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88 Comments
- theblooms, on 10/12/2007, -0/+16"I owned a TG16 and I couldn't find any games for it that were any good at all"
Sorry, but R-Type kicked ASS! - Wisgary, on 10/12/2007, -1/+16I remember when I used to bullseye womp rats in my TG-16 back home. They weren't much bigger than 8 bits.
- jayt684, on 10/12/2007, -0/+14How can you guys forget about Bonk so easily?
- Revuefu, on 10/12/2007, -0/+13furude & therodersabides:
Unfortunately, this all feeds back to the marketing problem. NEC came to America and really wasn't ready for what was needed to compete in the market. On the one hand, as the article mentioned, they "super-sized" the console (to the extent that they even used bigger controller ports than the PCEngine) and re-did all the box art and manuals in what they perceived to be "American-style". (To be fair though, many NES and Genesis games have had similar problems with box-art)
OTOH, although NEC made the TG-16 physically bigger than the PCE, they neglected basic upgrades such as including A/V output. You had to buy an additional "booster" pack if you wanted hook the system into your stereo. Remember that in JPN, the PCE was released to compete primarily with the Famicom. By the time NEC came to America, Sega was about to (or just had) released the Genesis/MD into the North American market. Additionally, NEC concentrated its marketing and Ad dollars in major cities. Very little was done to move units into suburban, much less rural areas. In Japan, that strategy made sense, but America's population is much more spread out.
To make matters worse, they were unable to bring over many games, simply because the publishers didn't want to get on Nintendo's bad side, and many of the best games being made for the PCE were on its CD-ROM add-on. (The PCE had the First CD-Rom games, but the play was pricey to say the least.) Turbo-Chips had some problems with space, and so many of the early games brought over were less than impressive, compared to their rivals on the Genesis.
Anyway, I think the article made a reasonable point. NEC goofed by making unsupported assumptions about the US market and subsequently had their heads handed to them by Sega and Nintendo. Sad really, because the PCE battled successfully with Nintendo for 1st place in the Japanese market well into the 16-bit era. - therodersabides, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7I knew quite a bit about the "Turbo Graphic 16" in the early 90's from magazines like Game Pro, but I never saw any in stores. The first and last time I ever saw one, was on clearance at a Toys R Us after they stoped producing them.
- caddyalan, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6I definitely get the sense that Nintendo dominated for many years because of which company was able to produce what games on what system.
The few TG16 ads that I recall emphasized the games' "coolness" (as opposed to being just like Mario). That's pretty much what Sega did for years... but I think Sega had more success because it was able to back up its "coolness" claims with solid games such as Sonic 1 and 2.
I don't recall that CD-based add-ons were ever successful in the long run. (I admit that I liked Lunar on Sega CD, but I didn't care much for the system itself, especially since it wasn't cheap.) - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7YS book I and II
loom
splatterhouse
zonk
exile
neutopia I and II
dungeon explorer.... - idtguy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6All I know is that Bonk and Bonk's Revenge KICKED ASS
- goodbeershow, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4TurboGrafx may be the first web 2.0 name
- lunarworks, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5The article said that changing the name from "PC Engine" was a mistake.
I disagree.
While TurboGrafx-16 was a horrible name, "PC Engine" was bland and didn't really say much about the system. Plus, it would have been confusing, as people would wonder "If this is a PC 'engine', does that mean it's compatible with a PC"?
As for the covers... the US covers were ugly as hell. But the US public wasn't ready for anime yet, either. I would have LIKED the anime style covers, but they may have not sat well with consumers here.
The US redesign of the console, while probably not having any serious effect on sales either way, was horrible. It should have stayed unchanged, but redesigning consoles for the west, for whatever misguided reason, was just the way they did things back then. (The MegaDrive/Genesis being the only early exception.) - djSyndrome, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4It was extensively marketed in large cities such as NY and Los Angeles, but it was just about impossible to find anywhere else. It took a month of looking in Sacramento - not exactly a small town - to procure one.
- HappyScrappy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3I have a TG-16. And the add-on pack to get composite out and stereo audio.
Honestly, I think the biggest factor was the lack of games people wanted to play.
The Genesis was getting arcade conversions. Heck, it shipped with Altered Beast. It got Mortal Kombat, etc. TG-16 had R-Type, and that's it.
There were good titles for it (Bomberman launched on it), but they weren't the kind that Americans were naturally interested in.
Also, it only had a single controller port, in order to play against even one other player, you not only had to buy another controller, but you had to buy a 5:1 multitap. This wasn't such a big deal in Japan, but in the US, two player games were the norm at the time (again, see Altered Beast, Mortal Kombat).
