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- chatwithaninja, on 10/12/2007, -4/+37***** article. There are thousands of indie games out there... they are mostly flash and java games, and they come in RPG, FPS, RTS, and MMORPG flavors. Download or play them at a site near you!
- Lumiras, on 10/12/2007, -7/+25you mean the company that used the Microsoft-funded Halo engine and was comprised partially of ex-Bungie employees? Indie, I think not.
- merreborn, on 10/12/2007, -0/+14I guess the article's talking about *console* games, and they're right, for the most part. How many indie Xbox 360 games can you name?
- heysuburbia, on 10/12/2007, -0/+13Look at Alien Hominid. First a flash game, now it's available on every major console. Made by the kid who runs New Grounds out of Philly.
http://www.alienhominid.com/ - quentinp, on 10/12/2007, -0/+12No indy games? What is this guy smoking. How about:
Mount & Blade
Galactic Civilizations II (bigger this time around, but really not any sort of big publishers)
Escape Velocity Nova
Just off the top of my head. - The_Wallbanger, on 10/12/2007, -0/+11The indie companies may find it harder to compete with the industry's multi-million dollar budgets, but smaller games should find their way to our homes with online marketplaces like Xbox LIVE and Nintendo's Virtual Console. Hopefully success there could create more attractive investment opportunities for newer ideas from the Indies.
- apflwr, on 10/12/2007, -0/+10"you mean the company that used the Microsoft-funded Halo engine and was comprised partially of ex-Bungie employees? Indie, I think not."
The fact that they licensed the engine means nothing (in fact, licensing engines is a great strategy for smaller companies who don't have the resources to start from scratch.) The fact that they're ex-Bungie guys actually makes the case that the company can be called "indie"-- these are people who didn't want to work for the established companies and set out to do it themselves.
I know there are varying definitions of "indie", but it doesn't have to mean a product made by unknowns on zero budget. The article compares the games industry to film-- and indie films often still have million dollar budgets (which isn't actually all that much) and "big name" talent (actors, writers and directors.) - geminitojanus, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8"A program like Maya costs at least $9,000."
Blender. Open Source. Free.
"Photoshop will set you back another $650."
Granted there is no perfect contender for Photoshop, but Gimp does most everything a game developer would need it to do. Open Source, Free. For a not-so-free, but still cheap, alternative, try Pixel (sometimes called Pixel 32, developed by the same person developing SkyOS; it's the closest thing to a Photoshop clone I can find and I greatly enjoy it).
"a C++ compiler will cost you $600"
And a /better/ C++ compiler is free. Hell, there are /3/ of them for Free; Microsoft's own VisualStudio (Visual C++) has a free edition, GNU's C/C++ is still regarded as one of the best in the industry (it does have its quirks, but it's probably the most widely used compiler, so its quirks are well known and easy to work around), and Borland's compiler's still available for free. Granted, you will not always get an IDE, but there are plenty of those, and a lot of people regard them to be more of a crutch than an aid. (Personally, I work on OS X in XCode, but YMMV).
The real reason there are not a lot of indie games? Competition. Game creation is cut-throat; either you work alone, or you work in a half-assed team, scrounged together from an internet forum. Whenever you have people that you have physical access to (either over the telephone or in the same room), dedicated to creating the game, and good at what they're doing, you can create a game. There just needs to be an alivening in the community, and the whole sense of making that one break out game that will make you a millionairre needs to be removed from the equation.
I'd recommend starting over at GameDev.net (where I moonlight as a code instructor/physics teacher). - MikeSD34, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7That's not the consumers, or the developers fault though.
That's the fault of the industry, and the lack of knowledge of the consumers that it's happening.
Don't forget about mods for other games like HL and HL2.
Then there are also the licensing fees for the best gaming engines like Unreal, that's very discouraging to startups and indie developers. - WhiskerTheMad, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7@betterth:
So games that aren't developed *completely* from scratch don't count? How about games where they license the engine? Subcontact the modeling? Where do you draw your line for a "pure" game that counts?
"they're not developing *****"
Really? Have you ever seen a little mod called counterstrike? Day of defeat? I would hazard a guess that they "developed some *****" - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7How about Rag Doll Kung Fu? That game raked in quite a bit from Steam sales.
- DigiDave, on 10/12/2007, -4/+11But I think the point is that the average game consumer can't find them. Big name game companies are shoved down their throat.
- Ignignokt01, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6Well, if mods are considered indie, then they definitely don't suck. I find myself playing more mods of games than the originals, especially with half life. But even with new games like BF2, I can't wait till some of the mods come out, while i don't even care about the original game anymore....
