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youtube.com - Best Buy employee, Danielle Kelly, sings her way into holiday campaign.
61 Comments
- alf86, on 10/12/2007, -5/+36Great news. I haven't gotten a new console since my Sega Genesis, but I have been looking forward to getting a Wii. This just excites me that much more.
- Sirocco, on 10/12/2007, -1/+28>> What I'd really like is a good breakdown on the costs and where the differences arise.
1. Familiarity with existing APIs. If you've done gamecube dev'ing, you've done Wii dev'ing and never even knew it.
2. SD graphics means less dev time setting up extreme high-fidelity meshes, textures, terrain geometry, and animation sequences.
3. You don't have to worry about programming for multiple processors, which is a total bitch and will make your life miserable.
4. Although the Wii is supposedly 2-3x the raw power of a cube, it is by no means a gigantic leap in terms of power, meaning that it will be much easier to developers with gamecube experience to estimate what resources and time they will need to finish a project. Mistakes in this area will cost you DEARLY.
There are plenty of other areas, but those are the main ones I can think of. - iluvatar, on 10/12/2007, -5/+30You make a good point. All that power can be used to create better AI and physics. But it almost never is. They work on physics, but only to make the overall graphics look better. I've yet to hear any developer say they want to put aside a core on the 360 or PS3 just for AI. Even in the PC world smart AI has been put aside for prettier graphics. When was the last time you played a game and thought the opponents were truly challenging; smart opponents that learn from what you do and use it against you. The only time I encounter challenging enemies is because something is stacked against me: they outnumber me, the get a speed boost, they can find you no matter what, etc...
So all this power COULD be used to truly enhance gameplay. But it never is. So maybe if the Wii is successful, developers will realize that graphics won't sell a game by themselves anymore and we'll see devs putting more work into smart AI (Which we probably won't see given Microsoft's assertion that multiplayer is the only way to go) and games will improve for the better. Until then, bring on the Wii! - Antialias, on 10/12/2007, -2/+26Neotechni,
While I agree that AI and physics will be improved with 360/ps3, the AI hasn't gotten very impressive yet. For instance with RTS games, we're still seeing the same dumb behaviors that we saw in games like Dune2 and Warcraft 2 from 10 years ago. And most games today still have the dumb idea that if some guards spot you, you can go hide for 30 seconds and they forget about you.
As for physics, I think it will make the game more immersive, but I don't they they will add much to gameplay. Games have been using scripted events like buildings collapsing for a reason. Having random events based on your actions effecting the physics of the game world can be a nightmare for game play testing. I think we'll get their eventually, but it's going to take very smart programming, not just a powerful system to do. - FreakTrap, on 10/12/2007, -3/+26I still think $50-$60 for a game is too expensive...
- RazorElite, on 10/12/2007, -3/+24Wow, that's some money! Games are definitely getting too expensive to develop, and it's good that services like XBLA have been created. At $12mil for the development of a Wii title, it's no wonder a few developers are beginning to steer away from the PS3. That can be a lot of money to risk, especially if the game isn't a smash hit. Ah well...that's the price they must pay for us graphic hungry next-gen whores. But hey, we pay it as well...at $60 per next-gen title.
- beervolcano, on 10/12/2007, -5/+25^
You're dugg down. Marked as lame. - ConkerBFD, on 10/12/2007, -2/+19Wii articles are submitted by people who think an article will be of interest to people who are interested in the Wii.
Lots of people are interested in the Wii.
People digg articles that interest them.
Therefore, people interested in the Wii digg Wii articles. - kilworth, on 10/12/2007, -2/+17Oh, I think the -diggs show me that you guys don't agree..
Well i'll STFU now.. - alvinrod, on 10/12/2007, -3/+18I'm a bit skeptical without having more information or at least more sources that could verify or lend support to such a claim.
I can understand that developing a game with HD quality would require more detailed graphics, and thus more cost in terms of time, but double or more the cost? I'm also not familiar with how easy it is to program for the Wii's controller, but if it's largely different than traditional controllers, wouldn't it also take more time as well?
What I'd really like is a good breakdown on the costs and where the differences arise. - CaptShmo, on 10/12/2007, -1/+11it's okay man, just there's a lot of people pumped about the wii and we're happy to have it show up on digg so often, if it was something that interested you that was showing up all the time then i would imagine you would be happy too. go watch some wii videos and get pumped about it too and join the party. =D
- kilworth, on 10/12/2007, -1/+9Good idea, i'll try to get in the Wii thing ^^
This was just the thought i had when i read another Wii-related Topic, but the masses make the news so i shouldn't complain..
Any news yet what i will be able to do with my DS together with the Wii? ;) - KJSatz, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7Yeah, because the Gamecube wasn't selling too well, and Nintendo probably had a few reservations given all the contraversy around it. The Gamecube is way more powerful than the PS2.
- tizz66, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7"The worlds most in-depth Nintendo resource"
Could have fooled me, I don't think I've ever seen another article less in-depth. No sources, not much information, no background. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8@ kanime
People in Brian Farrell of THQ's position are the people who are dealing with devolpment costs, call me crazy but I feel as though a president of a game development company is an excellent source of game development costs. - TimDigg, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6The big question that I have...what interests small devs more
Low Dev costs or installed user base?
