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Microsoft Confirmed: 360 HD-DVD for $200

kotaku.com — "Microsoft has confirmed what a lot of us suspected today, the Xbox 360 HD-DVD player will sell for $199.99 here in North America. The HD-DVD player add-on will include a copy of King Kong in HD DVD for a limited time and a 360 Universal Media Remote."

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  • neomits, on 10/12/2007, -9/+45Nice move on it including an HD DVD a remote. That increases my interest
    • djSyndrome, on 10/12/2007, -9/+16If you look at the price in terms of the first-run pack-ins (and assuming you actually *want* both of them), the drive is only $144. Not a bad deal at all.
    • ucbrave92, on 10/12/2007, -8/+21that is actually a pretty good deal. upon first read of the headline i was thinking "ouch" but to see that you also get a remote and a DVD i know i will be purchasing one.
    • ReCkLeSsX, on 10/12/2007, -17/+10Well this was expected, but I think it should be cheaper.
    • negativefx, on 10/12/2007, -20/+4After already investing in a Logitech Harmony remote, I could care less about that crappy universal remote (I returned it as soon as I got the harmony). And as for King Kong....lame.

      The drive probably costs them $160 to make and they're just throwing in $10 worth of swag and selling for another $25.
    • Software2, on 10/12/2007, -12/+25"that is actually a pretty good deal. upon first read of the headline i was thinking "ouch" but to see that you also get a remote and a DVD i know i will be purchasing one."

      Congratulations. You're exactly why companies bundle stuff.
    • Nobi-Wan, on 10/12/2007, -8/+28Thank you for the option, Microsoft.
    • hobbla87, on 10/12/2007, -12/+36what do you know, more than the ps3 now...
    • WhereAmI, on 10/12/2007, -5/+12I agree hobble, but the fact that it is seperate really helped the 360.
    • sporkwitch, on 10/12/2007, -6/+19Far as I'm concerned it's only a half-point in their favor. That price tag, even if you just count it at 150, puts it above the basic PS3 package, and only 50 below the good package (and the good package is well worth the money, especially if you run the math).

      PS3 Basic: 499, 20GB HDD, BLU-RAY player
      PS3 Good: 599, 60GB HDD, BLU-RAY player, media card readers (memory stick pro duo, SD, and one other, I forget which), and integrated wifi capability

      X-Box 360: 399
      X-Box 360 with HD-DVD player: 599, no media card readers, no integrated wifi (IIRC)

      Admittedly the 360 DOES have a media center extender, which is just an insignificant piece of software that tells it how to access windows file sharing on your XP Media Center (and ONLY the Media Center Edition of XP) PC (a neat feature though, I'll admit, especially since I run my cable through my computer, not my tv, specifically for MCE).

      The reason I do say it is in their favor is because they DO give you the choice. But most people (at least I think so) will make the choice to upgrade. I know I probably would, if I were on the HD-DVD side of the fence (I personally prefer BLU-Ray, but I've also heard less about HD-DVD than BLU-Ray).
    • neonic, on 10/12/2007, -6/+26I just find it amusing that everyone is like "Oh man that is a great deal." Well think about it. As sporkwitch said, it is more expensive than the PS3. So when you look at it, with Xbox 360 you get a game console and a next gen DVD player. Now you look at the PS3 and you get: a more powerful gaming console, and a next gen DVD player that can hold twice as much data as an HD-DVD. I think this is a double standard.
    • oGMo, on 10/12/2007, -7/+17@sporkwitch: Yeah. Also don't forget, the PS3 has HDMI (both models now), and most importantly for the immediate future, games can take advantage of the increased capacity of Blu-Ray. And it will output native 1080p, whereas the upcoming 360 patch will merely upscale.
    • rileyjt, on 10/12/2007, -6/+7I'm sure there will be HD DVD bundles with the 360 that will cut the costs even more if you are looking for an all-in-one solution. I am happy for the choice though - I have no desire to enter in the format war at this point and do not see a tremendous upgrade for HD movies.
    • stubadub, on 10/12/2007, -7/+8Until neonic's post I hadn't realized all you get with the 360 is a game console, as opposed to a powerful game console. Those dirty Microsoft bastards!
    • oGMo, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7@rileyjt: Cutting cost is only half the story. You will rarely if ever get games that come on HD-DVD. I'm not sure this is even an option, but let's say it is for the sake of argument. Developers are simply not going to invest in building all the high-def content and extra maps and code---what essentially is another version of the game---for the increased capacity of HD-DVD for a very small population. It's already bad enough they can't rely on everyone having a hard drive.

      Of course, if it's not an option, then you're just screwed anyway; even if for the sake of argument the 360 is just as powerful as the PS3, you're lacking the capacity to take advantage of it.
    • Nobi-Wan, on 10/12/2007, -5/+10What some of you guys are forgetting (now that the 360 has an HD-DVD drive and is now on par with the cost of the PS3) is that not EVERY 360 owner is going to buy this. What do you think is the overall percentage of households that even own an HDTV? Although I'm sure it looks good...I'm not willing to spend an extra $200 on a console (let alone a couple thousand dollars for the TV itself) just to see a marginally prettier picture. At least not yet, anyways.

      I'm waiting for a large HDTV screen to come waaaay down in price before I get one and I'm sure there are millions of people that think just like me. Until then I'll keep playing my 360 hooked up to my 19 inch LCD monitor. HD gaming on the cheap.

