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World of Warcraft faces wily new opponents

guardian.co.uk — Orcs, elves and 10 million paying subscribers: World of Warcraft is a PC gaming phenomenon. Three years since its release and the online game is still riding high, but could 2008 finally see it face some competition?

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  • tangofish, on 05/01/2008, -6/+43Warhammer Online actually looks like it could compete with WoW, I think a lot depends on the release schedule of Lich King if it coincides with Warhammer this may stop WoW players migrating away. As for LotR I don't think Blizzard will be too worried.
    • SilentBobSC, on 05/01/2008, -2/+9I'm kind of on the fence about WAR, it's very PvP oriented, and there is a significant amount of the WoW populous that just doesn't appreciate PvP and wants to focus on PvE. I will definitely give it a shot, but my last PvP excursion was in EvE and I left with quite a bad taste in my mouth.
      • Slogo, on 05/01/2008, -2/+3Have hope then. While I hold EvE in very high regard for what it does it is a very niche game. It is for those players that can play for very large amounts of time so that they get to participate in the game proper. For someone like you who's never PvPed before and by extension is likely relatively new to MMORPGs judging by your comment (not an insult just an observation) EvE seems like it'd be a nightmare.
        AoC and Warhammer are both promising a type of PvP that has more depth than WoW but without the required time sink or frustration of EvE.
        • Akairenn, on 05/01/2008, -3/+1Four words:

          Dark Age of Camelot.

          Provided Mythic doesn't screw this up like they did with DAoC, WAR is going to wtfpwn(tm) And I trust Mythic can't go EverQuest Lite with WAR, since Games Workshop is really flaky about how their IP is used. Now, if only WAR were 40K...
          • 3tcp, on 05/01/2008, -0/+1Exactly. Hopefully the license ohlders will preent mythic from destroying their game like they did with daoc.
      • plaunie, on 05/01/2008, -2/+2could someone please translate that for me?
        • Scalpels, on 05/01/2008, -1/+7"I'm kind of on the fence about Warhammer: Age of Reckoning, it's very Player versus Player oriented, and there is a significant amount of the World of Warcraft populous that just doesn't appreciate Player versus Player and wants to focus on Player versus Enemy. I will definitely give it a shot, but my last Player versus Player excursion was in Eve Online and I left with quite a bad taste in my mouth."
      • Harabeck, on 05/01/2008, -0/+8Eve has MASSIVE death penalties compared to most games. Actually, I dont know of any game that has a worse death penalty. Dying in WAR or WoW is not nearly so bad as losing your ship and fittings and having to rebuild.
        • YoshinoAiki, on 05/01/2008, -1/+7Eve is a nightmare. The pvp in it is horrible (and I like pvp in most other games -- Shadowbane's was way better for example). Imagine if you could do in other games what you can do in Eve. It is like if you are playing WoW and you are out killing stuff for a quest in a zone. Suddenly some very high lvl guy enters the zone. He's nowhere near where you are. But he secretly is able to scan the zone and find out where you are, even though he is on the other side of the zone. Then he teleports directly to you with no warning. Instantly he paralyzes you. At his mercy, you are either slaughtered with no way of fighting back, or he demands you pay him an outrageous sum of money to spare your life, with no garauntee he won't kill you later. (and if he catches you again will most certainly demand ransom again or kill you). After killing you, he proceeds to loot your corpse, taking not only all the stuff in your backpack, but also all the gear you are wearing. If you are really unlucky he also slaughters your soul and if you aren't very careful you lose all your xp and enchantments (your skil points if you dont have an updated clone, and your implants if you lose your pod and those can be worth more than your ship sometimes).

          So yeah, EVE has an outrageous death penalty. It is so high in fact, that people will gladly suicidally attack you in Empire space, in the hopes they will take you out before Concord (think space police) will show up and kill them for their outlaw behavior.

          Like one of the above posters said, EVE is for the hardcore player only. It makes no room for the casual player. And making money in EVE is terrible gameplay. You mindlessly mine asteroids, hoping that some jerk doesn't show up and either try to steal from you or blow up your mining ship for ***** and giggles. There is little chance you will do well in EVE without a large corporation (player guild) to help you. You certainly won't be able to do much in Lowsec or 0.0 space, which is the larger part of the galaxy. Out there, it is certain death if anyone spots you and everyone shoots everyone.

          Also, if you haven't been playing for a year, expect to be unable to compete with older players... ever. They will have 1,2, or 3 years of skills on you because gaining skills is time based! That's right, no matter how much you play you won't gain skills any faster. This is cool and not cool. The not cool side of it is it pretty much gates the new player into being a gank target for a very long time. The cool side of it is you can choose to learn any skill you want and it will train even when you are offline.

          If they were to fix the death penalty in this game and other aspects of the pvp, it could be a whole lot more fun to play. It really sucks if you get killed and you lose stuff you spent many hours mindlessly mining asteroids -- which is probably the most boring thing I've ever seen in an MMO.
          • spudnic, on 05/01/2008, -0/+1"They will have 1,2, or 3 years of skills on you because gaining skills is time based! That's right, no matter how much you play you won't gain skills any faster."

            That's not strictly true, skills have diminishing returns, you'd never be able to be on a par skills wise, but given time you'd certainly catch up a good portion. Shouldn't that be how it is anyway? If they've been playing years longer than you they *should* be stronger.
          • sodoh, on 05/01/2008, -0/+1I've played Eve for about 2 years. I am by no means an expert but let me dispel some myths with what you are saying.

            "...you are out killing stuff for a quest in a zone. Suddenly some very high lvl guy enters the zone..."

            If you are in safe space then a high level is not going to do anything. They can kill you but they die as well. They do it often enough and they can't even fly into Empire space. For the most part the missions are uneventful with PvP inside Empire space.

            In 0.0 space it is a different story. It is a free fire place depending on who owns the area and people defend their space. It is not a solo player game. You have to make friends with people, understand some level of politics going on and where wars/deaths are happening (which are mapped in your star maps). Once you do this it is pretty easy. Join a decent guild and they will kit you out with so much newbie stuff that you could be killed all day and still make money.

            The death penalty is only outragous if your solo or do something stupid like trying to carry your life savings in cargo through 0.0 and expect to live. (I know, I did it as well). You should only fly what you can afford to loose.

            "It makes no room for the casual player"

            Wrong. In fact the way the skill points system builds up you don't have to grind to build your skills. With a guild you can easily get the ships/training/etc to go with the skill points. Insurance as well covers the cost of most things until your far into the game.

            "Also, if you haven't been playing for a year, expect to be unable to compete with older players... ever."

            Bull. Skill points mean nothing without the ability to use the skills and how you spend those skill points. For example after a break of 4 months I came back and within an hour managed to loose two Ravens (cost 50 million just for the ship at time, thats not including fittings). I had the skills points, what I didn't have the practise in combat.

            I have also seen 2 noobs in Bantams and one experienced player in a raven take down a Armageddon without a loss of life. Despite the character flying had more skill points then the three combined. He lost because he didn't know how to fly the ship.

            You can see the ships and sizes here.
            http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/2b/Eve_ ...

            In closing the game is good fun, once you get it into your head that you will die and die many times. If you can't handle someone blowing you up for no reason then it isn't a game for you.
          • Kennerk, on 05/01/2008, -1/+1holy *****, that has got to be the longest comment i've ever seen on digg that's not buried or "OMG DON'T READ U'R GONNA GET KISSED.." etc etc *****...
          • YoshinoAiki, on 05/01/2008, -0/+1Perhaps you assume that I have not been playing Eve long. I have been playing it for more than a year myself. I've become very disillusioned with it.
            "If you are in safe space then a high level is not going to do anything. They can kill you but they die as well" Yes and if you fly around thinking you are safe, you will be in for one hell of a shock when you run into the people who are more than willing to suicide bomb you and take your stuff. All it takes is one time where you do have valuable cargo for it to really hurt. And so they lose some standing, then they grind their standing back up and do it again, or use alts to blow up your haulers. And this doesn't even cover the empire war decs on small - mid sized empire corps... not going there, it's not fun.
            "It is not a solo player game. You have to make friends with people, understand some level of politics going on and where wars/deaths are happening... " yada yada. You hit the nail on the head. You HAVE to be in a big sized corp if to make it in Eve. Small to medium sized corps are just prey animals.
            As for casual player.... what do you define a casual player as? You nearly have to be a hardcore player to even get past the learning curve of Eve. Sure, you don't grind your skills up, you can't. But you for sure as hell have to grind your isk to get into decent ships etc., unless you get it all handed to you by established player organizations in 0.0.
            As for my statement about not being able to compete with people with years more skills... I stand by that. Yeah, you can compete on some level if you have "ability". Sure, you can beat someone with skill points who is a dumbass and doesn't know how to fly his ship. Whatever. If the guy knows how to fire his guns, the guy with the bigger guns and the more advanced ship because he has the more advanced skills that take months and years to get is going to beat you. I'm talking about competing given that you play "ability" is comparable when your character skills are NOT.
            In closing the game is good fun if you are in a big corp that gives you all the equipment you need and are playing all the time so you can run around in gangs and kill other people. As for solo content or small corp content --- 2 words: It sucks. Expect to have to look over your shoulder all the time and run and hide all the time. And if you think that getting killed in Empire doesn't happen a ***** ton -- take a look at www.jihadswarm.com. Those kills are ALL in empire space.
            Eve is a niche game. If you like that niche, more power to you. But it certainly doesn't have room for others.
      • sodoh, on 05/01/2008, -1/+1Eve deaths aren't that bad if you have taken step to mitigate the damage before hand. It is generally new players to the game that hurt, like buying for a clone they don't need yet or spending everything on a ship/cargo instead of saving or getting insurance.

