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Super Smash Bros. errors may be more than they seem

destructoid.com — After last months issue with "Dirty disc" problems in Japan, it may be no surprise that the same issues are popping up in the U.S. Nintendo has a remedy and plans to "Clean" every defective Wii. The problem? It's a lie. But a lie that may be good for gamers in the long run.

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  • Dreamscar, on 03/10/2008, -21/+153No facts to back up what he says, just pure speculation. Nintendo is offering a fix at no cost to the consumer, good for them. I wish more companies acted like, and were on the ball like Nintendo, especially considering Brawl has been out for what, 4 hours?
    • RonWorkman, on 03/10/2008, -23/+16no facts? Common sense and an employee of Nintendo backing it up? Also, look around, there are a ton of blogs confirming that people are in fact having problems
      • john2kx, on 03/10/2008, -4/+13"common sense" + your "insider" at Nintendo != facts

        While I'm sure you may feel strongly about this evil conspiracy, Ron, I can assure you that at this point it's still speculation.
        • nova9, on 03/10/2008, -3/+1I heard you can adjust laser power if you open up your wii there is a resistor pot you can turn to adjust. That's how you clean the wii. look it up on google
          • Elranzer, on 03/10/2008, -1/+3You go on ahead and do that...
          • john2kx, on 03/11/2008, -0/+1In all seriousness, don't do that. Increasing the intensity of the laser will dramatically shorten its lifespan..
            And no one wants their wii to die.
    • studionashvegas, on 03/10/2008, -15/+5Dreamscar: SSBB has been out for 2-3 weeks... in Japan. And that's plenty of time for customers to ship their Wii to Nintendo and get it back before you get the game.

      Yeah, it's nice they're doing it free... but it still shouldn't happen in the first place.
    • indigit4l, on 03/10/2008, -50/+5***** Obama
    • bingobongony, on 03/10/2008, -14/+26More companies DO do this when it is clearly their ***** up. This is not some peice of great customer service.
      • purzzzell, on 03/10/2008, -3/+14not necessarily - even if you ARE covered under warranty, it's not uncommon for a company to charge you at least shipping for one of the directions.
      • JagoX, on 03/10/2008, -4/+3They do...hmm...so did MS admit to the RRoD problems right off the bat?

        Oh wait...
        • ThndrShk2k, on 03/10/2008, -3/+1No they didn't, but they also charged you to fix it.
          Nintendo may not admit to the problem right away, but they're 'cleaning' the problem for free
    • Ajajadude, on 03/10/2008, -1/+4Well, the speculations make sense if you think about it, especially if people that have a brand-spanking new Wii are encountering this problem. I don't care too much, it's just nice to see them actually fixing it for free (reminds of when Sony rolled out with their DNAS thing for online play. I had to send in my PS2 and would have had to wait a week or so to play my Socom 3 beta disc if one of my roomates didn't have a "newer" PS2).
    • TobiasParker, on 03/10/2008, -4/+16I am sure this is said lower down in the comments, but i think it should be in the first reply.
      Microsoft just had this exact same problem with Bully, but was crucified for it. We shouldn't let Nintendo get an easy ride.
      • purzzzell, on 03/10/2008, -8/+2I'm not aware of this as I don't have a 360 - did Microsoft take care of it nice and easy?

        And, the main reason some of us are letting Nintendo 'get away' with this is - How's M$'s history in handling console issues? In case you can't read the writing on the wall, I'm refering to the RROD, which they DENIED as being a problem for WELL OVER A YEAR.
        • doubledmateo, on 03/10/2008, -5/+9The bully issue has nothing to do with hardware fixes, or 'dirty lenses.' Rockstar stated that there was a compatablility issue with the game and some of the first hardware (BS, I've got a new 360 and it still suffers the framerate jitters and freezeups of the old ones) and Rockstar is sending out a patch next week to fix it.

          Nintendo always gets let off the hook because of these zombie fan boys that will praise it no matter what. Games like Bully fall under the scrutiny they deserve.
          • purzzzell, on 03/10/2008, -3/+6I don't have loyalty to any game manufacturer. I have a degree in business.

            Nintendo did what was appropriate here - they fixed the problem at no cost to the consumer, apparently even if it's out of it's one year warranty (launch console). There's no "hook" to let them off of - people called with an issue, they acknowledged, and fixed.

            You can say it was a problem that it happened in the first place, but hey, that's how it goes - as someone said below, near EVERY console has had SOME SORT of problem along the way - they had a response for it within a few HOURS of being made aware of it.

            They're getting off the hook b/c we compare it to the year+ of denial regarding the Red Ring of Death. One company, when faced with a problem, is handling it properly in comparison to one that DID NOT properly handle a much worse one.
          • doubledmateo, on 03/10/2008, -0/+3I don't argue that, but if you're going to compare it to Rockstar's situation (not talking about MS and the RROD issue here.) Then the situation is the same. Both admit there is a problem and are doing whatever they can to fix it in a timely fashion (one week) at no cost to the consumer. This is exactly the way it should be handled. My point is that the reactions to the two have been very different. Rockstar and MS (even though it wasn't there issue.) were raked over the coals for it. With Nintendo it's just a lot of cheering with folks saying, "Nintendo loves us because they're going to fix a problem that was their fault! Yay!" If you compare this to the RROD issue then that's a totally different story, I completely agree.
          • purzzzell, on 03/10/2008, -3/+2ADDENDUM (took to long editing - I cited my degree b/c I was educated in how a business SHOULD care for it's customers and respond to negative situations/PR. By responding poorly, Microsoft turned a defect, that they could have just dealt with and apologized for, into what is effectievly a scandal and will be a mark on their reputation for at least a decade.

            and I'm thinking, in regards to "letting Nintendo off the hook" that you are NOT one of the people who had to pay $120 (not 100% certain of the amount, but I'm pretty sure I'm close) and be w/o their 360 for well over a month, as this was Microsoft's response (for a LONG time) to the RROD if you were out of warranty.
          • purzzzell, on 03/10/2008, -3/+1Like I said initially, I don't know about the Bully issue - BUT - I think the reason people are saying "hey, they're fixing it, all good" is because OVERALL, it's being compared to RROD. That's the "BIG GAME MANUFACTURER DEFECT" that's fresh on all our minds (heck, probably the biggest defect in the history of consoles)
          • TobiasParker, on 03/10/2008, -1/+2So you can assume microsoft has known all along that 1/3rd of it's consoles would eventually fail. No one can assume that maybe they had no idea exactly what the problem was and thus did not know what action would be appropriate.
          • purzzzell, on 03/10/2008, -1/+4No, but after the first couple hundred or thousand with the same issue, you have to consider there's an epidemic and think about reacting to it. Microsoft didn't.