I bought a TG-16 and my roommate (in college) bought a Genesis. In just over a year, the TG-16 had already petered out in the US and I had to fork over more dough to get a SNES. - robbiedo, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3I still have my Turbo Grafx Express, which I paid 300 dollars for back in 1989. Basically, it had crappy games, for the most part. Blazing Lazers was probably the best game
- VWDash, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2I am the only person I know that owned a TG-16 and I loved it. I got mine while I was still in Puerto Rico so I cant imagine they were too hard to find here in the US. The first thing i did when I got my Wii was go download Bonks Adventure for ol' times sake. The only thing missing now is Keith Courage in Alpha Zone (stupid title I know).
- weareglass, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2I do think there's something to the fact that not as many people knew about the TG-16. I think maybe the biggest problem was lack of a killer app-type game. Bonk was great but I don't know if it was ever great enough to fill the shoes of a SMB or Sonic. I remember an issue of Electronic Gaming Monthly with the casts of the major Genesis and Turbografx titles arrayed against one another, and I think that was telling. The Turbografx was just too out there and Japanese for the kids of that time. Anime and Japanese style art hadn't established itself as it has today.
I had one and loved and all of my friends loved to come over and play it but none of them ever got one. I think there are some good reasons as to its lack of success and marketing may have played a role but this article is way oversimplifying the matter. Still, an interesting read. It looks like the Wikipedia article has a more holistic explanation having something to do with major third party publishers having exclusive contracts with Nintendo in the US. I'm sure that's closer to the mark.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turbografx - blathack, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3@furude
It WAS extensively marketed - the TG-16 wasn't exactly a secret: the games were available at all major retailers, it was featured in all the gaming mags, etc. The main problem was horrible presentation/execution IMO. - thehans, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Are they still worth $300 today? If that's the case I need to go digging through my parents garage. I think it's in the same box with my 3DO.
- madk, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Box art? Please explain to me why the 2600, NES, SNES, Genesis and even Master System all were successful with their awful box art. You have to remember the 80-90's media art scene in America was like.
- AwRy108, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Hmm, since we're talking about the 80's, I think I have the answer: they weren't Nintendo.
- kflasch, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Blazing Lasers was great!
- christoscamaro, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2I remember reading reviews of all of the Japanese RPGs that were coming out for it in Japan, so I bought one.
I don't recall ever seeing a single real RPG come over to the US, meanwhile there were new ones released all the time for the pc engine. - rysolag, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2three words: slaughter ***** house.
- mrRB, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1[obligatory PS3 comparison]
/sarcasm - Shenaniganz08, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I don't know about you guys but Castle Dracula X: Rondo of Blood was a pretty sick game for its time ( I recently played it on an emulator) :P
- daridave, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Too subjective.
Logical reasons but they could be applied to almost any system, even the succesful ones.
It wasn't perfect, we know. But some of the reasons feel like fillers, just so a one-paragraph reason of "poor marketing" could be turned into an article.
No digg. - bpapa, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Ummm... not to be a dick but this "article" is about as insightful as the average digg comment. GET ME MY SHOVEL, THIS IS LAME!
- sinistron, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Its amazing how misinformed alot of these posters are- for example-
"TG-16 had R-Type, and that's it.
And Galaga '90. But, yeah, not a whole lot else. The TG16 had a lot of great games, but the Genesis had a lot of recognizable arcade games.
TG16: Blazing Lasers, Devil's Crush, Bomberman, Ninja Spirit
Genesis: Altered Beast, Forgotten Worlds, Truxton, Strider
You're a kid who just got back from the arcade, which lineup do *you* want?'
All four of those Genesis games are on turbografx/pc-engine.
altered beast is on pc-engine hucard, forgotten worlds is on turbo-grafx CD, truxton is on pc-engine hucard (called "Tatsujin") and Strider is available on Pc-Engine Arcade Card CD.
I don't expect many here to know all that- but to assume is another thing.
I had a turbografx when it first came out and had about 40+ games- MOST of which rocked (with exception to 90% of the sports titles). I recently got my turbo up and running again, bought a japanese hucard converter and a cd player and now have 107 games. I wouldn't trade it for any other system. Among my collection are familiar titles such as Ninja Gaiden, Shinobi, Life Force (aka Salamander), Gradius I & II, Strider (although the Genesis was better graphically- the TG version has cutscenes, real Cd music and an exclusive bonus level), Populous and Operation Wolf. It is a retro-dream machine.
