What is Digg?85 Comments
- jeszus, on 10/12/2007, -14/+51Hey if you don't like it don't buy it problem solved. Stop complaining about what it doesn't have.
- dolemite5005, on 10/12/2007, -2/+31"Take a look at the epoxy surrounding the CPU and GPU which is intended to prevent the BGA connection from popping as the board warps. This has to be one of the funniest things I have ever seen."
This guy really needs to get out more - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -7/+30Please dont game on wifi, your lag ruins the experience for everyone.
- readme, on 10/12/2007, -2/+20"Is it truly a 65nm core? I wouldn't put my neck out and say it is for certain but what little inspection we have done seems to point to a good possibility it is."
No it's not. They would have made an effort to make that known if so. - wageslaven, on 10/12/2007, -6/+22Very good article, thanks. A revised motherboard was expected. There are what, like 20 versions of the PS2 MB?
Continuous improvement is normal, you'll see they also shrunk some compontents, that should help keep the heat down. - theonlyvlad, on 10/12/2007, -9/+24@cygnus
-- the HDDVD drive is left out because they don't want to lock consumer into format. DVDs are more than fine for games (besides, no game maker would make HDDVD game if it was only one xbox sku that had it)
And when (if) BluRay wins next gen war, you'll be glad you aren't stuck with the useless drive. (and can possibly buy a similar blu-ray addon) - wageslaven, on 10/12/2007, -4/+18@logicbomb
@DarkJC
Are you two experts in compontent setting? Experts in Electronics Engineering? Circuit Design or Manufacture?
You two are exactly the kind of empty-headed know-nothings that make the Internets stupid. Your looking at the Mainboard of the XBox 360, a piece of hardware designed and sold by one of the largest technology companies on the planet. A mainboard that is now, as we see, in Revision #2. _IF_ the "motherboard warping and causing the components to lift" is _actually_ a problem you can be damn well certain that Microsoft _KNOWS_ about it.
Do you think they change their manufacturing setup, make those changes ARBITRARILY? That they just think "hey, lets just drop some glue on there and hope it does something-or-other"?
Inspite of what the irrational haters on this website think, Microsoft's console has no more or less failures than any comparable product. Microsoft is renouned for its hardware. Do you think they would deliver some kind of lemon then try and pretend like its "ok"? They have said they are getting 2-3% failure - about normal for the industry.
You invent an entire mythology around Microsoft and its products, then, when you see a change of some type, say "Oh, that wont fix the ***** problem I ALSO INVENTED from my interweb surfing".
Give your head a shake. - geminitojanus, on 10/12/2007, -0/+10Not to mention that the pictures of the cores show no signs that it's even a different silicon version (all of the chips are identically sized, meaning no 65nm, and even the coupling capacitor layouts didn't change, which makes me think it's the same silicon revision, but without uncapping them you can't know for sure). The main differences between the two boards looks to be new inductors, a few less voltage regulators (brings down the cost maybe a buck), smaller capacitors, and one chip change from a LQFP to a BGA module (the video scalar chip for HDMI support). Shame they didn't show the bottom side of the board.
All-in-all I'd call it a minor board revision. - xraycat, on 10/12/2007, -1/+11Actually you can get an HDMI cable for about $8, shipped. Just check out Monoprice.com.
- BobsYourUncle, on 10/12/2007, -1/+10I'm surprised by how much I prefer the look of the standard white controller to the new Elite black one.
- Derter, on 10/12/2007, -2/+11Truly cool they put the original HD/SD cable in the box. (I don't need it since I use a VGA cable but new buyer may not have hdmi..)
- rdrr, on 10/12/2007, -2/+10Don't forget the epoxy... :-P
- serpentor, on 10/12/2007, -2/+10"Our first pleasant surprise is a Hitachi GDR-3120L FK78 DVD drive inside. I was hoping not to see a BENQ drive as there are no flashing utilities available at the moment so there is no ability to replace the DVD drive or use this as a parts motherboard. Extracting the drive key from this unit wont be a problem!"
