What is Digg?132 Comments
- wisewaif, on 10/12/2007, -9/+52Jesus how I hate Paypal/eBay.
When the Nintendo DS came out and I sold a ton of them, they shut down my account every other week, and on XMas, they shut down my Paypal card, and I couldn't drive anywhere because all of my money was on the card.
Please, someone give us an alternative to this madness! - MrMuffMeat, on 10/12/2007, -3/+44A smogbean;
How is your comment relavent to what wisewaif said? Are you a 'tard? - djSyndrome, on 10/12/2007, -12/+52"I couldn't drive anywhere because all of my money was on the card."
Perhaps you should spend less time selling stuff on eBay and more time learning how to handle your finances. - VG05, on 10/12/2007, -3/+34I sold a PS3 2 days after launch. My paypal account is just fine. People PLEASE remember. DO NOT KEEP MONEY IN YOUR ACCOUNT !!!!!!
Use their service, then get your money out ASAP. Besides, ING Direct does 4.5% savings with no fees and no mins and Emigrants or even AmBoy does over 5% with no fees. - raynar, on 10/12/2007, -9/+37"Man another reason to avoid paypal!
I haven't heard one good thing about them ever."
Really. Ever? You've never heard anyone say "Man it's nice to just pay instantly right here" or someone else say "Hey, its nice to be able to pay a few bucks and get my cash deposited into my account, instead of waiting on a check that might bounce".
Ever? - craigkoh, on 10/12/2007, -1/+24I have over 170 feedback at 100%. The reason I posted this is because the dude actualy told me they where locking acounts on everyone, not just me.... My buyer did not have a probelm with the transaction, this is all random PayPal stuff...
- carve, on 10/12/2007, -1/+20I don't get it...why would they lock your account for selling these?
- merreborn, on 10/12/2007, -2/+19Locking innocent people's accounts isn't "Cracking down on fraud".
- akira117, on 10/12/2007, -4/+19Man another reason to avoid paypal!
I haven't heard one good thing about them ever. - Sp0rAdiC, on 10/12/2007, -0/+14Things like this are why I don't let money stay in my paypal account for more than 10 minutes
- Oubipaws, on 10/12/2007, -3/+17I had my account locked just for receiving money...sent them all the information and they still said they would not unlock it. PayPal can royally suck my nuts. lol
- hoowahman, on 10/12/2007, -2/+15I sold 1 PS3 and 2 Wiis on ebay over a week ago never had my account locked. I do have 57 feedback at 100% though. *shrug*
- oxyrubber, on 10/12/2007, -1/+13"Really. Ever? You've never heard anyone say "Man it's nice to just pay instantly right here" or someone else say "Hey, its nice to be able to pay a few bucks and get my cash deposited into my account, instead of waiting on a check that might bounce"."
Anything good about Paypal comes with a catch.
"pay instantly" = 2-3 days for your cash to be transferred into your bank account (if they don't freeze your bank account)
Bounced checks = PalPal chargebacks.
Paypal is convenient, but not: (1) reliable, (2) customer friendly (might have changed recently with the state lawsuits), (3) trustworthy, or (4) a smart choice.
Are you gonna tell these guys that they don't know what they are talking about? There's more than a few horror stories there.
http://www.paypalsucks.com/ - mspencer712, on 10/12/2007, -2/+14I work for a payment processor, but not PayPal. Even though they're a competitor, I have to say that this is a completely rational move.
(In the next few paragraphs, the 'processor' is the company (PayPal, First Data Resources, First National Merchant Solutions, etc.) that helps a merchant process cards. The 'merchant' is the person doing the selling, and is the subject of the original article. The 'customer' is the person who is paying the merchant.)
Any payment processor takes on risks for their customers. A merchant processes a payment, and the processor pays the merchant. The processor then gets paid by the customer through direct ACH debit, through a credit card sale, or whatever else.
The problem with this is that most of these electronic payment methods are reversable. If a customer wants to dispute an ACH debit (within 30 days if it's drawn on a consumer demand deposit account) they can. Similarly Visa or Mastercard transactions can be charged back. If one of these payments is charged back, then the processor (a company like PayPal) will have already paid their merchant but now they don't have the customer's money to cover that. So the processor has taken a risk -- now there's a chance they won't get their money back from the customer or from the merchant.