Back in the day- if you had a turbo-grafx- you were able to order a hucard converter to play the japanese games through most videogame magazines.
Also- all these people who thought that no good games were released in America obviously never played Bloody Wolf, Devil's Crush, Bomberman '93, Bubble Bobble III, Chew-Man-Fu, Cratermaze, Final Lap Twin, Cadash, Dungeon Explorer, Neutopia I & II, Blazing Lazers, Super Star Soldier, Soldier Blade, Galaga 90, Aero Blasters, R-Type, Dead Moon, Bonk I & II, Legendary Axe I & II, Veigues Tactical Gladiator, Dragon's Curse, Jackie Chan, New Adventure Island, Ninja Spirit, Splatterhouse, Military Madness and a ***** of CD titles. - zoomtechtv, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Best Turbo Graphic emulator
http://www.magicengine.com/
http://www.emulator-zone.com/doc.php/pcengine/ - Asianwaste, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1It was also the first system to use a CD attachment. Too playing games like Ys III on CD for crappy voice acting is not worth 7 seconds of loading whenever you go into a new zone. (Ys III had a lot of nonscrolling zones, so you'd be waiting for loads more than you'd play the game)
- ggko, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1> TG-16 had R-Type, and that's it.
And Galaga '90. But, yeah, not a whole lot else. The TG16 had a lot of great games, but the Genesis had a lot of recognizable arcade games.
TG16: Blazing Lasers, Devil's Crush, Bomberman, Ninja Spirit
Genesis: Altered Beast, Forgotten Worlds, Truxton, Strider
You're a kid who just got back from the arcade, which lineup do *you* want? - somewhatchewy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1@tony134340
The game that you're referring to that came with the system was "Keith Courage in the Alpha Zones". I just found the comic book that came with the game a few days ago...ah the memories. - theshalit, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2didn't the Slackerz comic already establish why the T-16 sucked so awesomely?
http://www.theslackerz.com/index.php?Page=24 - sinistron, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Cosmic Fantasy II was pretty fun- I just finished that game last week. There was also Dragon Slayer, Might and Magic III, and Theron's Quest on CD and Order of the Griffon and Double Dungeons on HuCard in America. I know most people consider turn-based attack real RPGs- but I definitely consider Y's a real RPG as well as the Exile series (and Cadash too for that matter)- they have more common hack and slash attacks- but you gain experience points. I saw a poster above knocking Y's- I just can't fathom it.
It is true that a good portion of PCE games are shooters- which for someone like me is a blessing. I LOVE outdated genres like shooters and 2-D platformers. Near the end of the PCE's run it turned towards fighters- with a bunch of the Neo Geo fighting titles turning up on PC-engine arcade card CDs- I want to get them myself but I'm still trying to figure out how to adapt the japanese 6-button pads for my american system. They made japanese to american controller adapters but I can't find them anywhere. Other game genres that were popular for PC-Engine are the aforementioned RPGs and also hentai (porn), mahjong, dating and life simulations, interactive comics, mecha (robot fighters), and action-puzzles (Bomberman, Doraeman, Batman, etc.).
Yeah- I'm sure Magical Chase is a great game- just wish I could afford it! I know it goes for like $250. It definitely falls into that "maybe some year when I have the cash" category- along with my other top Pc-engine desires- Dungeon Explorer II ($120), Sapphire ($300??), Dynastic Hero ($350), Beyond Shadowgate ($200), Castlevania Dracula X, Kaze Kiri, and Faussete Amour (all around $100), etc., etc., etc. I do have Bonk III- but its the japanese version- which is rather funny. In the american version- when Bonk eats a piece of ham he looks stoned and burnt. In the japanese- he turns effeminate and blows kisses. I guess Americans were deemed too homophobic. I find it funny. - BabyWookie, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Yeah, but it was never even released in the US, just like a lot of very good PC-Engine games.
- ggko, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1US release dates according to Wikipedia:
Genesis: August 14 1989
TG-16: August 29, 1989
SNES: August 13, 1991
The Turbo was second out of the gate, right on the tail of the Genesis, and nearly a full year before the SNES. If anything, it entered a market filled with aging NES units, (the Sega Master System wasn't too popular in the US.) - masterthiefster, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1The TurboGrafx's problem was that it was an 8-bit system trying to make it in a 16-bit market. It simply didn't work. It had some impressive games, sure, but on the whole you could tell its technical limitations held it back.
- somewhatchewy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I was going to bury, but I dugg for the mention of the TG-16. I just got mine out of its box, hooked on the "Turbo Booster" (made the output go from coax to rca) and fired it up. Oh R-Type, how I missed you.
