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- Natetendo83, on 10/10/2007, -5/+137"The cooling fan was half of desktop PCs — apparently to reduce noise."
That made me laugh - indydrew, on 10/10/2007, -24/+152Fanboys can cry all you want, it's still the truth.
- StarmanDXE, on 10/10/2007, -5/+89I am still convinced that when Microsoft OKed this piece of hardware, they failed to realize that, unlike software, they can't just release "Service Packs" in order to fix the bugs...
- rockandrollmark, on 10/10/2007, -3/+86Yeah really. I'm not a thermal design expert or anything, but aren't bigger fans quieter?
- ellardoUK, on 10/10/2007, -12/+76Agree! And its noisy too!
- inactive, on 10/10/2007, -21/+76Microsoft designed something poorly? Say it isn't so.... /sarcasm
- aldenhg, on 10/10/2007, -2/+55I can't believe how small the heatsink for the graphics chip is. I've got a 7600GS with passive cooling and the heatsink on it makes up about 2/3 the mass of the card. Of course, it stays below 50c under load and doesn't die.
- totorototoro, on 10/10/2007, -5/+53From the original article this linked to:
Finally, we opened the chassis of the Xbox 360 repaired in May 2007 and compared it with the other Xbox 360 we purchased in late 2005.
"Huh? The heat sinks and fans are completely identical, aren't they?"
So...what was the repair? - totorototoro, on 10/10/2007, -1/+38the "are mistakes" part, for one :p
- iluvatar, on 10/10/2007, -23/+54I suppose it's always going to get turned into a fanboy issue so here's fuel for the fire:
All the people complaining about "being on their 3rd 360" at least only had to pay for it the one time thanks to Microsoft's warranty. I'm on my 3rd ps2 and I've had to buy it each time because apparently a faulty optical drive somehow isn't Sony's fault. That kind of customer service is much worse than simply selling a shoddy product.
At this point I don't care if the ps3 has less than a 1% fail rate. I've been burned by Sony on so many of their different products it would take an act of god to get me to give them any more money. So for all of the people still pulling for a ps3 "victory" you need to keep in mind there's a really, really good reason why so many people are enjoying see Sony fail. And you don't have any room to speak when you're talking about product quality. - acurism, on 10/10/2007, -8/+36Wow, only a few diggs. Imagine that?
This is good to know but I am surprised someone didn't do this research a long time ago. Makes you wonder if MS even did the research! - wdunay3, on 10/10/2007, -13/+41Why is there no class action law suit against Microsoft on this?
- rderveloy, on 10/10/2007, -3/+29Yes and no. The noise comes from how fast the fans spin. If you ran both a small fan and a larger fan at the same RPM with the same type of bearing, they would make about the same amount of noise. However, since larger fans can move more air at slow speeds, they seem quieter since you can afford to run them slower than the smaller fans.
- AzraelKans, on 10/10/2007, -2/+26Want to know WHY the xbox 360 has that design flaw? Check out the xbox 360 presentation video, you know the one where they explain the shape of the xbox 360 is because is "exhaling" or something. (does someone has a youtube link?)
Almost 3/4 in the video listen very carefully, they clearly say the xbox 360 is LIQUID COOLED, the original design was made to be cooled by a LIQUID substance running trough, beta tests were done with the LIQUID cooler, why in the world did they removed that at the last minute? Im betting it has to do with keeping the same price with lesser costs.
They probably knew the system would fail if overheated (turning itself off) , what they probably didnt knew is that the overheating could cause the board to warp and that after several years it didnt need overheating, regular usage could do the trick. - mageofdeath, on 10/10/2007, -40/+63we know its a problem, but regardless of the poor hardware, the 360 still has the best games...
- deici66, on 10/10/2007, -1/+23bigger fans are quieter. Look at the ps3 'fan'. It some custom 175mm fan and the thing is almost silent
- apothekari, on 10/10/2007, -5/+25I build pc 's for a living.
The Motherboard plastic X bracket thingy is also very poorly designed.
Anyone who's ever built a PC knows that the m board has GOT to be secured in multiple multiple places because any silicon will warp a little if enough heat is present over time thus pulling away system components from mboard!
