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Archaeology's most famous unsolved mystery declared a hoax

entertainment.timesonline.co.u… — Some say that its 45 mysterious symbols are a magical inscription, a piece of ancient music or a poem, or perhaps the world's oldest example of punctuation. But now an American scholar believes that the markings on the Phaistos Disc, one of archaeology's most famous unsolved mysteries, mean nothing at all — because the disc is a hoax.

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  • yourbrokenoven, on 07/12/2008, -6/+36never heard of this
    • chilipeppers4u, on 07/13/2008, -1/+16The Phaistos disk is taken very seriously in Anthropology and Linguistics. It's in any major university textbook on classical (Greek/Roman) Archaeology or on the development of writing systems, and is used as the only evidence of an ancient undeciphered script - one of the few undeciphered scripts left that are known to Archaeologists. If true this is huge news - on the same scale as the piltdown man hoax
      • cannibaljp, on 07/13/2008, -0/+6Totally agree with the Piltdown Man comparison. My wife got her degree in Anthropology with a focus in Linguistics, she's going to FREAK if this ends up panning out as a fraud.
      • gn0stik, on 07/13/2008, -0/+5I don't see how it can pan out as a fraud when they won't even test it's age, scientifically. I have to say though, his "Smooth edge, and even firing" argument is a bit weak. First off, the smooth edge thing could easily be explained away as an idiosyncrasy of the artist who made it, and he can't density test it so he's guessing about the even firing thing. Not to mention, in greek pottery only daily use things, the most common were accidentally fired. Greeks had kilns and knew how to use them, the real question is, did they have them in 1700 bce.
      • theodenking, on 07/13/2008, -0/+3It's also a big deal because you could describe it as the earliest example of movable type (the markings were made with pre-made stamps). It's a big what-if moment, if things have gone differently we might have had printing presses three millennia earlier.
      • Petrushka72, on 07/13/2008, -0/+1@gn0stik:
        Pottery gets fired because you can't use it to store things in if it's still soft gloopy clay. People certainly had access to fire in the early Bronze Age, so yes they could fire any clay object they wanted to.

        But clay tablets were *never* intentionally fired, because you wouldn't be able to write on them any more. Most (all?) clay tablets with writing that have been found are ones that were fired by accident, usually because they got hot when a city was being burned to the ground around them.

        As for others' comments about the importance of this if it is actually a hoax: it's not *that* important. Piltdown Man was important because it challenged a lot of ideas about the evolution of humans. The Phaistos disk has never challenged anything in particular; it's always just existed in a vacuum. The only problem it raised was that it suggested that there was this writing system around in the mid Bronze Age, but which survives in one, and only one, example, which is . Most linguists should be relieved if it is a hoax, as it's always been rather inconvenient.
      • gn0stik, on 07/13/2008, -0/+1Petrushka, perhaps clay tablets were not, but if it were a work of art, say, a poem, or some kind of inspirational saying, or song, or words of national signigicance, it definitely would have been fired.

        It's form does not lend itself, after all, in it's spiral form to some kind of simple note taking tablet.
    • DiggzDE, on 07/13/2008, -1/+6You, my friend, are no Indiana Jones.
    • LeeSoong, on 07/13/2008, -3/+1It's a star chart, duh.

