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- Drood, on 10/12/2007, -1/+25Which is exactly why this is ridiculous. Toca Race Driver 3 was pirated and on the net on February 18th. According to GameFAQ's it wasn't even released until the 24th. So their nice protected Starforce title was cracked and online a whole SIX DAYS before it was even it stores. And Starforce extorted how much money to "protect" this game? What amazes me is in the race sim community, in which I'm quite active, a lot of people PRAISE Starforce for "stopping piracy". They're prepared to give up their righths, their systems, so long as it hamstrings those nasty pirates. (Which as evidenced above, it clearly doesn't.)
I know a few people who can't get the pirated version working, but the same has always been true of any cracked software. (As for me, I got the PS2 version instead.) Starforce does nothing but trojan users systems. It quite clearly doesn't stop piracy. You only have to read NForce to see that. I've got a Dell system here that was permanently damaged thanks to Starforce. I boycott all Starforce protected titles, but this install came in on a FREE game put out by a developer. (I forget who now.) It was a Christmas themed free game and even that had Starforce on it. Any company that uses Starforce is, IMO, evil. They know the problems it causes. It doesn't stop piracy. I think they just want to punish their users. I mean look at Ubisoft. You bitch about Starforce on their message boards and you're banned and branded as a hacker. (Plus let's not forget Starforce's drivers run at ring 0, and leave you exposed to god knows what vulnerabilities, and also use undocumented API calls in Windows, which theoretically means if Microsoft decided to close them, all your Starforced software would be DOA.
As for Stardock, I'd been considering picking up Gal Civ II anyway. After reading about all this, and how they actually treat the consumer as a friend rather than a criminal, I went out and picked the game up to reward a company that, purely for the way they treat the consumer, deserve the money.
Starforce is an insidiously evil company, and I wouldn't be at all surprised if they themselves created the torrent file they linked too, in a mafiaesque "It'd be a real shame if you didn't buy our insurance and you're nice little software title got pirated." - FiZi, on 10/12/2007, -1/+15I think I speak for a lot of people when I say "***** starforce".
That copy protection might work and presently be virtually un-crackable but it is a huge pain in the ass for those who use it. I have Daemon tools installed, why? So I can make mini-images of my games so I don't need to keep the damn CD/DVD in the drive when I want to play. I can just go to my little directory of mini-images and mount one and play. Is this illegal? Probably since it makes sense and is a convenience to me.
Since when do you (a software company) have the right to charge me 70 bucks (Canadian) for a game and then tell me what to uninstall from my system before you will let me play your game. When you need to include in your games help file a section about what to do when your game won't launch or crashes randomly because of copy protection it's a good sign something is wrong (ala Tiger Woods 2006). - V1ncent, on 10/12/2007, -0/+14We haven't seen the last of Star Force's blunders by far. Waiting for the next one...
- zimm, on 10/12/2007, -1/+14Well he's wrong. But thats ok.
I've pirated quite a few games and then bought them. Its the ultimate try before you buy. Demos dont cut it.
And in some cases i've continued to use the pirate copy after buying one. Since the pirated copy has the copy protection removed that causes lockups, crashes and general eating of resources.
The key is it has to be a GOOD game. And so many fall short of that anymore. Theres damm few games i've spent days playing without paying for it.
But a whole ton of games i've pirated, found out they suck bad, vow to never buy it. And delete it.
Its bad when your game isnt even WORTH stealing... but they always blame piracy first.. and never consider that their game just SUCKS. - topher1078, on 10/12/2007, -1/+11Here's a link to an interview with Brad Wardell, the CEO of Stardock.
http://www.gamespot.com/news/6145864.html
Some interesting points are that he feels people who pirate games won't buy them anyways, so there's no point in addressing those. Stardock instead tries not to punish those who might lose a CD or something simple like that, creating a better and more inviting experience for those who do buy the game, which is how the system should work out anyways. - definiteform, on 10/12/2007, -0/+10Apparently they do not like any emails that are against DRMs. I sent an email to them about 2 months ago and all I got back was something along the lines of "you're an idiot." Their company is run by children. Reading this story only backs up my assumption.
In Mother Russia, Starforce ***** you. - Lumiras, on 10/12/2007, -0/+10They're still complete idiots for posting the torrent links in the first place. This shows that they're not even in favor of the development community and they're not content with other companies doing what they want with the software they developed.
They saw that the game was doing very well (incredibly well for an indie game), and they simply couldn't be happy with it. So, they resorted to childish tactics just because they wanted to fire a shot across the bow to all the other companies who don't want to use their restrictive DRM.
I think that Stardock's "DRM scheme" is a great idea: extra content and patches. Imagine that, the company is actually giving you extra things for buying the game instead of taking features away. If you look at the patch history for the game, they've released a new, pretty major patch for the game every week since it has been on shelves. This isn't simply fixing game crashing bugs, but it also adds little extra things to enhance the gameplay. Also it should be noted that almost all the new features implemented in the patches are directly inspired by community input from the forums
Stardock is my new favorite developer :) - Drood, on 10/12/2007, -0/+9Russian law = oxymoron
- zimm, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8you cant sue them..
russians..
cant do squat to them.. and they know it.
or that mp3 site would be long gone.... - portilaj, on 10/12/2007, -1/+9I just bought GalCivII last night. Without the press on this fiasco the game would have flown completely under my radar.