      PS: Who says which format is going to win, anyway? As far as I can tell, Sony doesn't exactly have the best record for media formats.
    • CarbonEclectic, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6I know that it's just aesthetics, but my real gripe with the HD-DVD drive is that it really just doesn't look good alongside the 360 and even though the 360 can output to 1080p with the new software update, it's still not as high a quality as an HDMI connection. I hope that Microsoft releases a new 360 with HDMI and integrated HD-DVD, THAT would be worth a 600 dollar price tag, not a 400 dollar console with a 200 dollar peripheral.
    • ByteGuerilla, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4The upcoming patch does not have the 360 upscaling to 1080p, it gives the 360 the capability to output 1080p the same as any other 1080p-enabled device. Hence why it's something for games/movie content providers to take advantage of.
    • sporkwitch, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Actually Nobi-Wan, I addressed the question of choice several posts back. Nice try though, read the thread next time ^^

      SporkWitch said:
      "The reason I do say it is in their favor is because they DO give you the choice."
  • n8r0n, on 10/12/2007, -5/+25Not a bad price point, but I still don't like the idea of an external drive, just adds the clutter.
    • negativefx, on 10/12/2007, -17/+2So you'd rather void your warranty by ripping your 360 apart to put a new drive in?

      If I'm doing that, I better be putting a mod chip in.
    • Nobi-Wan, on 10/12/2007, -9/+9The difference is that you don't HAVE to pay the extra $200 for an HD-DVD drive if you don't want that clutter.
    • TheXeno, on 10/12/2007, -3/+6@Nobi-Wan

      "The difference is that you don't HAVE to pay the extra $200 for an HD-DVD drive if you don't want that clutter."

      Which is also why Blu-ray will most likely gain greater market share. Love or hate Sony, but it was the smarter move from a business standpoint. I don't like the forcing of Blu-ray either, but frankly, it'll win the so called format "war" because it's bundled.
  • totorototoro, on 10/12/2007, -17/+6$199.99 with the remote and a copy of King Kong in HD-DVD..
    $249.99 with the remote and no copy of King Kong in HD-DVD.
    • negativefx, on 10/12/2007, -15/+6It's worth the extra $50!
    • Ray_Justice, on 10/12/2007, -9/+2what are you guys talking about?
    • ToeCheese, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2King Kong is not worth the $30 bucks! Figure in $20 for the remote which I hope is better than the Original XBox remote. I would take an HD-DVD if they had a un-bundled version for $160. But the only reason to get the HD-DVD is for movies and the pile of crap that these movie companies are releasing far out weighs my need to view it in Hi-Def.

      I have a Upscaling DVD player and it looks good enough on my Sony 1080i set.

      How about releasing some new titles that are not on XBox Live Arcade? How about pushing "Phantasy Star Universe" out the door already.
  • pathy, on 10/12/2007, -4/+11You know the best thing about it?

    It's £130 in the UK, not £200. Hoo-rah.
    • imajin, on 10/12/2007, -16/+3the dollar is not equal to the pound, so obviously it wont cost 200pounds if it costs 200dollars. :/
    • thewebguy, on 10/12/2007, -3/+4yeah i was surprised by that.

      a lot of times they do stuff like that.
    • daldredge, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7Add ons such as this one do not pay the higher import tarrifs that game consoles pay.
    • JimJams, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0You'd be surprised how often the UK gets shafted and has to pay the same amount in £'s as America pays in $s...
  • bpinard, on 10/12/2007, -6/+4This is great.

    Nice idea including a remote. I'm glad I held off buying one last week.
  • starbird, on 10/12/2007, -11/+32this, in addition to the $400 (hard drive equipped) x-box makes this....

    $600

    This should slow the PS3 price bashing....

    (or not)
    • pathy, on 10/12/2007, -8/+37It's equal pricing - but you don't have to buy the HD-DVD addon for the 360, do you?

      Not only that, it'll probably drop in price as more players come out, and more HD-DVD movies come out. If the movies don't come out, then you don't have to buy it.

      Ta-da.
    • negativefx, on 10/12/2007, -9/+24The $200 hike is only for the *philes who just have to have that extra clarity in their videos. I have a 50" 1080p and I can say that you can barely see a difference between BluRay and regular DVD on it (I saw it on display on my exact tv at circuit city).

      With Sony, they're forcing you to buy it.
    • djSyndrome, on 10/12/2007, -6/+16True, but the HD-DVD drive is optional. If you don't want it, you aren't forced to buy it (as you are with Blu-Ray). Sony is attempting to cram Blu-Ray down everyone's throats by using the PS3 as a Trojan Horse to get it into your living room.
    • piratearggghhh, on 10/12/2007, -6/+10It's more about choice for people who actually want a HD player. For the majority of people with standard def sets have no need for HDDVD and saves them $200 instead of bundling a BR player.
    • starbird, on 10/12/2007, -14/+3#
      negativefx by negativefx 2 minutes ago Block/Report this User
      [comment buried, show commenthide comment] + 0 diggs bury this digg this
      The $200 hike is only for the *philes who just have to have that extra clarity in their videos. I have a 50" 1080p and I can say that you can barely see a difference between BluRay and regular DVD on it (I saw it on display on my exact tv at circuit city).

      With Sony, they're forcing you to buy it.
      #
      djSyndrome by djSyndrome 1 minute ago Block/Report this User
      [comment buried, show commenthide comment] + 1 digg bury this digg this
      True, but the HD-DVD drive is optional. If you don't want it, you aren't forced to buy it (as you are with Blu-Ray). Sony is attempting to cram Blu-Ray down everyone's throats by using the PS3 as a Trojan Horse to get it into your living room.

      No one is forcing anyone to buy anything....

      And I understand your points, but that is the same mentality of folks comparing a $299 dell to an iMac. When you look at COMPARABLE systems, the PS3 and X-Box 360 are about equal.
    • stappawho, on 10/12/2007, -14/+17Especially considering that $600 PS3 has a lot more features. Wifi, Multi card reader, bigger HDD and HDMI(or does the HD-DVD add on have HDMI?).

      The equivalent PS3 costs $100 less.

      So the PS3 is a better deal.

      And the guy who said he can't tell the difference between Blu-ray and DVD needs to get his eyes checked.
    • aeproberts, on 10/12/2007, -5/+10The HD-DVD will not be used for games at all. It is just a cheap alternative to buying an actual player. The PS3 is forcing everyone to have the technology even if they don't want it.

