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Are Rechargeable Batteries That Great?

greenopolis.com — This year alone, 1 person will throw away an average of 8 batteries and Americans together will purchase close to 3 billion dry-cell batteries. So how do you stop yourself from following the crowd of battery tossers and buyers?

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  • PatrickJonathan, on 06/20/2008, -2/+45We have a 4 month old baby and with all the toys and whatnots that take batteries. If not for rechargeable batteries our baby would have a bunch of fancy toys that do nothing.
    • greenguy2323, on 06/23/2008, -1/+17Yeah, I couldn't believe how many batteries we were going through when we had our baby (3 mo old now). I can't believe all of her stuff isn't rechargeable anyway, especially the swing?
      • BalooUrsidae, on 06/21/2008, -0/+1I'm surprised the swing isn't wind-up...they make them motorized now?
    • BigManOnCampus, on 06/20/2008, -13/+8No solar panels for your baby's toys? How can you call yourself an environmentalist!?!?
    • Tyrghast, on 06/21/2008, -4/+33FYI kids, babies in particular, are more fascinated by every day objects than toys. Plus, it encourages imagination.
    • Haplo, on 06/21/2008, -0/+7Yup, I agree with Tyrghast. Our daughter (1 year + 2 months), has only one toy that uses batteries, and she hardly plays with it. She plays a lot with duplo blocks, peanut butter lids, books, a plastic ball, a handbag, stuffed animals.

      Oh, and she watches baby Einstein on a notebook now and then.
    • BeefBaron, on 06/21/2008, -1/+10Would the baby really care if the toys in question did not vibrate, make noises or flail plastic around wildly?
      • dazparkour, on 06/21/2008, -1/+1They probably wouldn't have the same value.
    • marillion, on 06/21/2008, -0/+2You say that like it's a bad thing. I'm with the majority here to feel good toys don't need batteries.
    • DontGiveADamn, on 06/21/2008, -3/+3AA batteries == choke hazard. Kids will put anything in their mouths, you don't want those going in there.
      • dazparkour, on 06/21/2008, -0/+3If babies can climb up to a drawer twice their height, open it, get the philips screwdriver, get down from the worktop and back to the toy to unscrew the cover over the battery all without parents noticing, I think we have a bigger problem.
    • donkeySays, on 06/21/2008, -0/+3Introduce them to video games.
  • scooterbaga, on 06/20/2008, -3/+168Yes, rechargeable batteries are that great.
    • mywhitenoise, on 06/20/2008, -7/+5They could be better, though. After a few months use they start losing their charge really fast.
      • DeskFlyer, on 06/20/2008, -2/+35Depends on which brand, type, how you recharge them, how you use them, what they are being used in, and a myriad of other factors including why I suck at talking to women.
        • mywhitenoise, on 06/21/2008, -0/+8Energizer 2500 mAh batteries mainly on wii remotes, rock band guitars, and my keyboard and mouse. Everything else I own have lithium batteries.
        • lemur, on 06/21/2008, -0/+5I used to have standard NiMH batteries in my electric toothbrush, but they tend to drain in a ridiculous amount of time when not in use. I noticed the same problem with every device I used rechargeable batteries in.

          Sometimes last year, I found and bought some Sanyo "Enerloop" batteries that are supposed to retain their charge when not in use. I have to say that I'm super impressed by it! I used to have to charge my toothbrush batteries every few days, but now it's only every few weeks.
        • applemachome, on 06/21/2008, -0/+1Hybrid NiMH batteries (like Rayovacs) have a smaller mAh rating, but hold charges longer when not in use, and also are fully charged out of the box.
        • damndj, on 06/21/2008, -0/+2The Enerloop batteries are outstanding.
        • loopyloopy, on 06/21/2008, -0/+1ok, 1 free digg for the first person who can tell me where i can buy these Eneloops in Australia in a bricks and mortar store.

          i was going to say the losing charge part is the most irritating thing about rechargeables, but these could be just the answer i'm looking for.
        • Ovalteen, on 06/21/2008, -0/+1loopyloopy:

          Dick Smith's. Go to dse.com.au, type in eneloop in the search bar. I haven't used them myself but HTH.
      • lamiaconfitor, on 06/21/2008, -0/+2Ive been using the same set for about 2 1/2 years, economically waaaay more viable then buying some every time I need them, you need to not charge them every chance you get, let them run out. its called battery memory.
    • AmericansRevolt, on 06/21/2008, -0/+2i bought 80 AA panasonic NiMH in a bulk box about 5 years ago for $50 on ebay. stilling using a few dozen after giving out more then half of them. i bet 15-20 are dead by now, but i cant image the cost of AA alkalines for 5 years
    • monoa, on 06/21/2008, -0/+2Yup, I bought a bunch ~6 years ago - still going strong. Saved me a fortune and saved a pile of ***** chemicals getting dumped in some land fill.
    • whatsupimphil, on 06/21/2008, -0/+1Real reason at 3:50

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LEulF46u0lU&feature ...
    • culbeda, on 06/21/2008, -1/+1The only problem for most consumers is that they buy cheap batteries and cheap chargers to go with them. Not a great combination. I've been buying from these guys for a few years now and I've had great success:

      http://www.all-battery.com/
  • MrErr, on 06/20/2008, -2/+58I use rechargeable batteries for MY toys around the house :)
    • InfamousAtheist, on 06/20/2008, -1/+84My girlfriend uses them in hers too...
    • brownsnake12, on 06/20/2008, -14/+5big deal, my girlfriend uses a nuclear reactor in hers, turns out she has cancer of the scrotum!...........wait
    • LanceUppercut, on 06/21/2008, -4/+3that's what she said. Oh wait..
  • borez, on 06/20/2008, -4/+22I bought a sum total of six batteries last year... and that was only for the misses coz I was going away for a week.
    • ColonelKool, on 06/20/2008, -0/+6What did you use that week?
    • Echosphere, on 06/21/2008, -3/+3No you did not.
    • nate94gt, on 06/21/2008, -10/+1Please, you have no wife. Admit it.
    • NotOptium, on 06/21/2008, -0/+3She went through 6 batteries in a week? Your wife must be a freak.
      • Rikkochet, on 06/21/2008, -0/+3Unless she needed one charge at 9V.
        Holy crap, that's even freakier.
      • borez, on 06/22/2008, -0/+1Her walkman takes two batteries at a time.

