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68 Comments
- SimianSamurai, on 10/12/2007, -7/+75...Meanwhile, Nintendo comes closer to perfecting the technology necessary for... different colored plastic!
- LucasKane, on 10/12/2007, -3/+40Do the PC a favor and buy the games you really like for it once in awhile, ok?
- baldr, on 10/12/2007, -3/+39Synopsis:
Sony said they have started "production of parts of the PS3 chipset on a 65nm process."
Microsoft has said they will start in Q1 of 2007.
Sony will cut production costs by something around $40/console
Microsoft will cut production costs by $50/console. - zweben, on 10/12/2007, -16/+48And meanwhile the Nintendo execs are laughing their asses off at Sony and Microsoft fighting over the few hardcore gamers while Nintendo rakes in the millions from everyone else.
- sockpuppets, on 10/12/2007, -2/+27The smurfs.
- totorototoro, on 10/12/2007, -6/+26...and still manage to make a profit on the hardware at launch.
- pcgeek101, on 10/12/2007, -6/+26"The Mooninites already made a 65 MILLION nm. They're just that superior"
I'm sorry, but that was superior at sounding very retarded. - deadbaby, on 10/12/2007, -2/+18"but where is their media strategy"
They're a gaming company. They don't have one, they don't want one. - pcgeek101, on 10/12/2007, -3/+17"Do the PC a favor and buy the games you really like for it once in awhile, ok?"
I do when they're worth it. Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion I bought on release day! Totally worth it - sexycommando, on 10/12/2007, -1/+14or they could drop the core 360 price to $250, matching the Wii!
- yoda133113, on 10/12/2007, -0/+11Well they shouldn't get dugg down all the time. The Wii has the basically the same processor and GPU as the Gamecube, just both of them are faster (think early P4 vs. late P4, both are P4s just the late ones are faster). It's about double to triple the power of a GC and roughly the same as an Xbox. However the Wii is awesome in other ways, what it doesn't and can't do by horsepower alone it does with an innovative control scheme and easily accessible games for all. So yeah, from a technological standpoint, the Wii is basically an upgraded or overclocked Gamecube with more memory, but overall it kicks ass.
- baldr, on 10/12/2007, -1/+12Very true. Production costs reduction != price drop.
But often times gaming companies won't mind taking a loss when selling hardware, because they know that if you buy the hardware: you will buy the software, which is where they can make the money. - totorototoro, on 10/12/2007, -3/+12I don't think calling the Wii "an overclocked Gamecube" is the issue, its calling the Wii "merely an overclocked Gamecube" that is the point of contention :p
To me, the Wii is all about the nifty WiiMote-after playing a few games with it, going back to an old Gamecube or PS2 controller just feels so clunky :) - mb96net, on 10/12/2007, -1/+9There already is, it's called a PC.
- TonyCubed, on 10/12/2007, -2/+10Even though the price reduction is great, doesn't mean Sony will cut the price by $40 on the console, they'll milk the money like Microsoft did. On the other hand, Microsoft have a really good buffer on how much they can drop the price without actually losing money on a console. They are making around $75 per console now right? Another $50 reduced in manufacturing will bring that upto $125, so they could ***** Sony around like by making a $70-$100 price drop.
- meltingrobot, on 10/12/2007, -1/+9I personally like the idea of competition. One console maker = less innovation.
- Phocion55, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6"but really, [who] gives a rats ass?"
4 million people and counting - EtherGnat, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7Assuming those price estimates are right the build price of the consoles after the die shrink would drop to the following amounts:
$273 -- X-Box 260 Premium
$790 -- PS3 Premium
If Microsoft can really make the X-Box for just over 1/3 of what it will cost to make the PS3 then Sony is in trouble. - Tikkimann, on 10/12/2007, -4/+9"It is worth noting that Nintendo also benefited from process shrinks with the Wii, although their strategy was to take similar technology from the GameCube with more modest improvements (a higher clock speed, mostly) and gain the cost benefit of the die shrink right away. So far, their gamble has paid off, as Wiis continue to be in short supply."