            Nintendo responded in a matter of hours and is fixing out of warranty systems.
          • frygar, on 03/10/2008, -0/+1LOL @ all the fanboys digging down Purzzzell. What he says is true, folks, no one has ever had to twist Nintendo's arm to get them to fix their problems - unlike another company in Redmond with an atrociously high console hardware failure rate.

            What did the cardboard coffin say to the Xbox 360?
            "Jump In."
        • TobiasParker, on 03/10/2008, -1/+3they released a downloadable patch off of Xbox Live. I cannot personally comment on the RRoD as i use my box about 6 hours a day for almost two years now and i have had no trouble that simply clearing my Cache hasn't fixed.
        • Nearoschyth, on 03/10/2008, -6/+2As far as I can remember, they only denied the statistics. Still, they extended the warranty on all consoles and started fixing them or sending out new ones. They are still willing to fix RROD'd consoles, and people are still talking ***** about them. There has always been a double standard against Microsoft and for $N$i$n$t$e$n$d$o$.
          Yeah, man. That'll stick it to the corporations! I look really cool now.
          • purzzzell, on 03/10/2008, -3/+4they are NOW willing to fix RROD consoles, they were charging initially - and did so for quite some time - that's where the problem is - they did the right thing, EVENTUALLY. The part they did wrong (that Nintendo is doing right in this instance) is how long it took them to do the right thing.

            and beyond denying statistics, they charged people $120+ to fix 'em until they extended the warranty.
          • popfrogs, on 03/10/2008, -1/+4Yeah, what Purzell said. Microsoft is never, ever proactive. It takes a lawsuit to get their attention, and even then the lawsuit has to have merit.
          • Coffeedemon, on 03/10/2008, -1/+3"hey are NOW willing to fix RROD consoles, they were charging initially "
            only if your warranty had already expired. Thats important since you're setting up for criticism and the operation to fix the RROD is more complex than this cleaning that Nintendo is talking about.
          • frygar, on 03/10/2008, -0/+1Spoken like a true Microshill. TM
    • jperras, on 03/10/2008, -9/+7Let's not forget the Nintendo NES days, when both the games and the system were deliberately made to fail prematurely so that the consumer would purchase more. Nintendo has come a long way indeed...
      • arcticblue, on 03/10/2008, -1/+5My NES and all my games still work perfectly. Even my Fester's Quest game that got left out in the rain when I was in the 3rd grade.
      • candafilm, on 03/10/2008, -1/+3I've never heard of that. I guess they forgot to make mine fail. After my experiences, I wish all my electronics were as reliable as the NES.
      • Etchii, on 03/10/2008, -1/+3Fully functional NES & Games here, going on 20 years in my possession now....of course there is the blowing and positioning of the cart in the "sweet spot" of the console, but it works!
    • doubledmateo, on 03/10/2008, -3/+13Wow, are you seriously that blind and devoted to Nintendo? It's a cool system but it's amazing how devoted some folks are to it. Why is Nintendo going to pay the millions it'll cost to take care of a problem that is caused by dust? it's not out of the goodness of their hearts, it's because they made a mistake. it happens and isn't a big deal. They analyze the issue and say, "it's going to cost us x amount to recall the faulty units and fix the laser, and it'll cost us y amount if we claim it isn't our fault and hundreds of thousands of people file a class action lawsuit. If y is greater than X then the issue the recall. They say it was just a dirty lens because they want to avoid the negative hype of having faulty units. It's the same reason MS didn't come right out and admit fault on the RROD issue. Its better if you can keep that stuff out of the spotlight.
      • TobiasParker, on 03/10/2008, -1/+4If A plus B is less than C, then we don't issue a recall.
        • doubledmateo, on 03/10/2008, -2/+0exactly! Fight club for the win!
    • damon5334, on 03/10/2008, -0/+2As I said in the last post that was made about this. Nintendo HAD to do this. If they just sat idle while people started filling in the message boards and blogs with complaints about their Wii not playing SSBB then they wouldn't keep their lead in the Home Console market. After all, it was Nintendo's cheap price, along with their reliability that was such a draw for a lot of buyers.
    • GreenGrassyNoel, on 03/10/2008, -1/+2I don't care about how this is done or what they are trying to do, just give me ranked online battles.
    • frygar, on 03/10/2008, -1/+1You forgot to add to that, this was reported on _Destructoid_, a site who will report pretty much anything as fact. BUT THEY GOT A SHINY GREEN ROBOT SO THEY MUST BE LEGIT LOL AMIRITE?
      To those that are having this problem, though, that really sucks. I haven't experienced it yet personally (and I've been playing the game a LOT this past weekend...) but I have had to use Nintendo's customer service line in the past regarding a broken gamecube, and I gotta say - their customer service is as good as everyone says it is, and best of all, there's no snarky generic gamer automaton "Max" when you call.
  • Wiinii, on 03/10/2008, -28/+18I got news for you; if I can play BURNED d/l media, then how are they going to tell me it can't read a RETAIL d/l disk because my laser needs cleaned? *****!
    • BlueSkyfish, on 03/10/2008, -3/+21Because your Wii isn't affected. I have a launch Wii, and it plays Brawl fine.
      • Ellipsys, on 03/10/2008, -0/+2I hear that launch Wiis, like yours and mine, handle dual layer media better. Hasn't been confirmed, but I hear the problems are with "C" revision drives?
        • revisrev, on 03/10/2008, -0/+1I have a launch unit and mine won't read the disc. Also, I have to agree with the article. I mean, what's Nintendo going to do, clean my laser every six months for the life of the console? No, it's a (slightly) defective unit.
          On the lighter side, when I stuck the disc in and it didn't work, my first instinct, which I followed, was to take the game out, blow on it, and then blow into the Wii... lol, didn't work.
    • KloroFormd, on 03/10/2008, -4/+19Do you have to post the exact same comment every time this issue hits the front page?
      • Wiinii, on 03/10/2008, -3/+1No dickwad, I posted it in all of them BEFORE they hit front page. That might explain why it's the 2nd comment genius.
        • Drull, on 03/11/2008, -1/+2That somehow makes it more relevant?

