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80 Comments
- twtmc, on 10/12/2007, -2/+54http://www.duggmirror.com/
Can someone ban mikeshow please? - dvflameartist, on 10/12/2007, -0/+37Direct Link to side-by-side comparison: http://pix.blakespot.com/view/computers/screenshots/SM64_N64vsWii/
- ahawks, on 10/12/2007, -1/+27Bummer that the pics, already down, are on a secondary page and so they aren't in the duggmirror.
- BasouKazuma, on 10/12/2007, -0/+20The secondary page should've been submitted to digg. Then we'd have a mirror. Anyone save the pics b4 it went down?
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -6/+22This combined with the news of Nintendo adding online functionality to NES and SNES games, maybe even all systems, is what we like to call a "Killer App"
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -4/+17no just last week they changed that stance
http://digg.com/gaming_news/Virtual_Console_To_Start_Offering_Upgrades_Mario_Kart_ONLINE - Wootery, on 10/12/2007, -1/+13A modern PC can emulate Mario 64 at 1280x1024 with 16x anti-aliasing and 8x anisotropic-filtering, but it's not on a console.
Xbox 1 can emulate it, albeit at lower quality. - daridave, on 10/12/2007, -1/+13Project64 doesn't emulate it 100% correctly. Some effects (such as transparancy) are not 100% right. Wii's emulation is top notch, not only for the n64 but also the NES.
I was surprised at how Zelda, running on my PC and on Wii are very different (on the same screen). So much that now, I actually think I WILL spend on the VC... - zandr88, on 10/12/2007, -3/+14http://abcnews.com.com/Super_Mario_64_Wii/4535-9993_7-32159770-1.html?tag=nav for SS from the wii
http://www.gamerankings.com/htmlpagesscreens/198848.asp?screenid=1 SS from the N64.
No real side by side comparison but you get the point - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -2/+12I wish Diggmirror would mirror the content we actually want to see, not the pages talking about the content we want to see. This could probably be done easialy by mirroring the links people write in the comment pages.
I also wish people would stop linking to pages talking about what we want to see and just link directly to the goods. - trogdor282, on 10/12/2007, -0/+10@technopope
You don't understand NTSC. There's no discrete pixel, just a continuous scan line. The wii could output at 100000x480 or 10x480 and an analog tv could show either one. 640x480 just happens to be the sweet spot where the pixels are square. - SkippyDoorknob, on 10/12/2007, -0/+10They just said it's theoretically possible to update existing games - not that they will definitely do it (and that the update would add online functionality).
- iluvatar, on 10/12/2007, -0/+10while it's impossible to tell with those comparison shots the article offers, it's still believable. Nintendo did the same thing with Ocarina of Time for Gamecube.
- panzerfinder15, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8bytecellar.com...appropriate name for a site that went down instantly after hitting the frontpage
- DigitalDud, on 10/12/2007, -2/+10Sounds more like the placebo effect.
- Langford, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6Out of curiosity, has anyone witnessed Mario Sunshine on the Wii yet? No reason to expect it to be any different, but I am curious to hear how well Gamecube backwards compatibility is working out.
- streetstealth, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6If Nintendo wants to persuade people to stay away from ROMs and buy through Virtual Console... I can hardly imagine any better way than adding online multiplayer to some of the catalog!
- blakespot, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6Hey, I'm a working man. Just use the 'Next' links to move through the gallery, it's the best way to feel the difference.
- lukas88, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7I saw no evidence that they were a higher resolution on the wii pics. The lack of jagged edges does not necessarily mean a higher resolution. It could just mean there is 2x, 4x, or 8x anti-aliasing. A higher resolution would show more detail in textures, which it clearly does not.