        The harshest PvP game that I have played was Neocron (prior to it getting dumbed down). When you died you lost everything except 1 item and suffered skills reduction, meaning most cases you couldn't use the items you owned for some time. Yet it was quite possibly one of the most fun, tense games I've played. That, Eve and Asherons Call (DarkTide) were the roughest and best fun.
    • Goosecomics, on 05/01/2008, -7/+2From what I heard about Warhammer, its almost exactly like WoW, except better graphics.
      • Harabeck, on 05/01/2008, -0/+6Do some more research.
      • Asianwaste, on 05/01/2008, -1/+8No that's LoTR:Online. and it's doing only okay. Afterall why leave WoW for WoW and start your characters over?
        • Jrr6415sun, on 05/01/2008, -1/+2LoTR online is a dumbed down WoW, you offend many people when you say it is exactly like it.. (I play LOTRO and i know it's sorta crap compared to WoW)
        • Planets, on 05/01/2008, -0/+2They need to somehow get their act together. LOTRO lost around 50,000 users in these recent past months. It seems like a terrible IP to waste.
        • Wintermute426, on 05/02/2008, -0/+1Dumbed down WoW? I thought WoW was already as dumbed down as you could make an MMO without making it one long cutscene from 1-70?
    • kazamx, on 05/01/2008, -4/+3Remember RULE NUMBER 1. Do not buy any MMO in its first 6 months unless you are the sort of player who likes playing beta games. All new MMOs cut features and have balance problems that can really piss people off to start with. it normally takes at least 6 months to get their ***** together.
    • Defuser, on 05/01/2008, -5/+4It's time for people to accept the fact that Warhammer Online is the Duke Nukem Forever of MMOs. They went into production before WoW, and they still haven't even gone Beta.
      • Harabeck, on 05/01/2008, -0/+2Wrong, youre thinking of a project that Games Workshop nixed because they didnt like where it was going. The current encarnation is completely different.
      • Julik, on 05/01/2008, -0/+1It went beta... and then stopped beta to change a bunch of stuff.. I think it is about to go into beta again.
      • 3tcp, on 05/01/2008, -0/+1They canceled the old Warhammer and restarted development a year or two ago with a new development company. It's coming out this fall and has been in the earliest stages of testing for a few months now.
    • Asianwaste, on 05/01/2008, -1/+4I've heard bad thing about the WAR beta test. Not one of those it's not the final product type bad things, like there's overall bad criticism of its general mechanics, presentation, and design.
      I'm hearing lukewarm things about AoC. Some say it's good, some say it needs some work. No real strong feelings either way.
      I hate to say it, I think none of them will really dethrone WoW this year. Personally I'm sick of WoW, but I'll be honest here, it's a tough act to follow.
      • Julik, on 05/01/2008, -0/+4The thing that WoW really does well is how fluid everything is... Nothing ever feels jerky... Always very smooth. From the attack / spell animations to just running around. Everything else I have played feels clunky... if that makes any sense.
        • 3tcp, on 05/01/2008, -0/+2Agreed. One of WoW's biggest assets is that it doesn't let graphics interfere with gameplay like most mmorpg's do. A cartoony look is fine as long as lag doesn't prevent you from performing what you want to.
    • 3tcp, on 05/01/2008, -1/+1I got really into Dark Age of Camelot and it was great... until Mythic destroyed it with all the patching and ***** x-pacs (ToA). The RvR was great and it looks like Warhammer will have RvR too. Hopefully they won't be able to screw it up as much as they did DAoC because the license holder for Warhammer has veto authority over any kind of changes that Mythic would make.

      I Beta'd WoW and was really into it for the first few months after release but after I saw that the end game was all (boring) PvE and the PvP was lame I quit. RvR is kind of a niche system and has a lot of appeal for certain types of players but it will be frustrating for people used to a WoW like game. RvR rewards small groups of very skilled players rather than large groups of players who invest an enormous amount of time into the game. Open field battles of 8-16vs 8-16 are a lot of fun. In DAoC it wasn't unheard of for a very skilled & experienced 8-man group to decimate 24-32 man zerg full of pugs and bots.

      I've been watching the development and their ideas for fixing the major flaws of DAoC seem good but I'll withhold judgement until I get a chance to beta it. Mythic built a reputation for never or under delivering on their promises on DAoC. For the biggest x-pac they promised that it wouldn't change RvR but when it came out there was entirely new system of RvR abilities that you needed to PvE grind to get plus a bunch of overpowered items that were essential for RvR... and the items needed to be 'leveled' up in PvE.
      I just hope that the Warhammer license holders have enough sense to prevent Mythic from destroying their own game.
    • Malevolant, on 05/01/2008, -1/+1Everyone I've talked to and all of the comments/feedback I've read, from WoW players, isn't positive at all. This goes for AoC too. IMHO I think it will take an absolutely mind-blowing game to pull anyone out of WoW. So many players have so much time invested in multiple chars so feeling like you have to start over from scratch will be too much for a lot of players. Lets not forget that to leave WoW, a lot of players will want their friends to come to so it'll have to be a group decision a lot of the time.
      Personally the only way I'll leave WoW is if the servers dry up and become deserted and that's not going to happen. I've leveled all but 2 classes to max level, was a hardcore raider, etc. so I know the game, inside and out. I don't want to start over and I have no intention of leaving for another game. I am also very casual now so WoW has that niche filled.
  • rawandrew, on 05/01/2008, -12/+50Age Of Connan sounds like a very interesting game with a totally new feel to it. Looking forward to it.
    • Goosecomics, on 05/01/2008, -0/+3Totally agree. My old WoW guild is so sick of the game, we are all uber excited for the PvP in AoC.
    • KaiUno, on 05/01/2008, -5/+4AoC is what Dark Alliance is to Shadows of Amn/Throne of Bhaal: a retarded hack & slash cousin. When you look at it from a distance, it's just one big long tunnel of mobs and quest hubs. No real open world.

      I hope the siege pvp makes up for it though. Haven't seen much of it as they won't throw it in beta, they're "saving" it for release.
      • topace3000, on 05/01/2008, -1/+5How can you possibly know when the game isn't even finished yet?
        • KaiUno, on 05/01/2008, -1/+2Because I've been playing it for several months? We're 20 days from release now. When it comes to combat, nothing groundbreaking is going to happen in the last couple of weeks before launch. It'll be fine-tuning and balancing, nothing more.
          Oh, and some critical features are still not in the game. Spellweaving and seige PVP to name a few. They're not going to test those during beta for some reason. To keep 'em fresh for everybody is the official statement, but somehow I can't shake the lingering feeling they are so bad, they don't want the word to get out and screw up the pre-sales.
          • topace3000, on 05/02/2008, -0/+1So are you a game designer or just some guy who was in the beta and decided he knows what the designers are doing?
          • KaiUno, on 05/02/2008, -0/+1Eh... if you get to see what the designers are doing every day, yeah. That's kind of how it works with a closed beta, isn't it? And if they aren't showing you the major selling points of the game untill release, you know something's up. Or, at least, something won't be tested extensively.
    • kazamx, on 05/01/2008, -2/+8BOOOOOOOOOBS and chopping peoples heads off :-) gotta give AOC a try
    • Shuk, on 05/01/2008, -0/+3What excites me about Age of Conan is the new type of combat involving shields, real time movement, and hit detection. Thus, winning battles will require some skill to it. Sounds great on paper, but I just hope the servers can handle all that hit detection, and I hope players won't find be able to find ways to abuse the system.
      • xst4t1kx, on 05/05/2008, -0/+1It sounds better than it plays and will keep most entertained for less than an hour. I put time over the last two days into the open beta and I am already sick of AoC. I started looking into it after warhammer was pushed back again, became very interested in it, got some hands on and now cannot stand the game. It's rubbish.
    • bonedead, on 05/01/2008, -1/+2Yeah I'm definitely pre-orderin AoC. Wtf was that tard thinking though, LOTRO? Are you effin kidding me?
    • Uhhhuh, on 05/02/2008, -1/+0I've been playing around in open beta, and I know it's beta and all but the game just doesn't feel very solid.
  • Lionhart, on 05/01/2008, -15/+16Played Warhammer beta. It is complete garbage and really needs a LOT of work. Age of Conan looks very interesting, however it also looks like you will need a beast of a machine to run it which could hurt their potential a lot.
    • Goosecomics, on 05/01/2008, -4/+2Just get a computer around Oblivion specs, and you should be ok. It's not that beefy.
    • Raignn, on 05/01/2008, -7/+16Oh come on. Most people who "played" Warhammer Online in beta and now are touting how crappy it is are not only breaking NDA, but probably got kicked out of beta for being a douche. Not exactly the model of reliable information if you ask me.