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -5/+11"you mean the company that used the Microsoft-funded Halo engine and was comprised partially of ex-Bungie employees? Indie, I think not."
So what, lots of companies license engines. And the exployees had to get the experience with the engine and game development from somewhere. No different then if a bunch of people that work for Lucas Arts start their own company, that has been done.
disclaimer: Okay I'm a Stubbs fanboy, even liked the soundtrack album. - Kwisatz, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7It's all about the hardware. We always hear about how all the console manufacturers take a hit on unit sales in the hopes that they'll make it up with in-house games and deals brokered with the likes of EA. Maybe if we all didn't get such a hard on for pumped-up polygon counts and showed the folks at MS and Sony that we're interested in truly innovative game play, they'd manufacture a system from which they could actually make a few bucks on hardware sales and just open up the development kits to anyone with interest. It'd be their way of giving us the equivalent of the camcorder, which surely helped to usher in the era of independent film.
- soogy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5Oh, man, was Stubbs ever sweet. That had to be one of the most original games I've ever played.
And do you know why I'm getting a Wii? Cheap developer kits means more independent games. I mean, $2000 for a developer kit? Even high schoolers can get them if they either come together or work hard during the summer. - br0ck, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5The author needs to spend more time at http://www.gametunnel.com/ ...
- dogside, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5Ever hear of Darwinia? It was a great game made by Introversion, a UK based company. They are not very big. they also made Uplink, which is pretty BA if you ask me.
- MrLobster, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6The big name companies have advertising budgets and of course people are going to hear from them more than the indie games. This is a ***** article, the indie gaming market is thriving.
- MikeSD34, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5Not all mods are so similar to the original engine that they are based on.
SOME Games that differ completely from HL and HL2:
Natural Selection
Global Warfare
Dodgeball
Empires
GoldenEye
Badge of Blood
Eternal-Silence
Firearms
With even more listed here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Half-Life_2_mods
And yes, some of them do spend years on development, to put out a quality release.
For some of them the only thing they have in common is the engine. It's not unusual for
retail games to share the same engine either.
SOME Mods that made retail:
CS
DOD
HL2:Death Match
Blue Shift
TFC
Even Microsoft has done a spot on modding HL and HL2
http://msdn.microsoft.com/coding4fun/half-life/
Why do we support modding? Because after paying for the game, you're free to mod it without paying anything you don't want to. Where as licensing a game engine can get VERY expensive. - Jarrod, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5And that's why 95% of games are mind-blowingly idiotic and boring.
- lukas88, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4What about darwinia? As far as I understand, it was an "indie" title. Very fun game.
Plus, gaming has it's own flavor of indie, called "open source". If you don't believe there are open source games, go search google for it. Some of them have become popular too. - SirNuke, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Atari 2600 was late 70s/early 80s? I'd imagine it was a lot harder to get info on games back then.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4there are al free alternatives to those packages you named, and they will all run on anyone home pc.
the real cost, is in the time required to write them. - Buelldozer, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Do you mean like the Wii and it's $2,000 dev kit?
- t3hX, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4EV Nova is a truly awesome game. If you haven't seen it, go get it now.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3sorry to burst your bubble but why does it matter if games are indie or not?
if indies could truly make worthwhile titles word of mouth would make them big. word of mouth is STILL far more powerful then any advertising budget.
bottom line is it's just like anything, people don't give a ***** about the underlining philosphy of a product, they only care that it delievers what they want out of it. - krux, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3There are a number of Indie game developers. It's just not as big as the big guys.. because.. well they're big guys and the indie guys are indie.
The indie guys even have their own Con. http://www.igf.com/
There is a site, http://diygames.com which has unfortunately ceased updating, which featured all kinds of indie game news. - raykart, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Cave Story! That's an indie game, one that kicks ass too!
- Yodacola, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Very pointless article. The reasoning and logic of this article is vague or not present.. and he still hasn't answered why.
Video games are cheaper than ever to distribute and redistribute. With services such as Bit-Torrent, Steam, and soon-to-be XNA, there is alot more games being published than even 2 years ago. Of course, you can't really go into a store and pick up a Indie game right? Of course, but can you buy a pie that is made from a local bakery at a store from across the country? No, or at least rarely. Indies prefer online distribution, because it is cheap or free for them and it provides a quick and easy way to improve their title.
