What is Digg?58 Comments
- Andrico4, on 10/12/2007, -1/+21@ Navitatl
What is your reason for waiting? I thought the main bonus of it was producing the chips cheaper and the chip also gave of less heat, which makes the system quieter. I was under the impression that the DVD drive gave off all the noise. - consonance, on 10/12/2007, -1/+20Honestly, right now I don't think the PS3 would benefit from the price of the Xbox 360 dropping. What the PS3 needs is the price of a PS3 dropping.
- abox, on 10/12/2007, -1/+20This is a real bummer, as I was waiting until the 65nm processors release to buy a 360.
Forget it, I'm buying the current 360 as soon as I can: Gears of War, here I come! - Ricapar, on 10/12/2007, -0/+15I'd rather them wait a bit and get it right (to an extent), instead of rushing it and screwing up.
- foolfromhell, on 10/12/2007, -1/+13"Honestly, right now I don't think the PS3 would benefit from the price of the Xbox 360 dropping."
Well, DUH!
Lowering the competition's price will increase THEIR sales! - Sagags, on 10/12/2007, -3/+15your right, its much worse than the PS3 being delayed a year...
- NeonElixir, on 10/12/2007, -0/+12I just got a 360 today. I was going to wait, but they had a $100 rebate on it, hard to pass up.
- Klisk, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7Eh.. I got my 360 through Toys R Us ~now,~ and with the purchase of a pro bundle they gave me a 100 dollar gift card. So it's basically like I got the 360 for 300, and then used the gift card towards two games I would have bought anyways. For a 100 dollar discount, why wait?
- childprey, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5"Xbox 360 sales are less than smoking and the PS3 and Wii offering up some competition"
I'm not sure how to consider the PS3 offering competition to anything right now... [unless it was the $600 paperweight field....] - BlackKnight6, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7It will instead drain around 145 watts or more instead of 160 (this is just a guess that i made since I have built PCs and tried dif cpus to see dif power consumptions). Just ONE part out of many will use less electricity, that is it.
You won't tell any difference heat wise, ONLY the CPU will have this fab change, the GPU, RAM, HD, chipsets, DVD motor, PSU(though the PSU may produce less than 1% less heat than norm since there is less power needed, but how much heat benefit does a PSU get going from 160w to about 145w? not much), etc will all put off the same amount of heat as usual. My computer heat is mostly my video card, not my CPU (core 2 duo 6600, 44C underload and 7900GTX OCed, 75C underload). The heat out the back will be something like a MAX 5F cooler than the 90nm CPUs.
The noise from the 360 is only the DVD drive. Everyone who owns a 360, goto the dashboard, play a xbox live arcade game or play a demo (all of these don't use the DVD drive, demos and XBLA uses the HD) and it will stay near inaudible (or inaudible if you have something coming out of the speakers). Put a 360 game in and let the noise begin. Unfortunately Toshiba's fast DVD drive has ***** stabilizing and noise damping parts. There will be NO change in the sound level. Though the DVD drive never bothers me cause when I am playing the surround sound is bumpin and I can't hear the 360 at all. - razordancer, on 10/12/2007, -1/+695% or more people who are in the market for a 360 don't care what chip is inside. A 360 is a 360 is a 360... The general public simply doesn't know/care about this stuff.
P.S. 58% of all statistics are made up. - consonance, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5Er, that came out wrong. What I meant was, I don't think the price of the Xbox 360 NOT dropping will help sales of the PS3.
- askldjd, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4@ consonance
Funny how that your first sentence makes no sense, yet you are dugg up.
Quality digg... - olliholliday, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4can't see it happening tbh. you can get desktop PCs that are passively cooled right now, just not the fastest ones.
I suspect it will always be this way - people need computers to be faster more than they need them to be quiet/cool. - VeryAngryJim, on 10/12/2007, -8/+11"I'd say it's worth the wait, man. I'm waiting."
in all seriousness, what is it that makes it worth it? I'm considering a 360 purchase myself and I can't understand the big deal between the two chips, it's not like Gears will look any better than it does now. - moofer, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3And now we have an illustrated example of why Apple switched to Intel.