      Everything that has been released not only shows that it's going to be awesome and is coming along nicely.
      • Planets, on 05/01/2008, -1/+4Yeah, everything that has been released.

        By Mythic.
    • Shivian, on 05/01/2008, -1/+12Seeing as WAR is not slated for release for another 4 or 5 months I think alot of improvement and polishing will be done. IMO it's too early to denounce it as garbage. Age of Conan looks good, but I have suspicions that it wont be any more of threat to WoW than LOTR. BTW if anyone is interested AoC is released on the 20th of this month.
      • alexjsolis, on 05/01/2008, -3/+5Nice, I have a bunch of friends playing the AoC beta and they all say it looks really good. Ill have to check it out. What mostly turns me off about WoW is it looks way too cartoony for my tastes.
        • ConceptualTrap, on 05/01/2008, -2/+10Get over the graphics of WoW...the cartoony look is actually gorgeous once you get in motion. The art direction over at Blizzard is, singlehandedly, the most cohesive undertaking that I've seen in an MMO. The animations are top notch and fluid and the gameplay is simply the best out the for an MMO.

          WoW's problem is pvp and endgame. Both of which get remarkably repetetive. With multiple 70's I can easily say that I prefer playing new characters than running around grinding for loot for my higher characters.
        • DoubtingThomas, on 05/01/2008, -0/+2I also prefer the "cartoony" stylized look of WoW over the more realistic games. I also agree that end-game PvP is completely broke in WoW and I blame that solely on the addition of arenas.
      • xst4t1kx, on 05/05/2008, -0/+1Most of the reviews I saw prior to hands on with AoC were positive. Now that I have played it I have no idea what game was being looked at in those reviews. It doesn't appear to be the same one that I tried.
    • jzuska, on 05/01/2008, -7/+2I played AOC it's awful. Skip it.
      • YoshinoAiki, on 05/01/2008, -0/+3It's not out yet, your comment is invalid
        • BodomX, on 05/01/2008, -0/+3Well, there was a beta released, but his lack of insight makes his comment fail.
    • Vindicoth, on 05/01/2008, -5/+3HAHA what the *****? " I WAS IN THE BETA AND IT WAS GARBAGE ". Are you an idiot? THATS WHY ITS A BETA. If you said " I WAS IN THE RETAIL GAME AND IT WAS GARBAGE " that would make much more sense.

      You don't complain that a computer without a processor isn't working properly, you say wait til it gets FINISHED BEING BUILT.
      • Planets, on 05/01/2008, -1/+4When software enters beta, it's usually already feature-complete. Betas are generally for bug squashing and system tweaking/balancing. They're not for radical system or design changes.
        • Gregus1032, on 05/02/2008, -1/+1Yea... except no. There are system and design changes all the time in betas.
        • Vindicoth, on 05/02/2008, -1/+1Maybe for OTHER types of Software, but not Gaming. New features are constantly added during beta, in which they are fully tested.
      • xst4t1kx, on 05/05/2008, -0/+1You have no idea at all what you are talking about Vindi. There isn't a single MMO in existence that has undergone drastic changes between open beta and retail. What you see in open beta IS what you will get come launch. ALL criticism of the game at this stage is valid.
    • Wintermute426, on 05/02/2008, -0/+1That's probably why they're putting it out on 360 as well, to recoup some of the lost subscriptions from PC users who can't run it.
  • andrew97068, on 05/01/2008, -16/+6warhammer>wow
    • Goosecomics, on 05/01/2008, -4/+9Warhammer = WoW 2.0 from what I heard.
      • yohnstoppable, on 05/01/2008, -1/+4That is actually kind of what I want to play to be honest. WOW with some improvements and more of a focus on pvp. I know a lot of people complain about that, but WAR has a lot of things I wished were changed with WOW.

        That being said, people saying WAR>WOW need to not buy the hype. Google for some beta leaks and see for yourself. It still has issues that are being worked on, and things which need to be addressed before release or it will suck. Wait until you get your hands on it to be the judge
    • Harabeck, on 05/01/2008, -1/+2Warhammer and WoW are only similar in their settings. Their underlying mechanics and gameplay will be much different.
    • darkism, on 05/01/2008, -4/+3Real life > any MMORPG
      • theaceoffire, on 05/01/2008, -1/+2Depends. Not all of us have lives.
      • YoshinoAiki, on 05/01/2008, -0/+3That can be argued against. In real life you have permadeath, disease that can't be cured, no rezzing, it's the worst grind of any game to make even a little money and you have to spend a lot of it on bills and food, etc. On the plus side it is a very broad sandbox game and has the best graphics of any game. It also has the best romantic simulation of any game.
        Was that geeky enough for you? (that was just a short sum up of some rather long articles critiquing Real Life as and MMO. Google it, they are worth some laughs)
  • Llanowar, on 05/01/2008, -3/+6The Chronicles of Spellborn would be a worthy competitor. But I doubt it can do much as it hasn't got the finances the bigger companies have.
    • Planets, on 05/01/2008, -0/+2Who?

      /checks out their website

      Wait, are you serious?
    • stupidverizon, on 05/01/2008, -1/+2As a video game nerd I've never even heard of this game. That alone puts it out of competitor range...
    • Llanowar, on 05/02/2008, -0/+1The game will be lots better than all other games I am sure. It's also very innovative. But it hasn't and can't spend a lot on ads to get many people knowing about it.
      Most true mmorpg geeks know about this game and agree it will be amazing. But the "casual" gamers don't hear ***** about it.
  • Sephrra, on 05/01/2008, -8/+2Absolutely not.
  • johnomaz, on 05/01/2008, -3/+8I will try Warhammer when it comes out. I've played WoW for over 2 years, and still enjoy it. The PvP is annoying at times, but oh well. Conan though, I'm going to have to read up on it. I may try it too. I assume these games will come with a free trial period as most of them do.
  • plhearn, on 05/01/2008, -19/+9World of Warcraft will be the best MMO around until Blizzard decides to make another MMO. Age of Connan is horribly unbalanced based on the open beta. Warhammer might be good, but its no WOW. Blizzard has always been the best at making games. All these new MMOs will go the same way as LOTR, Vanguard, EQ, and all the others.
    • Llanowar, on 05/01/2008, -3/+4It will be the most popular most likely. Not the best. There are tons of mmo's out there that are far better.
    • Slogo, on 05/01/2008, -3/+2AoC PvP weekend was a level 20 PvP test.
      Show me one game that has balanced PvP before max level? Oh that's right WoW's PvP is HORRIBLY broken at the comparable level.
      Plus there's been like 3-4 balance patches since the PvP weekend.
      I'm not saying AoC is good, great, or better than WoW, but at least pick an accurate flaw to blast it for.
      • YoshinoAiki, on 05/01/2008, -0/+0WOW has been out how long now? They've balanced and rebalanced the pvp in it over and over. Is it balanced now? Some would say yes, many would say no. To compare that to a game like AoC that is still in Beta is ridiculous.
        • IckyZ, on 05/01/2008, -0/+0When you are comparing it to one mechanic. i think its quite reasonable
    • yohnstoppable, on 05/01/2008, -0/+5LOTR is actually a very successful mmo. you don't have have 10 million subscribers to be a popular mmorpg. Just look at EQ, which never approached a fraction of that
      • Koskun, on 05/01/2008, -1/+1You can't compare subscription numbers of EQ to WoW considering at the time that EQ launched dial-up was the major, almost only, way to access the internet. Very very limiting when you had to make a game based on a 56k dial-up connection.
    • myshl0ng, on 05/01/2008, -1/+1For some reason I think you haven`t played any other Blizzard game and just like to say " Blizzard makes the best games" to make your opinion seem to have some merit.
      • Florox, on 05/01/2008, -0/+2well actually I sort of agree that "Blizzard makes the best games" is not a good argument. But... have YOU played any other Blizzard games? They´ve always been great from Warcraft I onwards. This guys really do put quality over quantity.
      • YoshinoAiki, on 05/01/2008, -0/+2Hmm, name a Blizzard game that wasn't one of the best in its genre. All the ones I have played, and I've played pretty much everything Blizzard has released, have been the best in their genre. NO ONE spends as much time polishing their product as Blizzard does. No one.
      • myshl0ng, on 05/01/2008, -0/+1For ***** sakes, I wasn`t questioning the quality of blizzard games, I was questioning whether he has played any Blizzard games besides WoW to back that claim up. I have played all Blizzard games except for WoW (if you don`t count the trial)