Speaking of titles, EA, Sony, and Activison seem to be doing pretty well, despite the fact that they publish "bad titles." The reason why they publish constant sequels is largely due to the success of Sci-Fi TV shows. They build a large fan base and keep them excited through marketing. Watch The Princess Bride and find the part where they talk about the Dread Pirate Roberts. It is just plain proven success. - sinembarg0, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5That sounds great and all, but it doesnt work. The Atari 2600 had a lot of games for it, most of them were cheap crappy games developed by smaller companies and individuals. Most people chose to buy 3 games for $10 instead of 1 for $10. That was one of the reasons of the video game crash of the early 80's. Opening up the dev kit would flood the market with crap games and would be horrible for the industry.
- Derrekito, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Indeed and fun as hell!
- MalDON, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4Uhmm, I'm an indie game devdeloper and my game is going great.
- wai_xing_ren, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3You know, I hadn't even thought of that. Do you have a source for Nintendo representatives saying this?
It would be awesome to see Grand Theftendo on the virtual console. (Licensing issues there, but it's the most exciting homebrew I'm aware of; I bet he could work it out.)
Imagine an SNES port of Cave Story, Akuji the Demon, Eternal Daughter...any of those great freeware platformers.
All the fanboys crying for a Shadowrun Genesis sequel should pull together and make one for Sega Genesis hardware. (Again, licensing issues, but just change the name to "Shadow Runner" and pretend it's unrelated. Similarities like this haven't stopped the big money publishers from churning out GTA, Doom, and Warcraft clones for the past decade or so.)
This would beat the hell out of Xbox Live Arcade.
I've noticed the NES has doubled in price on eBay recently. I think people, like me, want to try out the old games again in anticipation of the new console. The price will probably rise even higher if they start releasing NEW games on the virtual console. People will play those on the Wii, and then they'll want to burn them onto a cartridge for play on a real NES, SNES, and so on. It could launch a huge trend, in addition to the game design innovation. - Splitt3rxx, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3the wii virtual console would be a great way to distribute indie games at a low price. I hope nintendo will do something like that.
- Inhibit, on 10/12/2007, -4/+6So would this imply that because a director uses commercial software and a Sony camera to produce their film they're not "indie-enough" for you?
Rigggght, because they need to be unknown and produce it like we did in the old days, with a flashlight and some thin paper! And we were *happy* with that! - Dygear, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2What about Live For Speed? 3 Guys making a kick ass race simulator.
http://www.LiveForSpeed.com/ - MightyGiant, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Gish is one of my all time favorite games. And it's indie to the core.
- millixaw, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2They can give away dev kits all they want, but the indie developers still have one obstical: publishing. They are unlikely to be able to publish a game themselves, they'd have to sell it to EA, Nintendo or another company who has the resources. Which means the indie game would go through some professional QA before release.
- Lososaurus, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2How to make the indie market go nuclear, have Nintendo reopen NES, SNES, N64 developement and GBA developement for mass electronic distribution, liscense out developement software. There's tons of hobby programmers and artists out there who would like to get their name out and get started in making major games, but it's a big leap, so starting out on a hobby GBA, SNES, N64 game would be perfect for them.
- ekso, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2how come there are no indie games??
the last independent games festival at GDC had almost 40 indie games!
have you ever heard of a nifty page called google.com?? - geminitojanus, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3"Do you have a source for Nintendo representatives saying this?"
He doesn't need one. Look, in order for the whole virtual console thing to work, it's going to /have/ to connect to the Internet. Clone site, Spoof site, load in any ROM you want. The only thing that could glitch this is encrypted ROMs, but even that could be defeated with a bit of work (Nintendo's not known for their incredibly good ROM-ripability, they just tend to keep people out with proprietary equipment and formats). - dan2, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Defcon(introversions new game) is in alpha and beta testing right now, it looks good so far from the games I've seen(can't play the alpha, only AI controlled). So good indie game makers do exist.
- Atomic1fire, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2not to mention it will drive nintendos popularity up becuase of the games popularity
- lendrick, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Okay, I'll bite. What sort of game is it? When will it be done? Do you have a website? A beta? :)
- KnightMareInc, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2garagegames.com
- electronicmaji, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Darwinia...
- Hexxagonal, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1umm... there are lots of "indie" games
- JFetch, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1The article is talking about console games, not PC. The simple answer is that it costs too much to make an indie game for a console. You have license fees, the cost of a dev kit, and the cost of an engine license. People also don't like to work for months on a game without getting paid like they are used to from the big companies. The only company that seems to be trying to make it easier is Microsoft with XNA, and the Live Arcade.
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