Am I the only surprised that Microsoft didn't use the currently non-hackable and quieter BENQ drive in the Elite? - jull1234, on 10/12/2007, -4/+12100 more GB on the hdd and an HDMI port!? Well worth $80
- Xpoc, on 10/12/2007, -6/+13I love their quick fix of the cpu and gpu problem with the epoxy. Top notch work. I hope this fixes the problem though in all seriousness. I just pray my refurb doesn't get the ring...out of warranty.
- Diggtatorship, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7I found it interesting that they didn't bother to take any pictures of the outside of the console. These guys are true geeks.
- dvddesign, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8I hope someone can figure out some sort of firmware/format hack now that there's two models of HDD out on the market. Maybe we can get this 120GB HDD upgrade on our own..
- brandf, on 10/12/2007, -3/+9@wageslaven
I totally agree. Those guys dont have a clue. bitch bitch bitch. - SteveMax, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6A smaller core would be, well... smaller. A reduction in the lythographic process gives you a reduced silicon area per core (look at 180mm and 130nm Athlon XPs, where the core was exposed).
That core is exposed, and you can see in the animated GIF that it's the same size as the previous one. So, no reduction. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7Sorry i skipped that part Hitachi GDR-3120L FK78 DVD drive inside !! Thats a pretty loud drive when spinning disc's. What happened to the quieter BenQ that was installed in the 07 line up of the Premium ? ??
So am i to assume M$ are indeed looking at a software update to quiet the Hitachi Drive ? Not putting the BenQ in that is known to be less noise bothering
in the premium and not the Elite makes no sense. Who can you call it the ELITE when the premium has the better less quieter Disc Tray ?
I have the Hitachi and it sounds like a freaking surface to air missile taking off inside my house - ThinkRad, on 10/12/2007, -6/+10^------Thank you tacklebox. WiFi in a game console ought to be for downloading ONLY. Ever play Halo 2 and see someone's name get grayed out a bunch of times? If you ask them why - 9 times out of 10 it's cuz they're playing over WiFi.
- doubletrance, on 10/12/2007, -3/+7if it runs quieter than my Boeing 747-XBOX360 in my living room than i'm sold.
- LogicBomB, on 10/12/2007, -7/+11So instead of fixing a problem, they glued it down. Amazing.
- jull1234, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6FTA: "Our first pleasant surprise is a Hitachi GDR-3120L FK78 DVD drive inside."
- jull1234, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Oh yeah, and it supports HDCP which is required to view HDDVD movies at over 480p if the disc has a particular flag set.
- smokespliffz, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3@ profingersk8er
don't ***** buy it then you tit - kettlehead, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4Honestly, why do you want a less reliable connection when the only benefit of it is mobility if it's a stationary device? WiFi is seldom - and in this case most certainly not - the answer.
- craig4, on 10/12/2007, -5/+8the price difference is huge?
premium system - 399.99
elite system - 479.99
About a 80 dollar difference and you get HDMI and 120gb HDD, which I believe is about a 80 dollar difference seeing as how the 120gb HDD is going to sell for over 100 dollars by it self.
That's just my opinion though. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -4/+6i game over wifi and my ping rate is usually as low if not lower than those who connect via wired networking
- jull1234, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2HDMI is good because it takes Audio and Video over one cable. Its good for people who's tv cannot accept a 1080p signal over anything but HDMI. These are the only real advantages I've heard of.
- bj00rn, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2As an engineer working with electronic circuitry which has to perform reliable under harsh conditions I can tell you that Llamma.com's ridicule of the epoxy is way off target, both ignorant and childish. It is common in my industry to sometimes saturate electronic components to make equipment more reliable, and it's not necessarily a "quick fix" per se. F.ex. last year we had a problem with the motherboard from one of our suppliers which was placed inside a sensitive servo actuator under harsh conditions. But after they filled the _entire_ motherboard with epoxy (Yeah, I guess it _looked_ funny... :) ) the actuators have actually performed _flawlessly_ ever since.