Processors are very concerned about this. Credit card processors like the one I work for pay close attention to how trustworthy their customers are. On a new merchant's application we find out what type of business they conduct, what their average annual sales volume is, how large their average sale and maximum sale are, etc.
We also watch a merchant's activity for unusual activity. I have personally seen an instance where a merchant registered as a hair salon processed a > $2000 USD sale. We put them on hold. When we asked the merchant why they ran such a large sale, they told us that sale was for their husband, who was a contractor and needed to get paid for a job he did.
We also watch for merchants who "break out" and start running fraudulent sales. The classic 'nightmare scenario' for a payment processor is a merchant who runs lots of sales against fraudulent cards, never ships product (or otherwise fulfill those sales), and then takes the money and skips to another country. Customers start to notice these unauthorized charges, and chargebacks start coming in. Now the processor has to pay back all that money, but they can't collect it back from the merchant because the merchant has fled the country.
In this case, PayPal merchants who have previously not processed many large sales have suddenly run some very large sales. These sales are reversable: if the merchant doesn't actually ship their scalped PS3 or Wii, the customer will charge that sale back. PayPal doesn't want to have to take a loss, so they are probably going to wait for the merchant to provide proof of delivery, wait for a certain period of time to pass (which makes it less likely that the sale is unauthorized), or do something else to limit their exposure to risk.
Now if PayPal executes this poorly -- maintains bad communication with its merchants, has bad customer service, or something else -- or if they're being excessively paranoid about risk, then that's a case for people to consider getting a "real merchant account" from a processor like the one I work for. :-)
tl;dr version: I wouldn't blame PayPal for what they've done. - zombiedepot, on 10/12/2007, -2/+13Paypal sucks.
- sjbdallas, on 10/12/2007, -2/+13@djSyndrome:
Not really a fair statement. Historically he obviously hasn't had problems with Paypal--they pay intereset on balances in the account and act much like any other bank -- so it's not that he doesn't know how to handle his finances.
My problem with the whole thing is that eBay lets people sell things at ridiculous prices which drives a secondary market through the roof (affecting the ability for normal folks to get a product like this) then they let their financial arm punish everyone who did it. Kind of like your mom saying you can stay up until midnight then your dad grounding you for it. - scabbers, on 10/12/2007, -13/+24Big cookies for all you poor scalpers. Boo hoo.
- Chongo, on 10/12/2007, -0/+10I was directly threatened by PayPal that they would deduct the money from my linked CHECKING account because I immedietly transfered the money from a sale to it (leaving no paypal balance).
Even though you will have access to the money, I think it really dosn't matter if you keep a balance on paypal or not. In the end they screw you anyways. - mr.hostility, on 10/12/2007, -2/+12VG05:
Exactly! Take the money out. I can't understand why people use PP as a legit bank account. - abohling, on 10/12/2007, -1/+10Are you paying income tax on all the systems you sold? Have a sales tax license for your state?
Small transactions on eBay were you aren't turning a profit are considered like garage sales - you can only do them so often and you aren't considered a business. Start turning profits and selling at high volume and then you may find yourself audited. - Snarfy, on 10/12/2007, -5/+13Happened to my girlfriend. She's out $500 until after christmas when the 'investigation will be completed'.
Thanks alot paypal! merry ***** x-mas to you too! - jwigum, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8Paypal is NOT a bank. They are governed by different regulations, and should be treated simply as a go between. Any money you recieve to a paypal account should be immediately withdrawn.
- pabster, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7Because they draw interest on your money?
PayPal locks accounts all the time. - skiordie, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6Just found out today that my account is limited, I can still receive payment and transfer. Paypal has not impressed me one bit.
- Chongo, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6The problem though is that paypal shuts your down and freezes your account and THEN asks you questions about it. One waning would be nice.
I'm not even talking about these PS3 stories.
I sold a perfectly good guitar for about 400 bucks for a friend of mine. Someone without asking any questions used BUY NOW and paid immedietly. My friend shipped it out and it turns out that the guy just didn't plain 'LIKE IT". It was not exactly what he expected. So he asked for the money back but of course I had already transfered it to my bank account and given my friend the cash. I was told directly by paypal that I was covered though because I did not offer any return services... HOWEVER because the guy put in a complaint to paypal, i was immedietly shut down. I was told again that in the end I would most likely win in the mediation, but they had said that it is generally a good idea to work something out and refund (I didn't want to get a bad feedback because of someone else). They did say though that if I were to lose and since the money was no longer in my paypal account, they were authorized to withdrawl money from my linked checking account. So anyways I initiated the return and he sent back the guitar (damaged of course). Low and behold it took both of us 3 months to get our accounts in order.
