What is Digg?109 Comments
- igibson, on 10/12/2007, -21/+92wasd > dual analogs - soon you shall cower before the mighty fps pc gamer!
- Salgat, on 10/12/2007, -6/+45Bawls man, Bawls.
- mysticalone, on 10/12/2007, -1/+34I'm having trouble getting hardware on bittorrent :(
- AmishRefugee, on 10/12/2007, -1/+32honestly though, PC gamers on FPSs will generally blow away those on consoles. Not to bash console FPSs, it's just that the setup on the PC allows for much quicker and more accurate aiming as well as the ability to bind 100+ keys to whatever is needed. For other games though, sounds great.
- Trention, on 10/12/2007, -1/+27It would have to be free for PC gamers, because who id going to pay for something they already get for free? The bonus for Microsoft would be more exposure for XBLA and the Live service in general.
- catchneyez, on 10/12/2007, -3/+27@omatsei
Nope, sorry bud. You're completely wrong. I was born and raised on consoles. It wasn't until about 3 years ago that I got onto the mouse and keyboard. The difference is night and day. Using a mouse to aim is far more precise. I use to own ass at Halo and Halo2, and still do at Gears of War, but I can honestly tell you that I would have my ass kicked if I were to go up against a mediocre PC player on any of those games. I love my consoles, but the PC will always be superior in controls . . . and graphics. - FurtThePirate, on 10/12/2007, -2/+19Everything is free if your on the PC, why even bother asking?
- fuzzmeister, on 10/12/2007, -0/+16So, you're saying that since consoles are harder to control ("if you actually have some coordination"), they are better, and only "fps kids" use PCs because they are easy?
- Civilizationist, on 10/12/2007, -0/+16I thought Dreamcast was the first.
- GawtMilk, on 10/12/2007, -1/+16@dvsbastard
The console players get a small auto-aim, the PC players get mouse precision. Simple. - crazlunatic, on 10/12/2007, -6/+19that would be amazing but it would be a really messed up experience. We're talking about two gaming platforms in one community at the same time.
For a fps, you'd have much more control with a mouse and keyboard than a controller. That'd be just freakin awkward with all the PC users pwning the controllers. Not to say that the console controller is useless, because it requires great skill to properly use, which is why its so much harder to use than a mouse and keyboard.
and ya... this is just an opinion piece lol. I actually thought it'd be free xD - Klarth, on 10/12/2007, -1/+11Yeah, Quake 3 had cross-platform online play. Too bad Dreamcast players got maimed every time, though.
- tamurlane6, on 10/12/2007, -0/+9Um... It would be nothing for Microsoft to support mouse and keyboard function on the 360 in future games.
- Optimaximal, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7Then it simply won't get used.
- afpunk, on 10/12/2007, -2/+9Its quite hilarious that there are still people who claim controller players can be on the same level as mouse/keyboard players. Case in point--A few years ago a roommate of mine, who is skilled in both console and PC FPS and who I played Counterstrike with regularly got Counterstrike for the Xbox through his Gamefly subscription just to see how it translated. (Now, keep in mind I played Counterstrike back in beta 2 without knives and when the majority of players on pubs had dial-up, so I know a thing or two about seeing Counterstrike played in slow motion.)
When he booted it up, the two of us couldn't stop laughing. There was just no comparison between the common PC level of play and the common console level of play, not to mention the controls were too slow to adequetely protect yourself on all sides. The best description I could give for it was Counterstrike on training wheels, and Condition Zero was even better at that.
I'm not saying there aren't good console FPSs, but when the same game is played with 2 different control systems, its quite easy to see which one provides a higher level of play and therefore a more challenging game in a multiplayer setting. - DarQraven, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8Btw, I know Epic have already stated that cross-platform play will NOT be there in UT3, but still ... I'm praying for some heaven-sent user modification that allows us to do just that.