          Clean your laser, *****. :Þ
    • WolverineBlue, on 03/10/2008, -3/+8Well, SSBB is among the first dual layer disc games for the Wii; I'd guess that's the reason, not whatever insane conspiracy BS you had in mind.
      • nova9, on 03/10/2008, -0/+3Complete BS. Nintendo could have at least stuck in ONE DL disc to test it ONCE before shipping final hardware and design. It seems like they did not do that as the FIRST DL game hardly works.
    • CMiYC, on 03/10/2008, -1/+3Because the materials for burned discs is completely different from retail discs. Retail discs aren't burned, they are a thin metal film which is stamped. Burned discs made up of die, which is where the term "burn" comes from.
      • Wiinii, on 03/10/2008, -1/+2And that's exactly why DVD drives can read retail disks better than burned ones, thanks for making my point clearer.
  • Dgen_X, on 03/10/2008, -7/+98Nintendo doesn't give things away for free? really?
    My new wii-mote straps and condoms...I mean covers say otherwise
    I know it's not much, but I'd think that a disc drive cleaner would be pretty close to the cost of 4 of those wii remote sheaths.

    bad blog...get me a rolled up newspaper so I can wap your nose
    • B1663r, on 03/10/2008, -3/+11My suggestion is keep your wii mote sheaths in your wallet and go get a game cube controller for ssbb. It is kinda a bad game for the wiimote.
      • poxonyou, on 03/10/2008, -5/+4Even better, buy a PS2 to Gamecube converter (some are remarketed as PS2 to Wii now). I can't stand the GC controller, but have 2 of these cheap adapters and 2 PS2 controllers. Works perfect, including the vibration.
        • iofthestorm, on 03/10/2008, -3/+10Gamecube controller is lightyears ahead of the PS2 controller. Even the PS3 controller still doesn't have the left analog and D-pad swapped, which is just silly. The Gamecube controller is also much easier to hold than a PS2 controller.
          • MacMan88, on 03/10/2008, -2/+2it's not sony's fault for using the same controller layout since 1994.
            /sarcasm
          • bingobongony, on 03/10/2008, -0/+5So..they should make their controllers based on what YOU prefer?
          • poxonyou, on 03/10/2008, -0/+2Totally disagree. Not a Sony fanboy, I just like the Dual Shock design a lot more. To each their own.
          • lion1750, on 03/11/2008, -0/+1The PS2 controller hurts my hands after a while, so I'll stick with my game cube controllers.
    • bingobongony, on 03/10/2008, -12/+3Cheap fixes to cover up their original mistakes of having inadequate straps in the first place. They did it because it was cheaper than fighting off potential lawsuits. As well as to stop any bad publicity that may have slowed down sales.
      • purzzzell, on 03/10/2008, -1/+9-and that's called GOOD BUSINESS.

        *****, what don't some of you people get?
        • bingobongony, on 03/10/2008, -2/+3Didn't say it wasn't...Actually...my post pretty much says THE EXACT SAME THING.

          The point is...Nintendo's decision with the new straps, and with this is a FINANCIAL ONE. It is not a benevolent "Let's be generous to our customers" one. With the straps that had people who determined the probability of getting sued, the probability that theywould be found at least partially liable, and the expected payout from all the lawsuits. They then added to it the expected lost future sales from people who were afraid to buy it for their kids. They took that number and compared it to the cost of sending out the straps.

          If the cost of sending out the straps was less than the expected cost of doing nothing, it would NOT have been done. And since it was purely a financial decision...EVERY company does the same thing.
      • frygar, on 03/10/2008, -0/+2-1
        You sir, LOSE an internets. Good day.
    • dash1185, on 03/10/2008, -2/+2Very bad blog. I couldn't even focus on reading the article because I couldn't stop starring at that stupid dancing avatar
    • daridave, on 03/10/2008, -1/+2Speaking of straps, I'M STILL F*ING WAITING FOR THEM. Oh, and I got my Wii zero-day. I ordered them ASAP. What's wrong? Losing faith here...
    • namelessted, on 03/11/2008, -0/+1are you ***** retarded? A disc cleaner costs about $0.50. are your ***** retarded? all it is is a blank disc with a couple tiny little brushes on it to wipe the lense
  • deltron, on 03/10/2008, -43/+6bury me for not having this game yet.
  • latova, on 03/10/2008, -11/+54So the article author thinks that Nintendo must be doing something evil because they're fixing consoles for free. At the end, he states how they are replacing consoles instead of cleaning them, and then makes some reference to Nintendo being evil by lying to gamers and making a lot of money.
    • RonWorkman, on 03/10/2008, -6/+8This is actually great news for the general consumer though. A new Wii is always better than an old one. So the statement from Nintendo is a lie that in some way works out better in the long run for gamers.

      did you somehow miss those lines
    • Ajajadude, on 03/10/2008, -0/+8I don't think he was saying they were doing something evil. He just doesn't think the whole bit about the lens being dirty is legit.
  • Zanarkand, on 03/10/2008, -21/+5I would be interesting to see if Nintendo ships users back a Gamecube instead of a Wii back to play SSBB....
    • IronPwnage, on 03/10/2008, -2/+7You're never going to be interesting I'm afraid.
  • Wiinii, on 03/10/2008, -5/+18It's also confirmed that SSBB is not working with modchips like WiiKey...even retail copies:
    http://psx-scene.com/wii/portal.php
    • requiem3, on 03/10/2008, -4/+2...The retail version of Brawl is NOT "not working with modchips like WiiKey", its not working with the WiiKey specifically. Most, if not all, other modchips have no problem playing the original retail version of the game.
    • sykotic, on 03/10/2008, -4/+3Wrong. YAOSM has had support before the game came out. Rawdump is update to read double layer DVDs like this one and time moves on. It is sad when the legal copies don't work as well as the burns.... oh well. That's what you get for trying different protection schemes that break the retail versions too.
    • Evi1d33d, on 03/10/2008, -2/+4I got OpenWii chip (based on YAOSM for dual layer reading) that works perfectly on my retail version. I think Nintendo just block out the popular modchips.
    • boxybrzown, on 03/10/2008, -3/+1This doesn't seems to be 100% true yet, at least one guy there is posting that he got his to work.
    • maniacripper, on 03/10/2008, -1/+0It's not that Nintendo "blocks" certain modchips, its the way the Wiikey interfaces with the DVD drive and how it handles dual layer information transfering
  • domdunc, on 03/10/2008, -5/+37The guy makes a good point about the fact that if it is dirty lenses surely they'll just get dirty again.

