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- kd420, on 12/03/2008, -3/+262I'm not a huge gamer, but I know one thing. Gamers CAN be very loyal to a company/franchise if they want to. If you behave like "one of them" they will treat you well. If, however, you enforce stupid DRM policies, then they will purposely crack and pirate it with unimaginable vindictiveness. The more you fight it, the worse it becomes for you.
How do you fight piracy then? First, accept that there will NEVER be a 100% safe way to distribute any game. Put it out of your mind, because for every person who is stopped from pirating due to DRM protection, dozens will boycott on principle. Secondly, develop good games that people want to buy, and will stick with for sequels.
Look at the music industry, how do artists make money nowadays? Not from singles and MTV hits, but by creating a loyal fanbase (who WANT to support the artist, not HAVE to pay for music) and live shows. Until people see a product that they want to pay money for, there will still be piracy. The only way to create loyalty is to accept gamers' beliefs by not using DRM, and not treating them like criminals. - SirTheGuy, on 12/03/2008, -5/+189DRM is very stupid. All it does is encourage pirating and hurt the legitimate purchaser of the software. Companies such as Valve and Stardock are on the right track to find a good compromise between protecting their property and using non-intrusive methods and still creating a product that has advantages over cracked versions.
- Azerael, on 12/04/2008, -7/+85Just another reason why Valve are awesome. They just get it.
Is it too much to hope for that Mr. Newell could knock some sense into these douchebags so intent on using ***** SecuROM? - unrealmp3, on 12/04/2008, -1/+68DRMs are like beating a dog everyday, and hope it will love you for that. Guess what, you'll get a nasty bite one day.
Treat it carefully, and it will show respect. - Joolzter, on 12/04/2008, -1/+67All DRM does is hurt the honest, the dishonest bypass it all anyway.
- dontfriendme, on 12/05/2008, -1/+64I bought GTA 4 for PC the other day and it has absolutely atrocious DRM.
- 2 online activation checks on install
- CD Key
- forced installation/registration of Rockstar Social Club (which keeps putting itself in my startup list btw)
- forced installation/registration of Games for Windows Live
First 24 hours no one could get it going or SAVE THEIR GAMES because too many people were connecting to the Social Club thing (google "fatal error MMA10" to see what I mean). All the while anyone who pirated the game will have had no such problems at all. The pirates will have had a far easier, more pleasant experience than I did.
While researching the error on forums, I saw countless people swearing they would not buy more games form rockstar and would pirate the next release, and others saying they were going to buy it, but now will pirate it themselves. Game developers don't see to get that they are in a downward spiral:
- Developers add DRM
- users start pirating the game to avoid DRM
- Developers say "look, sales are down, piracy is up! this is why we need more DRM!" - iruel, on 12/05/2008, -3/+51He isn't saying DRM is dumb, he is saying most DRM strategies are dumb.
Steam differs in that it provides services (the ability to download your games anywhere as many times as you want, friends/community infrastructure, anti-cheating for multiplayer games) and support (auto updating, new content) for legitimate users.
where something like securom provides no benefit to the user. - bluemist, on 12/05/2008, -3/+49Valve's DRM on Steam is the hardest to crack. Pirated versions of their games almost won't be able to enjoy the multiplayer and online aspects because it will surely be banned from the system. Even if there are cracked servers, they're just too few, and pings too high to enjoy them. Not to mention the great lengths you need to do just to update your pirated builds everytime Valve adds new feature updates (like new stuff in TF2).
Also, their anti-cheat systems rock. For a customer like me, this is great because I am well assured that the other people I'm playing with (be it TF2 or L4D or CS) are playing fairly, with almost no hax and stuff. If some kind of hack does go through, I'd bet it'd be blocked in a matter of days. - Murdats, on 12/05/2008, -1/+35"99% of people of pirate games do it because its easy and you dont have to pay for it. "
that is quite true, it's also the reason steam has too much of my money, it is way too easy to buy a $10 game off steam when you are bored, how easy was it before to buy a nice $10 indy game before steam?
I also buy most of my games off steam because unlike most DRM which impose limitations on the product, steam adds value to games. - jengerer, on 12/04/2008, -1/+32I think the initial intention behind DRM was to prevent piracy simply by scaring people into thinking that it was unbreakable. Ironically, the massive amount of controversy around it was probably so publicized that everyone's aware of its vulnerability and uselessness.
Valve inspires me. - inactive, on 12/05/2008, -11/+42wait isn't steam a form of DRM
- shadydentist, on 12/05/2008, -2/+32Not true. If Valve ever ended support for steam, you would still be able to play all of your games offline. Only online features would be lost, but this is true of all multiplayer games whether or not they have DRM. In the meantime, the ability to download your games as many times as you need, keep track of friends, and now preserve game settings from computer to computer is more than enough reason for me to keep using steam.