      I have no desire to by the HD-DVD or Bluray until i figure which one will end up winning. I would rather wait and see.
    • iceperson, on 10/12/2007, -7/+10You should run down to the store and buy a PS3 then. oh wait...
    • ReCkLeSsX, on 10/12/2007, -7/+9You do still need to pay for Live at $50 a year in addition to the $400, though.
    • vandread, on 10/12/2007, -11/+7What all you Sony bashers is forgetting that Sony isn't Forcing you to buy their PS3 just like Microsoft isn't forcing you to buy their HD-DVD addon.

      So if you have to buy things you aren't forced to buy then they are both 600 bucks. If you don't buy things you aren't forced to buy then you don't have to pay anything.
    • latova, on 10/12/2007, -8/+2Insert another generic comment about not being forced to buy HD-DVD.
    • sakuraz, on 10/12/2007, -8/+5....all you guys saying "But Sony is FORCING us to use Blu-Ray"

      "But my Girlfriend wants COMMITMENT"

      Same thing.

      End result is marvelous.

      Stop friggin whinging
    • vandread, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5@sakuraz

      nah, its not the same thing, at least with blue ray you'll get something new. If you commit to your girlfriend you lose your soul.
    • andrewrchambers, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1"If you commit to your girlfriend you lose your soul"

      if you read the digg terms and conditions you'd know that you actually lost that upon registration
  • verifex, on 10/12/2007, -2/+13I belong on the gunna-wait-this-out, bandwagon still. When HD-DVD takes off, or whatever then count me in, until then I'll be happy with my DVDs.
    • starbird, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2good point. who knows what the real next gen format for movies will be. This "format war" or non event? I think it will help push digital download...
    • dancpsu, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5Digital download of HD movies is not going to be popular until the bandwidth is there. Bittorrent of double-compressed HD video is a pain so far, and with download you always have the possibility of accidentally deleting your purchase. D-VHS probably should have taken off since you can record and play through firewire, but people are used to their shiny discs.
    • Software2, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2Please tell me you didn't just say we should use VHS tapes.

      I don't care about any special recording methods. It's still a VHS tape.
  • dancpsu, on 10/12/2007, -3/+4I was thinking that $199 might get a standalone player, but it looks like $379 is the cheapest out there currently. This seems like a good deal after all.
  • friend18, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4I just wish there was hdmi. :( In 2012 or something hdcp will kick in the drive will be useless. :(
    • djSyndrome, on 10/12/2007, -1/+12In 2012 you're probably going to be watching SUPERHD-DVD MAX ALPHA++ on your XBox720. I wouldn't worry about it too much :)
    • rileyjt, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3In 2012, you will be able to buy a $20 HD disc player with more features than anything available today for any price.
  • JohnCrichton, on 10/12/2007, -15/+5not bad, $600 bucks for xbox360(not core) and HD-DVD with a remote and freaking movie, beat that Sony!
    • fani, on 10/12/2007, -5/+19Easy.
      $600 bucks for PS3, 60GB HDD, free PS3 live, builtin Wifi, HDMI, Blu Ray, SD/Multimedia card slots
    • Pissoff, on 10/12/2007, -15/+5Sony says, OK! $439 PS3, HDMI, HDD, and Blu-Ray in the box.

      Guess I'll get a game and a movie and still beat that $600.
    • djSyndrome, on 10/12/2007, -4/+11"Sony says, OK! $439 PS3, HDMI, HDD, and Blu-Ray in the box."

      Only if you live in Japan, genius.
    • djSyndrome, on 10/12/2007, -5/+5Wow, you *know* the Wapanese Sony Fanbois on Digg are out in force when you get modded down for stating that their ***** $439 pricepoint doesn't even apply to them.
    • ToRoE, on 10/12/2007, -5/+5@ fani. PS-3 live is free of charge from Sony, because they refuse to step up and manage it. Instead you will pay each developer the right to use thier server. so you will pay more, IMO.

      Xbox Live covers all games and is 3 years more mature. PS-3 live will suffer growing pains for more then a year, if you EVER get it. Where is that GT-4 live verison???

      (65% of all 360 owners use Xbox live!)
    • Dominatus, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5ugh...

      600 bucks for xbox with HD-DVD, remote and a DVD (that you may not want)

      compare it to the core 500 dollar PS3. The core PS3 has the HD playback but comes with HDMI, for 100 dollars cheaper, which gets you a remote and a DVD of your choice, plus it's all in one unit.

      Or compare it to the 600 dollar PS3. Has all of that, plus a media card reader, wifi (+100 for the xbox), hdmi and 40 more gigs of hdd.

      In terms of just gaming, the xbox offers a better deal, but as soon as you bring movies into the equation, the PS3 wins the round of what is cheaper.

      Btw, I have a 360 and probably will not be buying a PS3 until its
    • shredswithpiks, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1"(65% of all 360 owners use Xbox live!)"

      Is that gold or standard? because mostly everyone with a 360 should be on live for updates with the free account...
  • ZenMojo, on 10/12/2007, -13/+7So the PS3 Japanese price with Blu-Ray and HDMI and hard-drive is 439.

    The Xbox 360 with HD-DVD and NO HDMI is 600 dollars.

    WTF?
    • Pissoff, on 10/12/2007, -12/+7Exactly, yet look at the people getting in line to blow Bill and shell out that money.

      PS3 will dominate, tag my words.
    • dancpsu, on 10/12/2007, -10/+3PS3 isn't in stores yet. 360 prices will probably drop in November due to competition.
    • djSyndrome, on 10/12/2007, -4/+6@zenmojo: You're comparing American and Japanese prices; in Japan the 360+HDVD price combo is comparable to the PS3. Whoops, there goes your argument!

      @pissoff: just like everyone is getting in line to suck off Ken for the chance to pay a grand for Gran Turismo 4.5, slap Giant Enemy Crabs and go on an Afrikan safari? No thanks, I'll get my PS3 when Sony gets their ***** together.
    • aeproberts, on 10/12/2007, -10/+4Sony might be out of business within 4 years. They are in real financial troubles right now and will probably find more trouble down the road if Blu-ray "loses". With the exception of the Bravia line of LCD tvs it has been a long time since something has gone Sony's way.