I don't really know the specs for the Wii, but I do know that anyone who calls the Wii an overclocked Gamecube gets dugg down like there's no tomorrow. Is this true? - mooninite, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5@Krymore
Drop those sweatpants and get prepared to be spanked with moon rocks.
... and yes, the PC has won. Why is he being dugg down? Console fanboys? Oh lord. - sockpuppets, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6"Its more expensive to create newer chips so they will stick to a tried tested and sold product to make the margins higher."
You're a retard. A smaller chip means higher yields, ergo the cost of manufacturing goes down. - jmaynardg, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5The 360 failures are not due to bad electronics. That is, the chip design and motherboard layout on the 360 is very good. But the industrial design on that 360 case ought get those guys shot. What a total POS. Not only do you have the DVD drive sitting atop that 20gb hard disk, causing a major heat problem, but there's also three internal fans to blow hot air out the back. One fan dies... time to service that 360. It's just a rotten case design for airflow. The first external power supplies were also a problem, but from what I understand that issue has been resolved. A 65nm transition will help heat issues by reducing overall heat output, but it is still a brain-dead case design.
- sockpuppets, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4George the companies themselves say it's cheaper to move to a 65nm process. This benefit will initially be used to offset the cost of the transition and later be used to reduce the price of the console, resulting in more unit sales. Instead of just talking ***** on digg why don't you take the time to go educate yourself on processor fabrication, perhaps at wikipedia?
- swany1012, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4How about we start calling it CURRENT GEN....all of them are out now
- fplouffe, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5That's so helpful
- thund3rstruck, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3"And meanwhile the Nintendo execs are laughing their asses off at Sony and Microsoft fighting over the few hardcore gamers while Nintendo rakes in the millions from everyone else."
Yea, and those Nintendo execs are also laughing at you, the consumer for clammering at the opportunity to spend your money on 7 year old technology!
My wife an I camped out for a Wii for our daughter and I'm still astonished that it's being called "Next-Gen". Sure it's fun, but then my old N64 games are fun also. Nintendo doing exceptionally well this round is going to hurt the gaming community rather than help it. - HappyScrappy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3And Intel getting to 45nm has what to do with this?
Neither company uses an Intel processor.
The transistion from 65nm to 45nm will reduce costs about as much as the 90->65nm transition.
By the time Sony gets to 45nm, they'll have all the main functions on one chip again, which will allow them to make the unit smaller and the motherboard smaller and cheaper. That seems like a decent cost savings to me.
MS should be able to do the same, although they have not been as good at integration in the past. Witness the current 360's separate video output chip (ANA). No matter how much you think of the job that chip does, it'd be cheaper to integrate the functionality onto another chip instead of having it separate.
And what yield problems? Sony shipped 1.68M PS3s in 2006. That's pretty good for your first six weeks. - Wisgary, on 10/12/2007, -0/+365 MILLION nm = 2.5 inches.
You fail at common sense, comedy, math and life. - totorototoro, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3baxtermaddux,
they were giving away those 360 controllers for PC at the Vista launch-you didn't score one? - f8pc, on 10/12/2007, -5/+7Yeah, continue to get "free" games for yourself and pretty soon there will be no free games to get for the PC.
- HappyScrappy, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3Sony works directly with a fab (Toshiba), and has already started on 45nm work with them. MS uses contract fabs and is in the midst of 65nm right now.
I expect Sony will be there first, and it'll probably save them more money than MS. Of course, chopping $100 off PS3 versus $50 off 360 isn't going to get Sony to price parity. - djrbx, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Yeah, The 360 controller can and already is used as a PC gaming controller if you wish.
- jmaynardg, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2The .65nm die shrink will help Cell far more than Xenon. This is principally due to the size of each die: Cell is 222mm2 while Xenon is 190mm2. Both are large, but Cell is so large that its excess size has caused severe yield problems. Sony has been disabling one of the eight SPUs in order to increase yields. Which, if you look at a photograph of the chip:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cell_microprocessor
is about 30mm2 (or the size difference between Cell and Xenon). That's a significant loss, especially since Sony (and their customers) are paying for a full 222mm2 of that chip, regardless of its functionality. Hopefully, a transition to 65nm will resolve both problems at once. Though, it should be said that the smaller Xenon will always have a price advantage due to its smaller size. - MrFlesh, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Jesus why is it that people can't get thier information about the PS3 right? Sony said they were not looking at a price drop anytime soon.
