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117 Comments
- SimonX314, on 10/12/2007, -4/+71All Microsoft is doing is switching their processor to a smaller, more heat efficient design. Every console goes through several versions as technology advances allows for simpler and cheaper parts to be used. This will not affect the end user in any way, just save M$ some money, allowing them to lower the price this holiday. Don't get hung up on the "faster" comment, console games are completely dependent on all the console hardware being identical. Games often use the processor clock for timing, which means a faster processor would make games run in "fast-forward". If any hardware is changed for some reason, its extra features are often "disabled" to preserve the identical nature of the console. For example, M$ switched from 8GB drives to 10GB drives on the Xbox 1 since 10GB drives were more common and therefore cheaper. But this extra 2 GB was left unallocated as to not fragment the user base. Anyone who says Microsoft is going to release faster and faster versions of their console, doesn't understand consoles very well.
- megsme85, on 10/12/2007, -0/+48Identical machines. Companies change around the internal components for manufacturing reasons all the time.
- Blaze312, on 10/12/2007, -2/+32megsme85 is right;
The original XBOX went through many changes 1.0 to 1.6 I believe.
For instance the 1.0 version had a fan with the processor heat sink, they later removed this fan and left just the heat sink.
Same price, no noticable change to the user. The only way you would know such things is if you (or someone) voided the warrenty in order to check out the internals of their XBOX.
By the way; Mod Scene I love you. - kkaabboomm, on 10/12/2007, -1/+26yeah, very misleading summary by BlackBox - they aren't upgrading their CPU, they are just switching to a 65nm manufacturing process, thereby reducing the amount of heat and power consumption. the design of the processor and the cores and speed and the cache and everything else is the same, just physically made smaller
- carmel, on 10/12/2007, -1/+22Its almost a year since they started manufacturing the 360, isn't it about time for a cost-saving manufacturing change?
- davidv, on 10/12/2007, -13/+27Whats wrong with you people? The guy only makes a generic statement, not even backed up by any source, and gets thumb'd up the wazoo, and I ask where that statement comes from and get negatives. I'm not even against xbox, I know companies do these sort of upgrades all the time that its hardly news.
- ProAm500, on 10/12/2007, -15/+29and I dont understand why you say "M$"....
- Linkin4, on 10/12/2007, -2/+14Yeah, no way will this result in a speed change, Microsoft doesn't want companies making games that run well on "Model number XXX and up only!" Bad business.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -10/+22what does that mean though, free upgrades for all? paid upgrades? two sets of specs floating around? basically identical machines that produce less heat?
i mean they did say "faster".... - android8675, on 10/12/2007, -1/+12...or maybe if you were to say, look at the model number and manufacturing date printed on the bottom of the XBox? (it's a silver label, hard to miss and if you look at the retail packageing, the sticker shows through a little window on the back of the box. Now you know, and no voided warranty) Of course opening up the XBox is always fun, and warranties do eventually expire. :)
I always suggest to my friends if the store has a lot of stock that they bring out a console from their most recent shipment. PS2 released their consoles with the new built in IR receiver, quieter CD drive and Fans (about a 40% noise reduction) just before the slim PS2s, but never pulled the older louder versions of the PS2 from the shelves. Silly! - pewpfite, on 10/12/2007, -0/+11uhh iceperson... ever think it could be your HDTV? The chances of 8 consecutive xboxes all failing in the exact same way (especially with an issue that I think is quite uncommon) is astronomically slim.
Hey, well, this way at least you get to slam Microsoft, right? - adml_shake, on 10/12/2007, -4/+14but not for us that said "no wait a while for the upgrades" when the thing launched...
- android8675, on 10/12/2007, -4/+14People like to think M$ is evil multi-billion dollar conglomerate (which I guess they sometimes are), they use the dollar sign to express their disgust that Microsoft is making so much money, and they aren't, or something.
- Hexxagonal, on 10/12/2007, -34/+44failure rates of xbox 360 are less than industry standards
- ScoTTeh, on 10/12/2007, -4/+13Windows actually has great software compatability compared to any other OS, although not perfect. Its one of their downfalls.
- KyleRayner, on 10/12/2007, -2/+11So, somebody's slim PS2 actually will play Final Fantasy XI? Word!
- Sundae, on 10/12/2007, -0/+9"Games often use the processor clock for timing, which means a faster processor would make games run in 'fast-forward'."
That would have been the case with the NES and other vintage consoles, as well as really old PC games. But the XBOX 360 isn't that different from a desktop computer, and surerly Oblivion on the PC doesn't run in fast-forward mode on a faster computer, just smoother.