Let's not even discuss disk scratching from substandard drives. - riddlebox, on 10/10/2007, -7/+26This is absolutely true. I for one am on my third xbox. Bought one in December 2006. It broke in may right before the halo 3 beta. Returned within 1 days left of beta. So upset I didn't even try to play, I will just wait for the game. 2 weeks late the "replacement' console they sent also decided to crap out. This was within the first few days of July. I just received my console back on the 3rd of this month. They said it would take longer because they are diagnosing the problem. I was fine with that. Repair MY console, and send MINE back. That way to have a better log of whats been fixed and what hasn't. Well needless to say, they shipped me another ***** console. I will not buy a PS3 because I do not want o support Sony and their Blu Ray media. (not a fan of the controller either, or half of their games, although I do own a PS2 before GTA was released for XBOX). They are not repairing your console. They are taking consoles off of the shelf and shipping them back. And I have to download the halo 2 maps every time i get it back. They also ship you a 1 month free XBOX live Gold card for your "problems". Since it took them a full month to send me a "replacement console" ....I have regular face plates now for my xbox. There needs to be a Class Action lawsuit.
- dadioflex, on 10/10/2007, -2/+21The 3 year warranty is good but what Microsoft really ought to do is send everyone who's ever bought a 360 a replacement. Then they can claim 20 million units shipped...
- GawtMilk, on 10/10/2007, -6/+24Video gamers have bad reputations because they like to discuss inanimate objects with a passion. The stereotype is furthered when people use words like "funnest".
- StarmanDXE, on 10/10/2007, -3/+20Good point. I still have yet to reach the real world of engineering, but I hear it is largely what you have described:
Sales: "Imagine double the efficiency at half the price!"
Management: "Sounds great! Get it done or you're fired."
Engineer(s): "WHAT!? (Stupid business students...)" - hearsaybear, on 10/10/2007, -3/+20Yes it does.
- TheLD, on 10/10/2007, -1/+17To be honest, the xbox can't get much noisier, the DVD drive makes so much noise that you can't even hear the fans
- YouRookies, on 10/10/2007, -6/+21And randomly scratches disks.
- Matteos, on 10/10/2007, -14/+29I'm sure those great games will make great coasters when your 360 dies...
- Ajajadude, on 10/10/2007, -3/+18You know nothing of electronics.
- Cyber_Akuma, on 10/10/2007, -5/+20You realize that Sigma is basically a port of the Xbox Ninja Gaiden game right?
- YouRookies, on 10/10/2007, -14/+29Fanboys will say "but it has the games!" Duh, it's been out for almost 2 years now. By the same time next year, the PS3 and Wii will have their games out too.
- kenvsryu, on 10/10/2007, -2/+16a little red ring will.
- SteveMax, on 10/10/2007, -1/+15Not every house has air conditioning. And 35° Celsius may be high, but it's not extreme.
Disclaimer: I live in Brazil, where you get ~20° almost every winter day. - Gerz1219, on 10/10/2007, -6/+18This whole mess could've been avoided if so many fanboys didn't base their purchasing decisions on design aesthetics. The obsession is ridiculous. It's not enough to get a high-end gaming rig for $400, it has to look all sleek and shiny as well. It seems that every flaw in the 360's design traces back to a need to keep the case small and slim. I shouldn't need to point out that a console's design has absolutely nothing to do with gameplay or horsepower. There's a reason powerful desktop computers are big and clunky.
- iluvatar, on 10/10/2007, -5/+16They were in a rush to meet the Christmas 2005 deadline. Full-range product testing took a back seat to that. I don't want to blame the hardware designers entirely on this one because I get the feeling the decision was largely management.
- AzraelKans, on 10/10/2007, -1/+11Wow, never mind the video, teamxbox there's a blast from the past:
http://features.teamxbox.com/xbox/1145/The-Xbox-360-Dissected/p7/
"One of the surprises we found when checking the Xbox 360 innards was its cooling solution. To keep things quiet and cool, Microsoft has designed a liquid cooling system that dynamically adjusts the flow of the liquid and the speed of the fans depending on the temperature and power consumption." - Renton, on 10/10/2007, -1/+11"The expert pointed out, "The heat sink on the graphics LSI is so small, I wonder if it can really cool down the board." The reason for this? Apparently, Microsoft had to downsized graphics LSI heat sink so that the DVD drive could be placed above it."