      "If you asked me if Sony's strength in hardware was in decline, right now I guess I would have to say that might be true," game unit head Ken Kutaragi

      http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1895,2013675,00.asp
    • Lynn, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1The Japanese price of the 360 is 29,800 yen that includes Project Gotham Racing 3 and Ninety-Nine Nights. The HD-DVD drive will be 19,800 yen.

      360 + Project Gotham Racing 3 and Ninety-Nine Nights + HD-DVD = 49600 yen.
      PS3 Core + NO GAMES = 49980 yen.
  • mlock2k, on 10/12/2007, -2/+0any spects out yet how do you guys think it will look? they are not going to upsize anything are they ?
  • jhuebel, on 10/12/2007, -13/+16This is a great move by Microsoft. Frankly, Microsoft's backing of HD-DVD on the XBox 360 adds a major victory for the HD-DVD camp. Consider the current status of the competing formats:

    HD-DVD:

    * HD-DVD player(s) are half the price of Blu-Ray players ($500 vs $1000+)
    * addon for an extremely popular console system at a low price for emerging technology
    * larger number of movie titles than Blu-Ray
    * "HD-DVD" is better understood to be "high definition" DVD, but there is also a better chance of consumers mistaking HD-DVD discs for standard DVD

    Blu-Ray:

    * Blu-Ray players are twice the price of HD-DVD component players
    * PS3 will include Blue Ray, but won't be released until November (if Sony is lucky)
    * Fewer movie titles than HD-DVD, reportedly lower quality video (on average) than HD-DVD
    * The name "Blue-Ray" doesn't translate to "high definition" DVD in the average consumer's mind
    • djSyndrome, on 10/12/2007, -10/+8Modded you up for realizing that Sony just might not be able to get the PS3 out this year after all. Don't know why more people don't see this as a possibility.
    • Topher06, on 10/12/2007, -10/+11All you have to say is:

      Blu-ray = proprietary garbage created by Sony, a historical loser when it comes to media formats.
    • jhuebel, on 10/12/2007, -7/+9Don't get me wrong, I'm not a Sony-hater by any means. They make good stuff. It just seems that they've bungled many aspects of both Blu-Ray and PS3. Pricing is a major thing against them, considering HD-DVD's cost-of-entry is half that of Blu-Ray.
    • kbrower, on 10/12/2007, -6/+18to me both blu-ray and hd-dvd are a waste of money
    • mt066, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3I was wondering if the name blu ray would be a factor too. However, most of the major (non techie) news outlets keep reporting this as a vhs vs betamax thing. It's all they keep saying, like a broken record. So I think it will be more of a herd mentality thing. Average Joe's_only_concern is buying a useless movie box. Nothing to do with the varying technical features of either.
    • dancpsu, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6The first one to have a $99 player will win. The formats are similar enough to where it won't matter to the consumer. They just don't want to have to shell out $500 for a player.
    • WhereAmI, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4wasn't there an article on digg that actually SHOWED PS3's getting packed?
      hmm that seems like proof that some are done, and are in the packaging.
      today is september 27th, practically october, PS3's will be shipped from the factory near end of oct or early nov and end up in stores around nov 10th
      PS3 is coming. Deal with it.
      *Note: Blu-Ray has Disney, a HUGE market there.
    • neoCorp, on 10/12/2007, -6/+0hey who wouldn't like a PS3 for christmas...seriously...nobody knows how funny this business world moves but i believe Sony is gonna be every body's Santa this Christmas.
      It will be a surprise...believe me i know how this world moves!!!
    • Rayonic, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5HD-DVD really does have a name advantage over Blu-Ray.

      I didn't think so at first, but I've seen lots of people (and news articles) confuse the two. They say stuff like "PS3 has an HD-DVD drive" or "Sony calls their HD-DVD format 'Blu-Ray' "
    • negativenancy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Great, great more people know and identify with the term "HD-DVD"... however, which format has more studio support? You know I always thought people buy the formats with the most content on them... is there an exception this time?

      Until HD-DVD has more support than Blu Ray it is going to lose
    • HappyScrappy, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3By Xmas, there will be more BluRay titles than HD-DVD. This is because there are more movie studios/distributors backing BluRay than HD-DVD.

      I don't get the people who say they're backing HD-DVD because Sony is going it alone. It is Toshiba that is literally going it alone with HD-DVD. BluRay has broad backing.

      HD-DVD has a tough uphill battle with as little backing as they have.

      We'll see though.
  • wurzelgummage, on 10/12/2007, -4/+7The choice of movie says a lot. Much like "audiophiles" who listen to Coldplay, the "home cinema" people watch garbage like the new King Kong and Wild Wild West.

    I'll stick with my divx of the (colourized version!) 1933 King Kong, thanks.
    • s-m-a-c-k, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2hahaha... I like ColdPlay...
    • kidc, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4Hey I wondering if instead of getting "King Kong" as the movie if they could just come to my house and kick me in the nuts and take my $200, because that sounds like a better deal...
    • kidc, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Hey I was wondering if instead of getting "King Kong" as the movie if they could just come to my house and kick me in the nuts and take my $200, because that sounds like a better deal...