- HarChim, on 12/05/2008, -0/+30Yes, Steam has DRM but it doesn't get in the way. Once you get a game from Steam, all you have to do is download and play. Reformat? Just download and play again. I can go on any computer, log into my account, and download any game I have and play it. It's super convenient and it never gets in your way. On the other hand, you have what EA did to Spore. You can only install in three times and I'm guessing you have to call them if you reformat a lot.
Most people understand that DRM is here to stay. It would be stupid for developers to just put games out there with no protection. The problem is that they keep making DRM difficult to deal with for consumers. Steam got it right. You never have to deal with CD-keys, activations, or anything. Just install and enjoy your game. - n00bian, on 12/05/2008, -2/+31am i the only one that doesnt find "microsoft doesnt get it" part in the article
cause after statements like:
"I think the problem with DRM is not so much the particular method used, but the attitude behind it. It makes us feel like we're all being punished for the sins of the few," Microsoft's Games for Windows Community Manager Ryan Miller wrote on his blog. "It is also pretty clear that most DRM is not a problem for the pirates, just for the legitimate consumers. These two factors combine to make a ton of bad feelings on the consumer side."
i think he pretty much got it - HappyScrappy, on 12/05/2008, -11/+39Valve vends DRM too. If you buy something on Steam, you cannot resell it or loan it to a friend. $50 for Fallout 3 that I can trade with friends or sell when I am done or $50 and have it locked just to me? It's not a difficult decision.
DRM is stupid. And that includes Valve's stuff. - Azerael, on 12/05/2008, -1/+25Steam lets me play my games and have DVD authoring tools on my computer at the same time. SecuROM does not. With Steam installed, my computer runs the same as usual. With SecuROM installed, it becomes crashtacular.
Nowhere did I say that DRM is inherently bad. I don't give a ***** if a company wants to protect its IP. But if I buy their *****, I dont want that DRM to get in my way or break my *****. Steam does not break my *****. SecuROM breaks my *****.
Get it, diddums? - Mejogid, on 12/05/2008, -2/+25You realise Stardock are completely opposed to DRM and use none whatsoever?
- Optimaximal, on 12/05/2008, -3/+24Technically it is - the publisher is controlling access to a portion of the game via a limited & controlled means - the very definition of Digital Rights Management.
Granted, Stardock aren't likely to start being c*nts about it, but they have the ability, just like Valve do. It's just not worth pissing off their customers. - Ziggy7273, on 12/05/2008, -0/+19CD Keys are perfectly fine and probably best when in conjunction with a system like steam. Its nasty secret bastard root-kits and other weird things that are just unacceptable.
- Gizza, on 12/05/2008, -2/+21CD Check is fine. Installing SecuROM that won't let you launch the game if you have multiple optical drives, nero or daemon tools isn't.
- theonlywizdum, on 12/05/2008, -0/+18Valve has already responded to this. In the event that they do go bankrupt, or shut down, they have a patch ready to push out that will allow people to still play their games.
- DemDude, on 12/05/2008, -6/+22Great idea. With linux having a market share of below one percent on home Computers, that sure is a huge group of potential buyers!
Sometimes, linux IS the answer. Most of the time, it's just a dumb idea. - ptFoe, on 12/04/2008, -11/+27if MS doesn't get it make some games for Linux
- jamesmcm, on 12/05/2008, -1/+17Well there's a serial key for updates I believe and I think you might also have to download their special updater app to do it as well.
- trakie, on 12/04/2008, -0/+15what about that single online authentication when i buy the game used?
or the servers that authenticate are swamped/down/busy when i want to play the game i just bought? - Shaflugi, on 12/05/2008, -3/+18I can't see Valve closing down in the forseeable future, considering they're one of the most badass developers out there. As such, I don't personally worry about "oh god I might lose my games". Besides, didn't they say they would release a "final patch" for Steam when that does happen that lets you keep all your games without needing to be online? (Asking for clarification, I honestly can't remember if I heard this somewhere or if I'm going insane)
- mohsenxp, on 12/05/2008, -0/+15You need a better dog. I beat mine all day and it loves me more and more.
You're not beating it enough. - japface, on 12/05/2008, -3/+17it's not stealing? what?
- dragonystic, on 12/05/2008, -4/+18Left4Dead is so sick
...that is all - Gizza, on 12/05/2008, -0/+14"Then what is Steam if not a DRM?"
Global friends list/chat/voice communication
Online store/digital distribution
Automatic Updates
Game manger
Community/Groups
Achievements
Stats
Network Manager/Server List/Matchmaker
Cloud (saved games/settings stored on server)
Play your games on any computer, no cd/cd key required.
That's just quickly off the top of my head. - JBrown99, on 12/05/2008, -1/+14Lol, vocal minority? Where have you been living for the past decade?
- shadydentist, on 12/05/2008, -1/+14I like to think that Valve encourages innovation from mod makers by hiring the best ones. With the CS, DoD, Portal, and Turtle Rock teams, Valve has made some very savvy acquisitions.
