What is Digg?52 Comments
- m85476585, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7"computer scientists and mathematicians"?
How about a guy with a stopwatch and a calculator to do some averages? - redpoint73, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5What would get people on the plane quicker, is if people stopped dicking around with their carry-ons and just sat the hell down. People are always trying to cram bags that are twice the size of the overhead compartment. Or they wander around the aisles endlessley because the compartments are all full. Just check your bags.
Or they mess around in the aisle taking their coats off. Find your seat and sit down. You have plenty of room in the seat to settle yourself. - Olle, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4I was in the military and when I board planes I keep thinking how fast it would be if done with military efficiency.
A single column marches all the way in and noone stops until the last person is at the end of the plane. Then everyone stops at a seat row and takes a seat to his left (or the right) and moves all the way in, maybe after stowing luggage.
Then the next wave comes in.
This should take not much longer than it would take for one person to walk the length of the plane six times and stowing his luggage six times. - ha$$le, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3It's just like a mathematician to miss the real problem. Who cares how long it takes to board a plane, how about the quickest way get get off the plane? That's the part I hate.
- jborg91, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3"It gets a LOT worse if you're a parent with a young child and want to sit together with the child."
I've flown Southwest during the Christmas rush with a small child. It totally rocked because if the kid is under 5 years old you get to board first. Which also means you are not getting bumped if they overbooked the flight. - buckaroo, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2psst.. here's a little secret.... always book seats as far back as possible. That way, you're on first, close to the bathroom, and you get to enjoy the bizarre hubbub of confused mammals fighting over seats, storage, and pillows. Flying with New Yorkers usually ups the ante a bit.
... And when it comes time to get off, it doesn't matter that you're last off the plane. They haven't started the baggage claim carousel yet.
Booking in the back also increases the chance that you'll get an empty seat next to you. - ptbarnett, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Southwest boards people in 3 groups, based on check-in time. Within your group, it's first-come, first-serve. Southwest estimates that it boards the plane at least 10 minutes faster, on average -- which is critical for their routing method which makes stops like a bus instead of a hub/spoke system that almost everyone else uses.
America West uses the "window seats first" methodology mentioned by the study. In theory, it works well. In practice, it's a nightmare because it means that each of a family of three that travel together and sit in the same row will board at separate times. - Cheile, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1One thing they're forgetting in their calculations is the time that passengers must stand in line _BEFORE_ the plane boards. Personally I don't think an hour or more of standing in line to get a seat + the time it takes to board is really faster than standing in line for no more than a minute or two + the time it takes to board.
- Cyberdactyl, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1First come first seat free-for-all sounds like a ready made recipe for some in-the-aisle cat fights.
- generalleoff, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Yea Southwest is a great example of this. Every time I fly them I always feel like I'm on a bus instead of a plane. They have a great safety record to and despite the incident of a few days ago I still think it's perfect cuz the fatality was not on the plane.
- ssaha, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Ask people to carry logically sized carry-on baggages which actually fit in the overhead bin, ask them to wait for the plane to reach cruising altitude before they decide to take a dump in the toilet or maybe use the one at the airport before they board the plane, be courteous and patient... now what do the computer scientists and mathematicians know about all this? Did these guys even venture out of their 4 walls?
- wilf_brim, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1The problem with all boarding plans is that one or two jerks who weigh 300 lbs and have a huge carry on can bollocks up even the best one.
I think that the Southwest "cattle herd" plan tends to minimize this, as the herd behind will either push said jerks aside, or trample them and toss their mutilated corpse off the back of the plane. - ithasacarb, on 01/07/2008, -0/+1To read this story in full you will need to login or make a payment
- raven001, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I agree with redpoint73. Check your bags or carry a SMALL carryon that you can stow under the seat. They shouldn't let people carry whale-sized bags onto the plane. And if you must carry a bag on the plane put it away quickly and stop blocking the aisle. Some people are just too damn slow, especially when the plane lands and you want to get off.
- drew138, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0The best proxy for efficiently loading a plane is the time it takes people to get off a plane when you are forced to exit by row and get your luggage out. No one wants to stay on the plane longer than needed. End of diggscussion.