- Arkz, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3not really, the DVD spinning at 12x is and always will be loud, and cant be made much quieter... we just have to deal with it
- m00nstone, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2The 360 price drop will happen before the PS3 European release, no matter what happens on the production line.
- limitbreakerx, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2That was my line of thinking as well. I wanted to wait for the update because it wasn't that far away, but now that I heard that it's delayed, I took the plunge and bought one today. The reason for waiting is just peace of mind that the processor won't run as hot which could possibly mean a longer lifespan. I think people who have been on the fence should just buy it and enjoy Gears of War. Lost Planet is coming out soon, so it's a good time to buy.
- JavertHolmes, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Shrinking die manufacturing processes is nice, but I long for the days of passively cooled systems. It'll be nice when system speeds get to a point of "OK, this system can render an entire planet and its inhabitants/buildings simultaneously with AI for each of them. But can it do it at less Watts consumed/hour and cooler/quieter?"
- kodak543, on 10/12/2007, -5/+7i'd wait for it, just because it would be cheaper, and by then gears of wars will be $20.
- Lut3s, on 10/12/2007, -3/+5Yeah buy the black monolith for Resistance Fall Of Man. 1 game... 360 has so many games, gears of war, n3, dead rising, and many more on the way. The only reason I'd ever own a ps3 is if it came with Marissa Miller.
Edit: Prepare to be dugg down. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Prices will probably drop next Christmas because of the new chips, but it won't come anytime soon. Dropping prices during the slow time of the year for videogame sales wouldn't make any sense. Better for MS to rake in what they can before getting serious when the leaves change. With combined release of Halo 3 plus the price decrease, 360's are going to kick butt and take numbers in Q4 of '07... but why waste a year waiting? I got one and Gears yesterday and I have been in gaming bliss since.
I would like to see something done about the DVD-Drive noise problem though in the next design update. I can live with it and won't be doing the sound damp modding I've seen online until the new year long warranty runs out, but it's an easy fix and I don't see why it hasn't been addressed before. - VeryAngryJim, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3heat? my roommates hasn't melted yet, and he camped out for it. Cheaper? that's really a gamble. Less power? my comps run 24/7 and my electric is included in my rent.
Maybe it's just me. - razordancer, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3And Sony is punctual?
- chrislund, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3i wouldn't blame microsoft, i'd blame ibm - they're the ones fabbing the chips. i'm not surprised with the delay either, given all the unfulfilled promises ibm made apple regarding the powerpc.
- Trevor2, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1by Jozer99
"@BlackKnight6
Temperature and heat are different things. Although your processor runs at 44 degrees, it probably has a massive heat sink, which is actually getting rid of heat much faster than the dinky heat sink that form factor of the 7900 necessitates (long, flat, and thin). My car's engine runs at about 170 degrees (F), and my coffee is scalding at 212 degrees F, yet my car is putting out much more heat than the coffee is.
As for the XBox 360, yes, 145W vs. 160W isn't a huge difference, but it could well be the difference between "unreasonably hot" and "nuclear meltdown" in terms of cooling the thing. After all the Macbook Pro's using the Core 2 Duos run 10 degrees cooler than the Macbook Pros running the old Core Duos, even though the new processors use only 3W less power."
Wrong, the 7900gtx has a big ass cooler with heatpipes, gpu's create lots more heat than a cpu. I think the 7900 is 80nm compared to the core 2 duo which is 65nm. Gpus have many more transistors and do much more processing. - whickywhickyjim, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3If they released this dieshrink in connection with a pricedrop, they could really torpedo the ps3 before it even started. The 65nm process is already there - this is just a missed opportunity to stomp a mudhole in the ps3's bottom line.
- razordancer, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2Die shrink isn't for the enthusiasts at all. As you said, it's about lower production cost. That's all. Ask anyone on the street if they'd rather have a 360 with a 65nm chip or a 90nm chip...
- tjthayer, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2@Johnnycashak
"Dropping prices during the slow time of the year for videogame sales wouldn't make any sense."