    So this means they're probably lying. So what? It's broken, they're fixing it for free. I don't see the problem. My best guess is there's some kind of crazy new copy protection in the game that's not compatable with certain batches.
    • wardrox, on 03/10/2008, -4/+12You don't see a problem with them outright lying to customers?
      • iofthestorm, on 03/10/2008, -11/+10It's called a white lie, the consumer gets their working Wii, Nintendo gets the consumer's money for Brawl, everyone is happy. Except stupid conspiracy theorists like this blog.
        • Cl1mh4224rd, on 03/10/2008, -3/+10> "It's called a white lie, the consumer gets their working Wii, Nintendo gets the consumer's money for Brawl, everyone is happy. Except stupid conspiracy theorists like this blog."

          Wow... I'm a little disturbed to see people give Nintendo a free pass on this issue. What qualifies as a "white lie" to you? When does it stop being a white lie? When the issue affects 1% of the customers that bought SSBB? 5%? 10%? Will Nintendo even reveal the numbers?
          • masterofshadows, on 03/10/2008, -3/+1Its not a free pass, they are correcting the issue, all they are doing is lying about the actual cause. If they told the truth that the system was faulty that would likely cause stock in Nintendo to drop. They gotta cover their asses you know.
          • Cl1mh4224rd, on 03/11/2008, -0/+1masterofshadows wrote: "Its not a free pass, they are correcting the issue, all they are doing is lying about the actual cause. If they told the truth that the system was faulty that would likely cause stock in Nintendo to drop. They gotta cover their asses you know."

            Amazing... You'd be crucifying Microsoft or Sony for "lying about the cause", even if they offered a free "cleaning". You people make my head hurt.
          • masterofshadows, on 03/11/2008, -0/+1except for the fact that i wouldn't, That is SOP for all companies regardless of what they do games, hotels, everybody lies. learn to live with that.
        • stolemybike, on 03/10/2008, -3/+5Wow. That doesn't even deserve words. Fanboys are really something.
      • masterofshadows, on 03/10/2008, -6/+5You seem to think nintendo is the first one to tell a white lie to placate their consumers. News Flash, that is SOP for every company whenever ***** hits the fan and the truth would hurt more than the lie.
      • poxonyou, on 03/10/2008, -7/+8I suppose they'd think it'd be confusing to list the exact technical reason to consumers, so they just said something simple most people can understand. "Oh, it's dirty. OK." Rather than, "Wait.What? Explain this again. The disc has 2 layers??? Huh? 2 discs? I only see one. The lazit in my Wii has problems reading 2 layers??? Huh? OK. This is not what I wanted when I bought this Wii thing. I'll never buy one of these game things again. Ugh"
        • purzzzell, on 03/10/2008, -5/+10Having worked in sales of complex technology of which the consumer has no understanding, I would like to attest that you hit the nail on the head beautifully - Nintendo apologized, paid for all expenses (and data transfer hassle) in the replacement, that's all they should be expected to do (and apparently they're doing it damned quick too!)

          Diggers may be surprised to find out how many computer buyers will say something up the same alley of": "wait, this only has 1 (or 2, 3, or 4)gb of MEMORY? I have a lot of pictures to store, don't most computers have 60 or 80? What are you trying to sell me?"
          • Flynnz, on 03/10/2008, -1/+3its one thing to fix the problem, its another thing to blame it on the consumer. They are not saying "nothing" (like MS tried for a little while with the 360), they are saying the issue is caused by dust/smoke. Which is pretty lame.

            And while I agree with you lots of people dont know ***** about tech. There are PLENTY of Wii owners who can understand the oh so very technical statement that is "Faulty DVD drive" Or "faulty hardware" in general.
        • Flynnz, on 03/10/2008, -2/+7heh thats a crock. They are telling people that its dust related to push some of the blame away from them and to the customers. They wouldnt have to get as technical in your statement to tell the truth. They could easily put a press release saying "some of the optical/dvd drives will need to be replaced if you are having an issue with some games" ....see simple. But by doing that they are admitting the console has/had some defective hardware. And once that gets out there, that could hurt their reputation. Lets please not try to spin this more than it is. (we all love Nintendo but come on people)
        • Cl1mh4224rd, on 03/10/2008, -2/+4> "I suppose they'd think it'd be confusing to list the exact technical reason to consumers, so they just said something simple most people can understand. "Oh, it's dirty. OK.""

          Ummm... BS. "The drive in your system is defective," is also very simple and easy to understand. Except it causes a PR problem that Nintendo would rather do without. They want to keep the Wii's reputation immaculate. Period.

          "Oh, it's just dust, not a defect. Your fault, actually, for being so dirty, but we'll "clean" it for you for free, because we're nice guys" isn't for the consumers; it's for themselves. I'm honestly surprised so many of you are so willfully blind to this.
          • poxonyou, on 03/10/2008, -1/+2Not arguing against you guys. That sounds like a good explanation as well, to cover their ass. So, they're either worried about bad PR, troubling consumers, or both.
    • LittleDas, on 03/10/2008, -1/+6People have been bitching and moaning about having to send their 360s in for repairs for ages.
      I find it hard to understand why people who say 'it's no big deal' about that are dugg down so viciously whereas you are dugg up.
      • BriscoeJr, on 03/10/2008, -4/+1Maybe because it only takes a 1 week.
    • LittleDas, on 03/10/2008, -1/+8and people are getting dugg up for saying 'who cares if nintendo lies to us'
      wtf, is it opposite world on digg now?
      is nintendo supposed to be the new apple?
  • Sharky35, on 03/10/2008, -40/+6Poor wii owners....
    Brawl is the console making game??? are you kidding me?
    • purzzzell, on 03/10/2008, -8/+7What are you a fanboy for, Sony or M$?

      and by the way, Brawl rated with IGN as high as Halo 3 - sorry if it's not your cup of tea, but your 18 buries tell me the rest of teh community here agrees with me.
      • neshcom, on 03/10/2008, -3/+1You're going to compare SSMB to Halo 3 based on score alone? Also, I'm sure no community you may be apart of will like being called a "teh."