        lol

        ;0)
  • greenguy2323, on 06/23/2008, -12/+6People need to get their minds out of the gutter!
    • Echosphere, on 06/21/2008, -6/+1Agreed.
    • nate94gt, on 06/21/2008, -2/+9this place is surrounded by nerds that do nothing but dream about a woman and post on digg. Its impossible to get out of the gutter
  • isparadiselost, on 06/20/2008, -8/+12I have done my best to switch entirely to rechargeable batteries. I have been somewhat disappointed with their longevity. They are good for "up" to 1000 charges. Most of mine haven't made it past 10. NiCad vs. NiMH is another topic for debate. Now there's Li-Ion as well. I am all for rechargeables as long as they'll actually last for a couple of years. They cost about 4 times as much as alkalines so should last at least 4 times as long.
    • greenguy2323, on 06/23/2008, -1/+15What are you using to charge them? Do you think there could be a problem with the charger?
      • isparadiselost, on 06/20/2008, -1/+1I use this: http://www.thomas-distributing.com/ap-accupower20. ...
        • MillionsLivio, on 06/21/2008, -2/+2You just proved his point..
        • TehProphet, on 06/21/2008, -0/+3Probably a piece of crap charger.. I've been using a duracell charger, cost me $15 with 2 AA batteries, The batteries seem to last about a year, and I am almost constantly charging them, my wiimotes and digital cameras drain them pretty quickly. I use energizer and duracell 2500mAh NiMh batteries.
      • cgruber, on 06/21/2008, -0/+1I use a cheap-ass energizer charger that takes like 10 hrs to charge but it's been working for 6 yrs now just fine. We've switched entirely to rechargeables and I know it's saved us a boat load, especially with all the batteries my youngest child's toys take.
    • ironhide, on 06/20/2008, -1/+10I agree with CommonDavid, it could be the charger, I've got 4 rechargable AAs that I salvaged from an ancient MP3 player that I'm still using 3 years later.
    • jerbaker, on 06/21/2008, -0/+10Are you serious? Rechargeable batteries hold almost triple the power of an alkaline battery and can be recharged hundreds, if not thousands, of times. A 2700 mah NiMH AA battery holds about 3 watt-hours of electricity, whereas a common alkaline AA holds only just under 1 watt-hour. The drawback to rechargeable NiMH is that they self discharge somewhat rapidly, but you can get Eneloop or similar batteries with very low self-discharge rates. There is no drawback to these rechargeables in comparison to alkalines. None.

      Stop buying $3 chargers and cheap-ass no-name batteries and you won't have any problems.
    • happycat, on 06/21/2008, -0/+5The 1000 charge claim that the battery manufacturers state might be a stretch, but no way should they last only 10 charges. You should get a couple of hundred of charges at least. I've been using the same NiMH AA batteries for years and have recharged them a few hundred times and they still hold charge better than Alkaline in my camera.

      NiCad is junk compared to NiMH. NiMH holds more power and had no recharge memory like NiCad does, and NiCad really does start to deteriorate after 10 charges, from my experience.

      I've saved hundreds of dollars with NiMH batteries in the past five years, and I've stopped a few dozen kilos of heavy metal and other crap from ending up in a landfill somewhere.

      The only disadvantage of NiMH I've found is the shelf life. As they sit they noticeably lose charge even in a few weeks, whereas alkaline can sit for years and keep their full charge.
  • BlueSkyfish, on 06/20/2008, -4/+20They're pretty much necessary if you have a digital camera. They can drain an alkaline battery in less than an hour, but somehow rechargeable batteries last a lot longer.
    • ExRe, on 06/21/2008, -1/+6First tip to good photography.

      Only use the flash when you _need_ it. You can get hundreds or thousands of pictures on a good battery if you don't use the flash every time. A lot of times having the flash on actually reduces the image quality as well.
      • pcghost, on 06/21/2008, -0/+52nd tip for good photography. Built-in Flash == Mug Shot Photography
      • ryusen, on 06/26/2008, -0/+0that's a tip for saving your batteries not for good photography. It's a question of knowing when to use your flash. in bright daylight you should use your flash for fill, which many people don't. Well generally. There are always exceptions.
    • jerbaker, on 06/21/2008, -3/+4Rechargeables last longer because they hold 3-4 times as much energy as an alkaline battery.
      • krnldmp, on 06/21/2008, -1/+4That's actually, wrong.
        • jerbaker, on 06/21/2008, -0/+3Actually, it's not. Why don't you try measuring it and let us know what you come up with. I can tell you that a 2700 MAH NiMH AA will run at 300 mW for a little over 8 hours. An alkaline AA at the same discharge rate dies after about 2.5 hours or so.
        • Hamletlere, on 06/21/2008, -1/+4They last longer only if you are using them a lot. If they sit around for much time at all, they self-discharge. Alkalines do not.
        • jerbaker, on 06/21/2008, -0/+1Some rechargeables self-discharge faster than alkalines, but newer ultra low discharge rechargeables do not. Regardless, this has no bearing on the energy capacity of a battery. The original post claims that rechargeables hold less energy than alkalines, and that is grossly incorrect.
    • Mr8lack, on 06/21/2008, -5/+2good cameras come with a rechargeable battery pack built in. Just plug it in and go. I have no pity for the suckers that buy the cameras that need 4 AA batteries.
      • MtheoryX, on 06/21/2008, -0/+3You can buy a lot of AA batteries for the cost of one of those proprietary "battery packs."
      • Mr8lack, on 06/22/2008, -0/+1actually those "proprietary battery packs" come with the camera for the same price as the cameras that don' have them.
    • Linzee82, on 06/21/2008, -0/+1Another good way to save your batteries in a digital camera:

      Don't leave the LCD screen on. If you can, use the viewfinder. Try to use the LCD screen only if you are having trouble seeing through the viewfinder (e.g. too dark in the room). Those screens will kill your batteries within the night if you leave it on all the time.
  • Dumbledorito, on 06/20/2008, -1/+7Great for cameras, shower radios, and small audio accessories (external speakers, some mp3 players, etc.).