        Some just need a kick in the face to understand the simplest of things, jesus.
    • Asianwaste, on 05/01/2008, -0/+2SAP, mace, mace, gouge, mace, mace, mace, cheap shot, mace, mace, blinding poison, mace, mace, KILL. Hide, wait 10 seconds, repeat.
      • Koskun, on 05/01/2008, -0/+4Get better gear or respec if it is taking you that long to kill someone as a rogue.
        • Asianwaste, on 05/01/2008, -0/+2Mace rogue. Gotta make sure they go nowhere for extra annoyance.
      • dshPls, on 05/02/2008, -0/+1Spec sHs nub.
    • otros, on 05/02/2008, -0/+2crap, bad reply.

      @asianwaste: i haven't played in a long time, but you can't cheap shop at that point.
  • gyronic, on 05/01/2008, -3/+73"There's no such thing as a casual MMO player. Successful MMOs turn casual gamers into hardcore gamers – it's how they work, economically."
    • tschau, on 05/01/2008, -0/+5I'm a casual MMO player... I play WoW and hour or two every few days when I have time, and I think it's great. I'm just busy a lot.
      • topace3000, on 05/01/2008, -0/+20Go clean while you still can for the sake of god!
  • Kaitsu, on 05/01/2008, -9/+3One would hope so. But all the soon upcoming titles blow ass, Warhammer was so awful they had to withdraw the beta and Conan is in absolutely piss poor technical condition currently and has the worst world design ever, with just few weeks to release. Darkfall is suffering from Duke Nukem: Forever-syndrome and Mortal Online is over a year away still.
    • Harabeck, on 05/01/2008, -0/+1The Warhammer delay is a good sign. At least they recognize the game has problems are working to fix it.
  • wiachy, on 05/01/2008, -10/+3VANGAURD WILL KILL WOW!

    ..... nuff said
    • KaiUno, on 05/01/2008, -2/+3That'll never happen. Though Vanguard has come a long way since launch. It's actually quite enjoyable these days. That thing just needed an extra year in the oven. Too bad its disastrous launch killed off any hope for a successful existence. What are they down to now? 3 servers?
    • yohnstoppable, on 05/01/2008, -0/+4Honestly, who the ***** ever said that? I always hear people talk about the hype vanguard got, but I never saw any hype for it. People fail to realize that the hardcore raiders a very small percentage of players, and for the most part the rest of players don't give a ***** about their opinions. Just because losers in guilds like fires of heaven who have more fun spreadsheeting for hours than getting laid are jerking off over a new game doesn't mean it is hyped. Vanguard was a pos from the start, and had no chance.
    • gasin, on 05/01/2008, -3/+4The only ting that can kill WOW is CHuck Norris and he likes WOW so sorry dude, tough luck!
  • smakaho2daflo, on 05/01/2008, -19/+17This will be the end of the world.. of warcraft
    • akilleen, on 05/01/2008, -2/+10....and I feel fiiiiiiiiiiiine!
    • jinxplayer, on 05/01/2008, -3/+5We cant trust the Sword of a Thousand Truths to a noob!!
    • smakaho2daflo, on 05/01/2008, -3/+2It is stored on a 1 gig flash drive
    • YoshinoAiki, on 05/01/2008, -1/+2"How can you kill that which has no life?"
  • greenlight2001, on 05/01/2008, -14/+5Glad to say I haven't played WOW... ever.
  • divine420, on 05/01/2008, -4/+8Both Warhammer and Conan will grab a bit of market share from the burnt out wow players, but the WoTLK:xpac will take that market share back, and them some.
    • kazamx, on 05/01/2008, -2/+2WotLK doesn't really have much thats new. Othe than the new class everything else is just the same but with different models.
      • divine420, on 05/01/2008, -0/+1I agree it's all the same stuff over and over. Thus I no longer play, but story and lore wise, WoTLK sounds a ton more interesting and involving than TBC, which I think was terrible in those 2 departments, but still gave wow a boost in player base, I can only assume WoTLK will repeat that same boost, but more so than TBC did.
      • YoshinoAiki, on 05/01/2008, -0/+1Yay! New models! Even though I plan on playing AoC, and will probably try WAR, I will also for sure be getting WotLK and playing that.
        I'm such an MMO whore. They all rape me and take my money, and I like it.
        /cries
  • DalamarArgent, on 05/01/2008, -4/+48Yeah yeah yeah, Warhammer is going to be the WoWkiller, just like Guildwars, just like Fury, just like Age of Conan, just like ..... I can go on. I am sure a moderate amount of people will peel off to Warhammer, just like all the others before it, but it won't get near the player base that WoW has. The only thing that will possibly kill WoW is whatever Blizzard has in store after it.
    • shoc, on 05/01/2008, -3/+9Starcraft 2.
      • Harabeck, on 05/01/2008, -0/+1Is not an mmo, apples and oranges my friend. Now a starcraft mmo...
        • YoshinoAiki, on 05/01/2008, -0/+0Should be announced in the next couple of years.
      • DrDoom83, on 05/01/2008, -0/+1I'd play that.
    • Joey34, on 05/01/2008, -1/+10Diablo 3
      • bejayel, on 05/01/2008, -1/+3I hope to god diablo 3 isnt pay to play. The current mechanics of diablo 2 work perfectly for it. The same type of server mechanics (1-20 per game perhaps instead of 1-8) works much better if they want a game with an actual "story" / some real objective other than grinding. I certainly hope they keep the single player aspect. If Diablo 3 turns into WOW but diablo it will earn a 2 thumbs down from me.
    • dhVyse, on 05/01/2008, -9/+5WOW has always been a joke to real gamers. It's so cookie-cutter and has no original ideas. It just took off like pop music and it's the cool thing to do. People who don't normally play games play WOW. So bragging about it's playerbase(which is the most GOD AWFUL community in gaming, ever) really doesn't help your arguement.
      • DoubtingThomas, on 05/01/2008, -0/+1I would disagree, Guild Wars has THE WORST community.
        • dhVyse, on 05/01/2008, -0/+1I haven't played GW since original GW but It was never half as bad as wow.
        • theNorthcutt, on 05/01/2008, -0/+1After playing City of Heroes, every other gaming community seems horrible.
    • MaxMWood, on 05/01/2008, -2/+1Your so right. Nothing will kill WoW until they kill it themselves, by either a new MMO (I think i read they are working on one) or by updating it too much and making something that everyone loves total *****.. its hard to do but ive seen some games do it eg. PlanetSide removing XP Leeching, EVERYONE was a Leecher apart from the guy you were doing the leeching off it just sucked afterwards.
    • 1gunners4, on 05/01/2008, -0/+2Nothing has ever killed off a Blizzard game except for the newest installment of the IP. SC is still played professionally, Warcraft evolved into WoW, and D2 still crushes every other point/click adventure game out there, with Dungeon Siege coming in a distant second.
    • skcoder, on 05/02/2008, -0/+2WoW has the myspace effect going for it. You're going to have to pull quite a bit of community out of WoW before the 'next big thing' starts being competitive. I'm all for it - I tire of killing night elf after night elf. Blizz has had too much time enjoying their monopoly on the gaming industry and I would love to see some high quality competition from a competing MMORPG, or at the very least, World of Starcraft?
  • thaglove10, on 05/01/2008, -3/+10Frankly I'm pretty happy that Warcraft is dominating the market. I mean sure, it will be great for there to be more alternatives for people, but I like the fact that I never really have to worry about my MMO shutting down or being so underpopulated that you can't do anything.