        Friggin idiots...
        • purzzzell, on 03/10/2008, -2/+1I can compare them based on anything I want, my point is that they're both console-making games, and he's an idiot (and obviously a fanboy based on his "poor wii owners" comment) for saying Smash Bros. shouldn't be. I'm not supercompetive, I like FUN games - Dreamcast was the last good system for them, Wii is the current one.

          And you invalidated any other ***** you talked at me by insulting my typing. When all else fails, insult someone for a typo.
      • nova9, on 03/10/2008, -2/+1Damn, but halo 3 sucked penises esp in single player...it feels insulting to put Brawl beside Halo 3. I played for 10 minutes of Halo 3 and almost want to throw it out having been pissed with all the hype for this over strectched series.
    • Natetendo83, on 03/11/2008, -0/+2"Brawl is the console making game??? are you kidding me?"

      yes and no...now stfu while I play this awesome game between sessions of COD4
  • Apokalyps2547, on 03/10/2008, -6/+7Got my Wii opening day. Should I expect a problem?
    • BuddyDoQ, on 03/10/2008, -1/+6Nope, my launch-day Wii has been running Brawl all day. If by chance you do have an issue, looks like Nintendo will get you fixed right up, hassle-free.
    • Schmapdi, on 03/10/2008, -1/+2I got my Wii for Christmas of 06, and its worked fine with Brawl for me today.
    • GreyICE, on 03/10/2008, -1/+5Launch day Wii, and I just played it for maybe 10 hours. No problems. I bet its probably 1-2% of wiis, tops, and this is just being blown out of proportion. With 14 milllion sold, even a tenth of one percent is 14,000 people.
    • Poochyfud, on 03/10/2008, -1/+3Got my Wii at launch and Brawl at launch. I've played for like 12 hours without problems.
    • Apokalyps2547, on 03/10/2008, -1/+3Thanks for the feedback, I am much more at ease.
    • woodman445, on 03/11/2008, -0/+1Yep, same here. Launch Wii and I've been playing Brawl all day long with no problems.
    • metalhead87, on 03/11/2008, -0/+1Ditto here....plays just fine on my launch day Wii.
  • boodog, on 03/10/2008, -28/+5Are Obama,Ron Paul or a LoLcat playable characters in the game? Why does this community day in and day out focus on the same *****?!?
    • asskey, on 03/10/2008, -1/+6If I could trade your soul for another copy of the game...I would. Oh yes I would.
    • afipanic, on 03/10/2008, -1/+5if its the same ***** everyday, which you obviously don't like, why are you still here?
      • purzzzell, on 03/10/2008, -1/+3well said :)

        and this community isn't too bad for LOLcats.....
        • Xondar, on 03/10/2008, -1/+2There definitely could be more LOLcats.
  • vhold, on 03/10/2008, -3/+21"If it's a dirty lens, most store bought DVD lens cleaners would do the trick. "

    In my experience, those lens cleaners often make things worse. On top of that, because the DVD won't play in the Wii, it's not going to play the tracks correctly to get the lens in the right position for the brushes anyways.

    Besides, if they are putting new drives into the systems, what's the big deal? That's not much of a conspiracy.
    • RonWorkman, on 03/10/2008, -2/+4at no point did I say it was a conspiracy or bad. I just wanted to point out that Nintendos excuse was BS and they have confirmed it.
    • FieldAnonymouse, on 03/10/2008, -1/+0Also add to that the brush stands a chance of getting caught up in the internal disc handling mechanics and causing even more damage in the event it gets torn off. A very good reason to not try any off the shelf cleaning product in a slot loading drive.
  • engrishGamer, on 03/10/2008, -13/+13This is incredibly stupid...just because Nintendo is replacing the systems instead of cleaning them doesn't mean it's a product defect...I mean, did you guys see the story of the kid with the autographed 360 that sent it into Microsoft to get it fixed? They REPLACED it. They don't have time to be cleaning machines and keeping track of which machine belongs to a specific customer, that's stupid. Add on to the fact that the system's contents (DLC, etc) is on removable HDDs or, in the case of Wii stuff, able to be transfered to an SD card or redownloaded free of charge, it's actually easier to replace the system
    • iofthestorm, on 03/10/2008, -2/+11Actually, the autographed 360 wasn't replaced, they just cleaned it off. I can't remember what it was but there was definitely evidence that it was the same 360 and that someone had cleaned off the autographs. But other than that, I agree with you, people are making up ***** conspiracy theories out of nothing, and in a situation where no consumers are being hurt. (besides of course having to wait a week to play Brawl, but I'm sure people who have this issue also have friends who got Brawl.)
      • purzzzell, on 03/10/2008, -2/+4there were 3 purple smudges to show that it was the same console (or case, at least)
      • doubledmateo, on 03/10/2008, -2/+7It also had the same serial number as the original. It was most definitely the same unit.
        • MacMan88, on 03/10/2008, -3/+2it's really easy to swap the serial number without destroying it.
          when my first PS2 got a "disc read error," i bought another PS2 at Best Buy, swapped the two serial # labels on the units, and returned the broken one, without ever destroying the label.
          the trick is to heat the label up before removing it - that way the adhesive comes off easier and the "VOID" pattern doesn't show up.
    • Fiola, on 03/10/2008, -4/+1eh, no, they didn't replace the signed 360, they wiped it clean before sending it back
    • doubledmateo, on 03/10/2008, -2/+1So explain to me why a company would spend the millions to replace hardware that isn't faulty?
    • RonWorkman, on 03/10/2008, -3/+3I hate people like you. I really do. If it wasnt "Defective" then why would they replace it? Can you honestly not grasp the concept of what a defect is? Are you not curious about why 1 disc, even though it had dual layer, is having issue and why the serial numbers all seem to add up with other launch consoles with the same drives?
  • senatebuddy, on 03/10/2008, -2/+19It's wrong to sell defective consoles, but I don't think there's been a release yet that has been completely free of bugs. Throughout the wonder years of my childhood, Nintendo has consistently given quality assistance for troubleshooting, even as far as replacing your system. It might just be their innocent appeal that's bought me in, but I think Nintendo's integrity and respect for consumers is A+
    • mickael1, on 03/10/2008, -7/+4A first party game not working on the console... seems like a big deal to me... I dont see how this is great
      • polymyxin, on 03/10/2008, -1/+11You can't program your way around a physical defect in the console. Being a first-party game is irrelevant.
    • Tahiri, on 03/10/2008, -6/+3", but I don't think there's been a release yet that has been completely free of bugs. "