    I also love the rechargeable battery packs for my power tools.
    • BrettSchu, on 06/21/2008, -0/+1They're actually pretty bad in digital cameras. I used rechargeable batteries in my Wiimotes, and my house remotes, but I find that even the "better" rechargeable batteries don't last very long at all in a digital camera.
  • SuperWinner, on 06/20/2008, -5/+5Now if someone would make a solar battery recharger... you might have somethin
    • dsmx, on 06/20/2008, -1/+10which leads us neatly along to the best invention ever, the solar powered torch.
      • cap11235, on 06/21/2008, -0/+2If you are an American, you could always use a magnifying glass. If you're British, you're out of luck.
    • trumpydumpy, on 06/20/2008, -0/+4http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000EQ8WKA
      • cgruber, on 06/21/2008, -1/+1Expensive, and only charges 2 at a shot but it's a step in the right direction.
    • hemiroid, on 06/21/2008, -2/+1Like the solar rechargeable flashlight?
    • pinguwin, on 06/21/2008, -0/+0Dig(g) a little more and you'll find numerous solar chargers with different capacities than the one linked to above. While not an everyday item at a department store, they are out there.
    • SquishyMon, on 06/21/2008, -0/+1http://tiny.cc/nj5FT

      I got one of those a week ago, haven't really stress tested to compare how fast it can charge put you can also plug it into the wall.
  • cheerio, on 06/20/2008, -4/+45Did this really need to be an article? Seriously?
  • Vikaas, on 06/20/2008, -3/+84"Batteries are the most dramatic object. Other objects, they stop working or they break. But batteries..they die.
    "Hey man, why aren't you listening to your walkman?"
    "I can't. My batteries DIED in my lap this morning...""
    • thedragon4453, on 06/21/2008, -1/+2Dimitri Martin?
    • Dirtynoodle111, on 06/21/2008, -1/+20Dugg for Demitri Martin.
    • natergin, on 06/21/2008, -1/+4that was very insightful,
      Now I will always think of your comment when my batteries die.
    • webcrumb, on 06/21/2008, -0/+4I prefer to break it gently...

      "My batteries passed away. It was expected."
    • MtheoryX, on 06/21/2008, -0/+1I put my batteries in the bye-bye box.
  • granolajoe, on 06/20/2008, -2/+14They're good for digital cameras - I can't imagine how many dumpsters of disposable batteries I would have filled for both of my cameras after going on trips. The rechargeables keep us from creating more waste.
  • shadowmoose, on 06/20/2008, -6/+2I just recycle my old batteries? I really don't use them a lot anyway.
    • shadowmoose, on 06/21/2008, -2/+1screw u guyz ima toss them i n the garbage neow.
      • MtheoryX, on 06/21/2008, -0/+1"screw u guyz ima toss them i n the garbage meow."

        * Meow it's fixed.
  • l800LEMMINGS, on 06/20/2008, -1/+7yes they are that great but we should look toward better alternatives that don't have the shortcoming chemical rechargable batteries do like ultra capacitors (charge faster, charge quality doesn't degrade over time, holds more power)
    • krnldmp, on 06/21/2008, -0/+1The truth is ultracapacitors have a charge cycle life similar to the way batteries do, its just a lot higher and more tolerant to partial discharge with Much better shelf life. But their energy density is still comparatively "poor".
  • Spamcan, on 06/20/2008, -10/+1I haven't switched to rechargeables because I can buy enough disposable batteries in bulk to power all my devices for over a year for roughly the cost of 4 rechargeables and a charger and I don't have to wait or spend even more to have an extra set to swap out. Until the day I'm up to my knees in dead batteries the waste issue isn't going to effect me and regardless of how many times they can be reused I'm not about to spend around $70 to replace everything with rechargables when I can buy desposables for longer then those batteries will last for less.
    • buba1243, on 06/20/2008, -2/+9Wow your math skills suck. Life span of good rechargeable 1000 charges plus last longer then disposables. So if cost for disposables * 1000 < cost of rechargeables then you have a point otherwise go back to 4th grade math class.