If you simply have less jagged edges, it is because there is anti-aliasing involved. Not higher resolution. They wouldn't have to change anything about the game's graphics/software to do that, it can all be done via hardware. - Technopope, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5@Arkz
In my above comment claiming there is no 852x480 resolution, I was totally wrong. There *is* such a resolution but is doesn't fall into any NTSC standard, as it is considered EDTV (Enhanced Definition TV). EDTV is a digital TV subset of HDTV and is part of the 480p standard. 480p can be 702x480, 720x480 or 852x480. I haven't been able to find out what Wii's 480p resolution is, as my component cable arrives later. Again,my apologies Arkz, you might be correct.
@trogdor282
I understand NTSC perfectly.
: There's no discrete pixel, just a continuous scan line.
True, but a continuous scan line that has to be modulated and is constrained by the bandwidth of the video signal. When that scan line scans 525 lines 29.97 times a second (the NTSC standard) there is a fixed amount of time that scan line has to paint its dots horizontally. The *bandwidth* of that video signal determines the horizontal resolution, and roughly equates to about 79 horizontal dots for each Mhz of bandwidth. The broadcast standard for US NTSC is about 4.2 Mhz for the video portion.
:The wii could output at 100000x480 or 10x480 and an analog tv could show either one.
Yes, it could, and as long as your analog TV could process a video signal with a bandwidth of of over 1200 Mhz, you could see that resolution. Most are limited to about 5 Mhz. A 1080i HDTV needs to process a 37 Mhz signal for a perfect picture.
Most video today is sourced digitally and there are resolution standards to conform to, typically 702x480 or 720x480 for 4:3, and 1280x720 or 1920x1080 for 16:9. However, as I stated above, there *is* also an 852x480, which I was wrong about. I don't know if the Wii outputs this, however. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -8/+11Too bad that the VC games are stretched on widescreen TV's, what's up with that Nintendo?
- everfalling, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4duggmirror mirror's the site, but not the gallery it links to. *****...
- SPThom, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3I'm gonna have to take the middle ground here: the quality of rendered graphics is certainly improved on the Wii, BUT there's no reason to believe Nintendo did anything special.
By "rendered graphics", I mean anything in 3D: character models, environment, etc. It just makes sense that these would be improved, though... being vector graphics, it's all math. Plug the math into a better graphics processor, and it's going to make for better looking images.
Notice that the bitmapped sprites on the HUD don't show any improvement. That's because there's no math there... it's all pixels.
But in order to improve that, they'd basically need to redo ALL sprites in a game. The demand for Anti-Aliasing is an oversimplified approach--sure, they could blur the edges on some sprites, but what if other sprites need to be pixel-precise? There's no way for them to have anticipate which games and sprites are supposed to be very detailed (think overhead maps) and which can just be polished and fuzzied.
Anyhow, I think they did a great job. I can't wait to get Ocarina of Time on this. - danmanx, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Well, even though I can't see the pics, I'll definitely take the word of these other Digg members. It's so great to hear Nintendo taking care of their games for the next gen platform!
- Tollboi, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2honestly if you saw no difference you should look for more than 5 minutes especially at the details further off in the distance. If you still can not see any difference I have a modded PS3 that I put in a PS2 case that I can sell you real cheap.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3Link isn't working for me. Damn you Digg!
- xeaxes, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3People are saying that GC games look better on the Wii. Maybe some better color filtering, or lighting effects from the Hollywood GPU?
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3@DigitalDud
EDIT: Xeaxes beat me to it.
But yeah a new GPU can make a huge difference in quality of video. - Conquerist, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2http://www.emutalk.net/high-resolution-textures-projects/ this, 1964, and Rice Video (all open source) provide significantly better quality than the Wii version.
- zetsurin, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Which one was which?
- raabco, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4wow
I guess there's a lot of NES tennis fans on here! - mrlost117, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2thank you for goin on the hunt long enough to find this.