I can't wait to see those leet console OMFGSKILLZ0RZ being shat on by mediocre PC players. - dvsbastard, on 10/12/2007, -4/+10FTA: "Xbox Live Anywhere has the potential to be one of the first unifying services that brings together PC and console gamers into one happy family". I hate that idea. Differing controls (some proving to be more advantageous), the ease of hacking on PC, and potentially low frame rates (on low end machines playing high end games) could affect the level playing field which live currently offers.
Anyway, this article does not really provide anything new on the issue, and is just another opinion piece. - theragu40, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5@dmsean
"And I've played a friend who owns with a xbox controller. he kicked my ass when I used a keyboard/mouse, some people are better with controller. eat it up"
Well, my friend, I'm afraid the explanation for that is that you're just that terrible with the keyboard/mouse. Eat it up.
It simply does not matter how good you are with a controller. The very nature of the analog stick makes it inherent that it is less accurate and less responsive than a mouse. A good gaming mouse measures in a resolution of 2000 dpi. I guarantee you that your 360 analog sticks don't have 2000 points of reference in their range of motion. Not to mention the fact that the analog sticks automatically move back to center, which means that when you aim you are always fighting to keep the cursor where you put it. In a battle between the #1 player in a FPS on the 360 and any average to above average player on the PC (given equal familiarity with the maps and weapons), I give the fight to the PC user 99% of the time. - readme, on 10/12/2007, -3/+8Charging for XBL on the PC is a sure way to make Steam the dominant platform (as if it's already not).
- theragu40, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5It has nothing to do with being 'weak' or 'strong', and it has everything to do with infinitesimal advantages in control. Perhaps 'fight' was too strong of a word. The point is, there is resistance there, and any amount of resistance means that you have to compensate for that resistance. A mouse has virtually no resistance. Don't get me wrong, I started gaming on consoles. I was and still am a huge fan of games like Timesplitters. I'm not bad with control sticks. But I'm better with a keyboard/mouse.
Here's the major difference between analog sticks and mice: with an analog stick, the only time the cursor stops moving is when the stick has returned to center. With a mouse, the only time it moves is when you move the mouse. Anytime your hand is still, the cursor is still. Anytime you're moving your hand, the cursor is moving. This is not to mention that your range of motion is much greater in your wrists and hand than it is just in your thumb, which allows you to be more precise in your motions. - foolfromhell, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6If so, those xbox users are gonna get beaten up so badly in FPSes! And any RTSes that might come out for the 360!
Imagine someone on a PC w/ mouse/ keyboard vs. someone with analog sticks! - TheTjalian, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4I like that idea. Live Silver could be free, and you can only play against other PC gamers (this is essentially the system now, but it is now unified). You'll get gamerscore and still have access to Live Arcade and the HD Movie service etc. However, the Live Silver service will only join you in a unified service with other PC gamers. Gold will let you also play against XBOX 360 gamers too with the gamerscore and what not, but your PC must achieve a certain level of power first to join. This way, the integrity of 360 Live isn't dashed because of people with crappy spec PCs (like mine, for example!).
I think this would work. You would essentially be getting XBOX Live for free on the PC, but you wouldn't get the chance to play against 360 gamers on moderated servers or whatever. - Wonotch, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4If this were true, then they are screwed. No pc gamer in their right mind is gonna by an FPS game that requires the use of an xbox 360 controller to play on line. Man that'll be the day...
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5Just expect some 3rd party controller manufacturer to come out with some crazy controller with 27 macro buttons.
- Optimaximal, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4And two analogue sticks are?
- theragu40, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Actually I've got quite a few "real-life" friends whom I met outside of online activities, and now play CS with. And yes, we talk about our "l337" PCs in "real life". And yes, we get together and have parties and all play together. It's called a LAN party. Furthermore, I had no idea what the hell a computer was or how it worked when I got into PC gaming. I've gotten much more knowledgeable through a genuine interest in the workings of PCs that was at least partially spawned by my love for PC games. People who don't know how to use PCs aren't noobs, they're just uninformed. People who think that they're awesome precisely because they know nothing about PCs? They're noobs. Get it straight.