Economics 101 Johnny... That's PRECISELY when prices drop. Think about it. - 4g1vn, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Reply to: lut3s
"prepare to be dugg down" LOL........ Anything that is pro-sony is "DUGG down" just look at all my comments defending Sony. There an excellent electronics manufacture who survived even after their bread and butter (walkman) product line died. People need to realize that lik-sang was doing something illegal and was shut down for that. The PSP was not supposed to be released in UK and they were importing them, bottom line. I have nothing against Nintendo so I'm not a fanBOY. I'm actually up there in age. What really gets me is when people support inferior MS products and blindly follow the herd. Let's not forget how GREAT the 360 launch titles were. - xXShadowstormXx, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1@ Scrappy,
360's aren't selling like crap. After all, when all the PS3's and Wii's are gone, what's left on the shelves? 360's. - Gerz1219, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Heh, that will never happen. Since we're about 20 years away from seeing real-time graphics that look like The Incredibles, I seriously doubt we're going to get to a "good enough" point where consumers care more about fan noise than better graphics, physics and AI. The only consumers who care about power consumption and fan noise are geeks that actively look for these sorts of things. Nobody else buys a console and thinks about how much it will add to the electric bill, or even notices the system noise unless it's pointed out to them. I know it seems like the Wii's success means people are willing to accept crappy graphics, but unless Nintendo can come up with a similarly revolutionary gimmick next generation, MS will just integrate motion control into the X-Box 720. Consoles will remain as powerful as they need to be, which means no passively cooled units.
- razordancer, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I don't think that 3D glasses / shutter glasses are going to break into the mainstream any time soon. Head mounted displays have been around for a long time now, but I never really see them around.
With people dropping several grand on HD screens, I imagine that they'd be reluctant to 'step down' to a headset. I think that most of them offer a 'virtual size' of about 36". With prices for DLP, plasma, and LCD dropping like a stone, and laser TV around a year off, large format HD sets are going to rule the marketplace. - Jozer99, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Why hold out? The console's performance is the same as it always has been, and you can already find $100 discounts off the normal price for the XBox 360. I think the whole price drop is more for microsoft's (slim) profit margin than for consumer's pockets.
- lanchfn21, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2does anyone know if toysrus is still doing the gift cards with the purchase of a 360? Is it in store only or can you get it online? I am planning on getting a 360 and $100 towards games would be quite nice. I couldnt find anything on the toys website and the nearest store is about an hour away.
edit: meant to reply to the comment that was under me at the time of this edit. - iZealot, on 10/12/2007, -3/+3Well around Tampa Bay if you go to most stores you can get a PS3, thats how bad there selling now.
The die shrink is minor to 80% of he non enthusiasts. The noise reduction is #1 thou but directly related.
$2 would be a new quite DVD or HD-DVD drive.
#3 would be a new style or color - whickywhickyjim, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1a dieshrink isn't just something for enthusiasts. It allows them to produce greater amounts of units at a lower cost. This allows them to make more money per sale becasue the costs of production fall. It also allows them to produce more units. It's the entire reason that they are shifting to 65nm and it's not just for enthusiasts.
- taxman, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1Decreasing process size should hardly matter when you are getting the 360.
Decreasing the size from 90nm to 65nm would decrease the power consumed but that only means that you will be saving a dollar every month on power.
The speed can be increased but all the consoles need to have the same spec for the games to be universal, so the clock speed will remain the same.
The noise is not gonna decrease tremendously cos of this as most of the noise is due to the DVD tray.
