenty of Christians who believe in god as the primogenitor of life but accept that Adam and Eve, garden of eden etc are fictional and that life evolved from lesser organisms. In fact, many people point to the idea that such complex life evolved from single cells as the real wonder of god's plan. - rabiddogma, on 10/12/2007, -1/+12Good night American democracy, hello American Taliban.
- 2ltkap, on 10/12/2007, -2/+13I had intended some kind of funny quip on the topic but this whole thing is stupid enough all by itself
without my adding anything - wlrayburn, on 10/12/2007, -0/+11As an Arkansas native and as someone who completely had it with fundamentalists and their idiocy at the ripe old age of 10, I can't really describe just how much this mortifies me.
In school it drove me bonkers that C and D students thought they could tell me "the truth" about the big questions, when they couldn't do a blasted math problem with tutoring. Right, the dunces know "what's best." It's their supreme, unflattering sickly-sweet arrogance and their mission to drag us all back to their Dark Ages values of ignorance and superstition that must be aggressively checked.
These fundamentalists aren't smart people. They are the insecure, the foolish, the desparate. With their fundamentalist church hammering them about what is absolutely right and absolutely wrong, they are given a sense of mission and confidence that "they're special and know what's really going on." They woudn't do anything "good" unless they thought it was getting them brownie points with God. Though I suppose we should be thankful that religion often keeps such potentially troublesome ignoramouses in line. However when they start being organized by a handful of shrewd hucksters into a political force . . . they must be shown the error of their beliefs.
They will never realize that only fools or villains ask you to take anything without question... on faith.
I'm all for freedom of religion - as long as you don't try to enforce your faith-based interpretation du jour on me, restricting what I can do, what I can read, and what my kids can learn!
Keep religion in church/synagogue/mosque/philosophy class and keep science - ACTUAL SCIENCE (not this creationism malarky) - in science class and teach it fully! - adam.lindsay, on 10/12/2007, -0/+11Advice to those in the Arkansas school districts, when in an interview years from now, don't mention that you attended school in Arkansas.
- TheGalacticFork, on 10/12/2007, -2/+12They clearly haven't seen Planet of the Apes....
- rideagain, on 10/12/2007, -0/+10Except if you happen to live in the same country as these people, and they can vote. Then you should care, before the country elects someone even more hostile to science.
- emilng, on 10/12/2007, -0/+10http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ostriches#Behavior - Ostriches don't actually bury their heads in the ground; just one more thing they aren't teaching in school I guess.
- willcode4beer, on 10/12/2007, -2/+12Evolution is not fact, it is a theory.
Creationism is not a theory, its a belief.
These things each have their place. By keeping them there we can improve the world.
By using the theory of evolution, we create medicines and vaccines; we create better stronger crops; we learn where not to use pesticides and chemicals; we make the world a better place. We are also just beginning to learn about evolution (for instance the article the other day about how we can modify our own genetics). Because the theory of evolution is incomplete, we strive to learn more. we make our lives, our children's lives, and our planet better for it.
Creationism is better left to philosophers. I have yet to see a case of a scientific advancement based on the idea of creationism or intelligent design. Creationism and id have another problem. If you can just say some entity did it then there is no motivation to investigate, there is nothing to stimulate curiosity, nothing changes. No disease has been cured based on creationism. It seems the last time religion got involved with medicine, doctors were trying to bleed evil spirits out of the sick. - signal15, on 10/12/2007, -0/+9This is ridiculous. That teacher needs to grow some balls and challenge this or nothing is going to happen.
And, to those parents who want their children taught intelligent design or bible crap, send your ***** kids to a religious school, and stop trying to make my school teach my kids *****. My kid's education shouldn't have to suffer because you choose to have your kids brainwashed with your fairy tales. - joeyjojo, on 10/12/2007, -0/+9Anyone old enough to remember when our country was respected for our advancements in science and engineering?
Those were the days.
Now the rest of the world just looks at us like that crazy cousin we all have. - el_jefe, on 10/12/2007, -1/+10"But evolution is fact. We've seen it. In our lifetime. "
Yes, and no. Evolution is still a therory. While its the presiding theory and in most cases taken as fact in the scientific community, it is technically still a theory and at any point be completely thrown out (highly unlikely, but as a scientist I have to be open). There are still a lot of questions to answer. But you are right, the basics of evolution can be seen in nature, with our very own eyes, for those who open their eyes to see it. What Lamarck, Darwin, Wallace, and Mendel originally proposed continues to be refined to this day. Maybe we are totally wrong. Maybe we are totally right. All the is certain is that the work that started around the 18th century continues. -
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