      Silly armatures can't read Ancient.
  • btschul, on 07/13/2008, -13/+36The disc is a lie.
  • chrissku, on 07/13/2008, -5/+53Next their gonna try telling us that Indiana Jones wasn't based on a true story.
  • Texmurphy01, on 07/13/2008, -3/+15Hey, it's a total hoax. Now since it's worthless and all, I suppose buying it for ten bucks would be me doing you a favour, right?
  • cdbeshore, on 07/13/2008, -24/+4made the front page with 96 diggs. is that some kind of record?
    • toxicityj, on 07/13/2008, -0/+15I'm pretty sure we all stopped bitching about things getting to the frontpage with low diggs like 2 months ago. but by all means, keep going...
      • jisrael, on 07/13/2008, -0/+1yeah, now it's cool to bitch how many diggs something got without ever making it to the front page...
  • kosmoss, on 07/13/2008, -4/+26Declared as hoax and approved by Tom Cruise.
    • AchaIemoipas, on 07/13/2008, -4/+0"I'll just have to create another reality, hahahahahahaa! In which the disk is not a hoax! I can fly! It's like wooooooooshh!! WOW!
  • vinceislegend, on 07/13/2008, -3/+36It's a cake recipe.
    • daRoach, on 07/13/2008, -3/+5Auf ein gefettetes Backblech legen und
      Bei zweihundert Grad fur funfzehn Minuten backen und
      KEINE EIER
      • Danby123, on 07/13/2008, -0/+2Pardon?
      • drouk1556, on 07/13/2008, -0/+4Loosely: Put it on a greased metal sheet and bake at 200 degrees for (some amount) of minutes, NO EGGS.
      • Danby123, on 07/14/2008, -0/+1^. Prove it.
    • tiktock, on 07/13/2008, -3/+1The cake is a lie
    • punkcat, on 07/13/2008, -0/+1How to Serve Man
    • X9001, on 07/14/2008, -0/+1No, an aol disk
  • migshark, on 07/13/2008, -5/+15Limited if not speculatory evidence. It's common for narcissistic people to question a question if they can't answer it. I'm not saying it's not possible, but when the findings are conclusive is when I'd like to hear about it.
    • scabbers, on 07/13/2008, -6/+3Did you read the article? The museum won't let people date it... things that make you go HMmmmmmmmmmm.
      • Defuser, on 07/13/2008, -5/+0They won't let them test it because it's fall apart if exposed to the air. It's a clay tablet, after all. But really, the bigger question is: who cares? I've never understood the kind of relentless Killjoys who seem to have no other goal in life than to "disprove" things. It's not like the disc claims to contain any sort of religious, political, or scientific information. It's a decorative plate that most of us have never heard of prior to today. The sum total of human existence wouldn't be altered one tiny bit if this disc were proven to be a "forgery"... but that itself begs the question: "A forgery of WHAT?"
      • theodenking, on 07/13/2008, -0/+5@Defuser
        Yeah clay isn't that fragile. That's why we're always digging it out of the ground.
    • gordoncam1, on 07/13/2008, -0/+6I expect we won't get an answer until the next generation of caretakers are willing to have it tested; maybe not even then. Would we want to have our meal ticket declared a hoax?
    • AQMessiah, on 07/13/2008, -1/+7As a student of Archaeology I completely agree. So far the only evidence that was presented was that the script is undecipherable which falls in line with many ancient written languages. If there was a stamp on the back that said "made by Luigi Pernier" I'd get it but just because we can't decipher its meanings doesn't mean its a fake.
      • Niightwitch, on 07/13/2008, -3/+1As a Student of Pie, I concur.
      • theodenking, on 07/13/2008, -1/+3Did you read the article? There's also the anomalous firing. It's not conclusive, but the fact that this piece was purposely fired when other similar artefacts haven't been at least warrants further investigation.
  • aqzman, on 07/13/2008, -10/+1What's with the comments, some kind of reverse graveyard?
  • davidjunit, on 07/13/2008, -6/+9Can't they just carbon date the damn thing or find out what it's made of already?
    • migshark, on 07/13/2008, -1/+11If you read the article you'd know that the keepers of both artifacts refuse to do so. Ergo the man is listened to instead of being told to study more.
    • Defuser, on 07/13/2008, -1/+5No offense, but you clearly don't understand what "carbon dating" is, or does. Carbon Dating can't be used on this type of material.
    • theodenking, on 07/13/2008, -0/+5You can't carbon-date earthenware (you can carbon-date particles on it, but since this wasn't a food container that doesn't apply), the article talks about TL dating which the Museum won't allow.
    • rajkalex, on 07/13/2008, -1/+3There is at least some money in keeping it an unknown artifact rather than a proven fake.
  • SpiritOfRock, on 07/13/2008, -4/+28It's been studied for 45 years, one guy says it's a hoax, and now it's front-page news?
    • rubbertoes, on 07/13/2008, -1/+1Digg is hardly limited to front-page news
  • Ransack, on 07/13/2008, -8/+9Why shouldnt this be on the front page? Dugg because least its not related to Iphone, Obama or Lego Starwars.
  • KostisGR, on 07/13/2008, -7/+5Screw the Phaistos disc, the Astrolabe of Antikythira is what's all about :p
  • adjustafresh, on 07/13/2008, -5/+24"Archaeology's most famous unsolved mystery"???