- SpaceNinjaDino, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3Outstanding article. It includes sought after information from my friends and I. Best gaming hardware article I've seen in a long time.
- hakujin, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3'Best value to date' and 'Microsoft spares no expense and included a nice HDMI cable'. Who are these jokesters kidding? A HDMI cable can be had for less than $5. How about internal WiFi or a cheaper HD-DVD add on? Taking games out of the equation as 360 has the obvious library edge, the PS3 is the better deal w/ bluray, internal wireless, and support for any HDD size I'd even speculate and say the HDMI doesn't even confrom to 1.3 spec. Pass go... Sony, hurry the hell up and release some quality titles so I can pick the better deal... for A/V enthusiasts anyway.
- jacksons98, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3I'd even argue depending on the games you like PS3 has a better line up for games. It already has the best fighting games and racing games. Second it has access to the largest library of games available many of which are classics and can be picked up now for $19 or less.
- AgntOrnge, on 10/12/2007, -5/+6MS stated that they don't feel wi-fi is something everyone uses, and in my case they are correct. So they figured why add additional cost to the system by including it. I have my wireless AP in the living room so there aren't cables running everywhere.
- GatorLCA, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I bought my WiFi adapter on eBay for $50 and it works perfectly. I"'m surprised people complain so much at paying $100 for an adapter. Most of us know there are ways of paying cheaper than retail over the net
- rderveloy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1@wageslaven
"Are you two experts in compontent setting? Experts in Electronics Engineering? Circuit Design or Manufacture?"
-Normally, my brain doesn't let me read past logical fallacies, see: ad hominem, but I soldiered on to see if you had a relevant point. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I’m assuming that by “compontent” you mean component and not competent.
" _IF_ the 'motherboard warping and causing the components to lift' is _actually_ a problem you can be damn well certain that Microsoft _KNOWS_ about it."
-Um... the very presence of the epoxy is evidence in of itself that there is a problem and that Microsoft knows about it. Additionally, just because Microsoft knows about the problem, doesn't mean they'll actually fix it. Microsoft has known about the issue of the market place content DRM preventing people with replaced/fixed consoles from accessing their purchased content offline since at least December '05 and they've still haven't fixed the issue. (See: http://forums.xbox.com/1159815/ShowPost.aspx ) So, given Microsoft's track record of coming up with a work-around and not actually fixing the problem, it makes sense that Microsoft would try the easy route before trying to engineer a solution the board-warping problem.
"Do you think they change their manufacturing setup, make those changes ARBITRARILY? That they just think 'hey, lets just drop some glue on there and hope it does something-or-other'?"
-If you look at the epoxy, it has been precisely placed. Therefore, Microsoft had to have thought this out. HOWEVER, when you consider that the epoxy fix has only showed up on the "Elite" model, then they could have "ARBITRARILY" added this to the assembly line since this motherboard is only present in the newer elite models. When you consider that the elites are being produced separately from the core and premium units, then Microsoft can make whatever changes they want and not have to worry about influencing the other two product offerings. Only time will tell if this fix will be trickled down to the other boxes.
"Inspite of what the irrational haters on this website think, Microsoft's console has no more or less failures than any comparable product. Microsoft is renouned for its hardware. Do you think they would deliver some kind of lemon then try and pretend like its "ok"? They have said they are getting 2-3% failure - about normal for the industry. "
-So sorry, but Microsoft already admitted to a higher than normal failure rate:
http://www.gamespot.com/news/6158147.html
"You two are exactly the kind of empty-headed know-nothings that make the Internets stupid."
-You know what they say about people who live in glass houses.
Logical fallacies and unreasoned arguments aside, given Microsoft's history with the 360 and its slow response time in resolving issues, I would say that logicbomb and darkjc have valid points.
