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65 Comments
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -30/+58burn sony burn!
- Mizark, on 10/12/2007, -4/+19They will have to make a minor change to the internal workings of the Dualshock controller
- Giggy, on 10/12/2007, -13/+28Greed? This is about credit where it's due. If Sony ***** up it's their own damn fault.
- tacom8, on 10/12/2007, -2/+12millions of chicks would agree
- TheNik, on 10/12/2007, -5/+15So - what will be the fate of the PS3 if Sony loses the case completely?
- VSKBadCRC, on 10/12/2007, -3/+12I stopped feeling sorry for Sony a long time ago. Their DRM fiasco really ***** over a lot of their customers, ironic that in order to "stop piracy" they ***** over the customers who were actuall buying the music... Way to go Sony PR machine.
But yes, this is so so so very ironic... Sony's been one of the big ones fighting for DRM on all their software and music, now they're the ones caught with their hands in someone elses cookie jar steeling intellectual property. Another bold move by Sony to show us just how hipicritical this company can be. Do as I say, not as I do? Blow me Sony.
Have fun paying Immersion for your crimes. - cheddar, on 10/12/2007, -9/+16I find all the Sony bashing funny and pathetic at the same time. At first Microsoft was the evil corporation when they entered the console arena. People claiming they had no business in this industry. Now you have people wanting the death of Sony for a mistake (though a huge one) their other division made. To me people play on either side of the fence. If they love Microsoft, they hate Sony and vice versa. It's like the Sony fiasco has ushered in a new era of fanboyism.
Not to mention the fact that I'm sure half these Sony must die people will be total hypocrites should the PS3 be successful. - Arramol, on 10/12/2007, -2/+8I completely agree. They're only concerned with the moral high ground when it can be used to their financial benefit. And you're right to still be angry about the XCP ordeal. The public tends to have far too short of a memory. They haven't changed their act at all.
- zweben, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7It was still designed with Dual Shock technology (The rumble feature)
- deut, on 10/12/2007, -4/+9You know, I'm still pissed about that XCP fiasco last year. As far as I'm concerned, SONY can....
It's ironic isn't it that they steal (or "pirate" whichever way you look at it) someone elses IP for their gain and yet preach to us about the consumer stealing their IP when we download stuff. Classic case of "do as I do..." - silverSurfer84, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5XCP is not just one mistake. It is one mistake they were caught making. Who knows what other shady things they continue to do but havent been caught yet.
- crythias, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5I agree. It's a patent for an otherwise poorly designed centrifuge.
- saon, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6How can you patent something like that? Surely there is prior art somewhere. Using unbalanced weights on a motor isn't exactly a novel concept.
- FishyJoe, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4People keep saying that the rootkit thing was the fault of just one division, BUT that division has a history of influencing the rest of the company. Mini-disc, mp3 walkmans, PSP, umd, blu-ray are all heavily influenced by that division. All of these products have had such strict anti-piracy measures that many people were unwilling to buy them. So I think it's perfectly fair to judge the entirety of Sony based on the misdeeds of this one division.
- SenyorDrew, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5I'm not a big fan of either Microsoft or Sony, but I would argue that Microsoft's in-house games are as good as Sony's, if not a bit better.
If you think the 3rd party titles are *****, that's not the fault of either console manufacturer. - Dwebtron, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5it has
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -4/+7Wow the fanboys are out in force. It's unfortunate that hatred for Sony will replace outrage at the poor quality of the patent system, and the damage patent trolls like Immersion do by costing companies million in patent litigation and high licensing costs. 5% of annual revenues is more than little high for what amounts to putting a vibrator in a joystick. Switching a motor on and off programaticly is nothing new.
I for one have snipped the motor leads in all my controls because the vibration is an annoyance more than anything else. - Knoton, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5At this point we actually don't know that it will be based on dualshock tech.
- atf487, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2dragoonkain:
So what if Sony goes down. Do you honestly think that all the RPG developers will say "OMG, our system is done. There will be nothing else from us." and close down?
They'll just switch systems. Despite Sony's great third party support, it's first party games are the weakest of the three major companies, and it'd personally be the easiest game console manufacturer to lose. - chembro84, on 10/12/2007, -4/+6I lost respect for Sony when working at Gamestop I started noticing that anyone who had a PS2 and played it more than rarely had to replace 1, 2, even 3 times.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3i hope they do go broke
- affableamerican, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2Wow. I've been reading about this story all day, and I come to Digg at the end of the day to see what y'all have to say about it. This place is the worst when it comes to fanboyism. And I'm probably the 50th person in this thread to have bemoaned it.
