What is Digg?46 Comments
- quentinp, on 10/12/2007, -3/+16Yeah but I think they actually were in the black for those systems right? The big N consistently turns a profit if nothing else.
- PimpinOnWelfare, on 10/12/2007, -5/+17Cheap, fun, and it pisses sony off.
Those are the only pillars I need to return my un-bought PS3. - pathy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7I had a thought earlier...
Okay, I know graphics aren't the focus of the Wii, but I'm just wondering about it's life time, so to speak.
The 360 and the PS3 are going to last quite a few years - and it's clear that the quality of their audio and visuals is going to rise, quite a deal as devs become more skilled with them.. Now, here's what I'm getting at - The Wii will hit it's graphical 'wall' much sooner than the 360 and the PS3, and the latter two will look a hell of a lot better..
Do you think this would hurt the Wii in a few years? The difference now, while there, isn't *that* amazing, but what about when it's increased to a point where the Wii's graphics just look poor in comparison to the PS3, 360 and PC?
While I belive the Wii is going to do well for the time being, I can't help but feel that a strong graphical difference could eventually slow down it's sales, as people go towards the more appealing looks of the 360 and PS3. - bdickason, on 10/12/2007, -6/+12That didn't work too well for them with Gamecube/64 ;)
- kowsosoft, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6I think online multiplayer is a huge part of any new console system, or it has to be, at least. I've heard a number of console gamers state that they don't see how any new franchise-caliber game can do without online multiplayer coop, after Gears of War, so it sounds like there is a base assumption in some people's minds that online mp is almost a bare minimum. The Wii is marketed as a social console, as well, with Nintendo saying before it's release that they wanted it to bring all sorts of different people together, including people who don't normally play video games. You can't really have that vision and then neglect the online element; it simply doesn't make sense.
- seanalltogether, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7"That didn't work too well for them with Gamecube/64"
I know people like to gauge the 3 game companies in terms of consoles sold, but the earnings tell a different story. Nintendo as a whole made more money during the gamecube era then either Sonys Playstation division or MIcrosofts Xbox division.
http://web.archive.org/web/20051126042121/nintendoinsider.com/site/EEEZuAypVuTuOJPzyb.php
Nintendoinsider.com is down right now, so I had to use the wayback machine for that link.
While you may say that Nintendos strategies haven't worked for them the past 2 generations based on a popularity index, the company's profits tell a different story. - baddog121390, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Prepare to get dugg down for critizing the Wii
oh and I agree with you, the wiimote is going to get old - Dundasbro, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5I want multiplayer wii sports, imagine bowling games with all your friends!
- olddirtycr, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2The third point is what i've been wondering. The wii is obviously inferior graphics, they'd be good in 2001 but currently they are sub par at best. The wiimote is the selling point of the console. Eventually the "sweet I am using motion controls to play the game" will wear off and it may even get repetitive. Like the article says, its a gimmick. Which is why I think ps3 and xbox 360 will top wii in the future.
- Asianne, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3I have every confidence that multiplayer is within Nintendo's vision for Wii, and with Bill Gates noting Nintendo as a competitor, I'm sure even he is aware of what's to come from them as well. When you consider the latest numbers for World of Warcraft however, it will be a very difficult market to break into - as far as the vision to include people "who don't normally play video games". A 3 million person growth for wow in under a year is incredible, and the number of people "who never played an online game" takes up a large percentage of that growth - one can be assured that Nintendo has it's work cut out in the multi-player arena.
- seanalltogether, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2"In fact Nintendo should have dropped the price and sold the Wii at a loss to get more units out the door to get THIRD PARTY SUPPORT!!!!"
How can Wii get more units out the door when they're still sold out? I don't think they're having any trouble establishing themselves in the nex-gen playing field. - riplikethat, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2You missed the fourth pillar.
4) Fanboys on Digg - Exhaust, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Who gives a ***** how much money Nintendo makes or if their "in the black"? Only the stock holders give a *****.
I WANT GAMES! Thats what this article is about. Without third party support the console is going to fail and end up only being the Gamecube and Dreamcast. Loved only by hardcore fans.