Ps2 was considered to be much more difficult to develop for yet it still got all the small game houses - masamunecyrus, on 10/12/2007, -4/+10$60 on the Xbox 360 and PS3, but only $50 on the Wii.
- Antialias, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6So you're saying that no ps2 or xbox game should be $50? They are saying that the Wii dev cost is in line with the CURRENT generation, while the 360 and PS3 dev costs are 2-3x higher. We're lucky that 360/PS3 games are not going for $100.
I'm excited that the Wii dev costs will be less hopefully it will lead to longer games, and more time put into gameplay and new types of games. - felyduw, on 10/12/2007, -3/+9What amazes me is that someone wastes his time making a user for a site and the username for it is something who tries do be depreciative. I guess his goal is to be the most digged down user on digg.
- rnwightman, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5IMHO a good 13 hour game is much more enjoyable one than a 20+ hour which struggles to keep your attention throughout. MGS on the good ol' PSOne was around 9 hours or so (if my memory serves me) and was a great game.
- staticneuron, on 10/12/2007, -4/+8no no you mustn't look petty. You have to make it seem justified.
Nintendo= good games = fun = good; therefore Nintendo = good
Sony = pretty games - fun = bad games/expensive to the pwer of WTF = nasty rootkit = arrogance+expensive = propritery tech* evil drm + end of the world/ godzilla = bad; therefore Sony = bad....+ expensive
there.... now you will fit in digg - lostluck, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5Isn't that hard to do when eventually, most people will block him, and never see his comments at all?
- ScottG13, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4We've been hearing rumors about the low cost of Wii development compared to 360/PS3. Its nice to hear a company speak out about it and confirm that widely held belief.
- CaptShmo, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5yup, the DS might double as a wii controller, and they might eventually offer a DS type adapter for the wii to play games on the big screen, that's all rumor though.
- underthewether, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4is it just me or do all of these development costs seem high? $12,000,000/$50 = 240,000; $24,000,000/$60 = 400,000 games that need to be sold to break even. If this is the price for game development, then I'm amazed that anyone makes games at all. Unless they have a hit that sells 500,000 to a million units, they barely make any money.
- Sirocco, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4There's a balance to be achieved by platform selection. If you are going to develop an absolute blockbuster game for a smaller platform that you predict 10% of the install base will pick up, that can outweigh the risk of developing a game for a widely adopted platform where you have to compete with 30 new games coming out that month, meaning probably less than 1% of the install base will pick up your game.
It's a numbers game, all right. - NSMike, on 10/12/2007, -7/+10Does this make anyone else a little angry?
I mean, 1/2 - 1/4 cheaper development, yet still $50 games?
I think they could justify a price point drop to $40. - IanCube, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5Not really, when you think about it this IS a next-gen console, and that price is still cheaper than Xbox 360 games and certainly what PS3 games will cost.
You have to think of it in terms of value: just because some games are going to be $50, does not mean that some publishers will price some games above that, and other below it. It hinges on the value you get out of the experience playing the title. If the Wii brings a new experience to Madden that you can't get on either the 360 or PS3, then it's fully worth $50 or more. - bjkrautk, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3This may be obvious, but if the games cost 1/2 - 1/4 as much to make, yet can still be sold for $40-50 retail....the profit margins for Wii titles are going to be huge.
It's going to be interesting to see how the Wii stacks up against the other consoles for non-exclusive 3rd party sales. Will gamers be swayed by High-definition gaming (XBox 360 / PS3), "points" (360), or lower prices (Wii) and the Wii controller? - KJSatz, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Of course, if the Wii gets both low cost (a given) and a massive userbase....
Remember, Sony and M$ are preaching Wii as a "secondary" console, plus the people who will just pick up Wii because it costs less... - TheG2, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Digg Effected? Dugg mirror doesn't carry the story..stupid frames.
- piratearggghhh, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2The reason why Wii games are cheap to develop for is because they can half ass the graphics and rely on people's obsession with the controller. They're basically last gen games ported with a new controller. Seriously, what games have they shown that's a AAA title except Twilight Princess (which is a very delayed GC game)? I mean I thought gaming was about the games, not the hardware. Red Steal wouldn't even get a second look if it were on any other console. Will games like this hold up with the big games come out for 360/PS3? (GTA, Halo, FF, Gears of War, Metal Gear, Mass Effect etc.)
I'm not trying to offend potential Wii owners, just trying to understand what's making you so excited. I'll probably get one if there are some games that interest me. - stappawho, on 10/12/2007, -3/+5That a fine point you bring up. The PS2 was notoriously difficult to develop for. It obviously wasn't a big issue since there have been something like five thousand games released for it. There hasn't been much said about dev cost for the PS3 compared to the PS2, but reports so far have been that the PS3 is EASIER to dev for than the PS2 was.
A good example of this is the FF XIII team switching from the PS2 to the PS3 after having the opportunity to make the FF VII tech demo on the PS3 hardware. This is coming from a developer with lots and lots of PS2 experience.