It really is PayPals lack of customer service that I think is getting on everyones nerves. It also shouldn't take 3 months to unlock your account... Also, it it unwise to threaten to take someones rent money from their bank account because someone made a bad impulse buy. - RyeBrye, on 10/12/2007, -2/+8Trust me. Everyone in the free world could scam someone and PayPal would still "have them money to refund them" thanks to the fees I've paid them.
PayPal sucks. - kuribo, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6So, you guys are buying up hot toys then making desperate parents pay twice as much to try and make their kids happy on Christmas?
Merry Christmas to you too. - drksun, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5wierd... i sold a wii on ebay on sun, my paypal is fine. gonna withdraw my $ incase :]
- BlueBoiks, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Too bad PayPal can reverse your withdrawal of funds before it even hits your bank account. This is why you setup one account for PayPal this account is with a completely different bank and has no access to any of your other accounts. Then if the money arrives in the other account you take the money out and put it into another account.
- quetranza, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5Amen. Paypal tried to bone me when I sold a bunch of 360s last year. ***** them. We need something better.
- signal15, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5Paypal IS a bank, and the problem is they are trying to avoid all of the regulations required as a bank. Someone needs to get off their ass in govt and slap some regulations on their asses.
- xjeffx, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5I had my account locked on Monday. I didn't sell a ps3 though, but they told me I did over the phone. I sold some tickets for$800 over craigslist, not ebay and the next morning it was locked. No complaints from my buyers or anything. I've talked to three people who keep telling me it'll be unlocked soon and ask for the same information over and over again.
I need my money! - Oubipaws, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3I wasn't even using eBay was the odd part, mine was for web design jobs...money was set to go into bank account and then suddenly...locked down...
Answer me this though; why would you want to receive money still under a limited account when most are never unlocked and the money is stuck for 180 days? - refreshingmedia, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4Your alternative is to post on classifieds sites and deal locally.
For this very reason, I created ConsoleConnector.com where people can post for FREE. Most sellers are now requiring people to do the exchange at a bank, which is smart. Even if you don't use my site to sell or buy your console, consider using craigslist or something similar.
I am sure people will digg down this because they think my site is spam (even though its not) but the fact remains that ebay/paypal may cancel your listings and freeze your accounts. It's sad that this is still an issue even after the consoles have shipped but there ARE alternatives.
Good luck. - ECB12, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4It is def happening. My entire paypal account is frozen and is "in review" they already know that the buyer is perfectly happy, they called him and asked, so why the hell do they still need to hold my money? The money was already out of paypal and they f'n took it back out of my bank account.
I've talked to them tons of times and the lady on the phone told me they are limiting every single ps3 sale. so i guess i was one of the unlucky ones who got picked since it's obviously not every single person.
Anyone know of a better way to get money online?
What really sucks is that EBAY FORCED ME TO USE PAYPAL!!!! - hngrval, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Please, someone give us an alternative to this madness!
http://checkout.google.com/
Just sign up for a seller account (takes 2 minutes) and start accepting money. It's really easy, has lower processing fees than PayPal, and it isn't a bank. They take the money from the buyer's credit card and deposit it directly in your bank account. So why not? - islandroots, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Happened to me as well, a longtime customer of eBay and PayPal (almost 6 years). Canceled the transaction and had the buyer send me a money order, which ticked off PayPal as they weren't getting the $30 transaction fee they would normally take from said transaction.
- LocalH, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3@scabbers:
***** you, communist. - digdigger, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3A financial institution, which is what PayPal appears to be in this case, should not be casting judgments on people and closing accounts as frivolously as this. Can you imagine your bank closing / freezing your bank account because you deposited money from... whatever, say selling a $20 tickle-me-elmo for $25? Wouldn't you have to be charged and a warrant be issued if some crime really happened? What is PayPal? A law maker, judge and the executioner all in one person?
I am not really happy about people skimming hundreds of dollars for pretty much doing nothing, that's wrong in my mind, but I don't think it's up to a "bank" to freeze your assets for that. What's next, PayPal decides that smoking is wrong and takes those people's money, or that we shouldn't go over the speed limit and close pretty much everyone else down?