Personally, I have had 2 Xbox 360's brick on me, and both have been replaced with refurbs. - ExaltedDragon, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I'm bumed out that they used the HDMI 1.2 instead of 1.3
And they should include the WIFI built in or at least make a black WiFi add on available.
Still, if MS makes more games BC then I may pick up the ELITE.
HDMI is really keeping me, though. I don't really care, but its just that MS is letting the world know that PS3 is the leader if AFTER the PS3 is released, they still use inferrior tech.
If there is a 1.4 standard, they should have included that to 1up sony.
http://digg.com/gaming_news/Strong_Month_for_360_Sales - hakujin, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1yeah, i find out it was 1.2 as well. bleeehhh... apparently black is worth the extra $$ to some... That's about the only redeemable quality. The extra HDD is just for more live crap, and the HDMI is redundant without a HDDVD add-on.
- rderveloy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1"The Xbox 360 definitely needs wifi built in. I don't understand how Microsoft expects to get more Xbox Live customers when there's basically a $100 cost barrier to buy the wifi dongle (in addition to the $50 for live). Seriously, few people have or want ethernet cables running across the living room"
On a technical note, if Microsoft wanted to include wifi in their box, they would need to completely redesign the 360's metal RF shielding and resubmit the console for FCC approval. This would be fairly costly, and would probably jack up the price of the elite even higher.
But, if you don't want to fork over $100 for wifi, you could use a wireless bridge.
Wireless bridges FTW!!! - jull1234, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1The real question is "is this a valid fix?" Will the rate of bricked consoles go down? Any opinion?
- hakujin, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Interesting because I always wondered why my xbox v1.6 has way more capacitors and such in it that look like they've exploded (white pasty epoxy I gather now) than my v1.0. Your exampled of a filling an entire mainboard sounds similar. Am I right?
- mediamaker, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3Where can I see what will really decide this purchase for me. Side by side images / video of a 360 running component vs. hdmi so I can compare brightness levels and the like? (Demoing Gears for bonus point)
- hakujin, on 10/12/2007, -3/+4Good point jackson98. I wasn't even considering PS2 games. Truthfully, the only game on Xbox 360 that looks really good to me is Gears of War. But let it be known, I'm not the person to pick one company over the other merely because of some fanboyish angst. I still think the modded Xbox is the best home theater appliance ever, with a lot of pretty decent games. That being said, I only have a Wii, Xbox, and a PC that runs C&C III Tiberium Wars pretty decent for now (which is good enough to tide me over). Overall, I just want a clear winner before I start purchasing, and it's leaning toward Sony's favor ATM. All that needs to happen now is for some xenophobic; extraordinarily creative and imaginative Japanese guy to create the must have title for the PS3 as with PS2 (e.g. Devil May Cry, Metal Gear, Gods of War, etc.) and there won't be anything left to argue.
- eMximeR, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1@bumblefoot
The only way this could be true is if your connection speed was higher than theirs to begin with. Wifi is slower than wired, period. - derricklorah, on 10/12/2007, -0/+180 dollars more for technology that should have come out with the ORIGINAL 360. The only people who are buying this, are the parents who don't know any better.. they just know little timmy wants a black xbox 360 to run on his 20" SDTV.. i'm all for revising consoles (ps2 slim, nintendo ds lite, etc.) but sony and nintendo did it right, MS just scratched where no one was itching.
- hakujin, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2What real value is in the HDMI without the HD-DVD add on, less crippled tvs that can't output 1080p on component. Puuuhh-leaseee. This thing is a gimmicky let down.
- ZeoLeech, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1@emximer
Yea, i'm sure that fancy plastic enclosure is where the other $80 went into. - eMximeR, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1If they changed the grey plastics parts to like... lime green or white, it might look better. The grey on the black controller looks bad, and the green ring of light doesnt look as good on the black box as it does the white one.
- hakujin, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Then how about MS includes the WiFi at no additional cost. $h1t, @ $500, it should come stock. The Wii costs half this and Nintendo has included WiFi... wtf?
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