Stardock must be loving this. It's great to see a company taking the high road and really getting rewarded. Hopefully the industry has it's eyes open.
Great game, btw. You can buy it online, download it immediatly AND they'll ship you the CD. Very cool. - AeroSquid, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8what i can do is boycott starforce. any game that uses starforce is warez only for me, i won't spend my money helping a company like that survive.
- Mesach, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7"Its bad when your game isnt even WORTH stealing... but they always blame piracy first.. and never consider that their game just SUCKS."
You said exactly what I say about the Movie industry:
Its bad when your MOVIE isnt even WORTH stealing... but they always blame piracy first.. and never consider that their MOVIE just SUCKS. - sundancekid503, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7*Everyone* should boycott any software that uses Starforce.
Stardock is one company I really respect and this is just ridiculous. - thegreatsam, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7It would have to have violated a russian law in order to sue them.
- fitzdingus, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6just bought GalCiv to show my appreciation to Stardock.
Keep up the good work, guys! - elnerdo, on 10/12/2007, -3/+8In Soviet Russia, Law disobey YOU!
- loker269, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5they are idiots.....they post links to torrents...they have employees who run around like morons asking for magazine scans! but no no no they are there to protect the copyright holders they are there last defense! bah these people are so hypocrytical....
- TTheSpook, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4lol great comic. oh yeah and ***** starforce
- jedi55555, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4From hearing Brad speak about this before he does acknowledge that there are people that will pirate the software and then buy it. I believe his point was that most people who pirate software are not doing it as a substitution of paying for it. Most people do not see a game in the sote and say "Hey I got $50 in my pocket and I would love to have that game but I will just pirate it.". If it is a game you really want and you want it now you will spend that $50.
- zimm, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4i was thinking about the wonderful potential, piece of crap called dungeon lords actually...
released as alpha... slow rounds of patches for current customers. many problems. horrible company behind it all.. got so bad the community made their own patch out of the german version after waiting months for the english one.. last patch was turned into "collectors edition" and sold for extra. everyone who bought the first version got screwed. and wont ever get the final patch unless they pony up another $50.
and the game STILL isn't finished.
I should have pirated that one... dungeon in the title got me... lost $50. but on the upside i wont ever buy anything dream catcher interactive has a hand in ever again. - alai, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5Apology = PR.
- Lumiras, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Very, very true. But, if you have played Gal Civ 2, I think you'd agree that the game is far from incomplete
- whiskeyclone, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4www.penny-arcade.com/comic
- queondatavo, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Starforce doesn't do anything to stop piracy. I know, I sometimes download games... let me explain.
Some of you may not agree with this, but I usually download a game to try it before I buy it. The reason for this is that I am a college student, and if I spend 40 dollars on a game that means I will eat tuna for the next 8 days. So that is my reason.
Moving on to piracy itself. I applaud stardock for not putting any anti-piracy systems on Galactic Civilizations 2. Putting these systems on games only alienates the users who actually bought the game. Lost your cd-key? sorry, you can't play the game anymore. Tired of hearing your cd rom spinning like crazy? Oh, sorry, you need to hear that in order to play the game. Stardock realized this, and also realized that pirates have it more comfortable than legal users. No need to put the cd in the drive, just emulate the cd. No serial? no problem. Starforce? When has that stopped me?
Anyways. I liked GalCiv2 and bought it. Again, I congratulate Stardock for being such a good company and hope that other companies will do the same. - Nowheredan, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5StarForce has an office in San Francisco, and thus are vulnerable to US lawsuits.
However, I think this whole incident was kind of a misunderstanding. I don't think StarForce intended to encourage people to pirate Gal Civ 2, but were merely trying to prove their point that without copy protection, games are pirated more readily. True, 99% of them end up being pirated regardless of StarForce protection, but actually I think the more recent iterations have been pretty successful in hampering pirates, even though it totally screws over legitimate buyers in the process.
*Disclaimer: I hate DRM. It annoys the hell out of me. - malliemcg, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3I am impressed how stardock view their games sales and implement their copy protection.
I think I'll investigate a game I would probably not have heard of or bothered with and purchase it if it looks interesting (looking for demo now - i suppose i could hit a torrent site - but they (stardock) are not treating me like a criminal (unlike companies who use starforce's protection) so I'd rather do right by them)!
M - Laton, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5Dig that comment if you think it makes a contribution to the conversation; that's what the mod system is for. Leave a comment if you want the world to know how you feel.
- thepotoo, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3starforce. They are a russian DRM maker who posted a bunch of torrents of a Stardock game to promote DRM.
- diecastbeatdown, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4well put drood. i'm 100% of the same mindset and also an avid racer fan. toca is an amazing series and everytime i've been at E3 it has been one of my top priorities to visit the people at codemasters - for mcrae as well. gal civ 2 is a great game and the developers are some of the nicest i have had the pleasure to talk wtih. much of their software is useful and that have come up with some very innovative technologies.