    Shroud of Turin anyone? How about Stonehenge? I've never heard of the Phaistos Disc.
    • daRoach, on 07/13/2008, -1/+8I thought the Antikythera mechanism was more mysterious.
    • Rotzooi, on 07/13/2008, -3/+9Well, if YOU have never heard of it, it must not be famous.
      Thank you, drive through.
    • sum33t, on 07/13/2008, -4/+2I thought the digg effect was the most famous unsolved mystery
    • y0y0howsdajell0, on 07/13/2008, -0/+2Then you obviously haven't heard about many famous archaeological mysteries...Jared Diamond talks about the Phaistos Disc for a long time in "Guns, Germs and Steel"...
    • LilRabbitFooFoo, on 08/11/2008, -0/+3Shroud of Turin - proved a fake decades ago from thread samples which dated it to the middle ages. Since the image has always looked like a white European man from the middle ages, I'm not sure why ANYONE ever actually believed it was the burial shroud of a dark skinned Jewish man from the first century. Ahem. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shroud_of_turin

      Stonehenge - Has served many different purposes over thousands of years. But primarily it is a burial/cremation site, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stonehenge

      Antikythera mechanism - One of the world's oldest scientific instruments, for navigation via stars, etc. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antikythera_mechanism ...
  • e36wheelman, on 07/13/2008, -0/+10Most archaeologists already thought it was a little out of place in the scope of history. Jared Diamond talks about it with skepticism for almost half a chapter in Guns, Germs and Steel.
  • kevro, on 07/13/2008, -0/+6Jerome Eisenberg is a specialist in faked ancient art. What else is he going to see.
    • TetchyTony, on 07/13/2008, -0/+0To judge from Google, he has a fairly interesting history himself.
      • Petrushka72, on 07/13/2008, -1/+1What do you mean? He curates some art galleries in the UK and USA, he's written a book called "Art of the Ancient World: A Guide for the Collector and Investor", he collects antiquities, he returns artefacts to their native countries when he finds out they've been stolen. Nothing dodgy leaps out at me. What have you found?
  • Totz83, on 07/13/2008, -1/+3Well it's not a mystery any more, next up - "The Truth About Santa Claus"
  • slartibartphast, on 07/13/2008, -1/+2I think I can see wham-o on the edge.
  • Albumen, on 07/13/2008, -1/+2Upon this thread I say fie!
  • Spoomeister, on 07/13/2008, -1/+8So what, you're saying my Phaistos-format player is worthless now?
  • krypton70, on 07/13/2008, -2/+3Let me take a look at that... No? FAKE!
  • Key2gb, on 07/13/2008, -1/+5this changes everything

    ....
  • crayoncard, on 07/13/2008, -3/+3it does seem the Capitoline wolf would be more likely from the middle ages. other Etruscan sculptures are not nearly as sophisticated or even near the same style as that work. my art history professor would've died. and as far as the forged disc, at the moment it's all conjecture. good points are made but until the Greeks allow some research and testing its authenticity or lack there of is only in question, not decided.
    • Totz83, on 07/13/2008, -3/+2Im not the one that dugg you down, however your post made me fall asleep on numerous attempts I made at reading it.
  • sc0rpi0n, on 07/13/2008, -4/+4999.99 out of 1000 people never heard about this most famous *****.
  • Alex2, on 07/13/2008, -1/+7'Shopped. Chiselmarks are all wrong.
  • Firespray1138, on 07/13/2008, -1/+3"These symbols...they're star constellations!"
  • neFariou5, on 07/13/2008, -2/+3Inaccurate. Article refers to it as ONE OF the most famous, not THE most famous.
    • crayoncard, on 07/13/2008, -0/+1agreed, its fame is relative to the observer. i am double majoring in physics and archeology and the fame of such an object is debatable as many archaeologists will consider one discovery more important than another and others will have completely different opinions
  • absurdist, on 07/13/2008, -0/+3http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voynich_manuscript

    Voynich Manuscript, anyone?
  • MadOgre, on 07/13/2008, -1/+1It's an ancient Rick Roll.
  • AzulBlanco, on 07/14/2008, -0/+0They threw up their hands and said "The heck with it, it's all gobbledygook"
  •  

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