IMO the game looks clearer, but its so jaggedy I really wouldnt call it better, more of a trade off. I dunno though maybe Im wrong *shrug - courtarro, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2I appreciate the links, but those screenshots from the original SM64 are probably not good for comparison since it looks like they're either photos of a television showing the game, or caps taken over a crummy interface like composite or RF video. The original game definitely looked better than those in that link, on the right equipment.
- blakespot, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2While the comparison shots are admittedly crude, I think the difference can be clearly seen, espcially in the Castle pictures. There's much less "sparkle" artifacting when slowly panning across that scene on the Wii vs. N64, as well.
And it can't be simple AA. The N64 version actually uses AA, and no AA at the original 320x240 would look that smooth, regardless of the algorithm used.
I kinda wish Nintendo had added the improved textures of SM64DS to this high-res rendering. That would have made for the ultimate version, indeed. - DigitalDud, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Yeah well that would explain why you see texture seams all over.
- Wisgary, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Look at the sprites for the castle windows. They look awesome on the Wii.
- DarkStalker, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Maybe you need to read that article, because there is no confirmation of ANYTHING there.
- lukas88, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1He makes a really good point, I have made n64 games look better than that on emulators, which proves (at least to me) that nintendo didn't necessarily change the software to achieve the better graphics. Its all about the better hardware interpreting the graphics.
- Gerz1219, on 10/12/2007, -4/+5UltraHLE did the same thing back in 1998. Frankly, if Nintendo hadn't been able to beat the performance of an 8 year old illegal emulator (which ran on my P2 400 if I recall correctly), they don't deserve to stay in business. I'd have been really impressed if they updated some of the textures or added new levels -- or just added something of value to justify the $10 pure-profit price tag and get me to stop playing it on my HTPC.
- blakespot, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Grumbel,
SM64 on the Nintendo 64 is a 320x240 game. It is non interlaced, 240i, like old SNES games, etc. The N64 is capable of 640x480 and that mode is used in a small % of games, but SM64 is without doubt 320x240. On the Wii, however, it is being rendered at 640x480. - Chaosteil, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3It looks like simple anti-aliasing to me... But still nice to see some improvements for one of my favorite games of all time :)
- gk128, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3It's a 10 year old game now. Sure it's not good looking, but it looks a lot better then 1996 PS1 3D games if you looked at them side by side today.
- TheTankengine, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2If he would have taken the pics with comonent cables on the Wii, maybe this would be something worth looking at.
I can't see them right now (way to go on submitting the BLOG and not what we actually care about), but I'm gonna go ahead and assume the difference isn't that drastic. He is talking about how great it looks in 480p, yet he can't see it in 480p. - DelMonte, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1The thing is that Nintendo stated before that they wouldn't improve things like framerate and resolution of VC games. This shows that it's not the case and that they did improve the resolution on games like Super Mario 64. This is what makes it news, and this is what makes it interesting to Wii owners (and future owners).
Sure there's nothing technically impressive about this, but now we know that some games will be improved on the VC compared to them running on the original console. - Arkz, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1@ Technopope
I know normal widescreen is really a 4:3 picture horizontally compressed then stretched, but I read that Nintendo themselves said Wii games were rendered in 852x480, to be outputted in 480p... which sorta confused me seen as tho 480p isnt wider than 720 pixels - hamstereater, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3oh bug off
- Josuajosua, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2I've tried Mario Sunshine on the Wii and as far as I can say, it's looking slightly better. Maybe it's placebo, maybe not, but I should definitely try a direct comparison of the 2 console. Which mean I need to plug back my gc.... nope, note this week though.
One negative point! It still uses the GC memory card, you can't save your game on the Wii drive. I'm sad about that.
-Josua - Suspected, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Looks great! I was considering replaying this game on the Wii, but now that I know the video quality is better, I will definitely purchase it! ^_^
- megashaun, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2RE4 seems to have better detail for things off in the distance when played on the Wii. Although admittedly I didn't have component cables for my 'Cube, so it could just be that.
- MrObjectional, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1Damn straight. I've got in on the E-Reader.
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