      PS3
      • purzzzell, on 03/10/2008, -2/+3why do I seem to remember otherwise - like the launch editions being 5% dead out of the box or somethiing?

        anyone able to back me up on this, it's been like 18 mos. now, so I'm not sure
      • bumblefoot, on 03/10/2008, -2/+1with sonys track record for having the cd/dvd lens slip so it can't read disks unless you have the console at a funny angle, i wouldn't hold my breath about the ps3 being bug free
    • arcticblue, on 03/10/2008, -1/+1Nope. My 60GB PS3 bit the dust after 6 months. Go look at the PS3 forums on the Playstation website to see several others who have had problems. The most common of which seems to be the blu-ray drive completely failing during COD4
  • wannapiece, on 03/10/2008, -2/+9I had a buddy buy two copies and both didnt work on his wii, yet another friends smash bros game worked perfectly after a wii update
  • theclaw1, on 03/10/2008, -2/+5Burned Wii games aren't quite the same disc format as retail ones. Incredibly similar, but not exact. There may be minor differences between legit and bootleg SSBB copies which affect readability.

    Wii games are DVD-like, however not officially certified as "DVD" or referred to using that name.
  • YuriSakazaki, on 03/10/2008, -16/+9If this was Microsoft there'd be calls for Ballmer's head, but it seems most of Digg is GIVING Iwata head.

    Gotta love Digg bias.
    • iofthestorm, on 03/10/2008, -2/+8The difference is that Microsoft denied there was a RROD problem for months before admitting there was a problem, whereas Nintendo is fixing people's Wiis immediately.
      • purzzzell, on 03/10/2008, -2/+3I had to say this above to someone else that had said almost the exact same thing - M$ is doing the right thing w/360's NOW, b/c they have to compete with the level of service that Nintendo would offer ANYWAY.
    • bwishey, on 03/10/2008, -3/+2What are you talking about? Digg is pro-PS3 lately. Simply the fad of the month...
    • mparker7410, on 03/10/2008, -4/+3If this was Microsoft they'd being doing everything they could to stick it to the consumer.
      • doubledmateo, on 03/10/2008, -2/+4Yes, you're a friggin genius. Their evil plan is to make you unhappy, while Nintendo is all sunshine and happiness, instead of some equally uncaring faceless corporation.
  • 1b2a, on 03/10/2008, -2/+18Does Brawl load for a really long time between emissary cutscenes for anyone else?
    • doshindude, on 03/10/2008, -3/+9FMV=long loading times.
      see Playstation.
    • iofthestorm, on 03/10/2008, -0/+6Yeah, happens to me sometimes too, which is kind of scary but hopefully it's just the load time for the cutscene and not drive crapping out.
    • Evi1d33d, on 03/10/2008, -1/+9The cut scenes should be on the second layer (single layer rip crash on FMV) so it might be your lenses.
    • Acura666, on 03/10/2008, -0/+5Yea, also my Wii makes a buzzing sound while the game is running.
    • slaystench, on 03/10/2008, -1/+5What do you mean by "really long"? Mine takes 3-5 seconds.
  • lsumed, on 03/10/2008, -2/+4I've been getting network errors all day with Brawl. I'm able to spectate matches, but everytime I try to get in on a group match, I wait and wait and wait and wait - finally getting an error. Maybe it's my Wii or my network (I do have comcast...) . I don't know. But this is an awesome game. I'll figure out what's wrong later.
    • lsumed, on 03/10/2008, -1/+1Everything's working perfectly this morning. I think that since the game came out yesterday, so many people were probably trying to access the Nintendo Wi-Fi at the same time. Anyway, great game.
    • frygar, on 03/10/2008, -1/+1I think everyone and their brother is trying to get online right now and it's wrecking their servers. I was having the same problem all day yesterday, but later that night, I was able to get on for a few matches.
  • slamm71, on 03/10/2008, -13/+15I'm sorry, but this article is just bs. There are no facts to back it up, it's pure speculation. The author takes things out of context and makes things up for the sake of his little Nintendo conspiracy theory.

    For example, the official statement from Nintendo says "Nintendo has specialized cleaning equipment that can resolve this problem." The author then says "Wouldn't it be cheaper to ship out these magical cleaning discs to users instead of the high cost to the company, as well as the inconvenience they would be causing the user?" Who said anything about magical cleaning discs?

    Buried.
    • RonWorkman, on 03/10/2008, -5/+6No facts? Nintendo confirmed everything I said. I was only trying to point out that they didnt tell us the true reason. They have admitted to it. You are wrong. Plain and simple. This has nothing to do with fanfare or your specific Wii. It is an issue that does exist and that also happened in Japan at SSBB's launch. MOST of those consoles were not cleaned but replaced.
    • frygar, on 03/10/2008, -2/+1It's speculate reported as fact on Destructoid. That's reason enough to bury it.
  • sykotic, on 03/10/2008, -9/+4Why would they replace the systems? New wiis are extremely hard to mod. This "disk error" is just a ploy to get moddable wiis back to Nintendo and for the new wiis to circulate more.
  • The3rdjj, on 03/10/2008, -1/+1this could also be an update problem, I saw some people say that they got Brawl to work after the update, but for the people's Brawls don't work I didn't see them specify if they had a wifi connection. Or maybe I'm just blind.
  • Wingdom, on 03/10/2008, -6/+2"Replaced consoles were for the most part, older Wii's that came out at or around launch."