    I do kinda want to check out the LoTR MMO though and haven't yet. Is it good?
    • sodade, on 05/01/2008, -0/+2I played it for a while after getting bored with WoW. It lasted about 3 months and was somewhat fun.
    • KaiUno, on 05/01/2008, -0/+2Lotro is fun. For a while. It's all quest quest quest and it gets a bit boring later on. The PvP was a good idea gone horribly wrong. You can use your regular player toon to visit a battlefield to combat monsters. These monsters are also players, but they don't have half the skills of the regular toons. Their strenght is supposed to lie in numbers, true to the Middle Earth setting. It doesn't work that way though. Usually it's just really frustrating to play a monster as it's hard to coordinate efficient attacks. Most of the times the regular players just waltz over you and your monstrous gang.

      I lasted 4 months in there.
      • kazamx, on 05/01/2008, -0/+2I take it, that you haven't played for a long time. They buffed the creeps loads. They now have ***** loads of Morale (health) and are about to receive their first healing class.
        • KaiUno, on 05/01/2008, -0/+1I got a 14 day pass with my new 8800. I'll probably head back in at some point to see what's changed.
      • getbusyliving, on 05/01/2008, -0/+1Yippie!!!!

        /s
    • MiDri, on 05/01/2008, -0/+1It's weird world we live in where we pay money to people with no guarantee our time and effort will be there a few months down the road...

      Back in the day when I played EverQuest (1) before all the expansion, I never even fathomed that the game would go bankrupt (which it never did) and that all the crazy amount of time I'd spent would be waisted. But now, when I go to pick up a new mmo I have to think -- well, sure the game might be fun... might look good, but will it have the draw necessary to keep people playing so that my time and money is not waisted?

      I guess I'm ultimately comforted by the fact that, it's an MMO and my time is waisted anyway.
      • dave122, on 05/01/2008, -0/+0to be fair if you play an MMO you waste your time and money regardless of whether it tanks.

        also, I play wow way to damn much.
      • Balloondoggies, on 05/01/2008, -1/+2you mean "wasted"?
      • Harabeck, on 05/01/2008, -0/+1The difference is how youre thinking, not the games.
    • Pootle4rthur, on 05/01/2008, -2/+1I'm finding LoTRo much more entertaining than WoW, although I've only been playing it a couple of months, so I can't say if it has longevity. The crafting system is better, and the grinding is more optional (in that it increases traits) and at least it's kill 10 of these things rather than get 10 drops that only happen 10% of the time.
    • laserdog, on 05/01/2008, -0/+3The problem with WoW, is that it doesn't have major problems.

      All the previous MMOs leaned so heavily on obsessive grinding that eventually they pushed you away from them.

      WoW really does an all too excellent job keeping a string of rewards danging in front of you, even after you max your level out.

      It's all too easy to fold into it's soft warm embrace.
      • Harabeck, on 05/01/2008, -2/+1Until you reach the end of that string(Which just takes time, say 2 or 3 months if you play regularly). Then you have to wait months for a new section of string.
        • kazamx, on 05/01/2008, -0/+2You cleared the last end game instance and got the full set in less than 3 months, holy *****. Thats impossible TBH.
    • krebcycle, on 05/01/2008, -1/+1Personally i really like LOTR, the graphics are beautiful, and the rendering of middle earth is very good. I like the quest based system, it keeps the game from being all about grinding. Half your experience points comes from solving quests. The crafting system is also really cool, all the best equipment is player crafted.
      • kevdude421, on 05/01/2008, -0/+1Agree with this. LOTRO is a fresh change from other games, and the community is FAR better than any other one. WoW is a bunch of whiny 12 year olds, AoC will be a bunch of whiny 12 year olds who love boobs and gore, and WAR is just terrible atm.
    • advocation, on 05/01/2008, -0/+0Much like other people have said, the crafting system is a lot better than WoW. But, I only played it for a little over a month and got bored with it. It has the WoW feel, with a prettier "middle earth" look. But, the problem comes in with end-game content as it just seems that there is nothing to do once you ding 50. I ended up back with WoW...but it was a fun month and a half...
      • krebcycle, on 05/02/2008, -0/+2you gained 50 levels in a month and a half? Ok, you are not the average audience.. you're not the average anything. Please remember to change your pants.
  • Goosecomics, on 05/01/2008, -10/+11Good game = good game. WoW had its time. It's no longer fun. Moving on.
  • Haroshia, on 05/01/2008, -1/+12Age of Conan. What other game lets you hit a guy in the crotch with a sledgehammer, and then knock his head off?
    • Nodaki, on 05/01/2008, -0/+1This is what was sorely missing from WoW. I quit WoW about 6 months ago, looking for a vicious replacment.
    • kevdude421, on 05/01/2008, -1/+3Too bad that the boobs and gore are it's only selling points, and are only there to mask terrible boring and unbalanced gameplay.
  • smakaho2daflo, on 05/01/2008, -2/+48I want Diablo 3
    • gasin, on 05/01/2008, -3/+3lets sign an petition for this!!!
    • smakaho2daflo, on 05/01/2008, -1/+2I think there is already one. There is alot of news of certain things happening that could lead to the creation of diablo 3. I read some ***** about how the orchestra who made the music for diablo 1 and 2 is working on a top secret project. Hopefully its d3.
    • Harabeck, on 05/01/2008, -0/+3Go look at class/spell names for Diablo and WoW. WoW=Diablo 3
    • vx69, on 05/01/2008, -2/+2Wait for Mythos then.
      • theaceoffire, on 05/01/2008, -0/+1^_^ I got into the beta.
        It is already tons of fun.
        • Valyn, on 05/01/2008, -0/+2Yea, its pretty fuin, but needs balancing and more content. It relies a little too much on random dungeons. Races are the exact same with different looks. Only 3 classes (with only 1 or 2 viable build options). Very fun though.

          I do like the 5 man epic maps though where you killing baddies by the 100's.
          • theaceoffire, on 05/01/2008, -0/+2O.o I haven't tried the main epic maps... I keep using the ones dropped by mobs.

            Anywho, the coolest thing I found is the flexability... you can either learn 10 abilities now, become great at a couple, or save up to get a really high level ability as your first one.

            For example, you can be a mage who doesn't use spells... spend all your points on stuff that doesn't need casting (Increased damage with weapons, critical hits, etc). You can have a fighter who can build his own army, a gadget dude who can wipe out an army single handedly...

            Its impressive.
    • smakaho2daflo, on 05/01/2008, -0/+1 OK the spell names and classes are the same. Find a rpg that does not have similar spell names. I wish there were more words in the english language to call a paladin or a sorceress. This of some will you. Then tell me how many games are like diablo 2 and WOW. Good argument retard.
      • smakaho2daflo, on 05/01/2008, -1/+0i don't know how to spell *****. this of some will you. i guess i am the tard
    • Shuk, on 05/01/2008, -0/+2Good news. Blizzard just bought diablo3.com. Oh... but Blizzard says that doesn't "confirm" anything. Sure Blizzard... we all know what's happening here.
    • GODsPC, on 05/01/2008, -0/+4Diablo 3 is probably the only game that would make me quit playing WOW
      • GoteamVenture, on 05/01/2008, -2/+1Check out Hellgate London. It's not done by Blizzard, but apparently it's the same guys that did Diablo and Diablo 2, just different company. It's pretty good and you can play online with a friend without paying a monthly subscription fee. It's keeping my husband and I entertained.
        • sgtpppr, on 05/02/2008, -0/+2Hellgate London is not even remotely close to being a replacement for Diablo 3. The game was utterly pointless. It has more bugs than an EA game and is somewhere between a root canal and digging ditches on the fun-o-meter.
    • sgtpppr, on 05/01/2008, -0/+3And Hellgate is NOT Diablo 3. I gave that game every possible benefit of the doubt and in the end, it sucked balls. What a waste of money.
  • MichaelEgan, on 05/01/2008, -3/+46"The next WoW killer?" = "The next iPhone killer?" = "The next Google killer?" FUD articles that aren't really worth taking seriously.
    • nbcaffeine, on 05/01/2008, -1/+2Do you know what FUD means? I think you mean "Baseless hype articles"
    • outsid3rNo17, on 05/01/2008, -1/+1iPhone? You mean iPod?
    • darling, on 05/01/2008, -0/+1My memory and attention's not so good, but have there actually been any successful, "killers" labeled as such?
  • Raignn, on 05/01/2008, -10/+2Anyone wandering around blathering about how bad Warhammer beta is, is not only breaking NDA but most likely got kicked out for being a douche. Not exactly the most reliable source of information.