- spyrochaete, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5Half Life 2 on easy mode has auto aim. It doesn't look or control any different. Enemies just have bigger hit boxes.
- EvolvedAnt, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5A unified service combining console gamers to pc gamers has already been done before.
It's called PlayOnline, and was developed by SqaureEnix so that console gamers and PC gamers could both send messages to each other and play on the same servers. Infact, theirs takes it a step further, because you have not only console to pc, but console to console. For instance, Xbox players with PlayStation players in Final Fantasy Online. - xtoph, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6@thefirelane
How the heck would auto-aim work with a mouse? You would constantly be fighting with your own cursor. - spyrochaete, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4You pay for Xbox and there are Xbox-exclusive games. Does Xbox deserve Live for free as well?
- spyrochaete, on 10/12/2007, -3/+6I really don't see much of a value-add with Live Anywhere. In fact, I'm rather repelled.
PC already has free multiplayer for the most part, and Gamespy is a pretty mature multiplayer platform that many games ship on the disc. Even Microsoft Flight Simulator X uses Gamespy.
All the features that make Live Anywhere unique only serve to pull you out of the game experience. When I'm feeling chills down my spine while running away from zombies I don't want to get a popup IM from spliffy420 saying "j00 are a nub!". When I kill my 100th zombie I don't want a popup message saying "You've just completed a hidden goal! Here's 100 lamerpoints from Bill Gates!"
Why should I want this superfluous, redundant, intrusive service running on my PC, even for free? I chat when I want to chat and I play games when I want to play games. Plus, gaming is its own reward - I don't need to earn dingus points because I blasted a crate onto my own head with gravity gun. - SportBilly, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Is it really all about selling XBLA and services to PC gamers? Or is it all about getting people to buy Vista?
- Optimaximal, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4But it wont work on a PC.
Xbox gamers pay for Live because its all they've got. A PC Gamer can either play on some other free servers that just happen to run Punkbuster. - Snokage, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3why cant microsoft just take a poll?
Charge all
Charge console but not PC
Make it free for both, but charge for content.
seems easy enough...i like #3 personally. - KyleRayner, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4Has nobody stopped to think that perhaps the XBox360 wireless keyboard and mouse combo is on the way?
Hopefully after that theyll give us a damn wireless arcade fighter stick also. - radio1mike, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2I think that if people of equal skill are playing against each, and the only difference is the interface; I believe the mouse/keyboard gamer will have the edge.
Usually, the whole gamepad vs. mouse-keyboard degenerates into well you can auto-aim with a gamepad. - orielbean, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3I like that idea of silver = get your own server and gold = ranked and moderated server. That I would pay for!
- autocrawler, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2I wonder why you haven't quoted this as well:
"The mouse players were getting slightly more recoil when shot, this caused them to lose most of their fire fights.
...
So for the mouse we also added the idea that if you spin around 180 very quickly your weapon will be less accurate than if you stood still and fired.
...
Two things: 1 – we do some things to assist targeting with the controller so you don’t have to be pixel precise. 2 - Easy access to all the other abilities and powers."
An analogy: "Hay, we tied PC gamers' arms behind their backs and hung them upside down from the ceiling to maintain balance!" - Wytefang, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2I wouldn't even bother with 'Live' if that was the case. Keyboard/Mouse will always be superior in both FPS and RTS for precision over some crappy gamepad. That and I have no desire to deal with a community of foul-mouthed urban Xbox thugs trash-talking in every game and sharing their inherent lack of IQ over the voice-chat. No thanks. I've heard plenty of horror stories about Xbox Live gaming.