So unless your a stock holder shut up with the "Nintendo is making money and Sony and MS are lossing money"
In fact Nintendo should have dropped the price and sold the Wii at a loss to get more units out the door to get THIRD PARTY SUPPORT!!!! In the end we the consumer want great games at an affordable price. - kauko, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2"Graphics are definitely a part of the experience, but would you rather have something super duper pretty with the same controller experience you've been using for the past 16 years, or give in to something with slightly less good graphics for the chance to actually swing your very own lightsaber? "
To be honest with you, I'll rather just press the "X" button or whatever, instead of flicking my wrist. When used in they way you describe, Wiimote gestures are just button presses and the amusement will wear of very quickly, maybe even turning into an annoyance.
If the actual gameplay is seriously flawed (like in Red Steel), it won't help if you have "innovative" controls. The game is effectively just the same. - Fidodo, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Swinging a sword will get old but pressing a button doesn't? That doesn't make sense, it will be innovative gameplay that makes games stand out, and the wiimote just helps that out. I don't see how that can be a valid point.
- Elric1977, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Pssst, try playing a game other than Wii Sports, jeez. hahaha
- raindog469, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1More than that, if Nintendo doesn't sell enough systems, no matter how much they make on each unit sold, and if the third parties don't make games for it, they get squeezed out of retail space. This happened in the UK and would have happened in the US this past fall even if not for the Wii.
No retail space means you're left with something like the Atari Jaguar. It really wasn't a bad system, but no one would carry it because Atari had reduced themselves to irrelevance with misstep after misstep. Despite Atari's statements to the effect that they weren't selling consoles at a loss, and threatening to sue Nintendo and Sega for "dumping" because they did so, it was the final nail in Atari's coffin. That's where Sega went even though the Dreamcast was brilliant, and that's where Nintendo would have gone if the Wii hadn't been as awesome -- and completely different -- as it is.
For those who predict the demise of Sony's gaming division, by the way, it took 3 market-share-losing platforms in a row to kill off Atari (5200, 7800, Jaguar) and Sega (32X/CD, Saturn, Dreamcast). Nintendo had two, but they seem to be recovering pretty well. So, even if you consider the PSP to be the first Sony failure and the PS3 turns out to be a bad move for them in the long term, they still have one more chance to make it right if history repeats itself. Sony's gonna be with us at least another 5 years, and that would be the worst case for them. - grumbel, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2@Wildthing
If the graphics would only be "slightly less" there wouldn't be a problem, the Wii graphics however are not "slightly less", they are five years behind the rest, meaning they are totally outdated. Mod me down if you like or to claim that the graphics of the last gen are 'good enough', that however doesn't change that fact that the Wii is very far behind in the graphical area, so much in fact that it *will* impact and limit gameplay (size of the environment, number of people, objects, etc.).
What good is it if I can swing my lightsaber around when the console isn't fast enough to give me a good reaction in the environment and enemies for that? I will swing my lightsaber and cut the environment into little bits and piece and not be feed with a bunch of generic destruction animation. Enemy character also have some serious AI under their polygon cover and not just jump around playing the same generic animations over and over again. Detailed interaction with the environment needs horse power, plenty of it, a new controller isn't the solution, just a tiny part of it.
Another issue is of course that the controller simply isn't up to what people hoped for. After the Wiimotes announcement people speculated about 1:1 mapping, position sensing and such, but the Wiimote can't do that. It only has accelerometers for three axis, while that can sense some things, it can't give you true 1:1 mapping of your motion. Many Wii games simply fall back to gesture recognition, which means that instead actually swinging the virtual lightsaber you simply trigger precreated motions with your movement, just like you would trigger them with a controller. The way you trigger them changes, the number of action you can use in the game however not really that much.
I am still very interested what new uses for the Wiimote will find, but so far I havn't really been much impressed with it. Better aim in FPS is a nice addition, but on the motion-sensing/1:1-mapping front there hasn't been much at all. Wii Sports does it, but only in a very limited environment where your whole way to interact is locked down to a single action (swing the raquet, throw the ball, etc.). What about games where I can not only throw the ball, but also kick it with my feed and put it into my inventory all at the same time? Will the Wiimote be able to handle that or will such a game be bugged with misdetections and other problems, or will it simply fall back to buttons for the other actions? - kauko, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1"If you are a graphics freak, you need to get a computer... Because they are coming out with the R600 series soon from ATI."
Yes, and no doubt they'll be coming out with a R700 or something next year, and R800 after that.
The thing is that I simply don't want to play on a PC. The games I want to play are not available on PC and I don't want to get sucked into the endless HW upgrade cycle.