    A ton of new information has been released in the last 4 weeks that show the game is coming along nicely and looks like it will be a lot of fun. They extended beta to polish and balance the game further. Lets reserve speculation until oh, how about the NDA being lifted.

    Age of Conan looks like it's going to be a disaster, which who knows, maybe it will surprise us all and be a hit, which would be nothing but good for the gaming community as a whole. Competition = win for consumers.
    • Pootle4rthur, on 05/01/2008, -0/+2so, in short, you're suggesting that people shouldn't have an opinion on a game they're playing, or if they do they shouldn't share it with anyone.
      • krogothwolf, on 05/01/2008, -1/+1He's saying if these people are actually playing the game, WarHammer Online, Then they shouldn't be talking about it due to the Non Discloser Act they are forced to sign before playing it. Basing a game on a closed beta is kinda pointless at this time, when it becomes open then go at it. Yes we'd be fools to think every single individual who signs a NDA would keep quiet, but they really should.
    • Variz, on 05/01/2008, -0/+3I disagree. As a member of practically every major MMO beta to date I can tell you that those people breaking the NDA are historically typically spot on.

      Don't discount their opinions "because they are breaking the NDA".

      Your view of "information that has been released in the last 4 weeks" was from a marketing department. They can spin anything to look tremendous. Remember the INCREDIBLE AC2 advertisements?
  • alexjsolis, on 05/01/2008, -10/+3Just wait until Blizzard teams up with Activision and releases Word of Call of Duty. Then we will have something worth playing.
    • Dohko_Xar, on 05/01/2008, -1/+4I pray for Activision never to mess with Blizzard, they are ok by themselves.
    • Wintermute426, on 05/02/2008, -0/+1Pfft, World of Guitar Heroes will be the WoCoD-killer!
  • DrDragun, on 05/01/2008, -2/+22First Molten Core raid was my best WoW experience period. All downhill from there until I quit over a year ago.

    It felt like a block party seeing so many familiar characters hanging out, exchanging mats and crafting things at the zone-in, while we looked toward those 2 gigantic Molten Giants waiting for us ominously.
    • Malarie, on 05/01/2008, -1/+4Amen to that!! I felt likethat in AQ too, when we finally killed Huhuran with our Maraudon Blue Nature Resist gear on
    • yohnstoppable, on 05/01/2008, -1/+3My first MC raid consisted of us zoning in, realizing our raid was split into 2 instances, then leaving. God the raid lockout bug sucked back then. Although at least it saved us from having to do ***** mc
    • zephyr42, on 05/01/2008, -1/+8i got burned out... stopped playing for a year and a half, started it back up to play with my sister and some real life friends. Honestly that's the only way i'll play... if i know people.
    • kazamx, on 05/01/2008, -0/+6I think MC was the pinnacle for a lot of people. Your first ever 40 man was one hell of an experience. After that it all started to feel like you were on a treadmill trying to keep up with them releasing new instances.
      • jgzman, on 05/01/2008, -2/+3I never liked 40-man raids. Never.
        Heck, I barely liked UBRS, and it was only what, ten, fifteen?
      • mooninite, on 05/01/2008, -0/+1You're thinking of caps... which long ago, there were no caps and there were 40-man UBRS runs. Pointless? Yes.
        • jgzman, on 05/01/2008, -0/+1I was there day one, but never paid attention to such things. Thanks for the correction.
          • Malarie, on 05/02/2008, -0/+1OMG the pain it was to find a leet player with the ubrs key back then...
  • galeninjapan, on 05/01/2008, -1/+19I really wish the warhammer MMO was for the 40K universe and not the fantasy universe.
  • modex, on 05/01/2008, -8/+2In terms of game development companies, Mythic has always been more "for the people" than the conglomerate of ***** that is Blizzard. It's a shame EA had to buy out Mythic and potentially ruin them. All is not lost yet though. It seems Mythic still has creative control over their work, the most recent example being that they pushed back the release date instead of releasing a half done piece of *****.

    It sucks that they sold out to EA, but I still think the people at Mythic are cooler and more down to earth than the yuppie California trash over at Blizzard.
    • Slogo, on 05/01/2008, -1/+0It's different with EA on this one (kinda).
      A normal game you can release 1/2 done or as a PoS or whatever and still sell a good amount of copies if it is hyped well and somewhat decent or attractive to players. By time they buy it and get into the flaws of the game EA has already made their money.
      So it's different this time. EA wants a WoW. They want a huge monthly influx of money from a good subscriber base. They know they have no chance at all of this happening unless they release a good game that's well polished. So I think they're more than willing to let Mythic do its thing on this one.
      • modex, on 05/01/2008, -0/+2Blizzard pretty much stole from Games Workshop. The whole Orcs v. Humans thing was around as a table top game long before Warcraft (it was a warhammer table top game).
        Blizzard went to Games Workshop and asked for a license to use their tabletop and convert it into an RTS video game. Games Workshop said "NO U" so Blizzard went and made their own flavor of Orcs v. Humans called Warcraft (instead of WarHammer). Pretty ***** cheap if you ask me.
        Mythic actually has a license from Games Workshop to make the WarHammer MMO. WoW is the cheap knockoff. Mythic is working on the real deal from the original idea that spawned from Games Workshop.

        Suck on that Blizzard fanbois.

        DAoC's endgame was also way more exciting and motivating than WoW.
        • pak314, on 05/01/2008, -0/+2And Games Workshop stole the orcs vs humans conflict from LOTR (the books.)
          • theaceoffire, on 05/01/2008, -0/+3And LOTR stole it from middle earth. Many Bothans died to get us that information.
    • Malarie, on 05/01/2008, -1/+2Did Mythic had annual conventions for its community? Did they have hundreads of forums on their website? Did they made server wide events in their games? Did they make a conference in asia to annouce their next game?
      • Slogo, on 05/01/2008, -1/+1Was mythic one of the largest video game companies before they released Dark Ages of Camelot? Was Mythic one of the most successful video game companies before they released Dark Ages of Camelot?
      • modex, on 05/01/2008, -0/+1All those conventions are a facade to make it look like Blizzard cares about their subscribers.
        I loved the grab bags they had for DAoC back in the day. The first expansion for the game was great too, unlike WoW:TBC. Unfortunately, Mythic really screwed up with the second expansion for DAoC (ToA) which sent the game downhill, but at least they got the first one alright. The subsequent expansions were not bad, but at that point it was too little too late.
        TBC sucked and I'm sure the next WotLK will be another steaming pile of PvE and level cap increases. But I guess some people like having all their gear turn to ***** every year or so.
        The only thing Blizzard did right with WoW was the "feel" of the controls and gameplay mechanics. The content itself sucked. If they could've made a DAoC out of the WoW engine, that would have been a great game. The original WoW, before TBC, was actually pretty fun. It's too bad I didn't start playing until a few months before the xpac came out.
        Hopefully this WAR game turns out to be a really good hit, at least for the PvP player base. If not, there's always GTA IV and masturbation.
    • modex, on 05/01/2008, -0/+1hmm dugg down already.. i knew the majority of the digg user base was on the west coast ;)
      • jgzman, on 05/01/2008, -0/+1No the majority of Digg users are Blizzard fans, and for good reason.
        I will admit, I neither know nor care anything about Blizzard further away than my terminal. I know they release games, good games mostly, and they have an enormous amount of brand loyalty. The only reason I no longer play WoW, is because I will not raid, and I will not grind, and I don't feel like leveling another character.
  • killdashnine, on 05/01/2008, -1/+5WoW has an exceptional lead on the market, period. They constantly improve the game and enhance it. While I welcome new alternatives, unless WoW goes to crap or loses my interest I probably won't even bother looking at alternatives.
  • Deaconstructed, on 05/01/2008, -11/+7omfg... that screenshot looks like a pile of blue puke... bury me all you want WoW players, but that game looks so ridiculously ugly.
  • yohnstoppable, on 05/01/2008, -1/+7I don't think any of them will compete with WOW for sales, but both AOC and WAR will take chunks out of WOW's unhappy pvp base.
    • skatastrophy, on 05/01/2008, -1/+1Agreed. WAR will be another WoW clone, but isn't anything spectacular. Ages of Conan looks like it may be the next generation game that DAoC fans have been waiting for.
  • Goosecomics, on 05/01/2008, -2/+6Snape kills World of Warcrat
    • Goosecomics, on 05/01/2008, -2/+3I just noticed my spelling error. WTB edit.. >.>
  • jjustice, on 05/01/2008, -1/+11"Wily" new opponents? Mega Man MMO!?!?! =]
  • mogebier, on 05/01/2008, -1/+3Warhammer might be able to compete, but I played LOTR in the Beta and it is a very weak copy of WoW without all the gloss and polish that WoW has. It felt like a WoW beta with LOTR references in it.
    • krebcycle, on 05/01/2008, -0/+3I disagree, I found LOTR to be refreshing and a lot of fun, with far fewer assholes and a much more elegant advancement system, better graphics, and the richness of their rendering of Middle Earth is very well done.
    • kevdude421, on 05/01/2008, -0/+1You clearly didn't play LOTRO very much.
    • kazersoza, on 05/02/2008, -0/+2I did LOTRO back a the Fielplanet beta .. last year. .had the same feeling. However, back then .. WoW was is full BC swing. I went back .. and LOTRO has gotten 10X better IMO. And with WoW feeling like a PVE job (no more fun for me). I find LOTR refreshing ... it has that "new MMO" smell".
      SO I quit WoW a few weeks ago and now playing LOTRO.
      • Wintermute426, on 05/02/2008, -0/+2I'd just like to second this comment. I lasted about two days in the LOTRO beta, and not even early beta but near the end, and hated it. Came back a couple months ago when I saw it for $10, and was amazed at how much it's been improved.
    • duece95, on 05/02/2008, -0/+1Typical comment by a WOW baby who thinks WOW was an orginal game. "Very weak copy of WoW without all the gloss and polish that WoW has". Are you kidding me? Wow looks like a cartoon.
  • j0se, on 05/01/2008, -4/+6WoW will kill itself. Got so sick making PVE a job and PVP is retarded. Make preset characters in-game then ill think about playing again. and no I don't want to have to pay an extra 20 dollars to play on an arena tournament server.
    • skcoder, on 05/02/2008, -0/+1Whats your email? I can send you a scroll of resurrection and get 30 days of free gaming when you decide to come back.
  • pewpewarrows, on 05/01/2008, -8/+2For those WoW addict naysayers who keep religiously saying over and over again about how crappy Warhammer Online is: boy are you in for a rude awakening when it finally releases. The level 10-20 RvR content is more fun, engaging, and balanced than endgame WoW PvP ever was. Keep sieges are ridiculously fun and keep you coming back for more every time. Even in the PvE department (for which WoW is always trumpeted as the greatest) WAR shines. Public quests are a great twist on giving pick up groups the fun of raiding without the endless wipes, repair bills, and having to devote endless hours a week in attempts. There are lairs (read: WoW instances) everywhere you look. Beta testers haven't even gotten to experience the cou-de-gra, the City Siege, and yet the game is more than enough to have us quit WoW in a heartbeat right now.