WHY DON'T WE ALL CLOSE THE ACCOUNTS OURSELVES TO SHOW THEM THIS ISN'T ACCEPTABLE! - Cthalupa, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Exactly. It's all to protect the buyers from fraud.
While I can't say I was happy that my account was limited, I understand exactly why they did it. All that was required for them to delimit it was for me to fax them a copy of the receipt, and then input the tracking number I received when I shipped it. They had it unlocked within 48 hours.
Paypal hardly deserves to be crucified over this issue. - g3buz, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2@wisewaif
did you just say you put all your money on a paypal card? - kida001, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Yup, don't even get me started with Pay Pal. I have had so many problems with them over the years it is unbelievable. Thankfully I moved to a new city and was able to open an account under a different address. Pay Pal even put a hold on my Fathers account because we were under the same address. They said they did it to pressure me to pay the fee's for something I didn't agree too. I despise Pay Pal and hope google checkout prevails.
- teamgwho, on 10/12/2007, -3/+5give you an alternative to this madness? Dude, ever hear of a BANK? thumbs down for doing stupid enough to keep money in your paypal acct. Since day one paypal has ***** people who kept their money on their paypal acct. since you can instantly add funds from another source, people who buy using paypal needn't keep their money tied upo there. and sellers... well... it's not your money till it's in your hand or checking account is it, so why on earth allow someone else to hold your money for you? For that stupid debit card they offer? OMKG they give you eeiney weenei interest! Is that 2% of whatever worth all the ***** hassle they give their customers? Is it?
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Transfer your funds to a real checking account and use a real debit card.
Problem solved.
Wow, that was.. like hard and stuff. - Snarfy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2No, my gf is one of those desperate parents that paid twice the price, only she won't be getting anything. The seller wasn't going to ship it until he got the cash. With a locked account that wasn't going to happen so the whole deal got canceled. We still have to wait ~4 weeks to get any money back from Paypal, and their emails lead to believe that she won't even be getting all of her money back even though the seller never withdrew anything? what kind of ***** is that? $200 limit?
- xjeffx, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4Again, I did not sell a ps3, but in response to the people calling karma on the people who sold their ps3's for a profit.
Have you ever heard of supply and demand economics? Nobody who sold a ps3 on ebay forced anybody to pay that much for it. They were auctions that were bid up that much.
Do you go to a restaurant and complain that your meal costs you $9 when the ingredients were probably less than $2? No. If you were that concerned, you would have picked them up and cooked yourself.
Whether they went to scalpers or people who genuinely wanted to own a ps3, there wouldn't be enough units for people to purchase anyway so get over it. - rodonnell, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2I sold a PS3, provided a tracking number, my buyer was happy, but PayPal locked my account permanently, despite my phone calls. I now have to get my buyer to send the PS3 back so I can refund his money and NEVER USE PAYPAL OR EBAY AGAIN!
I've been a Paypal member since they started and an Ebay member since 1999 with 100% positive feedback on both. I'm glad the only money in there was from the PS3 sale. I hope Google Checkout puts them in their place one day... - LocalH, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2He didn't assume it, he was told it by PayPal
- lindmar, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3No, I think thats a legit link but I'm not sure about the claims
- imgodsfavorite, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2at least you sent your item out to your buyer...i was stupid and tried to buy a wii. seller took my money and sat on it for a couple of days and THEN tells me his account is limited. Instead of dealing with paypal on HIS end, he makes the problem mine. Now I have no item, seller has deleted his account with ebay and I'm out a butt load of money while the investigation continues.
- Simcom, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2This is true, I sold 2 PS3's in the last week and my account is locked now. First the paypal resolution center asked me to input the tracking numbers for the two packages, so i did that, 3 days later they sent me an email saying they want me to fax copies of the original store reciepts - wtf. Both packages were CONFIRMED delivered by UPS several days ago (they were shipped next day air)... Wtf. So i called tech support and told them I didnt have the reciepts b/c I sent them to the buyers of the PS3's, he said that he needed to send an email to each buyer asking them if they recieved the item, only then would they let me withdraw the money from my paypal account. WTF let me withdraw my money! I have been an ebay and paypal member since 2001 and have 60 positive feedback 100%. f*cking christ, they are holding my money hostage!
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