Also, this information(if you can call it that) is pretty useless at this point. Lets get a generation or two of games out then compare dev costs. - dharm, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2i somewhat agree with what you are saying...
i recently read a interview with EA developers about NFS:carbon.
what they said about the Wii was that the game is basicaly complete, except they dont know how to control the game with Wii-controller... but they would surely eventually think of something - webpoet73, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Not only that, but the developer doesn't get the whole 50 or 60 dollars. Nintendo, Sony, and Microsoft get a liscense fee. The retailer gets a piece of it. The distributer gets a piece of it. The publisher (if is not the same as the developer) gets a piece of it. By the time the money gets to the developer, it's probably 1/2 to 3/4 of the actual sale price of the game.
JeuxFrance, which was referenced in the article, is not always the best and most reliable source, anyway. - Alex.w, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2If that is his goal, well he's doing well so far..
- theblackgecko, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Except for the fact that a game developed for the 360/PS3 can run on three platforms 360/PS3/PC. The lack of horsepower for Nintendo's console means that developers will have to do major downscaling or else redevelop. Being able to develop for multiple platforms cuts down costs.
There's a reason Rockstar never bothered trying to develop Grand Theft Auto on the Gamecube. - martin993, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Bloody hell those games are expensive to make. I'd never really bothered to consider it before but they're the same as some bigshot Hollywood movies. Is that the norm or is that ridiculously high? How much did it cost to make one gamecube game?
Suddenly £40 a game doesn't seem too bad. (But I still want it cheaper because I'm a Scrooge.) - user123, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1It is rediculous to think it costs more to make a game on a particular system if we are talking solely about graphics. When a graphic artist creates a character, they dont think "I'm making this for the Xbox 360 so I have to design it better then the Wii."
Graphics are all done on PC, they are then DEGRADED to match the console / speed / etc. That has to do with the FINAL platform that the game will be running on. Obviously, they DO NOT make brand new custom gfx for xxx system if renders have been made previously. (unless of course they actually are adding something new.) - stappawho, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Geez, I finally RTFA and it's one dev talking about one game. While I don't doubt that the Wii will be the cheapest to dev for, I don't see how we can use this info for ALL games and devs.
- nklnch, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1"A game such as Red Steel could cost them between $24 - $48 million on PS3 or 360"
Wii games will probably be cheaper to produce on average because they will be different types of games. Simpler, shorter games are cheaper to make than large complicated games. It's not that the Wii has some special chip inside that makes it cheap to develop for or that the 360/PS3 requires bigger production budgets because of horribly complex dev tools.
Making the same Red Steel game for 360/PS3 probably would cost about the same as on the Wii. However, making Gears of War or Resistance or GTA4 on 360/PS3 will probably cost a lot more than Wii Sports or a Brain Age puzzle game or Geometry Wars or Katamari Damacy.
Also, $12.75 million isn't cheap at all. MSNBC said most Xbox PS2 game budgets were in the $5-$7 million range. - stappawho, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I would think the new tech would be harder to dev for and therefore more expensive. I bet that gap will close as familiarity with the hardware increases.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -6/+7I agree. This article is posting developers opinion agings a DIFFERENT developers game. THQ definitely does not speak for the industry, much less Ubisoft. Perhaps if the person who made that quote also gave them some figures on a Wii game in development to draw conclusions from, this would be more accurate.
Sorry, but bad journalism = flagged as inaccurate. - TimDigg, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1"shouldnt the wii games be more than $10 cheaper than the other consoles..."
naw they're just selling it for what the market will bear... - beervolcano, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2I thought that the only announcement about game prices came from EA. All they said was that their games would cast no more than $49.99. That's just EA, though. I'll wait to see how much the other devs are going to charge for their games as well before I pass judgement.
- Modulo, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2That's what I want! I want a game that someone decided to greenlight because it would be cheap & easy! YAY! CHEAP AND EASY! PLEASE SPOONFEED ME MORE CRAP, GAMES INDUSTRY!!!! /sarcasm
- dharm, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1you make a good point... even though you made it by a sarcastic remark.
if dev costs for wii games are a quarter to half the cost of ps3/xbox... shouldnt the wii games be more than $10 cheaper than the other consoles... - tizz66, on 10/12/2007, -2/+213 hours is longer than most current action games, isn't it? I thought the average was around 12.
- DyobolikaL, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0I wouldn't mind ol school 8-bit game to play.
- tidonnelly, on 10/12/2007, -3/+2Everyone talks about how long and hard it will be to develop for the PS3 but no one mentions that Wii developers will have to develop for a controller that no one has ever worked with before. I mean, it will be interesting to see. While it may take 2-3 generations of games before dev get a hold on the PS3 and how to dev for it, it could take the same amount of time before dev's get a hold on the wii-mote. Altough I guess in the Wii's case, you could still release the game on time but the controls just aren't as innovative as they could be at the beginning. Either way, these are completely new systems and despite its resemblance to the GC, I think there will be obstacles for everyone when developing a first generation game for a brand new system.
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