    WoW is old, aged, and antiqued. Time to let your characters retire and move on to the next generation of MMOs.
    • zephyr42, on 05/01/2008, -0/+1. . .WoW pvp was fun, until arena. Now no one goes out and does environmental PVP like in the olden days of Southshore and Tauren mill. Everyone just wants to arena which is almost entirely gear based.

      I've heard both good and bad things about warhammer, for most people that play wow and enjoy it... they won't be going over to it.
      • yohnstoppable, on 05/01/2008, -0/+1World pvp will never return to wow. Blizzard purposely killed it off due to lag/server crashes and players complaining about zergs.
      • DoubtingThomas, on 05/01/2008, -0/+1Agreed, arena killed WoW pvp. It seems that all class balance is focused around arena now. I also hate the fact that almost every class only has a single, viable build for arenas.
    • Harabeck, on 05/01/2008, -0/+2I swear theres already a AoC vs WAR war going on.
    • darkism, on 05/01/2008, -2/+1Or, you know, get a life.
  • suzywang3000, on 05/01/2008, -13/+4that's exactly what the world needs... more frigging losers...
    • maddskillz, on 05/01/2008, -0/+7losers will exist with or without a game to play.
    • Pootle4rthur, on 05/01/2008, -1/+3people doing something that gives them pleasure, what losers, eh?
      • darkism, on 05/01/2008, -3/+1Smokers smoke because it gives them pleasure.
        Addiction to smoking will kill you.
        Addiction to MMOs will make you a loser.
    • Armitage2k, on 05/01/2008, -1/+1Hey, at least the MMO space will keep these losers out of your way, so you can drink more beer, and spend more time emptying yourself in the bathroom...
  • highlyhigh, on 05/01/2008, -7/+0there needed to be a competition for WoW for a long time. this game has been long in the tooth for years now. it's graphics already look like it was from the 80s... lol, 80s.
    • AlexanderZero, on 05/01/2008, -0/+4Have you ever played a game from the 1980s?
    • DoubtingThomas, on 05/01/2008, -1/+1Meh, I prefer the stylized graphics over realistic any day.
    • highlyhigh, on 05/02/2008, -2/+0SHAT DA FAK AP MATHAFAKAS. A AM A-MAN, MADAFAKANFAKS.
  • sodoh, on 05/01/2008, -3/+6"There's no such thing as a casual MMO player. Successful MMOs turn casual gamers into hardcore gamers – it's how they work, economically."

    Sorry but this is BS. MMO make the most money from gamers who are not hardcore but have something that will hook them to the game.

    To give you some good examples.
    1. Ultima Online - In this game you could buy a house. You had to log in at least once a week and refresh the house or it would vanish along with what you own. Many people who had played for a year or more would of easily owned a good bit of real estate. I knew many players who for all intents and purposes had quit UO (didn't play the game) but refused to quit the subscription and often logged in once a week to refresh and then left. Mainly believing the game would improve later on.

    This was a huge boon for UO because it meant you had a person paying the full subscription while using almost zero of the server resources.

    Asherons Call could of done this as well and kept many players in the game but they instead opted to have real estate as power gamers only (had to find rare stuff and craft it every so often).

    2. City of Heroes/Villians. This game can be played Hard core, but for the most part the game is log in, play for a few dots and missions and log out (once the new-ness wears off). It is addictive and when you have done everything there is still enough in the game to keep most players coming back if only for an hour a week.

    So the money is made in keeping subscribers and having those subscribers play as little as often. WoW tried this at the start of the game by just stopping people logging in ;) ;p ;)

    Warhammer Online, I don't know. I had actually spoken to people who were working on the initial idea stage many years ago and some of the stuff they were throwing around would turn most MMO people off playing. I haven't been keeping track of the game so it is possible they have come to their senses since then.
    • smakaho2daflo, on 05/01/2008, -5/+1I did not read any of this. I just saw that you typed alot and think you should invest your time in something else besides writing books on digg. I will contact a publisher for this unabridged novel above.
      • YoshinoAiki, on 05/01/2008, -0/+1I guess some people can't read more than a few sentences before their eyes cross and their brains turn off?
        • Wintermute426, on 05/02/2008, -0/+1The same people who'd consider Viva La Bam to be a more highbrow alternative to Jackass.
    • Pootle4rthur, on 05/01/2008, -0/+1I'm not saying it was hideously addictive but City of Heroes gave me RSI
    • Diggilas, on 05/01/2008, -0/+0World Of Warcraft has started to do the same thing by introducing the daily quests.

      Before I quit I knew a ton of people who would log on everyday for a few hours just to do all the daily quests that they added.
  • thehype2049, on 05/01/2008, -7/+3I quit WOW about 1 and 1/2 years ago, it was getting boring and pale. Ive been waiting for War hammer Online ever since!!!
  • blah247, on 05/01/2008, -1/+3I was a fan of WoW for about a year. I try to play most MMO's that come out. I'm currently in WAR beta and I can tell you that this game is going to take the more hardcore PvP crowd who isn't overly attached to their game character away from WoW.
  • Draphilius, on 05/01/2008, -6/+6No matter how much I would like to try out Conan or Warhammer, I will not play them. It's not due to a matter of gameplay, setting, or graphics......but a matter of compatibility. I'm a Mac user, and since it looks like there won't be Mac versions of these games, then I shall continue playing World of Warcraft.