- inactive, on 12/05/2008, -0/+13You should never have to authenticate anything online to play a single player game...
- ZaZ2137, on 12/05/2008, -0/+12Spore and Far Cry 2 weren't even worth it.
- Tiak, on 12/05/2008, -1/+13Restricting updates isn't blocking access to content you own, DRM is defined in its prevention of certain usages.
Requiring a serial to get -new- content isn't DRM any more than having to pay for new content is a form of DRM. - sheetrock, on 12/05/2008, -0/+12@Optimamimal:
It didn't take activation, for-cost DLC, or server-side authentication to launch the game industry or make it profitable for its first twenty years -- even with the rampant piracy and used sales. I'd hardly consider decades of wild success "nowhere".
Frankly, it's hard to see any part of a game transaction involving good faith from their side. You buy a game off the shelf. Upon installing it on your computer, you're immediately presented with a license agreement you can't possibly fully understand but must accept to use your product. Then, you're forced to enter a string of gibberish and perhaps connect to a machine on the Internet for a secret transaction. You may not back up this $50 wafer. You never quite receive a finished game out of the box, and if you buy early enough you may have to wait weeks or months before the game is playable (or if you're lucky, complete.) If it's not playable, you certainly cannot return it to the store, and now they don't want you to be able to sell it to anyone else either.
I think us paying customers are about due for some good faith on their part. - Logicexe, on 12/05/2008, -0/+12This isn't a war between consumers and publishers, this is a war between publishers and pirates. Consumers are getting caught in the crossfire. Pirates are just as much to blame.
- internetcoward, on 12/04/2008, -1/+12I love valve, ever since the original half life came out then team fortress classic and counter strike. They seem to me like they worry about what is fun first then making money comes naturally. I wish more companes were like them... now we have too many space marine shooters and world war 2 games.
- TehProphet, on 12/05/2008, -0/+11How does steam constrict the freedom of it's users? I'm not sure if this applies to all games, but all that I have downloaded on steam (TF2, Portal, CS:S, HL2) can be downloaded on ANY computer, and played by any one person at any time, you just log into your account and all your games are there.. I think it's a great system. And so what if they want to make money, they work hard to make games, they come out with innovative ideas (the steam distribution platform being one of them) and they are a business, they deserve to get paid well for all that they have done, and porting Steam to Mac would probably take a lot of time and resources, of course they want compensation for that.
- Optimaximal, on 12/05/2008, -1/+11The developers (Rockstar North) didn't add the DRM. Rockstar (the publisher) did.
Credit where credit is due etc. - keithwired, on 12/05/2008, -2/+12Simple, give your friend username and password and let him play, and if you're going to say well then I can't use my account, its the same as lending someone the cd, only one person can play at a time you just have to decide who. Intrusive DRM is stupid, not DRM in general, make your living off selling digital content and lets see how mad you get if people can just steal your ***** for free and you make no income.
- ZippyV, on 12/05/2008, -3/+13Games I didn't buy because of the DRM:
- Spore
- Bioshock
- Crysis: Warhead
- Mass Effect
- Far Cry 2
That's already 250 $ that I saved and the game industry lost. - MiDri, on 12/05/2008, -0/+10Copyright Infringement != Piracy
Example:
Theft/Steal:
If I steal a car I have a car and the person I stole it from does not.
Copyright Infringement:
I download ironman, the original copy of ironman still exists and I have not robbed anyone of anything. Law dictates that I SHOULD pay the copyright holder, however; they are none the wiser to me not doing it.
So just for clarification Copyright Infringement != Piracy - ZippyV, on 12/05/2008, -0/+9And Offline play.
- Tbyrd073, on 12/05/2008, -1/+9Did I play the same game as you? Because I love Left4Dead.
- Gizza, on 12/05/2008, -0/+8Console games always cost more because they have to pay the console manufacturer as well, in this case Microsoft. How do you think these companies afford to see their consoles at a loss? They make money off every game sold for it.
- cnot3, on 12/05/2008, -2/+10Valve is one of the only companies I still buy games from. I mean, the value just ***** kicks ass, the orange box was worth its weight in awesomeness.
- Optimaximal, on 12/05/2008, -0/+7*BZZT*
The whole point behind DRM is customer control (stopping casual piracy) and defeating the second-hand PC games market. - Callidus, on 12/05/2008, -0/+7*mental image of obese nerds waddling into the harbor and struggling to throw an EA game case more than 3 feet*
- dhjackburton, on 12/05/2008, -6/+13It is theft of intellectual property.
I think what he means is that they don't actually lose money from the sale because there is no physical product to steal (assuming virtual distribution). They only lose a potential sale to generate revenue. Once the game is complete it costs next to nothing to digitally distribute it (assuming they have the hardware in place), unlike a physical good that has labor costs, material costs, transportation costs, and packaging costs.
But it is still theft. -
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