    I just got SSBB and have been playing it all day long, on a Wii that I bought on launch day, there goes that theory.
    • polymyxin, on 03/10/2008, -0/+7It says "for the most part."
      • selfdisplaced, on 03/10/2008, -7/+1Well some may say Bush ran the country well..."for the most part"
    • theratdotus, on 03/10/2008, -2/+1same here mang
    • doubledmateo, on 03/10/2008, -1/+4Yes, because it worked for your console you just disproved that ANY launch consoles are having issues. You should write Nintendo and tell them that yours is working and that it's a launch console. That way they can call off all this business, because there obviously isn't an issue.
    • RonWorkman, on 03/10/2008, -4/+3thank you guys for pointing this out. You are stupid Wingdom. At no point did I say every launch Wii will have issue. Look around on the internet. Tons of people are having issue and MOST of those with the issue have a launch Wii.
  • Pinkertinkle, on 03/10/2008, -3/+4More nutty conspiracy theories.
    • RonWorkman, on 03/10/2008, -1/+4that are happening to 100's of people if you would just search Google
    • DiscoJohn, on 03/10/2008, -2/+2You must be new here.
  • LastSight, on 03/10/2008, -2/+4shame
  • antiorblkflag9, on 03/10/2008, -6/+1The problem is a lie
    • purzzzell, on 03/10/2008, -1/+2congrats, you've summed up the article - now, can you provide another source to back up your bold statement?
    • uhhNo, on 03/10/2008, -2/+3problem = cake
  • TheDarkTrumpet, on 03/10/2008, -4/+6My only problem with this article is that it seems a little bias. If he's going to talk about a defect in the product, instead of trying to slant the table to make others believe what he's saying - maybe he should just present the facts, sources, what he knows, and leave the thoughts to the people who read his story. There's some good information there, I'm just saying he needs to just present the facts and reduce his slant on the article.
    • RonWorkman, on 03/10/2008, -2/+5My confirmationb was a rep at Nintendo Japan. What else do you need?
  • Acura666, on 03/10/2008, -1/+4Anyone else hear their Wii buzzing during game play?
  • corduroy, on 03/10/2008, -3/+2The guy is all over the place looking for a conspiracy. I suppose if you shoot into the air enough times, you might just hit a duck (btw, where's duck hunt?).

    Here's what I think. Per the press release ... "A very small percentage of Wii consoles may have trouble consistently reading data off this large capacity disc if there is some contamination on the lens of the disc drive."
    Wouldn't it be sensible to think that Wii drives that initially passed quality control, just under the maximum allowable error percentage; have an increased error percentage rate with dual layer discs and an increase in age?
  • faizal5k, on 03/10/2008, -1/+3Is SSBB the FIRST dual-layered Wii disc? Because if the problem is really only cleaning the lens, and Nintendo doesn't want you cleaning it yourself, then you would have to ship it to Nintendo every 2-3 months, because I'm sure that more dual-layered Wii games are coming out soon. What if newer dual-layred games don't play either? That would just cause mass havoc for Wii gamers.
    • faizal5k, on 03/10/2008, -1/+3whoops...I should have read the article first. It says basically the same thing I said in this paragraph:
      Third: If the lens was dirty, won't it just get dirty again? Does Nintendo have a magic cleaning solution that can now repel dust and smoke residue for life? Am I the only one that see's this? If this is the actual issue, it would mean that in the future, at some point, it may very likely occur again. This makes me assume that Nintendo plans on offering this for the lifetime of the product. That is great, right? Nintendo plans on fixing its problems over an over again at cost to the company and at an inconvenience to the fans. It makes perfect sense.
  • beyondu, on 03/10/2008, -0/+2Odd how Nintendo would have you send in a system just to be "cleaned". I'm guessing each system sent in will get a new DVD drive :)

    I'm also hearing about slow down issues with the game also and skipping video and music.
  • slashbot, on 03/10/2008, -5/+13Why are people making excuses for nintendo but slamming microsoft?
    • Mpwns, on 03/10/2008, -2/+1poor ps3 no one ever talks about that.
      • frygar, on 03/10/2008, -0/+3Yeah, Sony! Why can't you make a console that breaks down every two months? Same for you, Nintendo!
    • schwarzjms, on 03/10/2008, -4/+2Because Nintendo fixes their hardware problems, where Microsoft just keeps sending defective systems until the warranty is up. They sent me 3 defective, right out of the box from the repair shop, until they got the change to tell me "it'll cost ya" to fix it. I currently open my 360 by hitting it with a hammer, and that is no joke. It's nice that I get to take out my anger each time I open my system, and I'm sure eventually it'll break. Once it does I won't have to look at it anymore and I can sell my games because I'll be done with Microsoft as a gaming company. That was their choice by running out my warranty.
      • Remz02, on 03/10/2008, -2/+3You open your xbox with a hammer?

        Well, that's your problem right there!
    • frygar, on 03/10/2008, -4/+3Because MS replaces your RRoD console with and RRRoD console (the first "R" being for "refurbished.")
      Nintendo actually *fixes* the problem as opposed to prolonging it. That's why Microsoft is getting slammed, and rightfully so.
  • tomz17, on 03/10/2008, -1/+3I have to agree here. My guess is that this disc has exposed a flaw in a small percentage of Wii consoles out there. A dirty read head would affect all discs about equally. Just to throw something out there, for instance, the spherical correction on the head might be incorrect. This would cause inconsistent behavior reading dual layer discs. In any case, Nintendo knows about this, and some PR jock thought it would go over easier if they floated a "dirty disc" cover story to prevent "defective/broken Wii" headlines.
  • MasterChi, on 03/10/2008, -1/+2I'd like to see if Nintendo will still support this stance of sending it for free when someone buys SSBB from a bargain bin 3 years from now (of course considering Wii is still supported by Nintendo in 3 years which i am sure it will be).
    • saska, on 03/10/2008, -2/+2Considering the fact that I personally saw them root around in back of their customer service center for an old copy of an ORIGINAL GameBoy game, because the guy who came in with the non-working one had bought a bootleg off of eBay, I'm going to venture a guess that the answer to your question is yes.
  • jeremyjudkins, on 03/10/2008, -3/+7I had a disk read error too. If you don't have internet on your Wii, you might be able to fix it with an update like this:

    1)Turn on Wii (no disks in it)
    2)Go to disk channel (still no disks in)
    3)Put disk in (now there should be a disk in)
    4)It will say it will update your Wii
    5)It will restart and you will see the Brawl icon and it should now work. (If the problem was from lack of update).
    6)???
    7)Profit

    Its getting harder and harder to make a profit these days.
  • waitasec, on 03/10/2008, -8/+0I'd like to see someone analyze the lens cleaner dvd they send out. Will we find a firmware patch that runs while the lens cleaner does its magic? If this were the case they would have just added a routine on the front of SSBB to check firmware and update if necessary right? They already saw it happen in Japan so they had plenty of time to modify the SSBB rather than going through the added expense of sending a separate disk.
    • maduin, on 03/10/2008, -0/+5They don't send out a lens cleaner. You should try to be informed about the subject before making comments.
  • s7r1k3r, on 03/10/2008, -2/+3They want to replace all the old wiis which are moddable to the much harder to mod new ones.
  • BobbyMC, on 07/21/2008, -3/+1There were a batch of Wiis at launch which were "defective". They weren't formatted right or something and the WiFi features couldn't work. When I tried to fix mine myself by formatting the system memory, it worked to a degree... And by a degree I mean it merged my store account with someone else's and I could download all the games they bought and use their points. Nintendo caught on somehow and sent me a new console with a free Wiimote, and I only had to swap out wiis when it got here and send the old one back.

    I mention this specifically because it means that a "signifcant" number of launch Wiis were immediately returned and inevitably fixed being that the identified problem with them was relatively small. Given the facts there is no way to tell when this semi rare problem stopped occurring in production, and so there could be any number of Wiis released since then that were original models with a simple network fix.

    I think it's worth considering that perhaps even the people who claim to have bought Wiis long after launch actually have an original model, or more importantly a Wii with an original drive which seems to be the source of the problem when this context is considered. Like I said, I know that my problem occurred on day 1, but the same or similar non paperweighting bugs could have occurred in less frequent or even similar numbers since then, meaning that the distribution of Wiis which fail to load SSBB would only have stopped some unspecified time after Nintendo changed whatever they changed with the drives.

    Pretty much anyone could have an original drive, so I think it is something to point a finger at. That said, my Wii is still a very early model as I got it within days of picking up my preorder, so if it works because it has a better drive we know that Nintendo fixed that incredibly quick.
  • jdeuel, on 03/10/2008, -3/+2nothing to drive up page hits like a good ol accusation
    • RonWorkman, on 03/10/2008, -2/+4are you serious? this is real. I cant understand how your brain works.
  • hulez, on 03/10/2008, -5/+1Does it actually say "New character announced for brawl!" on the disk menu? or is this a joke? Wait.........i see what you did there.
    u just have a crappy wii that can't read disks, i suggest u get a warrenty on ur entire wii. The rest is a photoshop.
    • RonWorkman, on 03/10/2008, -1/+4OMG People like you should not be allowed on the internet. Unless this is a joke. In that case, phewwwww You had me. I couldnt imagine someone that dumb in real life.
    • Username314, on 03/12/2008, -0/+1I don't get it. Who's the new character?
  • evnglion, on 03/10/2008, -0/+2My Wii has had disc read errors before, but I don't even have SSB yet. Everytime it has happened, I end up having to turn off the console and try again. It almost seems like it has something to do with the way I put the disc in, but it also always works again after a try or two. I wanna get it fixed, but I don't know if I want to get a new unit...
    • YellowSnowDemon, on 03/10/2008, -0/+2Same thing happened to me. Mario Galaxy kicked my Wii's ass a few times, and SSB won't play at all. I copied everything to an SD card, and hopefully it'll be back before spring break.
  • thejadedmonkey, on 03/10/2008, -1/+1I got mine feb. of last year, and SSBB works fine...
  • NeonElixir, on 03/10/2008, -1/+5"New is always better than old." Riiiiight.
  • mgnesium, on 03/10/2008, -3/+4Yeah, a random BLOG writer has unconfirmed CONFIRMED REPORTS from a secret rep at NoA and NoJ that this problem is actually TWO unrelated problems that happen to effect the same game.
    I'll believe that there may be people who smoke or have particularly dusty rooms or bad Wii placement that have gotten some grime on their lens rendering them unable to read a dual-layer disc. Nintendo's said to avoid those things specifically because of the chance of that happening. But now you say there's a mysterious hardware defect that has existed from launch but caused zero problems until one game came out over a year later? Okay..
    This is just bad reporting. At one point he blames the problem on dirty discs, not dirty disc-reading lasers, and reasons that a slot-loading disc drive should "wipe the discs clean". Then he asks, "Won't they just get dirty again?" Hrm.. if smoking around my Wii was the likely cause of this, maybe I should.. stop smoking around my Wii? Turn the power off and put a bag over it?
    Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm going to violate my warranty by jamming a pipe cleaner into the disc slot of my launch-day Wii in an attempt to clean this laser, instead of sending it off to Nintendo and letting the professionals handle it.
    • namelessted, on 03/11/2008, -0/+1do you even have a ***** clue what the ***** you are ***** talking about you stupid little *****?
  • SkinnerIJA, on 03/10/2008, -2/+4Thank you. You nerds deserve this.
  • abhinavkumar, on 03/10/2008, -4/+1You know whats a lie? The cake. Thats a bad lie. I want a wii cake now.
  • Mpwns, on 03/10/2008, -0/+5lol all nintendo is gonna do is blow in them untill the game works.


    so get on your knees and blow your wii
  • wasanasan, on 03/10/2008, -5/+3destructoid is obviously bias-toid
    their site is filled with 360 fanboys
    • Remz02, on 03/10/2008, -1/+4hell fecking yeah! someone needs to balance out the constant nintendo orgy spreadin across the globe!
  • sevenalive, on 03/10/2008, -1/+5This article is filled with grammar and spelling mistakes, lol look at benifit, its benefit! This story has no facts or sources, how did this make it to the FP?
  • Zippo, on 03/10/2008, -2/+1Well, I for one, have had zero issues with Brawl. Played it for nearly 9 hours with a friend yesterday and loved every second.
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