- TridenTBoy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Oviously this is a faster way, but defently a more violent way. As I'm sure lots of people would love to have window views.
Also, you'd see lots of people Running :D - Olle, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Oh, assuming a plane that is six seats wide.
- chicagospur, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Boarding from the back would be a lot faster if people who sat nearer the front of the plane didn't jump the line just so they can grab the limited overhead bin space and fill it with their oversized bags and laptops.
As the back typically seats coach passengers and the front seats business and first class passengers (if there is a first class,) then blame the rich people or the ones who's company sprang for an upgrade. These people are also the ones who are more likely to get to the gate as the doors are closing and then spend 10 minutes walking up and down the plane to stow their two pieces of oversized hand luggage.
If everyone follows the rules then the plane would seat a lot quicker.
Better still, why don't the airlines place business and first class at the back of the plane. Oh yeah, I forgot, these are the same folks who just HAVE to get off the plane first too.
As a former frequent flyer (flying every week,) and who also flew business class nearly all of the time, I nearly always got to the airport on time, checked my bag and also took my time getting off the plane when we landed. Even taking account picking my bag up at the carousel, it was just as quick as rushing to the airport and not checking any bags. A lot less stressful too. - rolandog, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0This isn't necessarily true... if you put an obnoxious fat lady to block the rushing people, or if you have the average person pack his things in the upper compartiments, then you wouldn't have a speedy board.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Greyhound, and other inter-state bus lines, already do just that. As soon as the bus driver opens the door, everybody pours in and takes the first available seat.
However, there is a problem with this. If there are two people who want to sit together, they may not get the chance (if there are only single seats available in random rows). It gets a LOT worse if you're a parent with a young child and want to sit together with the child. THIS is why assigned seating is needed. You can't rely on passengers to be polite and give their seat to someone else. - jasonlyvers, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Um, this is queuing theory 101. Look it up on the wiki. Anyone who has taken any kind of management science (aka business school required class) should have been able to figure this one out. Common sense should overrule speed and efficiency, this won't work because of unpredictable variables (like crazy f-ers with 8 kids, or the dude that must be in his seat before everyone else because he's more important).
- ilikemonkeys, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0anyone that's ever flown Southwest before knows this is true. Cattle call rocks the hizouse!
"We are now boarding section 'A'" - .robert, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Algorithms just don't matter to me. Customer experience. I want to feel comfortable, relaxed and not shoved into a tube full of seats. Screw the exec who wants to shave off a few minutes. It saves them time, not us. The plane leaves on a schedule, not based on my ability to shove old ladies(which l'm pretty good at, actually)
- tristant, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0whats wrong with you people? you prefer the back? the front? the fire escapes in the middle is where it's at. extra leg room!
- SDNick484, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Well if we were going just by queueing theory, then boarding with SPT (shortest possible time) would be the fastest. SPT is when jobs arrive via a Poisson process, and process times are arbitry (so it's a M/G/1/infinite/SPT). Now you just board in order of shortest tasks (people who board fastest go first). Unfortunately it's impossible to know who will be fastest. The next fastest queue would be priority scheduling (Soutwest does a variation on this). This M/G/1/infinite/Pri would be even faster if they had more sub groups & allowed pre-emption (cutting in line by people with higher priority), unfortunately this doesn't fly well socially (people tend to like FCFS -- first come first serve). There are literally tons of other possible queueing models, many of which are tough to say which is fastest without plugging in at least some numbers (arrival rate, processing time's first & second moment, etc.). This is why it takes more than knowledge of "queueing theory 101" (esp. especially the version taught to Management Science undergrads) to determine what's the fastest.
- wazoo, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1And we care because....this site is going to the downward spiral that /. went in. so many fan boys and so many more useless stories.
- antiTRACE, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0@"computer scientists and mathematicians"?How about a guy with a stopwatch and a calculator to do some averages?
---Yeah, because they were running simulations that would otherwise take years if they did it your way. - andreo, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0The problem that I've always seen was with people that just can't seem to sit their ass in a seat. I normally fly Northwest and American. On the American flights you have the first class people that get to board first. I'm normally always in the second group. And no matter what there's always 3 or 4 people from the first class that hasn't managed to sit their asses down yet.