- v0yeur, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4MS destroyed online play for me when my free gold membership expired and i couldn't justify paying for something that has always been free in windows. i couldn't care less for stat tracking or achievements - why can't i play the game i purchased online? i mean, i PAID for it, so why should a portion of the disc be unusable to me? give me a dumbed down online experience with my silver membership.
honest question: does either sony or nintendo charge for online? - LucasKane, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Do people not remember when you could play Quake 3 Dreamcast FPS vs Consoles? 1.19 point release I think
Consoles got omgpwnaged bad, very bad, I think it was the first time I ever went 30-0 in a game ;) - Paladin27, on 10/12/2007, -6/+8I am an Xbox Live Gold Member and I really hope they charge for the PC Live Anywhere support. The small annual fee has made the gaming experience so much better on the Xbox than the PC. At least when people have to fear losing $50 and getting their credit card banned from a unified gaming service, they MIGHT not cheat as blatantly as they do when they can just change their IP and create a new account. Actually, what I think MS should really do is offer Xbox Live Anywhere Silver accounts the ability to play against each other by hosting their own servers, but if you want to play on ranked/gamerpoints servers then it should be part of the Gold (Charged) service. I have completely stopped playing PC games primarily because of all the blatant cheating going on. At least on Live the only cheaters are the ones who exploit bugs and it's not nearly as bad as playing a game of Battlefield 2 on the PC.
- spyrochaete, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2No need to digg this guy down. One of the prerequisites for the Games For Windows initiative is to have, among other things, Xbox 360 controller support. They're a little lenient on this point, though, since there are RTS games with GFW labels which don't support any gamepad, naturally.
- fremeer, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Actually this is a really good idea, just have console only, PC only or mixed servers. Some developers might add mouse+keyboard access to accomadate the new features as well.
- IHaveIssues, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3Ah, keyboard-mouse goodness for shooters, that's what I want.
- Tochi, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Also Final Fantasy XI had PC and PS2 players playing side by side. The difference here is that Live Anywhere would (presumedly) be for several games and not just built in by developers for single games.
- dmsean, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4RE: salgat
What other types of sugar water can we add caffeine too and sell like crazy to 13 yr olds?
Edit: at $3 a bottle - Wonotch, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Youre both wrong. Auto aim simply creates a circle around your reticle. If the enemy is anywhere within that circle, the bullets aim at them instead of at the center of your reticle. The bigger the circle is, the better the auto aim is. Theres no "fighting" your mouse. It doesnt move your view for you, it just moves the path of the bullets.
Rainbow Six games had this, specifically i know Raven Shield would actually move the ret from the center of the screen to instantly point directly at a tango's head, even if he was far away or you hadnt physically spotted him yet. Made the single player incredibly easy with auto-aim on. - jdavid, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2maybe microsoft has a plan for such an obvious advantage for FPSes like maybe a new controller or just letting you use the mouse in the first place.
- Wonotch, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2bandhftw, man give it up. not only are you not even understanding what theragu40 is saying, your argument doesnt even make sense. What he's saying, is that the analogue stick is velocity/throttle based, like turning your head with a car steering wheel, it doesnt stop until you turn the wheel back to center, whereas a mouse is directly proportional to what you are doing on screen. Its that simple but you still cant seem to wrap your brain around it.
I cant believe there are still people out there who are so dumb and arrogant about there l33t console FPS SKILLZ that they think analogue sticks are even remotely close to providing the speed and precision that a mouse alone does. Theres always someone on these types of stories/comments who has to say "but if ur rly LLEETS with teh controller you can PWN anyone wit a MOUSE!". Sorry, wrong, wrong, and still wrong. You either completely suck with a mouse and dont understand simple motor functions, or are still trying to justify spending all that money on a crappy console just to play FPS games.
A tiny little spring loaded knob that moves less than half an inch in every direction will never give you the accuracy that a free moving mouse will. It's like two ninjas fighting, but one is on a segway scooter. He's gonna get his ass kicked. Deal with it. -
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