      If you can afford to power everything on a rechargeable just slowly replace them as you go. Leave the disposables in till they die then replace them with a rechargeable or rotate a few rechargeable around. The only reason to not go rechargeables is you don't like money and you want to ***** the earth.
    • Echosphere, on 06/21/2008, -0/+0Yes, you suck.
  • DeskFlyer, on 06/20/2008, -2/+21I have 8 Duracell NiMH 2650mA batteries that I rotate in and out of my Olympus SP-560 (it holds 4). I can shoot for a week straight with them without the battery icon even going to halfway (assuming I'm shooting with no flash and with the LCD screen off). Plus they are useful for about 1,000 recharges, which means I can use the same 8 batteries for my camera 2,000 times. So yes, they are that great.
  • OffPiste, on 06/20/2008, -16/+3***** the planet. What do I care happens to the earth after I die?
    • nblsavage, on 06/20/2008, -1/+7Well, hopefully you haven't bred so I can understand that attitude. I will say that when you die, you will obviously become very good fertilizer so that will help.
      • DeskFlyer, on 06/20/2008, -3/+2I'm pretty sure that was either a joke, a lame troll attempt, or simply reflecting the mindset of many people nowadays.
      • robtot, on 06/20/2008, -2/+4Pwnt! :P
    • greenlight2001, on 06/21/2008, -0/+4I'm gonna plant corn on your grave. Yummy nutrients!
    • cherwilco, on 06/21/2008, -0/+1he doesn't care because he is an inmate serving life.
  • Lane, on 06/20/2008, -4/+11What a waste of an article, I thought I would be exposed to something halfway informative... This is nothing but useless blathering that tells me nothing more than they pollute less.
  • trumpydumpy, on 06/20/2008, -7/+7Buried as common sense.
    • greenguy2323, on 06/23/2008, -1/+7You think the difference between Nickel Cadmium (NiCd) - Nickel-Metal Hydride (NiMH) and Lithium-ion is common sense?
  • Nudar, on 06/21/2008, -1/+17I would recommend the Sanyo Eneloop batteries which you can find at Costco. They hold their charge better than any other rechargeable battery on the market and work great for low drain devices like tv remotes or wii controllers.
    • greenlight2001, on 06/21/2008, -0/+2Agreed. Can leave them around for a year and they still have a decent charge left.
      • jerbaker, on 06/21/2008, -2/+1Put them in the fridge and they'll last for a very long time.
        • greenlight2001, on 06/21/2008, -0/+3Not true the the Eneloops. In fact, that has been shown to be untrue for all rechargables. The difference is so minimal as to be useless.
        • jerbaker, on 06/21/2008, -1/+2I dunno. If I perform a discharge test on batteries that have been in the fridge for a week, I see about ~10% drain. If I leave them out around the house, I see around ~15-20%. A week is pretty short, but my batteries are on short rotation and I don't want to buy more just to test.
    • voodoozombie, on 06/21/2008, -0/+1Eneloop batteries ROCK! My Canon A710 IS gets 650 photos per charge with 2 AAs (that's with the display on, setting on fine-large, flash on, and having the camera on between shots like I just don't care) and the flash re-charges faster than non-rechargables! I can't believe more people don't know about Sanyo's rebuilt Nickel Cadmium rechargeable. I hated rechargeable batteries until I found these. Now I only hate all other rechargeables. They hold a charge for MONTHS and last in devices for MONTHS. Duracell and that damn bunny can take a flying leap at a rolling donut, I'll keep my Eneloops.
      • voodoozombie, on 06/21/2008, -1/+1Oh yeah, any article about rechargeable batteries that doesn't mention Eneloop is crap. Google them and read for yourself.
    • hogrod, on 06/21/2008, -0/+1Rayovac and Duracell both have these new "hybrid" type batteries now also. Most common rechargeable batteries loose up to 1% of their charge a day, hybrids can hold 75% of their charge after 1 year.

  • Jovensdesciple, on 06/21/2008, -12/+1No, but gay people say they are. Is Algore retarded??? Yes, but gay people say he isn't. Why do gay people get the final word on everything... other than because normal Americans seem to like to get down on their knees for gays whenever they can.
    • Echosphere, on 06/21/2008, -0/+4I think you need to see a professional therapist.
  • teamparadox, on 06/21/2008, -1/+6Ive been using the same 2 AA Duracell rechargeable batteries in my 360 controller since its launch. They are the kind that charge in 15 min. They used to last about 25ish hours in the controller and now they are down to about 7 but think of all the money I have saved. Consider I play a game everyday for at least an hour and if im all alone ill play all day on the weekend. They get lots of use.

    I know i could buy the battery pack but why when these take 15 min to charge and they have proven their longevity to me. I remember when it used to take 24 hours to charge some AA batteries back in the 80's...man did that make owning a RC car a nightmare when I was about 6. I could play with it for 30 min a day and that was it.

    Ahh well long story short. Yes they are that great.
    • ExRe, on 06/21/2008, -0/+1My dad probably went through dozens of the cheap generic brand AA batteries with all the use he gets out of our 360. He finally bought a couple more rechargeable battery packs for himself though. Those rechargeable battery packs are definitely worth the price (and if you check around you can find them at a steal since older colors are on clearance).
  • jimbo92107, on 06/21/2008, -7/+1Get rechargeables that are rated as "ultra-low discharge." They're totally phat. They're crack. They're da bomb. They're the phat crack bomb. Here's a long string of characters that will miraculously jump you to where you can buy such things:

    http://thomasdistributing.com/shop/batteries--nimh ...

    Check out the price of those groovy Kodaks. My palms are sweating like my first date...with a strange new hooker!
  • dcstriker, on 06/21/2008, -2/+3It's like saying: "is a car that can refuel more than once really great?"
  • SeymourAsses, on 06/21/2008, -8/+0Pfft....
    batteries are just going to get phased out when they build a high temperature superconductor anyway.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-temperature_supe ...
    It can go 'round a circuit forever with no loss of power!
    • Rockonthelawn, on 06/21/2008, -0/+1Haha....the devices you are using draws power and uses it. A superconductor would not supply infinite energy.
  • Sponky, on 06/21/2008, -1/+7I'm all for rechargable batteries but that article is woeful:

    "Not only will you save money, but you will be taking advantage of renewable energy."

    Only if your electricity grid is supplied by renewables like solar or hydro. I think the point here should be reduce and reuse rather than renewable.

    "And lithium is a natural metal therefore available in great quantities."

    As opposed to all the unnatural metals we use in batteries that are very rare. WTF? Are we using transuranium elements in household batteries now?
    • jerbaker, on 06/21/2008, -1/+2Hey, nickel and hydrogen are very rare don't you know?
  • CalcProgrammer1, on 06/21/2008, -2/+1I have 16 Energizer AA 2200mAh-2500mAh (4 2200's came with my 15 minute charger, but to get more they only had 2500's). These things work great in my Canon PowerShot A520 camera. Since my PDA is my primary portable media center, and it's internal battery doesn't last more than a few hours with the screen on and less than an hour with everything (wifi, bluetooth, full CPU, playing movies) on, I built a circuit that would take 8AA batteries and charge my PDA with it. Now I use my NiMH batteries all the time for charging my PDA and powering my camera.
  • bigsteve3OOO, on 06/21/2008, -7/+1in college i dated the slut who need a fork truck battery to power the toys that she used. d cells need not apply.
  • ronaldmonster, on 06/21/2008, -2/+1This is pretty self explanatory.
  • thewump, on 06/21/2008, -3/+21.2 volts doesn't go very far in a modern digital device.
    • Pixelpaws, on 06/21/2008, -0/+1How many devices use just one battery? Every device I have uses at least two, with the sole exception of my alarm clock.
      • Sponky, on 06/21/2008, -0/+1Also switch mode boost converters can be designed with efficiencies approaching 95% that are more than capable of converting 1.2V to 3.6V or 5V.