I'm not a graphics freak, but I don't mind great graphics combined with great gameplay. For example, it's nice to see in a FPS game what you are actually trying to shoot at and not get killed because the game suddenly slows down to crawl when there are a few enemies on screen. - Wildthing, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2Graphics are definitely a part of the experience, but would you rather have something super duper pretty with the same controller experience you've been using for the past 16 years, or give in to something with slightly less good graphics for the chance to actually swing your very own lightsaber? I know the geek in me is willing to throw down $250 for that dream :D
- cmdrNacho, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I hope they will open up a official sdk for home users like xbox did. I think we will see some good applications coming out soon for the PC using the wiimote
- trubbleshute, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1"When you consider the latest numbers for World of Warcraft however, it will be a very difficult market to break into - as far as the vision to include people "who don't normally play video games""
People that play MMOs and people that play ANYTHING else are a breed apart. I used to play MMOs (dialup, yeah it was bad), but now I jump on for a quick fragfest in UT or GoW. Go and play Test Drive Unlimited, the solo/online modes blend together so nicely in that game that its almost impossible to distinguish sometimes. I gave the controller to my fiance to drive around and she had a blast--so much fun in fact now we have to get another 360 = she ain't getting the HD tv though! :P - TheSource, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2I think the Wii is bound for success because the platform is great. The one thing that ehy have to avoid is a software drought. That's it, really. If they have software droughts, which Reggie has vowed they won't have, then they'll do great. It's an easy system to develop for so that helps as well. All I know is I haven't owned a Nintendo console since the SNES, but I'm definitely buying a Wii eventually.
- grumbel, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1### Nintendo has said for a long time that they don't like multiplayer over the internet.
There is nothing wrong with that, in fact there is everything right with that. Multiplayer without internet is a lot more fun then multiplayer with internet, thus I hope that they will continue to deliver good multiplayer-with-one-console games. Nothing sucks more then having a game with a bunch of multiplayer options, but all of them requiring a second console and a second XBoxLive account. Split screen is good, all player on one screen even better, and there isn't much reason why games couldn't provide that.
All that said, there are however also plenty of times when you can have all your friends over at your house and where multiplayer via internet is the only quick&easy way to interact with them. Which is why in the end both internet play and split-screen/single-screen multiplayer are a must-have when they want to deliver the most of what a game could provide. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I'll take it
- kauko, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1"I think you have a logical reasoning with your thought, however, here is where I see the 'flip' side to your logic. When Wii hits it's Gfx 'wall' then they are free to make another Wii with a more robust Gfx card. Thus, I would think that it would be a win-win situation for Nintendo"
And a lose-lose situation for customers.
Wii's lack of power will be serious problem in a year or two. Expect very little 3rd party support, as when PS2 and Xbox support dries up, it'll be too expensive to make Wii versions because the difference in performance to PS3/XBox360/PC is huge. Re-designing everything (audio, graphics, levels, gameplay, AI etc) is way too expensive, especially when you consider that only Nintendo stuff has traditionally sold on non-handheld Nintendo consoles. - Psicosis, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I wrote a similar story on my blog a few months ago, and while online multiplayer is a must for the system I think it's more important for the Wii to have more pick up and play games such as Wii Sports (and eventually Wario Wear and Cooking Mama) for the console to really take off for the casual gaming market, the market which Nintendo seems so intent on grabbing.
- datagod, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1You want a killer app for the massess?
World of Wii-craft
Just don't let anyone know I told you. It is not yet official. - suprememilo, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1i'm probably selling my wii, the wiimote nunchuck thing got old, fast.
- dochollidaydds, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1eBay scalpers must be patting themselves on the back right now; they essentially shut down the chance for anyone to buy a wii for less then double the worth. According to recent reports, eBay scalpers sold 1.1 million units on eBay. from its November 19 launch through the end of 2006. As long as people bid this madness will continue. Come on diggers lets blackball ebay on this one
- skywake, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1actually... you can have up to four players in Wii Bowling with just one remote
..... of course, you can't do it over the internet.... because the only online game "Pokemon Battle Revo" is in Japan
and It just uses the Pokemon Diamond/Pearl DS system for online play *sigh*
hence... you have to use a specific "friend code" *double sigh*
personally, I can't wait for a Mario Kart type game.... online....
that cow racing game on Wii-Play... that is how racing games should be controlled... - WarezAppz, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0I think you have a logical reasoning with your thought, however, here is where I see the 'flip' side to your logic. When Wii hits it's Gfx 'wall' then they are free to make another Wii with a more robust Gfx card. Thus, I would think that it would be a win-win situation for Nintendo, because, they would be able to incorporate the experience they have with developing on the platform that they currently are and add in better Gfx. Thus, They would be 2nd Gen into a new gaming era leaving everyone else to keep up with following their innovation.