Yet I'm always able to get on board, put my carry-on under the seat, a small bag that contains my Ipod, phone, GPS, PDA, and other things that I may need for the trip that I would rather not have "misplaced" or broken, and sit down. In some cases I may take an extra 30 seconds to take off my coat or jacket and throw it into the overhead.
But leaving the plane is what takes the longest. Now I have to wait for all the boneheads in the front to "put themselves together" while they block the isle for the rest of the plane.
I almost wish the attendants could say to one of them "excuse me sir, let me help you with that". And grab their crap and throw it out into the jetway so the rest of the people on the plane could leave. Let them get dressed out there instead of blocking everyone else. - fallingstars, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0ptbarnett:
At most (if not all) airlines that use a segmented boarding system, groups travelling together are allowed to board in the lowest group. For example, you have seating 1, I have seating 2, and our friend has seating 3, we all board in seating 1. - snyy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0-m85476585
I like your unoriginal icon - ruxpin2, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0here is a crazy thought out of lets say 50 rows - board the back 25 through the back door (no pun intended) and the front 25 through the front. within those you can break it down like say board rows 20-25 and 26-31 at the same time and then 14-19/32-37 etc....
We exited a plane in mexico through front and back doors and I never left a plane so quickly... it was great! - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Just get a kid pass and you can sit down first...
- vypergts, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0I've never been on a flight that was delayed because it took passengers too long to board or deplane... I think most delays happen for other reasons which airlines should address first.
- imxianx, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0i dont care what anyone says, i like southwest. even when they used to hand out numbers. first come first served. and i hate the people that have a huge luggage and thier "personal items bag" is another huge bag.
i feel like a bad comedian "and what about this airline food".... - t3hX, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Oops, wrong tab. Sorry.
- t3hX, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0It's gone FFS!
- Bokista, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0"And what's with the razor blade slot in the bathroom? Are people actually shaving in there??"
- Nothlit, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0AirTran recently switched to boarding by staggered groups. First the rear of the plane, then the front, then the middle. I don't know how much it adds to efficiency, but it's interesting at least. The gate attendant claimed it speeds things up considerably, but I couldn't tell a difference.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0They've been doing this in Australia for over a year now on JetStar (Budget airline of Qantas) and it works fine. You don't need a mathematcian or scientist to tell you this! And it works because on a budget airline there is one class, economy, so no matter where you sit the seats are all the same.
- rolypolyman, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0When I flew United last spring (twice) they boarded FRONT TO BACK. If stupid stuff like that is SOP, then innovation like this is futile.
- ibis, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0For all the people saying "who cares" the answer is "a lot of people." There is a pile of money in this sort of thing. If you can board your planes quicker you can run tighter schedules and offer more flights and make more money with the same hardware.
Also, when modelling queuing and that sort of thing, yes it does include customer satisfaction and other factors. Not just maximum transfer rate. - Cyberdactyl, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0There's also the ***** that will say "This seat is taken" to the last possible moment hoping to have an emtpy seat next to him.
- DullesGuy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Well, one must consider the overhead bins. I am very picky myself about getting a seat up front by the bulkhead for extra legroom and book my tickets far in advance so I can do so. When I get to my seat, it's like "OMG! No more bulkhead space!" Everyone, including those in the back, uses the bulkhead space up front so they needn't drag it all the way to the back. A**holes I say... they clearly don't think about those who are actually going to sit in those seats.
Another thing are those people with those garment bags. BLOODY HELL, PEOPLE. Check them in! You can spend the extra three minutes at the baggage claim getting it. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0this is called the "greedy algorithm" and it always works... for some.
- Raian, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1but... but! terrorists!
- sanman, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1I for one never like it from the back.
- tsupersonic, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0Seriously, they are making a huge deal out of this. No need to waste man power on figuring out what the fastest way to get passengers aboard.
- Reliant, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0With a government agency called the TSA and the current administration running it, they are going to need a lot more help than computer scientists and mathematicians. I give you the following article from John Dvoraks column:
http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=3515 - metalgore32, on 10/12/2007, -2/+0Who gives a *****?
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