      (digg comment editing system is screwed, excuse my last post please)
  • eneshelon, on 10/12/2007, -14/+2when i think blue-ray, i think any type of ray species is bad. look what they did to good ol' Steve Irwin! they stab at the souls of the good people. no way would i wanna buy a product that does that??
  • trc0, on 10/12/2007, -7/+5So are game developers going to pumping out games on HD-DVD discs or is the drive going to be limited to just movies? If games that require the HD-DVD add-on drive start coming out for the 360, whats the difference between this and what Sony is doing by shoving the Blu-Ray down our throat?
    • wurzelgummage, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7Only a fool developer who wanted to lose money would make their games require the HD-DVD drive. Unless they made a specific FMV filled type of game, for those customers.
    • aeproberts, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6Just movies accoridng to MS
    • krewenki, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2I'm willing to bet that you won't see that happen. The only reason would be a game that spanned multiple dvd's being consolidated onto one HD DVD, and I think you'd see them just span DVD's to reach the widest audience.
    • rileyjt, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2No 360 game will ever require HD DVD.
    • jacenat, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1i don't understand why you all are so sure about this.
      ut2k4 requires a full, one layer dvd (4.6gig) and came out about 2 years ago. not to mention that ue2 engine restrictions reguarding texture size and multi texturing is very obvious.

      in future games, it will be very very easy to create massive ammounts of content, so games will bump up to the capacity of two layer dvds in this generation ... i'll say 3 years ... but what do i know.
  • ryangravener, on 10/12/2007, -9/+8PS3 is a better deal. You get wifi and a functional operating system.
    • s-m-a-c-k, on 10/12/2007, -5/+9functional operating system... i don't get it, is this some stab at Windows 95 or something...

      BTW how do you know its functional, seeing how its not out yet?
    • djSyndrome, on 10/12/2007, -4/+6Not only is it (the PS3) not out yet, but Sony is still refusing to show the interface to the public. At eight weeks until launch, Microsoft was showing off its 360 Dashboard off on Xbox.com, and even Nintendo has some short videos of the Wii's interface and features at wii.com.

      Hmmmm.
    • s-m-a-c-k, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5dj interface footage showed up recently, but it was rough... over the half of the features weren't even enabled/mocked-up... it's virtually identical to the PSP interface...
    • AlexMax, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6Looking at Sony's track record for the PS2, a functional operating system doesn't do a whole lot when you have to replace your system every year or two.
    • deadbaby, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5The PS3 can run Linux. (and there are rumors they will ship the Linux distro with every PS3)
    • ryangravener, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0Why bash the system if its not already out? I think 600 dollars is worth it for a console that will have wifi, blue-ray, linux, a controller that senses motion, and a more powerful processor than a 360. Microsoft released the xbox after the ps2 and released the xbox 360 before the ps3. Sony's only flaw is that they always want to use their proprietary format, but at the time there was no dominant format so they went with blu-ray. I think all you 360 people feel bad that you spent your hard earned money on a microsoft product and now you can't afford the latest and greatest technology.
  • chriskzoo, on 10/12/2007, -6/+12360+HD-DVD+Live =$650
    PS3 (incl. Blu-Ray and free online play) = $600

    Can people stop bitching about the price of the PS3 now?
    • ahhell, on 10/12/2007, -8/+6PS3....no movie...no remote
      There's your $50 difference.
    • angelp, on 10/12/2007, -5/+9What so many people fail to realize is that Microsoft is not forcing you to pay for their next-gen format....Sony is. You have no choice but to pay the premium for a format that may not win. At least you have a choice with the 360.
    • aeproberts, on 10/12/2007, -3/+9I don't want Blu-ray or HD-DVD until one wins.

      360 (going down to 349.99) + Live = $400
      PS3=$600

      plus it is all good that online is free, but the PS2 online system sucked. I am staying away from the PS3 until the online service proves itself.
    • chriskzoo, on 10/12/2007, -2/+12@angelp
      The fallacy in your argument is that Sony is not forcing Blu-Ray on you for movies, they are simply using Blu-Ray for their games and the fact that it can play Blu-Ray movies is a bonus. Games like Resistance: Fall of Man are already using upwards of 20GB, only possible on a hi density medium like Blu-Ray or HD-DVD. If Blu-Ray wins out, bonus - you have a Blu-Ray player. If it doesn't, you only lose something if you buy Blu-Ray movies (I will rent, personally).

      The morale of the story is this: While the success of Blu-Ray could be dependent on the PS3, the success of PS3 as a gaming machine are in no way tied to the success of Blu-Ray as a movie format.
    • aeproberts, on 10/12/2007, -10/+1If Bluray Fails then Sony will probably goin out of business.As I mentioned above, they are in real financial trouble right now. They have freely admitted that the future of their company is tied up in the PS3 and Bluray.
    • stappawho, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7"PS3 (incl. Blu-Ray and free online play) = $600"

      Actually, that's only $500.
    • chriskzoo, on 10/12/2007, -0/+10@aeproberts
      Sony has $9B in cash in the bank - I would hardly call that "financial troubles." Sure, they have stumbled as of late, but they have a buffer.
    • Rayonic, on 10/12/2007, -3/+3How do you know that Resistance: Fall of Man is 20gb of actual game? There's probably a bunch of MPEG2-compressed movies or some uncompressed audio on there.
    • icealchemist, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4@aeproberts

      You mean like when betamax failed? Correct me if I am wrong, but Sony still is a company right? This is much the same thing. If BluRay fails, Sony will still be around.
  • pyrates, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8And I wonder how long it will take the hardware hacking community to mod this so that you can hook it up to your PC instead of having to pay a grand for a HDDVD drive for the pc.
    • s-m-a-c-k, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4if MS is smart I bet there will be a Vista driver that supports it, they did this with the Live Camera and the Joysticks (native PC Support, that is). It will be the greatest business move to push the HD-DVD format...
    • AlexMax, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3@s-m-a-c-k

      You're not quite getting the pricing here. The Xbox 360 controllers and webcams are priced because they're just as expensive, or perhaps a little bit more, than their non 360-components. A 200 dollar HD-DVD player is a steal, and I can't imagine Microsoft doing this without wanting you to purchase a $300-400 Xbox 360 first.
    • s-m-a-c-k, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3@AlexMax

      Good Point. But I am looking at MS's strategy of years past, which has always been to become a market leader... If Sony never mentioned Blu-Ray as being the lynch-pin to their success MS would have never pushed a HD-DVD drive for the XBOX (remember Internet Explorer and Netscape)... MS always touted the XBOX as its gateway device, and in many points it has seceded, so much so that it is now pushing the success back to the PC, the Live anywhere model, cross platform gaming/communication, and the "Windows Games" campaign for example... The purpose of HD-DVD is to "stick it to Sony", its a good-ole-fashioned format war and MS won't play "fair"...