        The only mitigating factors with these systems are the energy density (not voltage) of the cell and the extra space on the circuit board required.
      • CalcProgrammer1, on 06/21/2008, -0/+0My Microsoft Wireless Optical Notebook Mouse 4000 uses just 1 AA battery, lasts forever on 1 battery, and works in Linux as well as Windows. Some devices can work very well off of one battery. My old MP3 player (RCA Lyra 64MB) used just 1 AAA battery. A lot of devices (my camera, Wiimotes, 360 controllers) only use 2. Very few devices (apart from those you build yourself, like my PDA charger) use more than 2. Usually they'll use a custom Li-Ion battery in modern devices that would require more than 2 AA's.
    • jerbaker, on 06/21/2008, -0/+1Name one.
    • UezeU, on 06/21/2008, -0/+1You have no idea what you are talking about. The voltage has nothing to do with capacity.
  • Dysarthria, on 06/21/2008, -1/+10A few points to bring sanity to this argument:

    1) Li-ion rechargeable batteries are not available in most AA, AAA, C, or D cells.

    2) "Lithium is a natural metal" is a ***** statement. Uranium is a natural metal too. Lithium is a documented toxic substance, and in its pure form explodes on contact with water.

    3) Lithium batteries have the potential to explode if incorrectly manufactured or charged incorrectly.

    4) Deeply discharging lithium batteries shortens their lifespan (that's why my original Li battery from my smartphone dies in 6 hrs now).

    5) With all their problems, there is no beating properly charged lithium-ion rechargeable batteries in photographic, computer and (if you're into it) radio-control applications.

    6) Given the price of NIMH rechargeables, their lower mA storage capacity, and the time it takes to properly charge them, I find it much more convenient to buy a few dozen cheap, no-name brand alkalines for the cost of 4 batteries +charger.

    7) NiCad's are going the way of the dinosaur, their only advantage is that they can be charged quickly (if you know what you're doing). Avoid at all costs.
    • kwamaking, on 06/21/2008, -0/+3Hit the nail on the head, bravo.
    • Pixelpaws, on 06/21/2008, -0/+1Get a set of fast-recharging NiMH batteries. I have a Rayovac set from ages ago that's rated at 2300 mAh, good enough for about 120 pictures in my digital camera. They also recharge to full in fifteen minutes; they take significantly less than that if they still have a partial charge. I can recharge them in less time than it would take to use them up. And at $12 for a pack of four, it's the same price as a box of 24 AAs that might last me for one weekend if I'm taking a lot of pictures on a vacation.
      • Dysarthria, on 06/21/2008, -0/+1Well, listen I know 120 pics sounds like a lot to some folks, but with modern digital cameras that won't do. Leaving the camera on for >5 minutes, trying to take video, flash, and LCD use kills you battery life so fast its just crazy to use anything but single-use lithium or rechargeable Li-On batteries.

        On my 1st generation digital rebel, the battery is good for 400 shots - and that is a much larger camera.

        In my circa 2002 Kodak easy-share (the digital have left that even takes AA batteries), NiMH last 20 shots or so, alkies get me up to 50, but single use lithium AA's from Energizer last 200 shots.
      • jj2me, on 06/21/2008, -0/+0You don't have to use specially-marked "fast recharge" batteries, if your fast charger has a fan (you can hear it'll start up noisy). Keeping the batteries from overheating during recharging is the key. I have a Duracell 30-minute charger, and use it for all NiMH batteries, whether or not the batteries are labelled as 30-minute or 15-minute. Never had a problem in the last two years, all batteries still charging fine.
    • krnldmp, on 06/21/2008, -0/+1I just wanna let you know that no new battery technology has exceeded existing NiCd types for peak discharge energy capability per mass (except maybe a flooded lead acid starting battery, but their total energy capacity is very poor) nor overall charge efficiency, which can reach 80%.

      So they're likely to hang around for quite a while.
      • wolfkeeper, on 06/21/2008, -0/+1NiCd's are high current, but their capacity is otherwise very poor, and they're toxic, so they're a pain to dispose of correctly (you're NOT supposed to put them in the trash). And they're not particularly hardy- if you overcharge them they die relatively quickly. They also fade very suddenly when they're run out of charge which is horrible for say, bicycle lights.

        NiMh are non toxic and you can just dump them in the trash, when they finally die, with a clear conscience. They've got several times the capacity of NiCds for most applications and they take abuse better. NiMhs are drop in replacements for standard dry cells. They also don't vent and burn like lithium can.

        Most applications just don't need such high current in my experience to make up for the disadvantages of NiCds and the extra capacity and environmental considerations and ease of use of NiMh are significantly better.
        • krnldmp, on 06/21/2008, -0/+1Ya, Bud. Yer preachin to the choir but I suppose if anyone else reads this they'll get a brainfull on batteries.