- ggko, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Looking at eBay right now as a barometer, not so much. Only if it's brand new or loaded with accessories (re: tv tuner,) can you expect to get over $100. Otherwise you'll only get lunch money for a couple of days ... and a week later you'll probably be itching to play and wishing you kept it.
Also cross your fingers that the audio hasn't died. I bought a PC Engine GT (the Japanese version) a few years ago and the unit has to "warm up" before the sound becomes audible. It's apparently a common problem, and nobody has a fix.
Dammit, I want to play with mine now ... where are my HU-Cards. - xtreme777, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I read about the TurboGrafx 16 in gaming magazines, but with the monopoly that Nintendo had on Wal-mart, you just could not find it in a small town. When the closest Wal-mart is in another county, and it's the only store that carries electronics, you are very limited as a kid as to what you are exposed to. Wal-mart = Nintendo exclusively, at least in the past.
- gnawph2, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Buried for "plethora" abuse. Why does everybody have a hard on for "plethora" these days? It makes you sound dumb.
My entire family used to rock out playing bomberman for hours. I sold mine years ago for a healthy profit. What a great system. - ggko, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Surprisingly, if you still have it, you can probably get most of that back on eBay right now! I sold one the other month with a few dirt-common games for about $45.
- higgs, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Bomberman at 2AM in the conference room with four co-workers on multi tap and 3 more waiting in the wings for the first person to get hit by a fast right angle bombing. An amazing game. Nearly everything else is just a screen saver in comparison to this game.
We went through a plethora of controllers and multi taps playing this. - vectorlyme, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I had tremendous faith in Turbografx-16 when it first came out. I lived and a smallish town and felt like the king of the world at the time when I had it and the $400 cd-rom attachment. So funny. But, I will truly always back it up... I have sold all my other gaming systems over the years, but I can't and will never sell my TG16. I think its great that some of the games have been somewhat resurrected on the Wii... though I haven't played some of the games on there yet.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I'm also the only I know who had one. I lived in france, and it was the japanese PC-Engine GT, the TGE in america.
It was great; fun, powerfull, exotic..
The HU-Card game-carts where insanely futuristic for the time.
The portable one used that same game cards as the tv-system..
Still now, it's a quite particular machine.
Because of it's success in japan, it became a mature system, with a unique spirit surrounding it.
oh, and I totaly agree the US cover art is insanely lame... Lousy first level "adaptive" marketing.. - rysolag, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1totally bro.
- BabyWookie, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Working Designs released Cosmic Fantasy 2.
- Lynxpro, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1
No no and no to all of the reasons posted in the threads as to why the TurboGrafx 16 failed in America while its original Japanese counterpart (the PC Engine) was such a success. The fault lies with one word...one company...Nintendo.
In Japan, there weren't restrictive licenses for the third party game companies. So just about every Japanese game company published games for the PC Engine. However, once NEC decided to bring the machine here to the States, they soon learned that they couldn't get those same publishers to release the same titles here in America because within the American market, the game publishers who had chosen to become third-party developers for the Nintendo NES were restricted from porting their titles to other consoles (such as the Sega Master System or the Atari 7800). This is the very reason why Atari Corp. ended up suing Nintendo on antitrust issues.
Had Nintendo not monopolized the American game industry with its restrictive business practices, the TurboGrafx would have been a success. Newsflash to the legion of Nintendo/Wii fanbois on Digg....your favorite game company has historically behaved just as badly in the American gaming industry as has Microsoft behaved in the operating system and office software suite markets. - milkham, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I think maybe the best TG-16 game was Devil's Crush (crash?) basically a demonic pinball game... awesome.
- blastin311, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Hell Yeah!!! BONK!!!
- BabyWookie, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1There were good games, but not any that had a true mass appeal and ability to sell systems. There were a lot of puzzlers and quirky Japanese titles, as well as space shooters. Unfortunately, the market became over-saturated with space shooters in the late 1980's and most people were sick of them by the early nineties, which did not bode well for the TG16. There were also a lot of arcade ports, which were short and had limited replay value (Splatterhouse). What the system really needed was more original action platformers, RPGs, beat-em-ups and fighting games. That was the kind of stuff that sold me on the Genesis. It's a shame that some of the best CD games from Japan were never ported. The PC-Engine Japanese library was pretty kick-ass.
BTW, I'd add Magical Chase to the list of TG16 HuCards that are worth checking out. It was one of the latter releases and I liked it a lot. -
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