- Jugalator, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5"or that mp3 site would be long gone.... "
Allofmp3.com has to do with Russian phonography and radio laws.
What on earth does that have to do with a company posting a torrent link?
Posting indirect links to warez is probably as a grey area there as in most parts of the world.
Is replies like these due to readers smoking pot while reading digg or something? - OBKenobi, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2[quote]even though i hate starforce (not down with low level drivers being installed on my system for drm reasons), their protection really is unrivaled.[/quote]
Sure it's unrivaled, because they are using illegal, unstable methods to accomplish what they do. No one is complaining about copy-protection that is safe and doesn't pose any serious risk to your computer.
In any case, Starforce can be cracked and/or bypassed using several techniques. For all the problems it causes, it doesn't really work as advertized. Either Starforce change their strong-arm approach, or they should get out of the business. - jron, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2in addition, it wouldn't surprise me one bit if members of the team still cracked non starforce protections, there are only a handfull of people with the ability to actually crack their protection (not talking about clonecd rips).
- Tkkt, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Here's a link that will work tommorow:
http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2006/03/15 - Alchemeron, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2When an anti-piracy company advertises the distribution of illegal content, it says they're drumming up business and can't be trusted. This is no better than a protection racket. "If you use our software, then stuff like this doesn't have to happen".
- puppitmastr, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2I've been a Stardock customer for a few years, using their Object Desktop suite. I have to say that Brad and his company have "discovered" what most companies have lost sight of these days: that treating customers with a little respect, and offering a solid product will keep those customers coming back. I'm not much of a gamer, but I might have to try our GalCiv2 after all this.
- clevershark, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3Starforce -- bringing Russian mafia methods to DRM marketing. That sounds catchy!
- evoleddy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2How are we supposed to trust a company like that..... Actually why would any software company trust them after actions like that. Stardock has the right attitude towards it all. I know I'm getting more and more put off by all of these "anti-piracy" methods. Its not like games are cheaper than they were anyway.
- wtfdan, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2If nothing else, I would think that this would discourage game publishers from seeking out copy protection from a company like Starforce. Their blunder is definitely a good thing for the consumer.
- slemmons, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3Relevant quote:
GS: Why did Stardock opt not to use traditional industry-accepted forms of copy protection?
BW: It's only industry-accepted in the PC game industry--the industry that people are regularly saying is "doomed." Most of our business is in the application software market (the market that no one argues is "doomed"), and such copy protection measures are not used. I don't have to keep my Adobe Photoshop CD in the drive to use it.
This guy is awesome. He's saying what's been obvious for years, but everyone else has been afraid to say. I've already bought the game, and it's awesome. Highly recommended to anybody who likes Turn Based Strategy. So far i'm having more fun with this than I did with either of the most recent Civilization games (although that's partly because I prefer the sci-fi setting).
Also, I completely agree with him that pirates usually wouldn't buy the game anyway. There are a few people who pirate the game as an extended demo, but these people are a tiny minority.
Most pirates are kids who can't afford to buy the game anyway. If they can't get a crack to work one day, they're not going to jump up and go buy it, they're going to either wait a few weeks for a working crack, or just browse for another game that works for him.
All too often pirates offer better customer service than publishers do to their legitimate customers. - gnatinator, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3Starforce should be bitchslapped so far up for this, what a bunch of asses
- Arkitan, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2"Its bad when your game isnt even WORTH stealing... but they always blame piracy first.. and never consider that their game just SUCKS."
You win the thread! - scotus, on 10/12/2007, -5/+6stardock should have sued starforce's asses for inducing copyright infringement a la grokster. would have served starforce right.
- dclowd9901, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3I like Starforce. They make it easier to hate the godless game publishing houses.
Seriously, though, if there were no market to capitolize on the idiocy of companies like EA, Ubisoft, etc., Starforce and its relatives wouldn't exist. Simple as that. Supply and demand. As soon as greedy publishers, much like their music and movie brethren wise up to what's really happening out there, the better it will be for the consumer.
And I like Stardock's CEO's point: the people who pirate the game would've never bought it anyway. I think that's absolutely true. So, if you're going to lose the sale either way, might as well not screw the paying customer. - paul2, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3Starforce? This is reality calling. Have you got a clue?
- jron, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2I can't say I am surprised, it has long been recognized that starforce was once a group of software crackers with INSANE know how in the art of reverse engineering,
- hotdrop, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3Its not that hard to boycot starforce since most games that feel they need starfore protection suck any way
- FiZi, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2I mean crackable in the traditional way, not bypassable by physically changing your hardware configuration.
- zimm, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3a good way to do it.
so long as they dont intentionally release an unfinished game just so this scheme works. - erchamion92, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0Starforce and ***** my arse!!!
Why is everyone pulling their damn IDE cables? There's a much easier way to resolve the issue which is plainly obvious and I'm amazed I can't find a reference to it anywhere else on the web despite hours of searching.
I just want to make sure it works on a couple of differently specced machines and I will post results here. - johnnylin, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0as opposed to the U.S.... where you ***** starforce???
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