- yoda133113, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3Well for one, many companies do offer a PC that looks good on the shelf with your TV etc. and yes you can use an xbox controller, or one of a thousand other PC only controllers on your PC, then you can go buy one of a few hundred joysticks and steering wheels for your PC also. The PC can play any game made for it, and many that aren't (pretty much all old consoles are emulated or getting there). However, just as PCs have there place, so do consoles, for instance I can get an Xbox for 400 and play games that would require a 2,000+ dollar PC to play at that quality, and I pretty much get a guarantee they will work without any effort to mess with settings etc.
- mokeyjoe, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2They're all IBM processors. IBM are the real winners in this console war, no matter which console you buy that's what you're getting.
- jmaynardg, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Intel will get to 45nm long before Sony. AMD might as well (though that's debatable). But while I agree that the transition from 90nm to 65nm will tremendously help Sony with their yield problems, I doubt the transition from 65nm to 45nm will have as large an impact.
- mb96net, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1"then why doesnt a compnay make a PC that can do everything a PS3 can do that will look good on the entertainment shelf and sell it? "
Lots of companies do, try looking. What can a PS3 do? Watch movies, play games, etc. Any PC can too. Also there are lots of cool cases that would look great on the entertainment shelf.
"There is a connector so that you can play games on a PC with a xbox 360 remote? cause they should be making that pronto"
Just in case you weren't joking, you can use an xbox 360 controller on a PC...
Xbox 360 remote? you mean controller...yeah it's called a driver. - BillDoE, on 10/12/2007, -3/+4I could care less about the price. What I do care about is that 2 out of 2 Xbox 360's I bought on launch day have died. They better fing fix the quality of manufacturing problems or I will no longer be a customer, period. I've talked to too many people on XB live with similar, or worse stories to think it's not widespread as MS claims.
- fallenone05, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1that's why Microsoft is a Software company
- vertinox, on 10/12/2007, -5/+6@"So while Microsoft and Sony are selling games, music, and movies to millions"
So um... How are those PSP UMD sales doing?
And should I throw out my iPod and Zune so I can keep my music collection on my Xbox350 and PS3? - razorpit, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1"most people bought the crap console because "everyone else is doing it."
Funny, I said the same thing about the PS2 and PSP...
"but where is their media strategy"
I think Nintendo has done pretty well over the last 25 or so years without having to worry about MP3 and DVD downloads. If you are basing success from those items then iTunes is the king of all media right now and I don't see MS or Sony catching them anytime soon. - Doghound, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1The only time it is really worth it is when there is an online component to the game.
- GeorgeTuk, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2OK fair dos sockpuppet, I was wrong and I stand corrected. The swearing was bit much though.
- inevitab1e, on 10/12/2007, -5/+5The wii is going to be short lived, I give it a year. The sad part is......most people bought the crap console because "everyone else is doing it." Americans and their wannabee selves trying to be like the next person. Get your own life.
- djrbx, on 10/12/2007, -3/+3Yeah, cause we all know that they need all the money that they get from the current release to create the new PS3 called PS3 Rootkit Edition.
/sarcasm - crimsonnblue, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1@georgetuk
This cuts manufacturing costs, and therefore will result in a quicker console price cut. This will matter to people when the prices go down. - dclowd9901, on 10/12/2007, -4/+4"They are making around $75 per console now right?"
Who said that? Last I heard, they were still losing big on consoles...
Update: Nevermind... From Wikipedia (quoting iSuppli): "Thanks to streamlined processes and ample component supplies, a report from iSuppli released on November 16, 2006, estimates the total cost of components in the premium bundle is US$323.30.[20]" - Ramtech, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1as pcgeek101 said...
I do when they're worth it...
***** you - freetyme, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1@baxtermaddux its called competition, I'm sure if you moved to a complete socialist economy they will have a single entertainment solution for you.
It will be called government programming
Have fun with your single source of information and entertainment, with no choice!
(IS anyone having trouble with digg it doesn't seem the thread , or replies are working correctly) -
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