Now, I don't think that newer 360s are being shipped with faster CPUs, but it has nothing to do with the speed of games. - usefulidiot, on 10/12/2007, -1/+9Sadly video games ARE technology... quit your bitchin and get back in the kitchen
- Bobtastic, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8@utahsaint:
Third place in terms of sales, first place in terms of profits. - KyleRayner, on 10/12/2007, -2/+9Yeah, we real poor slobs are waiting for a price drop or two. ;)
- outlanderBZ, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8right, this happens in every industry. They always change the internal components to help produce them cheaper. everything will run the same. My original PS2 is still running the same games someone's "slim" one is running. This is the stuff the uninformed public takes and just plain makes up crap, like there will be games that doesn't play on one but on another.
just like the fact that the HD-DVD is not to play games. everyone thinks it is. It is simply to watch HD-DVD content but anyone with home AV background would laugh at someone using their Xbox as a DVD player. It just simply doesnt perform like a quality DVD player.
simply will not be true - idesign, on 10/12/2007, -3/+9Good luck with IBM getting yields in volume to supply them with. Go ask Apple how well IBM hits their targets when switching to a smaller die.
- spyrochaete, on 10/12/2007, -2/+865nm process means they can make more chips from a wafer which brings down cost and increases output. It also increases speed and efficiency even without upping the clock because electricity travels a shorter distance around the chip.
- Dabellah, on 10/12/2007, -4/+10Ever solder a PS2 or Xbox modchip onto the board? Well I've been through about 4 PS2's and 3 Xbox's, and out of all of them 2 (I REPEAT 2!!) PS2's had similar boards. The rest were all different from one another. Just an example as to how this statement couldn't be any truer to the fact that manufacturers do switch up the internals while producing the same overall grade of product. Sometimes, in this case stated by Microsoft, there might be a speed increment produced in the process, however this is irrelevant as the changes were bound to take place just like all other consoles out there.
- panique, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7Deja vu. I have a funny feeling I've heard IBM making similar claims about reducing the heat and power requirements of the PowerPC before...
- onceler, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5Nintendo is playing a different game (no pun intended) than the others here. Microsoft and Sony are pushing the envelopes of technology whereas Nintendo is trying to push the envelopes of game-play. By placing your focus on the bleeding edge of technology, you will see a lot more tweaks than using something tried and true. Heck, even the game cube had a major revision - removing the digital video output.
- SenatorPenguin, on 10/12/2007, -4/+9I had to return two separate 360's due to freezing, likely caused by overheating. My current one still freezes, but very sporadically, maybe once every 12 hours of gameplay, and fortunately for me, only directly after autosaves in Oblivion, when a new map is loading (I guess pretty DVD drive intensive). Once this upgrade occurs, I will probably invoke my EB Games warranty yet again.
- Lumiras, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6they're not going to make one version of the 360 faster than the other, becaue they want to avoid a big problem in the PC gaming community, which is making sure your PC will work with the software you're buying. With a console, you put the disk in and it works, no problem. If MS would have two different processors with two different clock speeds, it would be a problem with developers and it would seriously piss off the early adopters, the people who also buy a lot of games.
Smaller and cooler is always nice, but faster won't happen - xelloss, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7@ deepsub Microsoft said they had failure rates of 2-3% of the Xbox 360 made, if you do the math its alot of Xbox 360 and people now adays speak out about there broken products more.
- CornStarch, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6triple 3.2ghz cores will run pretty ***** boss if they are 65nm or not. I mean all the games out right now are running on only one core and look how great they look.
- j_bellone, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5No, at this point, if HD-DVD comes out on the Xbox 360 it will only be for viewing movies.
- SquidMonkey, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4The fast forward effect seems pretty unlikely with modern games. I am a programmer, who has written a fair bit of real time 3D graphics code. On modern games you usually update the position of what you are animating before every frame is drawn. You always take in to account the current FPS, remember the FPS isn%u2019t always constant. If the camera moves to a more demanding part of the level everything would run slower.
I have to be honest I have never written an XBox360 game, but I am sure the same theory applies; after all they both use very similar 3D technology.
Anyway the last thing Microsoft wants to do is have games that only run on half the XBox360s. Not only would it confuse users, but it would cost Microsoft. Remember they sell the consol at a loss and make money back from games and other accessories, they would not want you "buying" a second Xbox360 or less games. - lukas88, on 10/12/2007, -3/+7MikeCampo, don't let it get to you, nerds are just sensative.