          Probably the one application that will singlehandedly keep NiCds with their high discharge rate in business for the forseeable while is the RC vehicle/aricraft hobby. The run time may be short, but its a blast so long. Also, you may wanna reconsider sending nickel in NiMH technology to the landfill. Its not as toxic as cadmium but its still not yer friend and its expensive enough to be valuable to recycle.
      • Dysarthria, on 06/21/2008, -0/+1I know. They can also be charged at sick rates, like 10 x their mAh rating. The problem is they're heavy and don't hold a charge well. In my hobby of RC aircraft, they are still used for some applications (hotliners), but in general their weight and poor storage has driven the hobby to lithium, and its for the best.
    • CalcProgrammer1, on 06/21/2008, -0/+0I have an Energizer 15 Minute NiMH charger and 16 batteries, they charge quickly and provide tons of power for my camera, charging my PDA, or whatever else I may need them for.
    • khyberkitsune, on 06/21/2008, -0/+1On statements numbers 3 and 4, this is not true of newer lithium-polymer batteries. On statement number 2, it doesn't explode. Sodium will. Lithium bubbles and heats up REALLY fast, which ignites the hydrogen it produces as it gets really hot and vaporizes water. Lithium in a contained environment subjected to high temperatures will cause the casing to rupture, yes. I've seen plenty a lithium fire working the laptop repair lines, had to operate many a class-d extinguisher.

      I have a 15-minute NIMH charger. yes, it does charge in 15 minutes. The batteries last quite a while, as well. My digital camera and wireless guitar transmitter do not need worry about not having power.
    • Myholyleg, on 06/21/2008, -0/+1There's another problem with Li-ion batteries. Their lifespan is dependent on their manufacturing date (not usage) and last for about 3 years.

      Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium_ion#Disadvant ...
  • seltaeb4, on 06/21/2008, -10/+4In truth, I'm about as eco as they come. But here are two things:

    1. Rechargeable batteries: absolute crap. I tried them once years ago when I heard how great they were, ecologically and economically. Big mistake: not only were they expensive as hell, but the working life of these rechargeables was FAR shorter than you'd except even in the worst, cheapest, no-name batteries you'd find, even in a Wal-Mart discount dumpster.

    A few years later, believing everyone who said, "yeah, that was then, but the technology is so much better now!" No it isn't. For a second time, I laid out over $100 for a very well-regarded manufacturer's recharging unit and a range of their batteries. In short: I got screwed a second time.

    2. Compact fluorescents. I know they save lots of carbon/money/energy. I tried them out, too. The trouble is, the quality of the light is abysmal and morgue-like, just like in any office building. Worse, the flicker and glare give me headaches, and I can HEAR the buzz of the lights—so any attempts to concentrate are futile.

    "But no!," people said again. "Those were the *first-generation* compacts. Try again! They're color-corrected now, and no more buzzing!"

    *****.

    Also, I'm responsible with my light use: I turn them off when I'm not in the room. Flourescent bulbs are meant to be turned on and left on until they die. Try turning off fluourescent lights on and off as freqently as incandescents—within six months you'll find you paid $15.00 for a useless bulb, as frequent on/off switching destroys the ballast, and your new "eco light" is useless and bound for the garbage.

    The problem: I'm *into* the cause.

    What do you think people who *aren't* ecologically minded will think and do when THEY get burned for a few hundred, by listening to bad advice on batteries and lightbulbs?

    They're not going to believe anything said about greener products, because they have been lied to about their quality, durability, and superiority. Can you blame them?




    • jerbaker, on 06/21/2008, -0/+7"the working life of these rechargeables was FAR shorter than you'd except even in the worst, cheapest, no-name batteries you'd find, even in a Wal-Mart discount dumpster."

      You're either an idiot or a liar. You can objectively measure the truth of this statement by placing a rechargeable battery on a meter and running it dead and repeating with an alkaline. Result? 2700 mah NiMH rechargeable, about 3 watt-hours of power. Alkaline, about 0.9 watt-hours. That's not an opinion, that's an objective fact. I run a professional 5-watt hand-held radio for 10 days at a time on 9 rechargeable AA batteries. My life could depend on that radio, and there has never been an issue with battery life.

      "The trouble is, the quality of the light is abysmal and morgue-like, just like in any office building. Worse, the flicker and glare give me headaches"

      You do know that you can purchase compact fluorescent bulbs in many different colors like 3000K and 6500K (which are identical to incandescent and sunlight respectively)? You must be a superman if you can see flickering in a compact fluorescent bulb. Most people can't see the flicker of a cathode ray tube at an 80 Hz refresh rate, but you claim you can see a 20,000 Hz refresh?

      "within six months you'll find you paid $15.00 for a useless bulb"

      Why are you paying $15 for a bulb when you can get a pack of 8 for about $11?

      "What do you think people who *aren't* ecologically minded will think and do when THEY get burned for a few hundred, by listening to bad advice on batteries and lightbulbs?"

      They're not getting burned, they're idiots.
      • seltaeb4, on 06/21/2008, -2/+1Jerbaker, Jerbaker, Jerbaker...

        THIS is what pisses me off.

        I post my honest experiences with these products, and am immediately derided by some self-superior smartass as "either an idiot or a liar."

        Of course, I'm a big guy and can take it. But others will hear the snideness and snottiness in your remarks, and so not even bother to TRY changing their behaviors.

        Ask yourself this, Jerbaker: say a man (and certainly a less "enlightened" man than yourself) walks into a hardware store and buys all of this expensive, non-returnable stuff. Then, he finds all of these products are not only unsatisfactory, but WORSE than useless, even for his most simple needs. And, when he mentions it casually in a discussion forum, he is automatically branded "an idiot or a liar."

        Do you see how PATRONIZING that is? Way to serve the cause, Jerbaker...

        This guy could have spent the money on diapers for the baby, a birthday present for his wife, his oldest's college fund, maybe a decent power drill to use at his job—but he wants to do SOMETHING for the environment, and so spends a lot of money on a product that is just NOT ready for prime time, save for rabid cheerleaders... and you call him "an idiot or a liar" because of it.

        And all he's really done is fall for your *****: that these products, at a minimum 300% premium, will actually work not only as well as the cheap, standard, "dirty" version, but will in fact be far superior.