    (Yeah, I know you can use Boot Camp to run Windows on a Mac. But, after using Windows for the past 10+ years I'm NOT going back.)
    • Harabeck, on 05/01/2008, -0/+3Not even just to play a game?
    • Nodaki, on 05/01/2008, -2/+1You have a computer that can play one or two popular games. If you are a gamer you are on the WRONG platform.
    • kalishinko, on 05/01/2008, -0/+1Honestly, WAR will probably have a Mac client after too long due to the fact EA has been releasing a lot of their games with Mac "ports" lately. It will probably play fine too due to the fact WAR isn't that intensive of a game. Playing MMOs on a Mac which has a broken version of Ventrilo can be a real challenge though.
    • sb66, on 05/01/2008, -3/+6Buy a real computer?
  • wynja, on 05/01/2008, -2/+5Where's my sci-fi MMO damn it?!?!?
    • Shivian, on 05/01/2008, -3/+3Tabula Rasa
    • drmangrum, on 05/01/2008, -1/+4SWG?
      Eve?
      • boredsam, on 05/01/2008, -2/+3Eve is horrible.
      • YoshinoAiki, on 05/01/2008, -0/+1Eve Fails due to the most boring grinding ever, and also the worst death penalty in any MMO ever.
        SWG fails because the NGE which basically destroyed everything that was unique about the gameplay and also eliminated all the time players spent on their characters trying to unlock their jedi. Massive FAIL
    • topace3000, on 05/01/2008, -0/+3There are actually quite a few... but it's true, fantasy "swords and dragons" mmos are way too prevalent.
    • DeathMote, on 05/01/2008, -0/+0Look up Tabula Rasa. I haven't played it though or know much about it
    • kazamx, on 05/01/2008, -0/+7Eve

      WARNING: here is a graph showing the learning curve of EvE v other MMOs
      http://upload.0x1011.org/files/LearningCurve.jpg
    • Harabeck, on 05/01/2008, -0/+2Eve is Sci-Fi, its very niche though. What we really need is an mmo that allows you to fight in space and on the surface of planets over control of of resources, like what a real space war would be like.
      • junaru, on 05/01/2008, -3/+3Yeah, ever heard of moon mining in eve? Participated in fleets trying to take/defend them? No ? thought so..
    • yohnstoppable, on 05/01/2008, -4/+1There are sci-fi mmorpgs, but they all suck.
      • chokeaduck, on 05/01/2008, -1/+1I don't know about that, I know people that switched to Eve to get rid of their WoW addiction, only to become even more addicted to Eve.
    • theNorthcutt, on 05/01/2008, -0/+0They do pretty much all suck. I played Tabula Rasa in beta and retail and it got boring quick. EVE is fairly dry since you're stuck in a ship the whole time, but I've heard it can be fun if your loot of choice is money.

      Your best bet as far as non-fantasy MMORPGs go, in my opinion, is City of Heroes. I played it for 2 years and only stopped because I broke up with my ex and lost my playing partner.
  • daridave, on 05/01/2008, -5/+5I would love to see some competition there, especially on PRICING. WTF, man. What a silly cashcow WoW is, and even though many/most of you will not like me for it, that's why I refuse to play the game. THey're making too much money out of it, I have no respect for Blizzard and their stupid fees.
    • Harabeck, on 05/01/2008, -0/+2Blizz's fees are identical to all other mmo's... 15 bucks a month is standard unless you want to play a crappy asian free-to-play mmo.
      • YoshinoAiki, on 05/01/2008, -0/+2Doesn't mean I wouldn't rather pay $10 per moth instead of $15. I blame SWG for being one of the first to charge more per month to play.
    • Malevolant, on 05/01/2008, -0/+2.50 a day is nothing, unless you're bitter and poor, which it sounds like you are.
    • Bakebehe, on 05/04/2008, -0/+1Nooooo they're making more money than me, I hate them!
  • Sivvy, on 05/01/2008, -0/+1http://www.battle.net/window.shtml
  • jughead789, on 05/01/2008, -1/+8NEEEERDS!!

    Just a movie reference no need to get pissed;)
    • YoshinoAiki, on 05/01/2008, -0/+0Don't forget the chant:
      "Nerds! Nerds! Nerds! Nerds! Nerds!"
  • lazyfisherman, on 05/01/2008, -2/+13World of Warcraft's #1 opponent in 2008: Real Life
  • Tserk, on 05/01/2008, -1/+17Digg threads are the Barrens chat of the internet.
  • zareh, on 05/01/2008, -0/+0I've played a lot of Fantasy MMOs... I'm so tired of it, I've tryed Anarchy Online for about a year after it came out, I recently tryed Eve and didn't like it at all. Does anyone have a suggestion for any Sci-Fi MMOs?

    I've looked into RF Online, and Tabula Rasa.. RF Online looks like a massive grind the entire time, and from reading some forum posts on mmorpg.com I got the impression that TR is actually declining?!

    • theNorthcutt, on 05/01/2008, -1/+0City of Heroes. Not sci-fi but at least it's not fantasy. It's got bustling cities with cars driving and people walking around and you get to be a superhero.
    • Vanor, on 05/02/2008, -0/+0Monster Hunter. Trust me, it's not fantasy at all. Imagine if cavemen had access to late 1800s technology and had to fight pseudo-prehistoric beasts, and that sums it up pretty well. I've playe MH series for 4 years now, and played WoW for only 7 months. Trust me, MH is the only online game I can imagine that can honestly call itself a game. Most other contemporary MMOs are more overglorified chat interfaces than they are games, and that goes especially for WoW.

      Besides, the newest MH lets you have a cat run around blow ***** up for you. How can that not be fun? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_WvHmw1tY5Y
  • ConceptualTrap, on 05/01/2008, -3/+4Until Age of Conan releases a free trial I refuse to buy it. There's no way I'm sinking 50$ on a game just to find out that I have no desire to play it after an hour.

    The lack of open beta and no suggestion at a free trial at launch is just evidence to me that they think their game sucks ass.
    • jzuska, on 05/01/2008, -4/+2yep. I put down 5 bones and that's all im putting down. Their 3 hour betas were so horrible I went to only 1 for 15 minutes. It's was horrible.
    • Beatmiser, on 05/01/2008, -1/+2Open beta starts today from Fileplanet.
    • sb66, on 05/01/2008, -0/+2DUH open beta starts today.
    • 1gunners4, on 05/01/2008, -0/+3Like the two gents said above me, open beta started an hour ago. Though the coincidental timing of your comment is glorious.
  • fullphaser, on 05/01/2008, -4/+5You know why wow is so successful? Because Blizz was smart enough to do it right, and by right I mean they made a chat room with simple control to keep you entertained, thats why it is so big. Its because its simple from level 1-70.
    • aladrin, on 05/01/2008, -0/+3It's not just simple... It allows you to make it more complex by hunting certain armors or whatnot. If you -want- to, you can spend a lot of time getting your armor and weapons just right.

      Or you can just play the game.

      I've played a lot of MMOs and I don't find WoW to have been the best of them, but it's certainly got something that draws the people in that the others didn't. Other than this range of detail ('just play' to 'micromanage'), I don't really see a difference between it and the others.
      • Vanor, on 05/02/2008, -0/+0WoW's biggest flaw is the lack of real control you have over your characters and the game world. Everything is on chance in the game unless you do quests (which usually has crap rewards that your class doesn't need or even if it is, is nigh useless due to stats), or you do PvP, or you do raids (blech). The only certainty of getting gear in that game is in PvP, or in arenas to be exact. The game also insults your intelligence with it's "get X amount of X thing's body parts" but usually X thing doesn't always give you what you need even though it could be something's leg, or hoof, or whatever. I hate that crap. Having EVERYTHING in your game literally be on the roll of a dice is stupid and clearly an outdated mechanic that needs to be drug out behind the barn and shot once and for all.

        Fortunately unlike most losers who think that the only online games were playing are on their computer, maybe you all should look into playing a series that really has revolutionized how online GAMES should play:

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_WvHmw1tY5Y
    • theNorthcutt, on 05/01/2008, -1/+0It doesn't hurt that the Warhammer franchise had a huge following beforehand and also the fact that people will sit for hours and hours grinding to get better and better loot.
  • jzuska, on 05/01/2008, -2/+1WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGGGHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!
  • tschau, on 05/01/2008, -0/+1WoW managed to become so normal. Everyone knows about it, all sorts of different people play it. It has a feeling of legitimacy that the other MMOs just don't have.

    since playing Warcraft II for the first time, Blizzard has impressed me every step of the way.
    • modex, on 05/01/2008, -0/+1I couldn't stand playing with all the mainstream noobs in that game.
      • tschau, on 05/01/2008, -0/+1Yeah. Which is why these other games might be better and pull over lots of people like you. That'll still probably leave WoW on top overall.
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