- thesauce, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4At my old work we had a DreamX xbox that has the 1.4ghz proc upgrade, and in some games you actually did have the fast forward effect. Most of them were fine though.
- Nobi-Wan, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Do you think when the slim PS2 came out that the earlier PS2 owners got to swap for free?
- kevnaca, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Every game console goes through small incremental upgrades to solve developed problems (i.e. heat in this case). This is just one of them.
- drn666, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5@SenatorPenguin: Did you return to Best Buy (or where you bough it), or Microsoft?
I had a 360 that was freezing within 5 minutes of play on any game - I called MS support, and within 2 minutes was being shipped a carton to send it back.
My new one has never froze, even once... it has a similair manfucturing date but is clearly been through service.
If I had to guess, I'd say Microsoft knows about a clear problem in certain batches of 360's and is refurbing them quietly. If you have 360 troubles, call their support and get a replacement. - Markdoggin, on 10/12/2007, -3/+7O.K. now can they also include a built-in HD-DVD drive and forget about the whole adding one via USB!
- Rousterfar, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5They won't change the clock speed. They can't. It's a console. All they are doing is making it smaller and are going to reduce how much heat it makes.
- socket, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Yah the speed difference will mean nothing. But it's important they get the heat down and reduce power consumption. I'd say this is a win win situation... assuming you don't already own one. =)
- deepsub, on 10/12/2007, -8/+11@Hexxagonal: What is the source for your stats?
- wild, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Get over it friend. Its a social bookmarking site, its going to be whatever people are interested in. Hell, "gaming" is one of the main categories...
- bigstinky, on 10/12/2007, -3/+6This is precisely why I wait before buying the newest machines. Understandably, sometimes you just 'gotta' get it the minute it comes out. ( Kind of like new cars.) It's a lot easier to wait when a system sells for 700 bucks with all the trimmings. I'm holding out 'til the PS3 hits with it's first price cut...Probably 1.5 - 2 years after the system launches. That is, unless I 'm holding on to some serious cheddar, then I'll be off to the races buying all 3 ...Am I a turd if I'm actually more excited by the revolution than the PS3 ???
- Blaze312, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4Although they deny this.. I am sure in a year or two when the price if those drives has decreased they will add one.
Probably at a time when sony lowers the price of the PS3 or something.
MS: We're not going to drop the price of the XBOX360, but we will include a HD-DVD for the same price as an added bonus.
Similar to how they bundle more crap that you don't need to keep the price of the XBOX1 the same. - MStiles, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4This is not really news.
All this is saying is that Microsoft will transition the CPU from 90nm to 65nm manufacturing process. Virtually all consoles go through these transitions as the years roll on, to reduce costs and increase manufacturing capacity. Don't be surprised if the GPU transitions at around the same time (engineers at Microsoft are working on that design now).
There will be no performance improvement for 360s made using this process. It is important, over all else, that performance is consistant across all consoles, new and old. You can't alienate the millions of customers that buy a 90nm CPU version by saying "your game won't run this fast enough, it's really meant for the 65nm faster CPUs."
This WILL lower power consumption, so it's possible the power brick will shrink. The fan that spins up and makes the 360 relatively loud might be able to maintain lower RPMs, as well. - deepsub, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3And using 65 nm parts will increase gross margins on each console because the CPU's will cost less to manufacture.
- mardak, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4Six sigma production allows only 3.4 errors per 1 Million units.
- Nobi-Wan, on 10/12/2007, -0/+32 of my friends have Xbox 360s. The first one was pretty loud, I'll admit, but the new ones they have I can't even hear.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Yeah, the article is innacurrate, as others have stated; they're not upgrading the CPU, merely moving it to a 65mm process as soon as possible, a completely sensible and non-game-affecting decision.
- digitarius, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3To be honest, I've gotten enough enjoyment out of my 360 so far (and, I assume, for the next year) to justify being an early adopter. At least in my case. This is a minor, expected change that won't really matter for any game- publishers won't segment the market for a miniscule performance difference. I'd expect you might see some benchmark improve, somewhere, like maybe the encoding involved in ripping CDs to the hard drive, something trivial like that.
I remember a few years back some guys put a beefier celeron proc inside an Xbox 1, with a little switch that went from "Normal" to "Turbo", which was the full speed of the new chip. Because of the way the Xbox 1 games were made, they were dependant on a set clock speed to function at a given speed- so if you Overclocked the thing, it basically just sped up the game. I don't know if that's how they're building 360 apps, but if that is the case then there couldn't possibly be a difference at all. Otherwise everybody would end up with faster versions of COD2 next year that'd just be harder to play. -
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