Of course all of this depends on Nintendo being able to maintain the precedence they have set with "making games fun again" vs. "more of the same" that has gave them this windfall thus far. - Frank_the_Tank, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1Well, it's got be good software. And it has to use the Wii-mote in ways which no other controller can compete for the experience.
So, basically, must-have exclusives that provide experiences you can't get anywhere else. - convoluted, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0I agree. I myself and thousands of others are not bored of mashing the close to identical controller that Sony has given us for years. I don't see how a significantly different and more flexible method of control based on the software and NOT hardware is merely a gimmick and will get boring soon.
- Wolfspirittt, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1I think a lot of the people in this post are missing the point. It always comes back to xbox 360/ps3 vs. the wii. Graphics are better, innovative game play with a wii-mote are better. What a lot are not realizing, is that the Nintendo Wii is almost a new market into itself. It's not targeting hard core gamers (although there are/will be games for the hard core gamer too), but instead, they are targeting the casual gamer or maybe someone who hasn't been gaming at all. I think of it as a whole new product line altogether with no competitors as of yet. A device which allows you to browse the Internet, view news, weather, play old classic games, wii-mote/nun-chuck enabled games with innovative controls, and possibly even applications. The wii is more of a "FAMILY" entertainment device as opposed to the "PLAY"station. For that reason alone it will do very well and is not a gimmick.
I haven't bought a console since the Dreamcast and before that I owned a 3DO and a genesis/snes combo, but the Nintendo Wii sparked my enthusiasm for a console based entertainment device as opposed to constantly upgrading my PC hardware. The three things that will make Nintendo successful were said to be:
Third party support - check. There are already tons of third party games and most developers agree that the wii is cheap, easy, and fun to develop for.
online multiplayer - check. Ever heard of WiiConnect24? It's not just a way to download old games, they already have online multiplayer plans, you just have to be patient.
more innovative uses for the Wiimote - check. I think swinging a sword and shield, sports related movements, running simulations, simulating surgeons tools, chopping up food, etc. are all very innovative ways to play and it's only 3 months into it. Again, be patient. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0 I think advertisement and the price had a key role in this!
Read more at www.ghforum.net! - Exhaust, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1@seanalltogether
Things will slow down. It's only been two months since launch. Just because the PS3 is sitting on the shelves in comparison doesn't mean the Wii its going to me a smash hit forever. Especially if they don't get any third party support. After 2007 is over and all the top 1st party Nintendo games are released then what? Wait another 2 years for the next Zelda or Mario? - craigb, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1Three pillars to wii success in 2007?
Mario Galaxy
Metroid Prime 3
Smash Brothers Brawl - Whackly, on 10/12/2007, -6/+4@bdickason
Says who? While M$ and Sony took losses on every system sold in order to make it up in software Nintendo made money on both games and hardware. They are already turning a profit on each wii hardware sale (albeit small) and the DS is the most popular gaming machine in the world. Nintendo isn't trying to be the number one in console gaming. They are trying to make the most possible money for their investors and grow their business. They have been relentlessly successful in doing so for a long time. - SniperGX1, on 10/12/2007, -3/+1Nintendo has said for a long time that they don't like multiplayer over the internet. They prefer multiplayer in the same room where you can build a party like atmosphere. Hopefully if those rumors about Smash Brothers Brawl are true that will change in the near future.
- suprememilo, on 10/12/2007, -3/+1cause you know you could run WoW off a DVD, or 512mbs of flash. . .
- pathy, on 10/12/2007, -5/+2Firstly, I'm not talking about any current. R600 will be low-mid end for the time scale I'm talking about.
Second, ATi suck. G80, bitch. - thedemographic, on 10/12/2007, -3/+0All that have is to release "special edition" colors with a lil mario on the front and they will sell a ***** ton.
- TridenTBoy, on 10/12/2007, -6/+2If you are a graphics freak, you need to get a computer... Because they are coming out with the R600 series soon from ATI.
- bgramer1, on 10/12/2007, -4/+0You can already bowl with your friends. Just buy 3 extra wiimotes and call them over. :-)
- quentinp, on 10/12/2007, -15/+4I think Wii will succeed without any of those in Nintendo's own way...where they ignore what everyone else expects and thinks and sell their product and make money anyways, even if they don't "win".
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