They could have at least used copper. It looks like it's made out of aluminium in the pic. - PopeOfDope, on 10/10/2007, -7/+17Ninja Gaiden Sigma is a remake. Xbox360 owners can just play the original. Sure it might not be as good graphically, but claiming the xbox360 doesn't have games like it is stupid.
Resistance isn't exactly a ground breaking FPS either but its still a great game. I personally prefer Gears of War for online play and I'm sure many would agree.
Oblivion is a great game too, but you are missing all the fun on both consoles. All the mods make the PC version a lot more enjoyable by tweaking the leveling system and other game mechanics. - GreyICE, on 10/10/2007, -1/+10The XBox360 uses an open loop cooling system. It takes in air from the environment, runs it over heat sinks, and then blows it back out rear vents. That's pretty much the definition of an open-loop cooling system (or at least an obvious example).
Contrast that with the sick cooling system in the PS3, and you should see the difference. There's a reason the PS3's cooling system doesn't fail the way the 360s does, even though it outputs more heat. - Topher06, on 10/10/2007, -3/+12Wrap yours in a towel, I hear that fixes the problem.....
- frygar, on 10/10/2007, -10/+19If you think MS is spending a billion plus just to extend your warranty because they're all just really swell folks, you're deluding yourself. Three words for ya: Public Relations Suicide. Actually, here's four more, Federal Class Action Lawsuit.
Everyone knows they made ***** hardware this gen, but it's common knowledge that the games are pretty solid, so I'll give them that. Regardless, I've moved on to my PS3 and haven't looked back since. - FoxOrian, on 10/10/2007, -3/+12I'm a 360 owner, and major 360 fan. Mine died by the Red Ring of Light the other week, and believe me, I recognize that it's ridiculous that every 360 has this potential for failure. I'm 360-less for now until my repair comes back in a week or two, and while I'm disappointed that it did happen to me, I'm also getting by just without it for this stretch of time. I love the thing, but it isn't the end of the world.
- romainechester, on 10/10/2007, -1/+10Uh.. I think that's what he was trying to say.
- inactive, on 10/10/2007, -4/+13Because they have rectified the situation by taking a $1.1 Billion one time write off against the 360 by extending the warranty on the RRoD to 3 years from date of purchase. A reasonable judge and jury would find this sufficient. What, do you think they owe you $20 each now, too?
- aegis9975, on 10/10/2007, -2/+10Thats a pretty good article. Exactly explains cooling issues of the 360 from a technical perspective. The original article goes down to every detail, an amazing insight into exposing the flaws of the design.
- Topher06, on 10/10/2007, -4/+12The part that has Microsoft installing the same shoddy parts that fail even after then 8th return. I don't care about a longer warranty, fix it right the FIRST time, or rather, make it right the first time. What part of lousy POS do you not understand?
- milkmage, on 10/10/2007, -1/+9first of all, 'are' does not equal 'our'.. and what the ***** do you think 3 years is going to do to correct HARDWARE problems? is the heat sink going to experience a growth spurt in 3 years ... maybe grow a few new fan or two, hell, in 3 years, it might just run cooler.. all the extended 3 year warranty says to me is that YOU ARE ***** in three years.
recall and replacement, or an external cooling solution that does NOT void your warranty are the only ways to resolve this. - inactive, on 10/10/2007, -2/+10People say they buy it for the game library. But whats the use when you can hardly play the games?
- Psykus2, on 10/10/2007, -2/+10Direct link:
http://techon.nikkeibp.co.jp/english/NEWS_EN/20070801/137224/ - mace2, on 10/10/2007, -1/+8Yes, the point is Microsoft had a ***** design, not allowing it to stay cool enough.
- reed311, on 10/10/2007, -1/+8This has nothing to do with Sony. You must either be retarded or the biggest video game nerd on the internets.
- smackhero, on 10/10/2007, -1/+7what's wrong with analyzing & reporting about a flawed popular product. this is useful information to a lot of people.
- alvinrod, on 10/10/2007, -1/+7Dude, just wait until the new versions come out that don't fail because of smaller chip design and better manufacturing. Put your Xbox 360 in an enclosed area, put a game in that really pushes it to the limit and let that sucker go for an eight hour marathon. The thing is pretty much going to go ***** up at some point. When it's in for repairs, just complain about getting one of the newer models so it doesn't happen again.
Problem solved. -
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