        And you're pissed at him, because be BELIEVED your overzealous sales pitch... you've basically screwed some guy as badly as a used-car dealer would, and worse still, you've done it anonymously. The guy's only *real* problem? He believed you, ponied up the cash, and is now stuck with expensive, inferior goods that you promised him would be superior in every way. Why are *you* mad at *him*? Please explain this, if you're able...

        Attitudes like yours are why many people [NOT MYSELF] don't feel the slightest pang of guilt or conscience when pouring used motor oil into a storm drain. In fact, it gives many of the "Joe-Sixpack" crowd *pleasure* to know they are pissing off people just like you, with your "greener than the peasantry" attitude, and so the fish in the ocean be damned. Is that the result either of us seek, Jerbaker?

        Moreover, Jerbaker, you clearly need to do some research on epilepsy and fluorescent lights before you go declaring to the Universe that fluorescent flicker is undetectable. But, to save you the trouble:

        Most people who suffer from epilepsy generally DO NOT like to pay 500% more for an inferiorly-performing light bulb that has the additional possible bonus of sending them into a grand mal seizure in which they may bite their own damned tongue off (that is, if they don't suffocate by aspirating it first.)

        But if you'd care to send me some nice new rechargeable batteries and a charger so I can see what an "idiot or liar" I am, please do. I'll pay you back 200% of the purchase price and refund your shipping expenses if they perform to my satisfaction. How's that for a deal, pal? Feel like putting your money where your mouth is? If not, kindly STFU.

        Ah... the Sound of Silence.

        • jerbaker, on 06/21/2008, -0/+2"Say a man walks into a hardware store and buys all of this expensive, non-returnable stuff."

          Why are you buying stuff from a place that will not refund defective merchandise?

          "This guy could have spent the money on diapers for the baby, a birthday present for his wife, his oldest's college fund, maybe a decent power drill to use at his job—but he wants to do SOMETHING for the environment"

          Actually, buy purchasing rechargeable batteries and CFLs, he's saving money. It's by NOT purchasing these that he's wasting his money. Don't frame it as some poor guy spending extra money to help the environment. That's not the case here.

          "the cheap, standard, "dirty" version, but will in fact be far superior."

          It will not. That's an objective fact. Non-rechargeable batteries are inferior in every way except the case where you want to store them for years on end without using them and have them still charged up and ready to go.

          "you've basically screwed some guy as badly as a used-car dealer would"

          See the part about saving money with rechargeables and CFLs. Don't give me a sob story about me being a dick for talking someone into saving money.

          "Attitudes like yours are why many people [NOT MYSELF] don't feel the slightest pang of guilt or conscience when pouring used motor oil into a storm drain."

          I can't help the juvenile, immature nature of most people. That they would let my attitude cause them to behave against their own principles says a lot about the strength of their character.

          "you clearly need to do some research on epilepsy and fluorescent lights"

          Do you mean like this? *The effects of fluorescent lighting on the EEGs of 20 patients with photosensitive epilepsy have been studied. In no patient did the 100-Hz flicker of normally functioning tubes elicit paroxysmal activity.* - http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/499117

          Please don't argue from feelings. It wastes everybody's time. You get some people who are ignorant of these technologies to believe they are inferior and pass them up when, in fact, you are just wrong.
        • seltaeb4, on 06/28/2008, -0/+1So are you sending the batteries?
    • th3heretic, on 06/21/2008, -0/+3"They're not getting burned, they're idiots." Like the original post.
    • krnldmp, on 06/21/2008, -1/+3The business of using compact fluorescent lights successfuly is yet a little more complicated in some cases than their incandescent or halogen counterparts. First you have to fiddle with making sure you are buying a properly made product that has large enough filter capacitors to smooth out the line ripple so there is no flicker, then the ballast converter has to make no audio band acoustic noise, then you have to buy the best color temperature offered for the application and arrange for the right lampshape material or other surfaces close to the light source so that you don't select something colored very close to the three different phosphorescence peaks generated by the tube, or it will probably look like *****.

      If you got your CFLs at Walmart, you probably ***** up already.

      But the technology works very well if you know what
      you are doing and are willing to do it.
      • krnldmp, on 06/21/2008, -0/+1I also wanted to add that good CFLs probably have at least 4 different phosphors, not three.
      • mareksoon, on 06/21/2008, -1/+1Dang, with all of that thought put into choosing a CFL, when the government crams CFL's down our throats, we can legitimately ask how many engineers it takes to change a CFL lightbulb.

        I sometimes wonder what the ecological impact is of the damn blister-pack plastic these CFL's are sold in ... OFTEN only one at a time, compared to the cardboard boxes used for traditional bulbs which usually have two, four, or more. With the negative publicity bottled water is getting right now (a lifetime in a landfill), where is all of the plastic CFL packaging going to go? Do we buy more because they look better on display?

        Finally, why can't they make them easier to open without slicing a finger? Do they WANT us to destroy the packaging to we can't return it when we buy one that hums or has poor light output or takes forever to warm up?

        Okay, I'm done with my CFL rant buried within the rechargeable battery thread. ;)
      • jerbaker, on 06/21/2008, -0/+1"First you have to fiddle with making sure you are buying a properly made product that has large enough filter capacitors to smooth out the line ripple so there is no flicker, then the ballast converter has to make no audio band acoustic noise, then you have to buy the best color temperature offered for the application and arrange for the right lampshape material or other surfaces close to the light source so that you don't select something colored very close to the three different phosphorescence peaks generated by the tube, or it will probably look like *****."