What I gather from reading various stories and comments is that Immersion has a legitimate case (their IP here is much more specific than simply making something jiggle by spinning an unbalanced weight around). Immersion didn't name Nintendo in the suit because their method was not specifically covered under Immersion's reasonably specific patent -- MS's and Sony's method *was*. That alone should suggest that this is not a frivolous case from Immersion. Furthermore, given that the courts continue to uphold this case (this case was brought up in 2002 I believe), that's even more reason to accept that this is not frivolous. Don't immediately jump to that conclusion.
Secondly, MS was just as guilty as Sony. But then MS settled out of court (for around 27mil), which included a stake in Immersion. That is, they are invested in Immersion. In hindsight, this was a drastically better strategy than Sony's, given that Sony now is facing a big payout as well as potentially stopping sales of the Dualshock and games using the dualshock IP. I believe this was the ruling about a year ago, but during Sony's appeal, they were allowed to continue with sales. Frankly, I'm nowhere near knowledgeable about law, and I don't know if Sony can continue to appeal or if there is any possibility that they will have to stop these sales (in the US). Will be very interesting if this ends up being the case, but I can't imagine it will come to that.
My general take on this is that both MS and Sony did what big corporations do. Crap on smaller companies. MS (again, in hindsight) appears to have taken the best approach, even though I still find the way both companies dealt with Immersion's IP to be morally reprehensible (although fairly commonplace). Sony, on the other hand, is coming off as recklessly arrogant, and they are paying for it. - matt.rubin, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1i think its another person trying to get money from big comapnys
- Dgen_X, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1the patent isn't just "force feedback for a game" it covers much more than that
and yes...the N64 rumble pack outdates the Dualshock - slapout, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2And you thought the PS3 was going to be expensive before :-)
- killerofkiller, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2***** Sony haters... i mean Seriously, any comment on this article that has a positive comment about Sony has negative diggs. Stop bashing the PS3.. if the PS3 flops then oh well you still have ur 360... if it does good then M$ will be forced to lower prices.. it is a win-win situation for u M$ fanboys. I just think that you people cant Handel a little competition.. just like M$ ' a two bit company that can't stand 1 bit of competition'
Seriously, no one is forcing you to buy the system
as said before 'Not to mention the fact that I'm sure half these Sony must die people will be total hypocrites should the PS3 be successful.' - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Uhm, you are talking about DRM and music. What does this have to do with the Dual Shock controller?
Just another chance to bash whatever company everyone else do not like? - cyrix, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2Why do so many people conveniently forget that the Xbox used the same technology, or a variant, in their controllers. They too had to pay out to the company.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Because it's Microsoft and you're on digg.com...
- sahaskatta, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1this is pretty bad news for sony. but as long as they get the PS3 pushed out by spring ill have no complains what so ever! (if they plan a 2007 release, down with sony. btw i own a psp and ps2)
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http://www.skattertech.com - graywolf323, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1strange if their patents are from after Sony introduced the DualShock controller (back in 1999 I believe with Ape Escape on the PS1)
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1affableamerican, you don't happen to work for Immersion do you? That post sounds like something straight from Immersions PR department.
Indeed their patents as they apply in this case to amount to little more than making things vibrate, especially patent 6,424,333 (which was applied for in April of 2001) which is a continuation of the other patent listed in suit, 6,275,213 (applied for in May 1, 2000). Basicly it covers using a computer controlled motor or motors to spin an uneven mass thus creating vibration, then using this computer control to sync the vibration to the users interaction with a simulation (in this case a video game).
http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&u=/netahtml/search-adv.htm&r=20&f=G&l=50&d=PTXT&p=1&p=1&S1=6,275,213&OS=6,275,213&RS=6,275,213
http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&u=/netahtml/search-adv.htm&r=67&f=G&l=50&d=PTXT&s1=Immersion.ASNM.&p=2&OS=AN/Immersion&RS=AN/Immersion
How Nintendo does not fall under this rather broad patent is beyond me. - Dgen_X, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1it's not just a patent on the mechanical parts...but also on the software involved
this isn't just a broad patent...it covers quite a bit
even though I'm a Nintendo fan...it urks me that they didn't think to look into how Nintendo's rumble works... - ooknabah, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Interesting in that Microsoft is mentioned but Nintendo is not. Is Nintendo's rumble technology that fundamentally different? Does Nintendo's history with the Rumble pack (which DOES predate the Dual Shock, at least by official release) have anything to do with it?
- cyrix, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2And you know the cell is crap how? I've seen rave reviews of the technology.