So unless they re-design the 360 or the chip, merely decreasing the process size is not gonna make much of a difference except in cost for manufacturing but its upto Microsoft whether they will cut the price. - JaTaN, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Might as well buy it now since MS bumped up the warranty to 1-yr and they're pushing retailers to offer incentives. Like someone mentioned, Toys R Us offered a free $100 gift card last week and Micro Center has been offering a $100 rebate for either system for a while now. Bigger stores like Best Buy and Circuit City are offering free stuff worth $40-$50 which is ok I guess. A lot of people have been able to buy it from Overstock for $340-$350 shipped
I got mine from Micro Center for $469 (w/ tax & $33 for 1-yr extended warranty) and I'm getting $200 back ($100 rebate and $100 cash back for getting their credit card). So I paid $269 and I'm covered by MS for the first year if something goes wrong and then if something goes wrong during the second year, Micro Center will take the system and give me a $400 gift card (price I paid) to buy a new system or anything else in the store (by that time the system will be less than $400 anyways plus the newer version will be out). Mostly all retailers have a 1-yr and 2-yr extended warranty which means you could be covered up to 3 yrs (for other products the extended warranty is a waste but I just bought it just incase something goes wrong and b/c $33 wasnt too much considering I got the system for half the price anyways)
Yes MS did brick some of the older systems with their update, but they did extend the warranty now and they are offering refunds for all repairs done which isnt too bad (would've been better if they would've let the consumers know ahead of time)
Doubt MS will lower the price right now (they rather offer free stuff with purchase to keep their revenue up). They'll probably lower the price in April/May before summer hits to get more people to buy it (plus to get rid of the stock for the newer version) and then probably another price drop or more incentives before next Christmas - nobogeys217, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1dont wait. Its not that big of a deal. You probably wouldnt tell the difference except for maybe a quieter system and a little less heat. those arent really big deals. I cant hear my 360 that well when it is on and it doesnt really get that warm. so BUY A XBOX 360 NOW
- HappyScrappy, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2As a 360 owner, I can say I care. The thing is so damn loud. And a 65nm version probably would be somewhat quieter.
- tjthayer, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Bah, real (American) men like the current larger chip better anyhow. It's the Hummer of chips. Sure, it's hotter than it should be, less efficient to manufacture, and ugly as hell, but way more manly than a little girly 65nm chip...
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Oh and i forgot the supposed 100 dollar drop this Xmas didn't happen either thanx for nothing MS!!!
- Klisk, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2Why would I buy a console with no games I would be interested in? The PS3 has horrible support, and a horrible lineup for future releases. It's just a blu-ray player, that's it. I don't even watch DVD's!
No, I don't care about Final Fantasy or MGS. No, asides from Katamari and Okami I can't even recall any PS2 exclusive games that I fawned over. My point being, the PS3 just doesn't offer anything.
My Wii and 360, on the other hand, are best friends. I heard the 360 proposed. The Wii is going out to choose wedding gowns.
I know you're just a troll, but I decided to respond anyways. - JeffH, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1What's worse waiting for you say? Well, there's a potential price drop (though i'm not holding my breath), the reduced heat generation, which in turn makes it quieter also, and it uses less power. It's just superior, and worth the wait if you care about the little things such as those.
- HappyScrappy, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2You can get a 360 in any place too. Must be selling like crap.
- taxman, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1Does everyone on the street know that the libraries for the 65nm costs more than the 90nm libraries and the fabs will require more money to make them(not per chip). Microsoft wont have the price advantage till they reach a substantial number first, which will take a few months.
- iZealot, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1This is unfortunate, I was hoping for a redesign or 3 tier to be introduced at CES.
I guess we have to wait till E3 now for the redesign to include, 65nm chip, HD-DVD, WIFI, largeer HDD and HDMI. IF This package is archived for 499 or less Microsoft can put the death grip on Sony. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -2/+0hmm reducing Processor Size wouldn't that cause an issue. I mean aren't processors doubling up more and more to be more efficient. PC processor aren't reducing in size me thinks this could cause it to be less powerful personality.Also i will believe this info when i see it. Joystick.com is like Edgadjet.com to much hear say and bs with no SOURCES!!!! ALso if this were true i see this no different than Microsoft "FAILING" again as they did already with selling 10 Million Consoles by the Holidays END( first stated my Bill Gates they would sell 10 mill before PS3 launch , than changed it) , than promising Halo 3 before or on the date of the PS3 launch the ZUNE failed hype and only one NEXT GEN GAME in a YEAR, Updates BRICKING CONSOLES, Not fixing over heating issues, and now this !!!! Sounds to me the 360 better sweeps it's own door-step for it goes sweeping SONYS.......
Meaning Microsoft has it's own issues to fix for it contiues on it's path creating 360 fanboy marks ripping on the PS3!! -
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