      But there will be a HD-DVD driver released, most probably by some hardware hackers like Team Xecuter. MS will see the popularity that ensues and acquiesce releasing an official driver (still waiting on native divx support, but Transcode360 does the trick)... in many instances the 360 is the acquiesce of MS to the gaming community on a grand scale... the majority of the 360's features were underground-fan favorites, emulators to media players...
  • TonyCubed, on 10/12/2007, -9/+4Well, if we are all going to get the tape measures out and measure our e-penises, then let me point something else out....

    Xbox360+Live+HD-DVD = $649
    PS3 (With Blu-Ray)+ Free on Line play = $600..

    Now! Let's say Blu-Ray fails and HD-DVD becomes the format Winner

    PS3+Free online Play + HD-DVD Players (Maybe a addon at a later date? If Blu-Ray fails)... = $900-$1000+

    Key thing! You don't have to buy the HD-DVD player! :D
  • neiltc13, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3Here ≠ North America.
  • fatnutz, on 10/12/2007, -13/+11OMG I quit Digg.

    PS3 fanboys are using multiple card readers as a feature

    You kids are so ***** stupid and so full of your own *****, the majority of you are ***** iditos to the core, ***** this place, i'm goin home!>
    • sakuraz, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3?!???

      What's wrong?

      360, you gotta buy a separate memory card

      PS3, you can use your own memory cards to save, which means less accesories

      But if you think about it, where's that feature in 20GB PS3?

      does this mean cheaper PS3 now has a REAL gimped feature?!?
    • cal01, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5Don't let the door hit you on the way out!!

      (But seriously, there's probably less PS3 fanpeople than the others.)
    • stappawho, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1"But if you think about it, where's that feature in 20GB PS3?

      does this mean cheaper PS3 now has a REAL gimped feature?!?"

      No, it both PS3's have 4 USB ports, so you can use any USB storage device.
  • petrman, on 10/12/2007, -5/+3The Sony people that keep throwing the PS3 live crap out there it took xbox a software company a few years to get live where it is now. Sony's doesn't have software figured out. Listen to all the reports about the development tools given from microsoft hell even you can download them. Then you here the reports about how Sony has lackluster development tools for there developers. Worst case scenario for Sony Bluray fails, and there online play falters. Then what do you get for 600 bucks?
    • chriskzoo, on 10/12/2007, -1/+9Problem is, most gamers only want 2 things from Sony:
      -Unified ID
      -Free online play

      If they offer that, many people will think long and hard about paying $50 a year for Live.
    • Qenton, on 10/12/2007, -3/+3If Sony offers free online play then Microsoft will probably start offering free online play to keep in the game.
      Of course Sony will only offer free online play if they are loosing the battle with 360 and thus Microsoft might just laugh at there money loosing endeavor. (Lots of if's here, anything can happen in the game of console wars)
  • clownbaby, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2Good luck trying to wait out this "war" between Blu-Ray and HD-DVD to see who "wins". Neither of them will become the next standard video format. HD only has a niche crowd whereas the majority of people still have standard def television sets. It's nothing more than what I would call a "transitional video format". Laserdisc anyone? And then we had DVD. Neither Blu-Ray or HD-DVD will last.
  • petrman, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6Oh and I like my controllers to shake dammit
  • kirashira, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3how long till Microsoft includes the HD-DVD in the 360.
  • herogear, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4All I know is this - I just want something to play games on. The XBox 360 is finally establishing itself and making the 399 price justifiable. The PS3 is unproven at how fun or great the games will be and sells at 599.

    Thank goodness MS doesn't force those who just want to play games to pay an extra 200, and then claim they're doing US a favor "because HD-DVD players are much more expensive than 399 + 200." Which is, you know, exactly what Sony is telling me...

    And if you're getting a console for the DVD playback - 600 for one that has a remote, and stuff bundled in on HD-DVD, or one that will possibly be stock, stand-alone and Blu-Ray? I mean, both as HD players will be the same exact price, so anyone thumbing a nose to MS now and feeling validated by Sony's price point should get their collective heads in check.
  • deadbaby, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3I'm waiting until I can get an all-in-one unit /w HDMI/1080P. I can't stand clunky add-on devices -- the 360 is big enough already.
  • jizzatch, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7It looks like most of these comments miss a major point. It is not just about 360 v. PS3, but it's also about 360 w/ HD-DVD vs. BD or HD-DVD stand alone player. There are many out there that already have a 360 and are considering a standalone BD or HD DVD player, which cost between $500-1000. For those that already have a 360, it is much more economical to get the addon for $200 for the 360, than to buy the standalone player.
  • ASSASSYN, on 10/12/2007, -5/+3Attack of the sony fanboys. I knew you guys weren`t far away! Meanwhile on Xbox-live...
  • Goya, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1If HD-DVD is the winner of the next format, I will have the option to upgrade WHEN and IF I ready. And as slow/poor as I am there might already be a price drop from $200 in over a year.

    Glad I have the option.
  • Lou3000, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2In the end, PS3 and Xbox360 are close in price. And extra 50 or 100 dollars is not that big of a deal. If you buy an XBox360, you can get the upgrades to make it a PS3. The ONLY thing that the Xbox360 doesn't have right now is an HDMI connection (unless you count PS3's motion sensing, but that is balanced out by 360s vibration).