Wait, let me guess, you have a "friend of a brother" who works in the lab where they manufacture it? - cheddar, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1Well despite what people say/want, the PS3 will more than likely still be successful. This is mainly due to the fact that Sony has a strong brand loyalty in Japan. Most of the developers (Capcon, Konami, Square Enix, etc.) are in Japan. Sure there are US developers, but looking at the shelf of games I have, the majority of them are companies from Japan.
Dont get me wrong, US companies put out some great games. I just think for a system to be successful, you need to have a strong backing, and the PS3 seems to have that. - Bahwoot, on 10/12/2007, -5/+5That's bad news, One thing I liked about the PlayStation is their controller, second I don't want MS ***** gaining market on them because that would only mean more ***** games. I guess they could always change something for the PS3 controller. I always thought this controller would be perfect if they added 2 pressure triggers underneath the controller.
- WyllyWylly, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0I'm no fan of Sony, so I'm not hurt to see them losing in the courtroom. Not to mention my Logitech controller has a better fit, finish and feel to it than the ones that Sony provides, and it's wireless to boot.
Either way, I don't think I'll be losing much sleep over this. - Chompy, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2I'm torn. On one hand, I hate patent leech companies and wish the worthless scumbags who run them would die horrible deaths.. but on the other hand, I despise Sony and cheer whenever they come one step closer to ruin.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1- The boomerang controller is not likely to be the actual controller - if the PS3 ever comes out. It is more likely to look like the traditional PlayStation controller.
- affableamerican, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0prh99 -- Can't win with you people :) If you back the big corporations, you're a tool. If you back the little guy, you're a tool. I give up. I don't work for Immersion though... Those were just my thoughts on the matter. I do work in the games industry, and that's why I ended up reading quite a bit on this story.
From what I read (and again, this is just information that has been bouncing around the Web), the Nintendo method doesn't involve two spinning uneven masses, while the other two companies do use this method. That was the simplest explanation I saw. Cheers! - SenyorDrew, on 10/12/2007, -3/+3i guess I just disgust their marketing department.
Why do they always show pre-rendered footage? - PeterMeh, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Maybe one day laws will be enacted that bans "patent-sitting" like they are trying to do with the "domain-parkers".
But in the scheme of things, a "patent-sitter" at least "created" something, if only in "design" form.
"Domain-parkers" don't contribute anything to the advancement of the Internet, and have "created" nothing except for an income stream for their company.
One is bad, the other is worse.
But all-in-all, neither have a product to sell. (I do acknowledge that in this case, Immersion *do* have products)
(wow... too many quotes in that post ;-) ) - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1I actually agree with you to a certain point. Look at MS vs. Apple. It is EXACTLY the same. People either hate or love either company. Or neither!
People should be happy with competetion. That's why we get some of the products we get. It's called innovation and competition brings this out in companies. - prockcore, on 10/12/2007, -3/+2Yes. Immersion has produced something.. they make forcefeedback joysticks, controllers, and other things.
- SilentBobSC, on 10/12/2007, -3/+2Can you say NTP all over again? Has Immersion produced anything? If they're like NTP who have nothing to show for their patents, this is just another example of how out-of-whack the patent system really is...
In regards to the RIM/NTP patent dispute, RIM was forced to pay an exorbitant amount for infringing on a patent that is still being disputed, not to mention NTP had nothing to show for their patent... I'm sorry, if you have a patent and do nothing with it, and someone comes along and actually has a USE for the patent, tough luck... Sure there was alot of back-and-forth offerings and getting shot down, but I'm sorry, NTP (and maybe in this case, Immersion) don't deserve a damn penny for having a business model based solely on litigation. This IS what's wrong with the legal system these days... - Elxx, on 10/12/2007, -10/+9Oh man, biggest piece of fanboy flamebait I've seen all year on Digg. Can't you guys go back to licking Steve Jobs' ass?
- BugMeNot2, on 10/12/2007, -5/+4Who is this "they"?
You shouldn't be bashing something that you haven't even seen, let alone USE. - dragoonkain, on 10/12/2007, -3/+1I don't want to see Sony go down because they're one of the last good harbors for RPG gamers.
All of this patent law stuff is going way too far though. There's a difference between protecting intellectual property and stunting technological growth. "Force Feedback for a Game" is waaay too broad. Let's sue Nintendo for the N64 Rumble Pack, etc etc. (Does the Rumble Pack predate the Dual Shock?) - edto, on 10/12/2007, -7/+5Since they have a new boomerang controller for the ps3 I dont think they should worry about the dual shocks anymore.
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