        You could spend all day looking for that information, or you could just buy one and exchange it for a different brand if it sucks.
    • Brian48216, on 06/21/2008, -0/+1"For a second time, I laid out over $100 for a very well-regarded manufacturer's recharging unit and a range of their batteries. In short: I got screwed a second time."
      Dude- you're just a sucker if you paid anything over $50 for a "battery charger"

      Hell, the 15 min rechargers for my 2500mAh nimh energizers was $30 for the charger and 4 batteries
      • CalcProgrammer1, on 06/21/2008, -0/+1I have those same Energizers, they are awesome! Last forever in my camera (which burns through Alkaline batteries in just a few shots [I'm one to use the screen and flash a lot though]). I also use them to charge/run my PDA with a converter thing I made, runs it for hours, good for long trips.
    • AmericansRevolt, on 06/21/2008, -0/+0'tarded
  • kwamaking, on 06/21/2008, -1/+2Nickel Cadmium and Nickel Metal Hydride batteries are actually the same voltage, nominal voltage being 1.2 volts.
    NiMH batteries are known for higher capacities, but discharge at a much higher rate than the NiCd.

    Lithium Ion batteries are not sold in a cell form and cannot be transported or shipped legally, this is why cellphone batteries, pda's, and the Lithium Polymer batteries come in the prismatic pallets. It is true though, rechargeable is certainly the way to go.
  • Ex3poo, on 06/21/2008, -6/+1I prefer buying the valuepack of energizer batterys at Cosco
    • jerbaker, on 06/21/2008, -1/+2That's because you're bad at math, have a poor understanding of ROI, and manage your money poorly.
  • XternalHD, on 06/21/2008, -6/+3DUMB ***** QUESTION.
  • TheShom, on 06/21/2008, -7/+2Yeah, my wife uses rechargeable batteries for her "toys" whenever i go on a business trip.
  • skunkmere, on 06/21/2008, -3/+0rechargeable is the way to go.
  • hollyminkowski, on 06/21/2008, -2/+2I have good luck with Lithium Ion packs.

    The Lithium Ion in my handheld ham talkie has a great lifetime.
    I also have a NIMH pack for it but it is not as good.

    Nicads are crap.
  • fuzzynyanko, on 06/21/2008, -2/+1I have had good luck with NiMH batteries. I don't use them in digital camera, but I use them for Wiimotes and 360 controllers, and they work very well. I have a 1-hour charger that automatically shuts off, that also helps extend battery life. I had bad luck with Rayovac NiMH batteries, but Duracell, Energizer, and even the Wal-mart brand all work well for me.
  • odinfire, on 06/21/2008, -5/+1Yeah, I tried rechargeable batteries in my "toys" once. I got halfway through my business and the damn things crapped out.

    Nope... back to the old alkalines... MUCH more satisfying.
  • m1ss1ontomars, on 06/21/2008, -1/+2This article is full of crap.

    "And lithium is a natural metal therefore available in great quantities."

    As opposed to the other materials listed, which are...? Natural metals as well; how about that? Nickel is by far the most abundant element listed; cadmium is slightly behind lithium.

    Alkaline rechargeables aren't mentioned either.

    And yes, rechargeable batteries of all kinds are indeed "that great". Who cares if they don't last as long per charge as an equivalent alkaline battery? They're far more convenient. You never have to leave your house to get new batteries; just keep some spares around and pop the used ones in the charger.
  • ImperatorSices, on 06/21/2008, -1/+1NiCd is *****. They have "memory" issues, and if you don't use a discharge it prior to charging and you don't use a smart charger, you'll end up either under or over charging the battery, thus significantly reducing its capacity. This is just from experience with airsoft guns, but I find NiMH batteries to be much more reliable, and you don't have to worry about discharging them. Lithium batteries are great too, but as mentioned above, there's always a risk of fire if you charge them incorrectly.
    • krnldmp, on 06/21/2008, -0/+1The "memory" effect in NiCds is more of a problem related to early charge termination and only significantly occurs when the early termination is repeated at exactly the same charge % many times, so its unlikely that you've ever actually experienced it and its developed into more of an urban myth than something that plagues performance for the technology. However, crappy chargers can kill any battery.
      • wolfkeeper, on 06/21/2008, -0/+1I've found NiCds tend to die more quickly than NiMhs though, They just aren't as hardy as NiMhs.
  • nemojonze, on 06/21/2008, -2/+1*all babies must eat* category
  • anewname, on 06/21/2008, -2/+2$12.99? Man, we're getting ripped off in Canada.
  • willster580, on 06/21/2008, -1/+2To be honest, I just got them because I was tired of having to get new batteries for my 360 controller every week. Apparently I did good by the environment too though.
  • crazzy88ss, on 06/21/2008, -0/+2I haven't purchased batteries in ~2 years. Rechargeable batteries ARE that great.
  • DLtheRMX, on 06/21/2008, -0/+1The title of this got me confused, I've known rechargeable batteries were great for years and I thought maybe there was something that I didn't know about them in this....
  • JK1150, on 06/21/2008, -1/+1http://revver.com/video/273889/hey-hammer/
  • PeninsulaBoy217, on 06/21/2008, -0/+2"And lithium is a natural metal therefore available in great quantities. "
    All metals are natural, dipsh*t.
    (Well, except for Plutonium & above, but now we're splitting hairs.) What about iron & copper? Are they artificially manufactured? I think not. In fact, copper is more natural since it can be found in a native state!
  • osama1234, on 06/21/2008, -1/+0This guy reaches the correct conclusions, but they're all based on false/incorrect information.
    1) NiCD has the same voltage potentiol as NiMh, but obviously less than lithium; but i mean if that's an issue you can put 3 cells in series and get almost the same voltage

    2)NiMH require more charges? WHAT? If two batteries are of the same capacity, they'll need to be charged/discharge the exact same number of times to deliver some amount of charge. Another point that is against him, is the fact that NiMH batteries of the same physical size as NiCD will hold almost 1.5 times as much charge, so if anything, NiMH require less charges.

    3) 'stores more energy' WHAT? the amount of energy stored is based on the size of the battery, not the chemistry (lithium). For example A NiMH F cell will hold significantly more energy than a modern cell phone lithium battery. Lithium aren't really that much different from an environmental point of view.

    So yes, great message (i would argue its obvious from an economic point of view and also environmental), but its all based on the wrong assumptions
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