    All of the arguing back and forth is worthless. Neither is that much better than the other. In the end, I'm buying a 360 because I don't want a BluRay player nor an HD DVD player, and it may be mid 2007 before I get a PS3. There aren't any games that I have to have for either system.
  • jer.williams, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1Are we sure this drive doesn't have an HDMI port? I'd find it surprising if a company so invested in DRM would release an HD DVD drive that didn't support HDCP (as much as I'd like it, since my projector doesn't have an HDMI input).
    • sakuraz, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Read HDCP as High Definition Crippling Practise

      it's the greed of Microsoft, they wanted to cut costs, so they ended up here.
    • shredswithpiks, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1from my understanding microsoft is going to release a new AV cable set with HDMI on it. :/
  • glucoseboy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2So, can I hook it up to my PC?
  • SuMizzle, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4I love the whole BR vs. HD-DVD "capacity" argument. We all woke up one day and the format we've played games on for years no longer cuts it. Somehow, games have grown so large with content, DVDs are useless. I mean, look at how many 2 and 3 disc 360 games there currently are. BR is the answer. The only answer. Never-mind the branding sucks. Never-mind the cost. Never-mind the production issues. Sony says you need it. Like you needed UMD and MicroMV. They should also display the amount of GBs the disc is holding, right next to the ESRB rating. I mean it matters so much, it should be printed on the package.
    • Nobi-Wan, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2You, my friend, have posted the most rational comment I've seen on Digg in a long, long time.

      I still don't understand how we've been using DVD formats for years and doing it fine but all the sudden when the PS3 arrives we NEED Blu-ray and games have suddenly TRIPLED and QUADRUPLED in size. Yeah, that makes sense.
    • CanadianGeese, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Just Cause, though it's not a very good game, is 250,000 acres of explorable landscape, and it fits nicely on one DVD.

      Having up to 50gb available on one disk isn't a bad thing, but it's not a necessity either.

      I would much rather have great gameplay on 720p than have janky gameplay on 1080p.

      I think Sony is right... 1080p is the future. However, I don't think that future is now.
  • godfa7h3r, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Can someone clairify this for me. It sounds like HD-DVD will either play in 1080p or 480p if you don't have a 1080p capable display. What about 720p and 1080i? Will the 360 be able to play HD-DVD movies at those resolutions? Or am I stuck with 480p? Because that is no different from current DVDs. Thanks
  • UberC, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3This actually makes the 360 look bad because people will start comparing it to ps3. Whereas before it was 200 dollars cheaper. At the same price ps3 gives you 3x the hdd, hdmi, wifi and memory card readers, and games published on higher capacity disks. No to mention ps3 has free online and microsoft is 50 dollars annually.
    • GiveItASqueeze, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1you arn't forced to buy it. and 360 has all the games people want to play. PS3 has... Metal Gear Solid 4 (granted, i'm really excited about this game, but im sure as hell not going to pay $600 to play it) Name 5 other exclusive games that people are excited about on the PS3.... you cant. cuz all the have are tech demo's, impressive tech demos, but still, they're not intresting.

      Xbox 360: Dead Rising, Gears of War, Halo 3, Oblivion, Call of duty 2, Bio-shock, F.E.A.R, Saints Row, the list goes on and on...
  • GrayOne, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2Please explain to me why everyone loves HDMI and DVI. There is no real benefit to them over VGA and Component. The only "benefit" you get with HDMI and DVI is a maximum cable length of 10 feet and DRM. I use component and VGA in my LCD projector setup. My cable box and DVD player are on a single 25 foot component cable and my PC is on a 50ft VGA cable. They both look spectacular.

    I had a friend that insisted that DVI was so much clearer because anything that is digital must be better. So I moved my cable box to the middle of the room, under my projector, and used that thick, unwieldy, expensive, short DVI cable to view HD. I then switched back to component. What do you know... There was no discernible difference.

    The difference between DVIHDMI and Component is like the difference between 87 octane gas and 89 octane gas, that is there is no real difference in performance but a huge hit in price.

    Don't get me started on assholes that try to convince me they can "hear the difference" between optical and coaxial audio cables.
    • shredswithpiks, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2once new media starts requiring HDCP for hi def playback you might change your story... it's all about compatibility, and HDMI is going to be useful for a much longer time.
    • HappyScrappy, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1I cannot see any quality difference between HDMI and component on a good setup.

      There shouldn't be any difference.

      The big difference is almost no TVs will do 1080p over anything but HDMI, even those that do 1080P at all. Virtually none will do it over component, and the vast majority will not do it over VGA either.

      Additionally, as you can see, the DVD CCA and AACS put arbititrary restrictions on outputting upscaled DVD and HD-DVD content over component. Also in the future, if the image constraint token takes off you will not be able to see HD-DVDs over component at over 852x480 resolution.

      HDMI is the smart solution for HD content, because it doesn't have abritrary limitations forced upon it by the industry. If MS really wanted to be a player in the prerecorded HD content battle, they would have put HDMI on 360, like Sony has on all PS3s.
    • stappawho, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1"e only "benefit" you get with HDMI and DVI is a maximum cable length of 10 feet and DRM"

      You can have cables longer than 10 feet.

      Like the others have said, HDMI is HDCP compatable so it's Future proof if studios decide to start implementing the ICT(which I hope they don't). It also allows for one simple plug instead of 5, in turn making the cable smaller. HDMI isn't expensive either, just look around(ie. don't buy Monster Cable).

      Also, HDMI(1.3) will allow Dolby HD and TrueHD and supposedly will allow for a better picture. So HDMI has some benefits, which will increase in the future, but at the moment it really doesn't offer much.
  • dissident, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2In 5 years flash drives will be so cheap and hold so much capacity that they could replace all discs as the new medium. For now I doubt I'll get either until the burners are selling for $50.

    I don't like the tactics RIAA and MPAA are using.. I vote with my wallet.
    • GiveItASqueeze, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1i kina agree. if youve ever done video editing you know that you never use a flash drive to save and share your media. the sound gets out of sync way too easly and USB is too much of an open divice. its a neat though tho.

      But your are right. FLash drives are plummiting in price. So long as they fix the syncing problemm, it be pretty cool to spend maybe... $7.99 on a USB movie?
  • shredswithpiks, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3this and the free fix on my blinking red lights... makes me pretty happy.

    smart move, the only reason I'll buy it instead of a standalone HD DVD player is for the free movie. :)
  • Koolice, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2the 360 will have native 1080p games, peter moore said today.
  • inkubux, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1mmmmm wait a minute.. what if a chinease company build a really cheap adaptor so it works on you pc? It suddenly become really interesting
  • Slybri, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2This is great! I was expecting it to be 250$. Now I can spend the extra 50$ on some HD-DVDs to play on the thing. I've already got a remote control though (Logitech Harmony 360) and I didn't like King Kong. If they could have left those things out and lowered it to 175$ that would rock. But hey, it's still cheaper than I thought it would be.
    Any word on a release date?

  • ka0tic, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1I would only buy this if Microsoft decides to start making games on HD-DVD's. I mean its a peripheral that pretty much has nothing to do with xbox 360 games. Its almost like if SEGA sold the Sega Genesis and said "Hey we now have a VCR attatchment for the genesis. Buying this attachment is cheaper and smaller than a regular bulky VCR".
  • tastypastry, on 10/12/2007, -4/+3Sony isnt forcing Blu-Ray on anyone. So what if the PS3 is a Blu-Ray player. Blu-Ray is a good medium for games.
    • GiveItASqueeze, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1yea they are... unless there's a ps3 without a blu-ray player that i dont know about...
      microsoft is the one not forceing the attatchment. if you dont buy it, you can still play 100% of all xbox 360 games

      sony on the other hand.... $600 for a blu-ray player i might not even use.
  • ScottPictures, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1If MS is smart they will have the premium 360 with the HD DVD drive built in from now on. And still sell the add on. Developers will know that everyone will have the drive from now on and if you don't and a game comes out that requires it, that you really, want you can buy it.
    • GiveItASqueeze, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Microsoft said that they arn't going to force people to buy the HD-DVD drive. Just like they havent forced you to buy the hard drive (although almost no one bought the core system) they gave you that choice. 100% of all xbox 360 games work with or without the hard drive, and the same will go for the HD-DVD drive. Thats why love the xbox 360, its such a customisable console. if you only want to spend $300 bucks just to only play xbox 360 games, you can do that. Microsoft wont let a developer release an HD-DVD game. Because that would not let a select audience play that game. Even if 80% of all 360 owners have the HD-DVD drive thats still tens of thousands of gamers who cant play the game, simply because they cant afford it. And thats just not fair. Thats why FF:XI and Zelda: Four Swords didnt catch on like they should have. It just cost too much to have fun. No one wanted to pay $99 (FF:XI) for a game last year, and slapping the words "Blu-ray" on a game isn't going to make that price any more appealing.
    • ScottPictures, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I said the premium should include the HD DVD drive. If you didn't want it, you could purchase the basic.
  • TheXeno, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2To those that think HD media is a niche market:

    http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/14.06/hidef.html

    (it's quickly changing)
  • Zoxy, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1See the the reason why Sony will have the advantage in the format wars is that by the end of 2006 there will be around 2 million potential blue ray customers just with the PS3 alone not including the stand alone model. Ofcourse, a large percentage do not have a HDTV be they know that 2 million people with have that capability.

    And also
    "360+HD-DVD+Live =$650
    PS3 (incl. Blu-Ray and free online play) = $600"

    People are forgeting that xbox live is 50 A YEAR. But if your just planing on playing games online for just a year then you would be right. But if you play for the life of the console lets say 4-6 years then its more like:

    360+HD-DVD+Live =$800-900
    PS3 (incl. Blu-Ray and free online play) = $600

    And we are comparing ps3's top system to 360's top system when the 360's would be more comparable to the basic ps3.

    360+HD-DVD+Live =$800-900
    PS3 (incl. Blu-Ray and free online play) = $500
  • mobilehavoc, on 10/12/2007, -4/+2Not to beat a dead horse but difference between Xbox 360 and PS3 HD options...

    Xbox 360 - you decide
    PS3 - Sony decides for you.

    I personally don't like other people deciding for me, but that's just me.
  • akshay626, on 10/12/2007, -3/+2"Not to beat a dead horse but difference between Xbox 360 and PS3 HD options...

    Xbox 360 - you decide
    PS3 - Sony decides for you.

    I personally don't like other people deciding for me, but that's just me."

    Not to beat a dead horse but the 360's HD drive will do nothing to impove it gaming. All PS3 games will be Blu-ray which means they can have up to 50GB storage space. 360 games are DVD which only hold 5GB. Funny thing is they both are going to cost the same.

    And supposing that HD-DVD doesn't become the standard, you will have a $200 XBox360 peripheral paperweight. And even if they both become accepted formats, good luck trying to watch Spiderman 3 on your HD-DVD drive :)
    • SuMizzle, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1There's a flip side to that argument and some of your information flat out wrong...How does BR improve gaming? Do the games load faster? Are the visuals better? 50GB? Try 25...single layer. 360 games are 9GB in capacity, not 5 and the content of the games are actually quite larger (psss! They use compression...pass it on) Cost the same? In what way? retail cost? manufacturing costs? It's no secret Blu-Ray costs more to manufacture than HD-DVD or DVD and retail costs of movies is about the same for BR/HD-DVD media. And supposing HD-DVD isn't the standard...since you have a choice with the 360 to make the jump to HD movies, you don't have to buy the add-on. So I guess you would not be affected if it failed. But what if Blu-Ray fails? Now you have a $600 paperweight that no amount of Spidey flicks could save. I mean, Spiderman 2 did a hell of a lot for the PSP and UMD.
    • GiveItASqueeze, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1"All PS3 games will be Blu-ray which means they can have up to 50GB storage space. 360 games are DVD which only hold 5GB. Funny thing is they both are going to cost the same."

      First off a single layer Blu-ray holds 30GB of storage space. But anyways...Why the hell do you need 50GB of storage? Ovlivion, one of the largest games ever made, only takes up a measly 4GB. And its a HUGE i mean HUGE game. Most games barely take up half that.
      And Blu-ray games are expected to be priced between $60 and $99. i dont know about you but i dont remember spending that much on a 360 game...
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